The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*
The Last Dance III: A Dancer's Guide *New*
WSD only applies to the 1st hit. You get better mileage with multi-attack.
[+]
This was discussed awhile ago [Page 42] showcasing AF+3 over Multi-Hit Hands: [Still needs peer-review]
I’m sure that there are others who can answer this way better than me but I tried to do some rough calculations to see your proposal:
Pyrrhic Kleos is a 4 hit with fTP of 1.75
1.75x4=7 [Before multi-hits]
Add belt/neck:
1.95x4=7.8
Factoring Multihits:
BiS PK has [ 29DA 10 TA ]
100x0.1=10
10x2=20+100=120
100-10=90
90x0.29=26.1+120=146.1 attacks
1.461 AVG attacks of a 46.1% chance of getting a proc of multihit attack with 1.95 fTP
For the sake of making this easy I will add a constant of (1.95x46.1%) to the overall fTP(0.9)
Will also exclude offhand (too minuscule to even worry about it)...
Total fTP= 7.8+0.9=8.7 with BiS
Now let’s see if you increase TA by 4 using Adhemar Hands HQ
[29 DA 14TA]
100x0.14=14
14x2=28+100=128
100-14=86
86x0.29=24.9+128=152.9 attacks
1.529AVG attacks of a 52.9% chance of getting a proc of multihit attack with 1.95 fTP
For the sake of making this easy I will add a constant of (1.95x52.9%) to the overall fTP(1.03)
Total fTP= 7.8+1.03=8.8 with Adhemar Hands
8.8-8.7=0.1 increase in fTP
By swapping to Adhemar you lose 10% wsd from AF3 Hands in exchange for 0.1 in total fTP which is not recommended imo [I could be missing something here and a better explanation can be done by others]
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
SimonSes said: »
Why every set I see for Pyrrhic uses AF+3 gloves?
I’m sure that there are others who can answer this way better than me but I tried to do some rough calculations to see your proposal:
Pyrrhic Kleos is a 4 hit with fTP of 1.75
1.75x4=7 [Before multi-hits]
Add belt/neck:
1.95x4=7.8
Factoring Multihits:
BiS PK has [ 29DA 10 TA ]
100x0.1=10
10x2=20+100=120
100-10=90
90x0.29=26.1+120=146.1 attacks
1.461 AVG attacks of a 46.1% chance of getting a proc of multihit attack with 1.95 fTP
For the sake of making this easy I will add a constant of (1.95x46.1%) to the overall fTP(0.9)
Will also exclude offhand (too minuscule to even worry about it)...
Total fTP= 7.8+0.9=8.7 with BiS
Now let’s see if you increase TA by 4 using Adhemar Hands HQ
[29 DA 14TA]
100x0.14=14
14x2=28+100=128
100-14=86
86x0.29=24.9+128=152.9 attacks
1.529AVG attacks of a 52.9% chance of getting a proc of multihit attack with 1.95 fTP
For the sake of making this easy I will add a constant of (1.95x52.9%) to the overall fTP(1.03)
Total fTP= 7.8+1.03=8.8 with Adhemar Hands
8.8-8.7=0.1 increase in fTP
By swapping to Adhemar you lose 10% wsd from AF3 Hands in exchange for 0.1 in total fTP which is not recommended imo [I could be missing something here and a better explanation can be done by others]
Adhemar +1 hands are better than AF+3. It doesn't really require any calculation. Beside fTP you also have 6 more STR and 11 more DEX on Adhemar. The new competition will be those new hands from Lilith. They have almost the same str/dex, so it will be mostly 4%TA vs 4%PDL. New gloves will probably slightly win, but only if you can cap attack with them. Same for body. It has slightly worse STR/DEX than Horos+1, but it's 4%TA vs 6%PDL. Again new body will probably win, but also has no attack, so capping attack on something tougher, especially when you pair it with new gloves, will be very hard unless it will be a high buff/debuff situation with fully working geomancy.
