https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eAfJ8Nki4Rc
He did checkparam at 0:50, I see accuracy that's much higher than 1800 before counting debuffs.
Reisenjima T4s
Reisenjima T4s
If a melee can get to about 1500 accuracy from just traits, gear, and vorseals, they're reasonably close. Figure in you'd probably need:
- Idris Precision/Torpor (+200)
- Honor March/Double Madrigals (+133)
- Sublime Sushi +1 (+111 after DEX bonus)
So that puts ya just under 1950. The real issue becomes when you start relying on buffs or debuffs that you can't consistently maintain or full-time (ex: Hunter's Roll getting dispelled). You'd probably end up with some minimum setup consisting of 2 amazingly geared melees, 2 GEOs (Torpor, Precision, Vex, Frailty), BRD with Marsyas, maybe a COR and/or RDM, a tank, and healer or two.
- Idris Precision/Torpor (+200)
- Honor March/Double Madrigals (+133)
- Sublime Sushi +1 (+111 after DEX bonus)
So that puts ya just under 1950. The real issue becomes when you start relying on buffs or debuffs that you can't consistently maintain or full-time (ex: Hunter's Roll getting dispelled). You'd probably end up with some minimum setup consisting of 2 amazingly geared melees, 2 GEOs (Torpor, Precision, Vex, Frailty), BRD with Marsyas, maybe a COR and/or RDM, a tank, and healer or two.
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Distract III caps at 90 although with Saboteur and Leth. Gantherots +1 you can push this up to 201. Regardless, Saevel's math is still way off.
Saboteur doesn't affect the dMND bonus, so it's 179 max without Enfeebling effect+ from gear.
563 skill and capped dMND with Lethargy Sayon +1 and Sucello's Cape is -100 Evasion without Saboteur, which is I'd like to think any Master RDM should be able to reach easily.
Afania said: »
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Sylph.Braden said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Distract III caps at 90 although with Saboteur and Leth. Gantherots +1 you can push this up to 201. Regardless, Saevel's math is still way off.
Saboteur doesn't affect the dMND bonus, so it's 179 max without Enfeebling effect+ from gear.
563 skill and capped dMND with Lethargy Sayon +1 and Sucello's Cape is -100 Evasion without Saboteur, which is I'd like to think any Master RDM should be able to reach easily.
Ah, I see. I haven't paid that much attention to RDM, thanks for the info. Do you know of Saboteur affects the gear enhancements as well?
Gear enhancements come after dMND is added. Here's a quick formula from my phone:
Final = [( [BasePotency * Saboteur] + dMND ) * EnfeebleBonus]
BasePotency = [ (Skill - 190) * 4/21 ], caps at 610 skill (80 base)
Saboteur: 2 normally, 2.12 with Empy 119 gloves
dMND: 0 to 10, min at 0 dMND and max at 50
EnfeebleBonus can reach 1.30 if you throw in Hurkan booties but they're pretty weak outside the bonus, so 1.24 for most sets.
I had to figure this out on my own 'cause the RDM forums here only seem to care about building melee sets. Absolute max for Distract III should be 232, but I don't think you can reach the Enfeebling cap with three slots on enhancements so who knows.
Final = [( [BasePotency * Saboteur] + dMND ) * EnfeebleBonus]
BasePotency = [ (Skill - 190) * 4/21 ], caps at 610 skill (80 base)
Saboteur: 2 normally, 2.12 with Empy 119 gloves
dMND: 0 to 10, min at 0 dMND and max at 50
EnfeebleBonus can reach 1.30 if you throw in Hurkan booties but they're pretty weak outside the bonus, so 1.24 for most sets.
I had to figure this out on my own 'cause the RDM forums here only seem to care about building melee sets. Absolute max for Distract III should be 232, but I don't think you can reach the Enfeebling cap with three slots on enhancements so who knows.
Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
Afania said: »
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Distract not being up full time alone could change this up. In fact if you look at the video at the start he whiffs a ton. So before distract landed his hit rate was crap, then he was probably capped once Sabo-Distract III was on.
Wow that's really really complicated.
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Necro Bump Detected!
[73 days between previous and next post]
So we decided to go the ranger(puppet) route on Erinys tonight. Turns out he takes zero damage from absolutely everything while that aura is up.
A person in our LS said that there is a note about it on a JP blog that says something about taking 100k damage(from the aura I think) or something about a WS can take down the aura, we failed to test either of those things. Looks like the damage taken though only counts the damage before DT is applied.
Anyone know anything about this?
A person in our LS said that there is a note about it on a JP blog that says something about taking 100k damage(from the aura I think) or something about a WS can take down the aura, we failed to test either of those things. Looks like the damage taken though only counts the damage before DT is applied.
