~First And Final Line Of Defense V2.0~

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~First and Final Line of Defense v2.0~
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 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-03-15 08:42:45  
Asura.Bayonette said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
The price on that Sash is about to go uuuuuup...

It’s pretty easy to solo spam legion on THF. Every target can drop the sash, too! I used to idle in one on my WHM and RUN, seemed too weak, guess ill grab another.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Hall_of_Im

You're gravely underestimate the laziness of the playerbase. I just checked 5 minutes ago and sash already went from 50k to 100k over the weekend. I expect it to go higher.
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2021-03-15 08:46:29  
So I'm either overthinking this too much or not enough. But this whole 1/4 resist and 1/8 resist rate and needing elemental resistance to reach the 1/8 cap, how is this gonna work for Meteor?
Does this mean Meteor is subject to the 1/4 cap?

And how does Mijin Gakur work? Wave 3 Mijin supposed to do 4k damage, but images shown it can deal 500, but while being non-elemental so if Mijin works for 1/8 cap while being non-elemental, Meteor is stil unknown.

As I said, either over thinking or not thinking enough, but confused about them.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-15 08:49:10  
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
Asura.Bayonette said: »
Ruaumoko said: »
The price on that Sash is about to go uuuuuup...

It’s pretty easy to solo spam legion on THF. Every target can drop the sash, too! I used to idle in one on my WHM and RUN, seemed too weak, guess ill grab another.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Hall_of_Im

You gravely overestimate the laziness of the playerbase. I just checked 5 minutes ago and sash already went from 50k to 100k over the weekend. I expect it to go higher.
What server? This site lists Sylph as having it be 100k for quite a while (minus an 800k sale that was before Martel's post), while Asura has has it at 600k for as far back as the history goes.
 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-03-15 08:56:53  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
So I'm either overthinking this too much or not enough. But this whole 1/4 resist and 1/8 resist rate and needing elemental resistance to reach the 1/8 cap, how is this gonna work for Meteor?
Does this mean Meteor is subject to the 1/4 cap?

And how does Mijin Gakur work? Wave 3 Mijin supposed to do 4k damage, but images shown it can deal 500, but while being non-elemental so if Mijin works for 1/8 cap while being non-elemental, Meteor is stil unknown.

As I said, either over thinking or not thinking enough, but confused about them.
Meteor and Mijin Gakure are still Non-Elemental Damage and not subject to elemental resist.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-03-15 10:27:04  
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
Asura.Shiraj said: »
So I'm either overthinking this too much or not enough. But this whole 1/4 resist and 1/8 resist rate and needing elemental resistance to reach the 1/8 cap, how is this gonna work for Meteor?
Does this mean Meteor is subject to the 1/4 cap?

And how does Mijin Gakur work? Wave 3 Mijin supposed to do 4k damage, but images shown it can deal 500, but while being non-elemental so if Mijin works for 1/8 cap while being non-elemental, Meteor is stil unknown.

As I said, either over thinking or not thinking enough, but confused about them.
Meteor and Mijin Gakure are still Non-Elemental Damage and not subject to elemental resist.
It's odd to think of it like this, but you could view the attacks being non-elemental as an advantage in this case. Since there's no elemental resistance requirement to full resist them you just need lots of meva.


Buuut, it also means you still can't benefit from bar-spells and carols, etc. So they still kinda suck.

EDIT: Oh! ***... That's a great test method! You should be able to determine the element of an attack by whether or not you can 1/8 resist it with that ele resist. And if you can resist without any elemental resist, then it's Non-Elemental!

I mean, there was already other test methods, But I like this one cause it should work even at waaay overcapped meva. And it doesn't have the timing/recast issues that liement does
 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-03-15 10:57:10  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Sylph.Brahmsz said: »
Asura.Shiraj said: »
So I'm either overthinking this too much or not enough. But this whole 1/4 resist and 1/8 resist rate and needing elemental resistance to reach the 1/8 cap, how is this gonna work for Meteor?
Does this mean Meteor is subject to the 1/4 cap?

And how does Mijin Gakur work? Wave 3 Mijin supposed to do 4k damage, but images shown it can deal 500, but while being non-elemental so if Mijin works for 1/8 cap while being non-elemental, Meteor is stil unknown.

As I said, either over thinking or not thinking enough, but confused about them.
Meteor and Mijin Gakure are still Non-Elemental Damage and not subject to elemental resist.
It's odd to think of it like this, but you could view the attacks being non-elemental as an advantage in this case. Since there's no elemental resistance requirement to full resist them you just need lots of meva.


Buuut, it also means you still can't benefit from bar-spells and carols, etc. So they still kinda suck.