Additional bonuses from using new body and gloves are big bonus to MEVA, - Damaga taken and store TP during WS. While none fo those directly affect WS damage, it might save you from damage or debuff and much higher TP return from WS might result in getting to 1000TP one round faster or getting higher TP overflow for Rudra.
Additional bonuses from using new body and gloves are big bonus to MEVA, - Damaga taken and store TP during WS. While none fo those directly affect WS damage, it might save you from damage or debuff and much higher TP return from WS might result in getting to 1000TP one round faster or getting higher TP overflow for Rudra.
[+]
I haven't tapped into the new gear yet, and the previous discussion assumed capped situations including fSTR, dDEX if I remember correctly. But I'm glad its put to rest now since there is new gear coming out with PDL in mind.
Relatively speaking, the new body will replace Ashera for Terpsichore main.
Relatively speaking, the new body will replace Ashera for Terpsichore main.
Leviathan.Katriina said: »
I haven't tapped into the new gear yet, and the previous discussion assumed capped situations including fSTR, dDEX if I remember correctly. But I'm glad its put to rest now since there is new gear coming out with PDL in mind.
Relatively speaking, the new body will replace Ashera for Terpsichore main.
Relatively speaking, the new body will replace Ashera for Terpsichore main.
Yeah I mentioned it in other thread. This new body and gloves are excellent for Terpsi (and for Mythic AM3 in general). Body is like fused Turms+1 and Ashera (well with 1 less store TP), but with even higher -DT and MEVA and with PDL as a bonus. Hands are also offensively competitive with Adhemar+1 for Terpsi. You trade 2-4% crit rate (assuming bonus with 1 or 2 more pieces of Adhemar+1) and 4%TA for 5 store TP. Under AM3 it will probably even out for offense, but again you are getting HUGE defensive benefits of massive MEVA, Evasion and -6%DT.
So overall for Terpsi TP phase it wont be huge offensive upgrade if any at all, but it will be a massive upgrade for the defensive part, while not losing on the offense at all.
By looking at the new gear for Terpsichore Dancers:
A master Dancer has PDL II trait, making pDIF 3.45, 4.45 for none Critical and Critical respectively.
Assuming capped fSTR dDEX and pDIF:
With Neck +2 only:
Melee Damage with Neck +2 only = (144+4)*3.795 =561.66
Crtical Damage with Neck +2 only =(144+4)*4.895=724.46
Rounds/WS=2.56
With Neck +2 and Hands/Body from Malignance:
Melee Damage= (3.45*(1+0.1+0.06+0.04)=3.45*1.2)*(144+4)=4.14*148=612.72
Critical Melee Damage= (4.45*(1+0.1+0.06+0.04)=4.45*1.2)*(144+4)=5.34*(144+4)=790.32
Rounds/WS=2.74
We can see that from a melee standpoint, there is an 8% increase in Melee Attacks (Critical and Normal) Damage in capped situations.
By looking at rounds/ws it might be better to use the new set in longer fights and keep the original one for short ones.
Attack in original set is 269 and by switching to Malignance you will be at 163 thats 106 drop in attack from gear, it needs to be compensated with food or songs.
Provided that how obvious the myriad defensive benefits from Malignance, there is enough incentive to switch hands/body like Simon mentioned in TP phase in capped situations and longer fights.
A master Dancer has PDL II trait, making pDIF 3.45, 4.45 for none Critical and Critical respectively.
Assuming capped fSTR dDEX and pDIF:
With Neck +2 only:
Melee Damage with Neck +2 only = (144+4)*3.795 =561.66
Crtical Damage with Neck +2 only =(144+4)*4.895=724.46
Rounds/WS=2.56
With Neck +2 and Hands/Body from Malignance:
Melee Damage= (3.45*(1+0.1+0.06+0.04)=3.45*1.2)*(144+4)=4.14*148=612.72
Critical Melee Damage= (4.45*(1+0.1+0.06+0.04)=4.45*1.2)*(144+4)=5.34*(144+4)=790.32
Rounds/WS=2.74
We can see that from a melee standpoint, there is an 8% increase in Melee Attacks (Critical and Normal) Damage in capped situations.