Anyone know anything about this?
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Kind of a necrobump, but I was able to observe Larceny being used on Teles yesterday. It does remove the SP and the aura. I think if any groups plan on doing Teles melee (at this point it seems to be the best strategy), then I would highly recommend at least one THF, but probably more. Being able to instantly remove Invincible will shorten the fight and seems essential.
I larceny'd its soul voice but it still charmed :( I'm glad it works for invincible.
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Well, it removed the aura (Manafont). I guess it must be different for Soul Voice since that TP move is not a song. You might require the red proc in that case.
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Kind of a necrobump, but I was able to observe Larceny being used on Teles yesterday. It does remove the SP and the aura. I think if any groups plan on doing Teles melee (at this point it seems to be the best strategy), then I would highly recommend at least one THF, but probably more. Being able to instantly remove Invincible will shorten the fight and seems essential.
My time has come.
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Larceny on Kouryu Invincible and various WoC 1 hours is helpful too. I'm curious if you were fast enough and stole WoC Invincible post-bracelets if it would prevent the following Benediction.
Odin.Llewelyn said: »
Larceny on Kouryu Invincible and various WoC 1 hours is helpful too. I'm curious if you were fast enough and stole WoC Invincible post-bracelets if it would prevent the following Benediction.
How viable are other elements aside from thunder on Schah's adds? Kill speed would improve monumentally with a distortion > leaden rather than simply fragmentation on its own.
Fire does well. Haven't actually tried any elements other than those 2. We use Fire on Firesday and Earthsday and Thunder every other day. At least with Fire, though, you can still 3-step with Stone > Fire > Thunder. Rougher on the strategems, but through Super Revitalizers and Tabula Rasas, you should be able to manage. 3-stepping SCs shouldn't be necessary with good BLMs, though. At least in our group, adds tend to die in 1 volley as long as Gajas and Rathas are being hit with Rayke or Gambit.
Definitely a good idea for some of the beefier adds, thanks. I do wonder how well ice or water would do on him. I'm basically just looking for any way to make DP more influential in the fight outside of helping with Schah himself.
I'll toss in the idea of using SMN to extend the skillchain, as they can extend Fragmentation to Light (Flaming Crush) and Fusion to Light (Volt Strike or Predator Claws) without needing TP or anything.
Similar for Dark. Distortion to Dark (Mountain Buster or Eclipse Bite) or Gravitation to Dark (Rush or Spinning Dive).
Similar for Dark. Distortion to Dark (Mountain Buster or Eclipse Bite) or Gravitation to Dark (Rush or Spinning Dive).
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Asura.Pergatory said: »
I'll toss in the idea of using SMN to extend the skillchain, as they can extend Fragmentation to Light (Flaming Crush) and Fusion to Light (Volt Strike or Predator Claws) without needing TP or anything.
Similar for Dark. Distortion to Dark (Mountain Buster or Eclipse Bite) or Gravitation to Dark (Rush or Spinning Dive).
Similar for Dark. Distortion to Dark (Mountain Buster or Eclipse Bite) or Gravitation to Dark (Rush or Spinning Dive).
You can close Crush for Radiance in a multi-step skillchain also. It's a thing of pure magic and beauty.
:)
I've also found SMN to be very useful for Schah's adds. Merit BPs high base damage and ability to conduit up to two of the heavier adds makes for a pretty smooth experience imo. During Schah's phase, you can keep blm haste II, and dream shroud (up to 13 mab). Then magic burst impact or night terror where people would usually comet. You can also keep conflag strikes INT down on which stacks with impact, and put shiva's or leviathan's favor up. In my opinion it has made the fights a lot easier.
For Teles, one SMN rotating Earthen Armor, Haste II and Dreamshroud over multiple parties also prevents wipes to the back line during hate resets and helps speed things up. During the last 5-8% too, a SMN can conduit night terror even during the mute aura, making it a lot easier to finish Teles off which is the most difficult phase of the fight. During mute aura as well, SMN can do night terror's, and pavor nocturnus to dispel. You can also spam Atamos for guaranteed dispels and apogee pavor to get three guaranteed dispels in a row. Imo SMN can aid this fight a lot as well.
For Vini and Zerde, a SMN conduiting meteor strike can help speed up the fights a lot, though I'm usually on stun duty for those so rather than personal experience I'm taking this from testimony of other SMN. I've also heard of SMN being considered very useful for the sandworm. Since most this thread doesn't mention this (though the blue gartr one does mention several of these things), I figured I'd offer this info up here as well.