EDIT: Oh! ***... That's a great test method! You should be able to determine the element of an attack by whether or not you can 1/8 resist it with that ele resist. And if you can resist without any elemental resist, then it's Non-Elemental!

I mean, there was already other test methods, But I like this one cause it should work even at waaay overcapped meva. And it doesn't have the timing/recast issues that liement does

King Behemoth or KS99 I'm assuming?
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2021-03-15 11:56:39  
Going back to MEVA/Sash test, Warder charm +1 should do the same thing outside of light/dark
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-15 12:25:47  
The best way to test the enfeeble resist rates is probably to bounce spells off of Greater Colibris (or Broxa if their MACC is too low even when naked), or find a mob with Shock Spikes.
 Sylph.Brahmsz
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By Sylph.Brahmsz 2021-03-15 12:41:53  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
It's odd to think of it like this, but you could view the attacks being non-elemental as an advantage in this case. Since there's no elemental resistance requirement to full resist them you just need lots of MEva.

Buuut, it also means you still can't benefit from bar-spells and carols, etc. So they still kinda suck.

To be honest, at least in the case of Mijin, I've personally moved away from the notion of referring to Mijin Gakure as 'Non-Elemental" and think of it more as "Non-Categorized" Damage.

Coding a Spell to be a Neutral Element is "probably" a simple task for them. But given the wonkiness and wackiness of a few examples of moves that are "Non-Elemental" (Mijin Gakure, Dancing Fullers, Unfaltering Bravado, and No Quarter) there's definitely something different going on...
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-15 12:48:28  
Most Mijins are reduced by BDT, though, so they're not uncategorized. Mijin can also be resisted, unlike those other examples.
 Asura.Bootus
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By Asura.Bootus 2021-03-15 13:15:54  
Ruaumoko said: »


Turns out you can have a lot of fun with Divine Emblem, especially now it's reuse timer has been lowered. First burst was without Geomancer or any MDEF Down debuff to speak of, the second and third had Malaise on the target. Divine Emblem adds a lotttt of damage to Holy II and would also increase the Enmity generated.

ItemSet 378651

Hands/Feet are Nyame and the set could use some upgrades, it was just something I was messing about with while putting PLD Guide Pt.2 together. It's practicality is really questionable unless there was a co-ordinated skillchain with proper support, still a very fun thing to do.

I'm assuming this was all Path C? Also, I know this is unrelated but I asked in the RDM forum and didn't get a clear answer there, but I know you play RDM so it can't hurt to ask... what do you think is the best path to go for a RDM main?
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2021-03-15 13:38:40  
Asura.Geriond said: »
Most Mijins are reduced by BDT, though, so they're not uncategorized. Mijin can also be resisted, unlike those other examples.
Regular Mijin is Magic Damage. Aegis and shell work on it.

You might be conflating it with Self-destruct? That's breath damage.
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 16:16:13  
So, I have an interesting post to make that may or may not make me look stupid, but that's the point. Somebody has to be the one to look stupid or else there would never be any answers.

I'm doing some tests on the magic damage reduction that Aegis gives and comparing it to what Carrier's Sash gives. By the way, I just confirmed that Carrier's Sash is straight up an extra -50% magic damage taken.

I thought to myself, "wow, this sash is like a second Aegis." and went to test out Aegis's damage reduction with no sash equipped versus no shield with Carrier's Sash Equipped. Got some pretty weird results.

Aegis says it is Magic Damage Taken II -50%. My test showed it actually being -75%. Stone V with Aegis equipped and no Sash gave me 22 damage. Stone V without Aegis equipped and no Sash gave me 88 damage. Stone V with Aegis equipped and Sash equipped gave me 11 damage.

Stone V with Sash equipped and no shield gave me 44 damage. Stone V with Sash and Priwen equipped also gave me 44 damage, although it did dip a little lower to 39 sometimes.

If Aegis was actually -50%, wouldn't it also be giving me 44 damage? The correct total would end up being 22 damage with Aegis and Sash both equipped, but it's 11. Is Aegis actually -75%? Or am I missing something about how it's calculated?

Either way, I set out to test if Carrier's Sash is indeed -50% magic damage taken and it actually is.
 Bahamut.Harribel
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By Bahamut.Harribel 2021-03-15 16:34:52  
I say this with about as much uncertainty; but wouldn't the respective INT of the target and the caster also matter for the damage calculation?

Or, does that not matter because we already know base damage with only those two variables changing.
I guess in that case the only test would be to see if that had an impact if you really spread out the int difference.
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 16:38:28  
Bahamut.Harribel said: »
I say this with about as much uncertainty; but wouldn't the respective INT of the target and the caster also matter for the damage calculation?