By looking at rounds/ws it might be better to use the new set in longer fights and keep the original one for short ones.
Attack in original set is 269 and by switching to Malignance you will be at 163 thats 106 drop in attack from gear, it needs to be compensated with food or songs.
Provided that how obvious the myriad defensive benefits from Malignance, there is enough incentive to switch hands/body like Simon mentioned in TP phase in capped situations and longer fights.
It's not only 106 drop in attack but you would also need to get more attack to reach new cap with more PDL. I personally dont think it will be possible to cap attack on anything serious with full or almost full Malignance. I will still use it a lot, because how good it is to resist all those shity debuffs :)
So is it just body and hands worth replacing? I was thinking the feet might be a good choice if not just outright better anyways for tp.
Or guess better stated which of the new pieces do you look at replacing first and then so on?
Or guess better stated which of the new pieces do you look at replacing first and then so on?
The intention was replacing items to give at least 10% more PDL without hindering the offensive aspect of the TP phase.
Dancers are amongst the highest jobs when it comes to accuracy, but not so much in attack. That drop in attack must be compensated with food and STR buffs to make the switch relevant from a DPS standpoint.
I personally use a mix of QA+3 and multi hits since I’m a Twashtar Main. But if I were to replace anything, it would be body and hands for the reasons mentioned above, and for that extra “debuffs resist” which is very sought after in endgame these days.
Dancers are amongst the highest jobs when it comes to accuracy, but not so much in attack. That drop in attack must be compensated with food and STR buffs to make the switch relevant from a DPS standpoint.
I personally use a mix of QA+3 and multi hits since I’m a Twashtar Main. But if I were to replace anything, it would be body and hands for the reasons mentioned above, and for that extra “debuffs resist” which is very sought after in endgame these days.
malakef said: »
So is it just body and hands worth replacing?
When I was writing my initial comment it was before update and we only did know about hands and body.
Knowing about whole set now.
- I would go 5/5 AM3 Terpsi whenever I would need hybrid set.
- Legs and Head is awesome upgrade for high accuracy set for Cento offhand.
- Some pieces might be an upgrade for Pyrrhic Kleos when you cna take advantage of PDL
I personally feel that taking advantage of PDL from that set for DNC will be very hard to estimate. I mean it will require full knowledge of event you do, buffs you get etc. to be 100% sure that you are caping pdif with extra PDL, otherwise you will lose DPS. That being said I will probably sacrifice some DPS very often for 4/5 or 5/5 Malignance, because it just way to awesome defensively.
malakef said: »
I was thinking the feet might be a good choice if not just outright better anyways for tp.
Relic +3 feet with 5/5 Closed position gives +22 store tp when facing enemy, so I don't see offensive improvement here when switching to Malignance, unless you need to attack form side or behind.
[+]
Returning from a few month hiatus! Getting around to doing some solo challenges I wanted to set up for myself.
Anyone have experience with omen boss solo runs? I know a few other jobs do them, but I was gonna attempt to do some solo on DNC (terp, rank10), and I mean solo-solo. Not 2 or 3 boxing. Possible?
Anyone have experience with omen boss solo runs? I know a few other jobs do them, but I was gonna attempt to do some solo on DNC (terp, rank10), and I mean solo-solo. Not 2 or 3 boxing. Possible?
Gin is easy.
Kin doable, but it will require good time remaining, because you will need to ping pong hate with tank trust for Target.
You wont be able to do enough damage to Kei.
Kyou might be possible to survive it, if you prepare TP for WS and FM for Reverse Flourish and you will disengage at 76%,51%,26%,11% HP, so all Trust will gether on you, then you will WS Kyou (without engaging, so trust wont move) to force Bravado, then you will follow up with Divine Waltz and engage again. It will be tricky below 25%, because he can decide to -ga/Meteor your party before Bravado, so you need to time it right or just finish it without few Trusts I guess.
Fu might also be doable, but it will be a longer fight probably, because you would need to drop number of trusts to like 1-2 (WHM and BRD?) and drop all your buffs before Ebullient Nullification, so it will onyl steal buffs from 1-2 trusts.