For Teles, one SMN rotating Earthen Armor, Haste II and Dreamshroud over multiple parties also prevents wipes to the back line during hate resets and helps speed things up. During the last 5-8% too, a SMN can conduit night terror even during the mute aura, making it a lot easier to finish Teles off which is the most difficult phase of the fight. During mute aura as well, SMN can do night terror's, and pavor nocturnus to dispel. You can also spam Atamos for guaranteed dispels and apogee pavor to get three guaranteed dispels in a row. Imo SMN can aid this fight a lot as well.
For Vini and Zerde, a SMN conduiting meteor strike can help speed up the fights a lot, though I'm usually on stun duty for those so rather than personal experience I'm taking this from testimony of other SMN. I've also heard of SMN being considered very useful for the sandworm. Since most this thread doesn't mention this (though the blue gartr one does mention several of these things), I figured I'd offer this info up here as well.
Lots of good info there. The only thing we wouldn't mess around with regarding Teles is the last 10% when she spams one hours. We generally do a fully buffed burst sequence to one-shot her in order to avoid all that nonsense.
Verda said: »
For Vini and Zerde, a SMN conduiting meteor strike can help speed up the fights a lot
I popped Astral Flow & Apogee right away and double-MB'd the first skillchain with Conflag Strike followed by Meteor Strike, then went straight into Conduit for Meteor Strike spam. He snuck a Just Desserts through again so Ifrit and I both got stunned briefly in the middle of Conduit, but I still killed it before Conduit wore off. Literally a ~40 second fight with Ifrit doing about 70% of the damage.
I've done SMN on sandworm too, but mainly just on Mewing duty to wipe its TP before wind & dark skillchains so the BLMs don't heal it. I've heard it can do great physical damage in a melee burn sandworm setup as well, but I'm always stuck on RUN for those because "there's no way your SMN beats my THF". (Which is the same thing BLMs said about my SMN before they let me try it on Zerde.)
Asura.Pergatory said: »
Verda said: »
For Vini and Zerde, a SMN conduiting meteor strike can help speed up the fights a lot
I popped Astral Flow & Apogee right away and double-MB'd the first skillchain with Conflag Strike followed by Meteor Strike, then went straight into Conduit for Meteor Strike spam. He snuck a Just Desserts through again so Ifrit and I both got stunned briefly in the middle of Conduit, but I still killed it before Conduit wore off. Literally a ~40 second fight with Ifrit doing about 70% of the damage.
I've done SMN on sandworm too, but mainly just on Mewing duty to wipe its TP before wind & dark skillchains so the BLMs don't heal it. I've heard it can do great physical damage in a melee burn sandworm setup as well, but I'm always stuck on RUN for those because "there's no way your SMN beats my THF". (Which is the same thing BLMs said about my SMN before they let me try it on Zerde.)
For Zerde i've popped conduit immediately after white !! proc. it takes my meteor strike damage from 30k unbursted to 60k unbursted and capped when bursted. I parsed 50% in a party of twelve, doing just over 1m damage. In a run where we (for some dumb reason) swapped to thunder after proccing white i still parsed 25% with unbursted meteor strike damage, <1% shy of the head blm.
For Oncy SMN can really really push the first 50% with ease due to af/ac. in BST/SMN burn focusing on physical i still parsed 50% of the mob's health against 3 other bsts largely due to conduit. Kill time was in the range of 15 minutes with most of that sub 50% and waiting on mode change. I had major resist issues trying magic during that phase after 50% though with a 900 geo swapping bubbles, it was just easier to wait out gimmick shift.
Asura.Frod said: »
I had major resist issues trying magic during that phase after 50% though with a 900 geo swapping bubbles, it was just easier to wait out gimmick shift.
Most of the time, by the time we got bubbles situated, half the window was gone and then once he changed back to his original mode, now it's not just the SMN waiting for bubbles, but the whole group that's waiting. The key is being able to quickly resume damage once he gets into your preferred mode because it might only last 1 cast.
Also I haven't seen this mentioned but as good of an idea as it seems like, don't use Silence or Addle. Silence just means you won't see his window change (it still changes), and Addle in our experience shifts his casting so it's out of sync with his mode changes. So he'd shift modes between spells instead of at the time he begins casting one.
For the sandworm I know papesse will use night terror and malaise only for the magic phase if you're going physical route, seems he has very good success with it I doubt any other pact except perhaps netherblast would do much damage though and netherblast does less than night terror so (as I recall a post he made in another thread, they used blue savage blade spam and would do malaise night terror during magic phase). Also, really glad you're all posting on your smn experiences too :)
It may be we just don't have any DP cor so don't use that, but we tend to do kaustra and noctohelix II when it gets in the 16% range, then do as many chains as fast along with conduit. It's one of our highest win rate nms, so seems to work for us, just killing the last 10% would be objectively easier though but if we space more than 3 death in a burst it seems to do more harm than good to dps.