Or, does that not matter because we already know base damage with only those two variables changing.
I guess in that case the only test would be to see if that had an impact if you really spread out the int difference.

I'll give this a test in a minute.

For shits and giggles, I tested Carrier's Sash on Hidhaegg's Dragon Breath to see if it'd reduce Breath damage taken, even though I know it shouldn't and guess what, it didn't. 3,768 damage with or without the Sash equipped. Yipee.
 Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2021-03-15 16:50:51  
Aricomfy said: »
Aegis says it is Magic Damage Taken II -50%. My test showed it actually being -75%. Stone V with Aegis equipped and no Sash gave me 22 damage. Stone V without Aegis equipped and no Sash gave me 88 damage. Stone V with Aegis equipped and Sash equipped gave me 11 damage.

Stone V with Sash equipped and no shield gave me 44 damage. Stone V with Sash and Priwen equipped also gave me 44 damage, although it did dip a little lower to 39 sometimes.

If Aegis was actually -50%, wouldn't it also be giving me 44 damage? The correct total would end up being 22 damage with Aegis and Sash both equipped, but it's 11. Is Aegis actually -75%? Or am I missing something about how it's calculated?

My understanding is that MDT II stacks with MDT I with a combined 87.5% cap which would match those results where you end up taking 1/4 as much when using aegis. 12.5% = 50%/4
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By Vishwambhari 2021-03-15 16:53:54  
Aricomfy said: »
So, I have an interesting post to make that may or may not make me look stupid, but that's the point. Somebody has to be the one to look stupid or else there would never be any answers.

I'm doing some tests on the magic damage reduction that Aegis gives and comparing it to what Carrier's Sash gives. By the way, I just confirmed that Carrier's Sash is straight up an extra -50% magic damage taken.

I thought to myself, "wow, this sash is like a second Aegis." and went to test out Aegis's damage reduction with no sash equipped versus no shield with Carrier's Sash Equipped. Got some pretty weird results.

Aegis says it is Magic Damage Taken II -50%. My test showed it actually being -75%. Stone V with Aegis equipped and no Sash gave me 22 damage. Stone V without Aegis equipped and no Sash gave me 88 damage. Stone V with Aegis equipped and Sash equipped gave me 11 damage.

Stone V with Sash equipped and no shield gave me 44 damage. Stone V with Sash and Priwen equipped also gave me 44 damage, although it did dip a little lower to 39 sometimes.

If Aegis was actually -50%, wouldn't it also be giving me 44 damage? The correct total would end up being 22 damage with Aegis and Sash both equipped, but it's 11. Is Aegis actually -75%? Or am I missing something about how it's calculated?

Either way, I set out to test if Carrier's Sash is indeed -50% magic damage taken and it actually is.
Most reasonable explanation is you already had 50 -mdt (you didn’t specify you were only wearing aegis), enemy’s macc was already floored and it would have hit you for 88, reduced to 44 by your -mdt. 88*0.125 (87,5 mdt hard cap, provided by your equipment + aegis) is exactly 11 dmg.
 Asura.Gotenn
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By Asura.Gotenn 2021-03-15 17:00:04  
what were you wearing and did you have shell on?,
Aegis can only take you to -87.5% Magic Damage Taken
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-15 17:00:53  
Aricomfy said: »
Bahamut.Harribel said: »
I say this with about as much uncertainty; but wouldn't the respective INT of the target and the caster also matter for the damage calculation?

Or, does that not matter because we already know base damage with only those two variables changing.
I guess in that case the only test would be to see if that had an impact if you really spread out the int difference.

I'll give this a test in a minute.

For shits and giggles, I tested Carrier's Sash on Hidhaegg's Dragon Breath to see if it'd reduce Breath damage taken, even though I know it shouldn't and guess what, it didn't. 3,768 damage with or without the Sash equipped. Yipee.
Why shouldn't it? Breaths have elements, and are resistable.

You also might just not have enough magic evasion to resist Hidhaegg's breath. The idea is that the elemental resistance on the belt unlocks the last resist tier, not that it gives you an additional resist by itself.
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-15 17:35:47  
Anyway, just tested, and this mechanic does work on Breaths.

Constant stats other than Sash, with maxed out MEVA against Ildebrann's Fiery Breath:

Without Sash: 397, 382
With Sash: 192, 186

The second uses were at slightly lower HP.
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 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-15 18:11:26  
I just reflected some Stuns off of a Colibri, in 5/5 Malignance.

Neutral resistance: 5/5 resists
-30 Lightning resistance: 5/5 landed for 2 seconds
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 18:36:17  
I've got some uh oh info.

Tested Carrier's and Asklepian on Sarama. Had Shell V on, nothing else. Used set below. Tested with Aegis and Priwen.