For all of them you will need a Hybrid TP set based on Turms and Malignance pieces.
Also if you get Gorger before Fu, Kin, or Kyou, you will probably time out.
Kin doable, but it will require good time remaining, because you will need to ping pong hate with tank trust for Target.
You wont be able to do enough damage to Kei.
Kyou might be possible to survive it, if you prepare TP for WS and FM for Reverse Flourish and you will disengage at 76%,51%,26%,11% HP, so all Trust will gether on you, then you will WS Kyou (without engaging, so trust wont move) to force Bravado, then you will follow up with Divine Waltz and engage again. It will be tricky below 25%, because he can decide to -ga/Meteor your party before Bravado, so you need to time it right or just finish it without few Trusts I guess.
Fu might also be doable, but it will be a longer fight probably, because you would need to drop number of trusts to like 1-2 (WHM and BRD?) and drop all your buffs before Ebullient Nullification, so it will onyl steal buffs from 1-2 trusts.
For all of them you will need a Hybrid TP set based on Turms and Malignance pieces.
Also if you get Gorger before Fu, Kin, or Kyou, you will probably time out.
[+]
Gin is actually the one I wanted to start with. Any specific strategies used for that? Trust config? Thanks for the insight!
Asura.Lunafreya said: »
Gin is actually the one I wanted to start with. Any specific strategies used for that? Trust config? Thanks for the insight!
Yoran/Ygnas, Ulmia, Qultada, Selh'teus and RDM (not sure which RDM has the best survivability for this). No strategy on DNC beside having high meva set from Turms/Malignance (dont WS during TP move because you probably has lustratio for PK and you will get hit hard). Just spam PK and avoid skillchains (normally you cna take advantage of skillchains for gin but DNC has no good option for light WS, so its better to spam PK with Terpsi).
[+]
Gin can be tricky, the last time I attempted to solo I had issues with Breakga as he was hitting all of my trusts from pretty far, but I'm going to retry soon now that I updated my sets.
Here are some other mobs that also can be challenging
Golden Kist (dnc/war): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_97-dmqfMBk&list=PLS2pplO8XbXVLqK_fkNXAs0HJZoKGFYhv&index=2
Souvereign Behemoth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvhWGmvYgaI&list=PLS2pplO8XbXWcliiuXkkKxt0sSBYVx7pK
Sarama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASx70506sOM&list=PLS2pplO8XbXWcliiuXkkKxt0sSBYVx7pK&index=2
Vir'ava: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDJIOPbYVmg&list=PLS2pplO8XbXVZ8lv29_kdLJKDixNNlxM_&index=3
Here are some other mobs that also can be challenging
Golden Kist (dnc/war): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_97-dmqfMBk&list=PLS2pplO8XbXVLqK_fkNXAs0HJZoKGFYhv&index=2
Souvereign Behemoth: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvhWGmvYgaI&list=PLS2pplO8XbXWcliiuXkkKxt0sSBYVx7pK
Sarama: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASx70506sOM&list=PLS2pplO8XbXWcliiuXkkKxt0sSBYVx7pK&index=2
Vir'ava: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDJIOPbYVmg&list=PLS2pplO8XbXVZ8lv29_kdLJKDixNNlxM_&index=3
[+]
SimonSes said: »
Adhemar +1 hands are better than AF+3. It doesn't really require any calculation. Beside fTP you also have 6 more STR and 11 more DEX on Adhemar. The new competition will be those new hands from Lilith. They have almost the same str/dex, so it will be mostly 4%TA vs 4%PDL. New gloves will probably slightly win, but only if you can cap attack with them. Same for body. It has slightly worse STR/DEX than Horos+1, but it's 4%TA vs 6%PDL. Again new body will probably win, but also has no attack, so capping attack on something tougher, especially when you pair it with new gloves, will be very hard unless it will be a high buff/debuff situation with fully working geomancy.
Additional bonuses from using new body and gloves are big bonus to MEVA, - Damaga taken and store TP during WS. While none fo those directly affect WS damage, it might save you from damage or debuff and much higher TP return from WS might result in getting to 1000TP one round faster or getting higher TP overflow for Rudra.