Asura.Avallon said: »
Lots of good info there. The only thing we wouldn't mess around with regarding Teles is the last 10% when she spams one hours. We generally do a fully buffed burst sequence to one-shot her in order to avoid all that nonsense.
For anyone curious in trying melee strats, they are the definitive way of doing Kirin/Teles/WoC.
I believe 1150 base acc before food/vorseals/buffs is enough to cap accuracy on WoC and Kirin (Bolster Torp/Precision, SV Honor/Mad/Mad) and you need a little bit more for Teles.
For WoC I like to use:
BLU BLU BLU BLU GEO WHM
PLD GEO GEO RDM
RDM can ES sabo Distract III during bracelets and help baby sit the PLD, as can the GEOs in that PT. Buffs are Bolster Precision/Attunement (melee pt), and Bolster Torp/Frail/Vex/Wilt. I think he does maybe 400 dmg total per person in the course of the fight. We also use 2 outside CORs for Sam/Rogue/Fight/Miser, and an outside BRD for Honor March/V March/Mad/Mad/Scherzo.
We buff in front of the Temporary Item NPC so our CORs can spam buy Super Revitalizers to guarantee 11s on all rolls via Snake Eye spam.
We've managed to kill WoC in 2min 45sec via this method without losing yet, the increase in kill speed really reduces the variability in winning since it has a smaller chance of using Benediction/Charm. You can also replace a BLU for a THF to Larceny PD or Invincible if it uses it.
We use the same strategy for Kirin/Kouryu, except replace a BLU with a RUN for Odyllic Subterfuge/One For All just to completely cripple it. A THF might also be handy if it gets off PD/Invinc. I think we've killed it in just over 1 minute flat via this method.
Again, same strategy for Teles except we used 3-4x THF and made the RDM change to SCH for Embrava/Regen 5 on both pts in case of dia aura. We did a Larceny rotation and took off Silence/Dia aura this way. Our fastest kill speed is just over 2 minutes, it got 2 SPs total off because it was dying too fast and would get locked in its SPs for the full minute. WHM should also use Baraero to reduce Clarasch Call damage.
I should mention that if you don't have Idris accuracy buffs you may want to consider using more accuracy or replacing Fighter's Roll for Hunter's Roll. We also use Allies' Roll in place of Rogue's Roll for Teles.
I believe 1150 base acc before food/vorseals/buffs is enough to cap accuracy on WoC and Kirin (Bolster Torp/Precision, SV Honor/Mad/Mad) and you need a little bit more for Teles.
For WoC I like to use:
BLU BLU BLU BLU GEO WHM
PLD GEO GEO RDM
RDM can ES sabo Distract III during bracelets and help baby sit the PLD, as can the GEOs in that PT. Buffs are Bolster Precision/Attunement (melee pt), and Bolster Torp/Frail/Vex/Wilt. I think he does maybe 400 dmg total per person in the course of the fight. We also use 2 outside CORs for Sam/Rogue/Fight/Miser, and an outside BRD for Honor March/V March/Mad/Mad/Scherzo.
We buff in front of the Temporary Item NPC so our CORs can spam buy Super Revitalizers to guarantee 11s on all rolls via Snake Eye spam.
We've managed to kill WoC in 2min 45sec via this method without losing yet, the increase in kill speed really reduces the variability in winning since it has a smaller chance of using Benediction/Charm. You can also replace a BLU for a THF to Larceny PD or Invincible if it uses it.
We use the same strategy for Kirin/Kouryu, except replace a BLU with a RUN for Odyllic Subterfuge/One For All just to completely cripple it. A THF might also be handy if it gets off PD/Invinc. I think we've killed it in just over 1 minute flat via this method.
Again, same strategy for Teles except we used 3-4x THF and made the RDM change to SCH for Embrava/Regen 5 on both pts in case of dia aura. We did a Larceny rotation and took off Silence/Dia aura this way. Our fastest kill speed is just over 2 minutes, it got 2 SPs total off because it was dying too fast and would get locked in its SPs for the full minute. WHM should also use Baraero to reduce Clarasch Call damage.
I should mention that if you don't have Idris accuracy buffs you may want to consider using more accuracy or replacing Fighter's Roll for Hunter's Roll. We also use Allies' Roll in place of Rogue's Roll for Teles.
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I'd say the definitive method for kirin is whatever jobs you're already on or can easily assemble, I've done it in ~90 seconds pop to dead with mages as well. Only take 3 or 4 SCs, depending on how far below 50% he is when he gets a chance to transform.
Would agree melee are much better than mages for WoC and Teles.
Would agree melee are much better than mages for WoC and Teles.
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