ItemSet 378720

Cape is HP+60, Eva+20/M.Eva+45, Enmity +10.

Carrier's Sash had zero impact on magic damage reduction. With Aegis, I was taking 397 damage from Fire VI with and without Carrier's Sash.

Carrier's Sash also had zero impact on magic damage reduction with Priwen. Was taking 1,591 damage from Fire VI with and without Carrier's Sash.

Asklepian Belt had a slight impact on magic damage reduction with both Aegis and Priwen. With Aegis, I was taking 389 damage from Fire VI while with Priwen I was taking 1,557 damage.

Starting to think tougher enemies put Carrier's Sash in the back seat while Asklepian Belt makes a come back in higher level content. This speaks for magic damage reduction but not for Enfeeble resistance. Still unknown which waist is better in higher level content for that.
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 18:56:36  
Asura.Geriond said: »
You also might just not have enough magic evasion to resist Hidhaegg's breath.

Yeah now that I'm reading this and after my test with Sarama, I think you're right. The only question now is how do we GET enough Magic Evasion to make use of the Sash?
 Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2021-03-15 18:56:57  
Aricomfy said: »
I've got some uh oh info.

Tested Carrier's and Asklepian on Sarama. Had Shell V on, nothing else. Used set below. Tested with Aegis and Priwen.

ItemSet 378720

Cape is HP+60, Eva+20/M.Eva+45, Enmity +10.

Carrier's Sash had zero impact on magic damage reduction. With Aegis, I was taking 397 damage from Fire VI with and without Carrier's Sash.

Carrier's Sash also had zero impact on magic damage reduction with Priwen. Was taking 1,591 damage from Fire VI with and without Carrier's Sash.

Asklepian Belt had a slight impact on magic damage reduction with both Aegis and Priwen. With Aegis, I was taking 389 damage from Fire VI while with Priwen I was taking 1,557 damage.

Starting to think tougher enemies put Carrier's Sash in the back seat while Asklepian Belt makes a come back in higher level content. This speaks for magic damage reduction but not for Enfeeble resistance. Still unknown which waist is better in higher level content for that.

Asklepian Belt has 3 MDB on it which would likely account for the slight decrease in damage taken.

probably need a certain amount of mag eva/elemental resist above the mob's mag acc to unlock the higher resist tier in addition to needing some positive amount of elemental resist.
[+]
 Sylph.Reain
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By Sylph.Reain 2021-03-15 19:45:44  
135 and 145 unity mobs actually seem to have stupendous magic accuracy. I think it's just a quirk of how they were implemented (99 with enhanced stats). I would suspect you aren't capping magic evasion against them if you aren't using buffs.
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 19:51:36  
Sylph.Reain said: »
135 and 145 unity mobs actually seem to have stupendous magic accuracy. I think it's just a quirk of how they were implemented (99 with enhanced stats). I would suspect you aren't capping magic evasion against them if you aren't using buffs.

I just went back and redid the test on Sarama with Indi-Attunement and Geo-Vex. +5 Geomancy, 900+ skill. Used Miso Ramen +1. Fire VI went from 397 to 220. Still not enough. I don't see how it's realistically possible to get enough M.Eva in a party setting. All buffs will generally be focused around killing the mob quicker. Unless UNM foes have higher M.Acc than every other type of content or something, I don't see how it'll be feasible getting enough M.Eva essentially on our own to make use of the Sash.

I mean, in a party setting, you'll have Barspells most likely, but for only one element and it kind of defeats the purpose of the Sash in the first place in my opinion.
 Sylph.Chocobro
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By Sylph.Chocobro 2021-03-15 20:06:39  
Someone test the reverse and see if negative resistance causes an increase in damage/status duration.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-03-15 20:18:29  
Sylph.Chocobro said: »
Someone test the reverse and see if negative resistance causes an increase in damage/status duration.
...there's been several tests of that already posted.
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By Aricomfy 2021-03-15 23:30:05  
I'm able to get Carrier's Sash to work in full effect on Belphegor. Shell V, Miso Ramen +1 and Indi-Attunement is all it took to start seeing it working. Indi-Vex and Geo-Attunement is when it really started working very reliably. No JA's used on GEO. Spells were down to 11 damage again just like my previous test. Level 129 enemy and not 135, but at least it works. Addle II and Pining Nocturne might also work as a substitute for Attunement/Vex to free up a Geo bubble. Anything higher level than 129 though, you'd probably be better off just using Asklepian unless someone has another idea on how to boost M.Eva or reduce M.Acc.

Need to keep in mind, this was with the help of +20 M.Eva in Vorseals as well.
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By SimonSes 2021-03-16 02:40:48  
Are you wearing full sakpata?
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