Additional bonuses from using new body and gloves are big bonus to MEVA, - Damaga taken and store TP during WS. While none fo those directly affect WS damage, it might save you from damage or debuff and much higher TP return from WS might result in getting to 1000TP one round faster or getting higher TP overflow for Rudra.
Having STP+7 on a 4-Hit is also relevant. I just don't see how the AF+3 hands could beat Adhemar+1 on stats alone. Not on PK anyways.
Relic hands do have 54 more attack than path B Adhemar +1. If that attack is needed to cap, then it could easily be BiS. This is becomes more relevant as you add PDL from gear. That said, they add almost nothing (10%wsd on first hit of PK is almost negligible) over other choices if the attack isn't needed.
You mixed relic hands with af hands. Relic has high attack, af has 10%WSD. Also even 48 attack (you forgot to add attavk from str) wont beat 6str, 11dex and 4% triple attack even for uncapped attack
Yes, the WSD is from AF1+3 hands, apologies. Even so, capping attack so that JSE +2 neck's PDL can be utilized will outperform 6str, 11dex and 4% triple attack, especially for mythic owners.
Asura.Gesetz said: »
Yes, the WSD is from AF1+3 hands, apologies. Even so, capping attack so that JSE +2 neck's PDL can be utilized will outperform 6str, 11dex and 4% triple attack, especially for mythic owners.
In sheet I'm getting 150-200 damage more on PK with Horos for uncapped attack, but at the same time I'm getting marginal DPS loss because of store TP + TA +4% having impact on more TP return on PK.
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Gesetz said: »
Yes, the WSD is from AF1+3 hands, apologies. Even so, capping attack so that JSE +2 neck's PDL can be utilized will outperform 6str, 11dex and 4% triple attack, especially for mythic owners.
In sheet I'm getting 150-200 damage more on PK with Horos for uncapped attack, but at the same time I'm getting marginal DPS loss because of store TP + TA +4% having impact on more TP return on PK.
It doesn't really matter much to me anyway. I don't even think I use them in my set, as I usually have capped attack in content I bring dnc to. I was only stating when Horos may outperform Adhemar for PK, and it appears that it does, but with a potential overall loss to DPS.
SimonSes said: »
For all of them you will need a Hybrid TP set based on Turms and Malignance pieces.
So for things like omen solo, what does the hybrid set look like now with Malignance? Are any of the turms pieces still worth it for r15 Terps? Also if I'm never going to make a Twash to offhand, is a capped Taming still the go to offhand for Terps main?
How does DRG sub fare now post update?
I've been subbing DRG in capped situations post update 80% of the time~
That 7% is worth it!
That 7% is worth it!
[+]
Not just that, but I was thinking that 30% enmity loss on super jump might allow us more Saber Dance up time. I haven't had the chance to go out and test yet.
This excites me, because I still haven’t unlocked DRG. Gives me something new to do!
Not playing right now, but I've been using /DRG for High Jump to great effect in Ambuscade groups for years. I can typically only use it 2 or 3 times before the end of a fight*, but that's usually enough to make sure I never pull ahead of the tank before the boss dies.
*I do my Climactic Rudra's > Rudra's and then jump, which of course favors the 7% WSD even more
*I do my Climactic Rudra's > Rudra's and then jump, which of course favors the 7% WSD even more
[+]
Also, I'd add that I think the lack of attention /DRG's gotten over the years can be filed under "do your job right and nobody will know you did anything at all": since it's rarely if ever clear how or when you're going to pull aggro when just doing DPS - it has so much to do with your tank, whom you have no control over - it's impossible to measure how effective it actually is.
But since it's fairly difficult to live long enough to lose aggro once you get it, the ability to even just delay the inevitable is huge.
But since it's fairly difficult to live long enough to lose aggro once you get it, the ability to even just delay the inevitable is huge.
[+]
Btw guide node says "Lust: Path D" on Evisceration dream tier set for the legs. Pretty sure you mean Path B.
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.