Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

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2010-06-21
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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
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 Sylph.Snk
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By Sylph.Snk 2020-02-13 14:45:53  
SimonSes said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
That would have made entirely too much sense. Many people did suggest that as a change almost immediately after. Given the fact that they made the change with the purpose of "removing the need for ready equipment", it would have just been an easy fix. Just SE being SE

That's true, but the fix was mainly to fix not Ready equipment, but Ready weapon. Switching weapon was totally against their logic that BST should fight with it's pet. It destroy your aftermaths and reset TP, so it was VERY bad. Legs swap is much less a problem and they even probably forgot that Dessulator's with Ready exist, so they wanted to make it even better and shortened readies timer, but they broke Dessulator's. So they made a fix (very fast too!) that lets you use your Dessulators now. It's not a nerf, but a fix and people like Snk seems to completely don't understand that and even cry in SMN thread about it.

It's honestly not a total fix. It works in some sets but when I see a literal delay from when I use a ready move to it actually going off on a pet that for years was fast in performing the move then that's a nerf and not a correction.

Also let's not forget that the same day BST's ready range got nerfed they increased SMN's range on the same update. I was one of those folks that kept on trucking with BST even after that nerf which made a lot of people literally quit the job or the game.

I'm still fine with BST but I'm calling it like I see it that this change was a general *** up on a job that has very little utility in real group events much less solo these days since Trusts are now a thing.~

Also I made that comment in the February 2020 update thread. and not in a SMN related thread.

Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Nobody is denying that BST can contribute in group content (SMN can too, have seen it perform very well in Wave3 dynamis boss), so I don't want to go into that debate. I don;t think the serious complaints from people are about BST itself (we love the job), but moreso with SE's inability to address core issues with the job when players make nothing but valid points about it. Their stubbornness makes people a little bitter, and you can't blame them.

The joke with BST above was that BST got 2 new pets that are cute and niche, and SMN get a new BP/AFAC abuse tool, and can also provide SBII and high potency slow elegy etc. It's tongue-in-cheek remark, but it illustrates SE's disdain for the BST job in general. Players will always find a way to play BST in spite of all of that, but that just makes people feel SE has no true understanding of BST.

This is pretty much my general feelings for the most part. While I do have other jobs I enjoy playing obviously, It's a shame one of my favorite jobs really is lost in a whirl of confusion with the devs and they have no real idea how to make the job work.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-02-13 15:15:24  
On a positive note, BST is really useful in this month's V1 ambuscade, as far as dropping the shield and all. Hopefully that trickles down into groups and people aren't asking for SMN only.
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 Ragnarok.Inx
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By Ragnarok.Inx 2020-02-16 11:31:23  
SimonSes said: »
Mavrickx said: »
I see all them SMNs bragging and playing with their new Siren pet and spamming +40k damage+drain BPs and 50% Slow.... screw'em.... I'm gonna bust out my watermelon mandy pet and wow them with my 6k headbutts and 50 damage pet hit auto attack damage... that'll show them. because.... b a l a n c e

How about you take an axe and spam 40k Decimations while self buffing your attack to pdif cap? Doing overall several times more damage than SMN? (outside of SP)

For BST, master is the one doing damage, while pet is support (unless you aoE trash, then pet is doing all the work and much better than SMN's avatar)
For SMN, avatar is the one doing damage, while master is support

Stop compering BST's pet damage to SMN's avatar damage. To buff jug pet to power of avatar, you would need to nerf BST own damage by a LOT.

If you dont like this approach for BST, then play other job or something and keep writing on official forum to completely rework BST job, but stop crying about jug pets damage in current BST iteration.

The issue is that its antithetical to a job with such a variety of pets to make it play like Dragoon!

Its also disregarding how the job has been played for years and years, and how the actual DPS output from the pet side has been deliberately kept virtually static since Reisenjima.

If SE wanted pets to provide more of a supportive role then they need to change the rate and ease with which they can be swapped in and out. Having a variety of "spells" is great, but when they are on effectively a shared 5 minute timer the value of that facility drops off hard.

The main problem right now with BST (imho) is its incoherence as a functionally designed job. Its just lost in the weeds, and every change SE has made has just pushed it further and further out.
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 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-02-16 12:44:28  
I feel like the delay for Ready moves is longer than it used to be pre-updates. Am I crazy or did I get used to the shorter delay from last patch?

Also, last night I got to do pet zerg Kirin/WoC on BST for the first time since I'd finished my mythic and +2 neck, which was fun! We aren't beating SMNs by any stretch and I was a little rocky with my JA timing, but still it was a neat break for me from AFACburn. I'm hoping to do Reisenjima HELMs with BST with my LS as well!

Honestly though I feel like I could maybe do more damage with Doli/Decimation; like Inx says, pet damage has been pretty static since Reisenjima. Our multihit Ready set gained a bit with the JSE neck and Cait Sith ring but that's about it sadly.
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By Crossbones 2020-02-16 15:09:28  
You poor *** just can't win.

I'll pray for you.
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By Vankathka 2020-02-18 01:49:12  
Okay its been forever since I've edited a gearswap and I can't recall how to make it so the pet aftercast swaps into a petdt set its probably something simple I just can't remember how write the code line to do it.
 Bismarck.Rwolf
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By Bismarck.Rwolf 2020-02-18 17:03:07  
It felt nice to stumble on this JP thread where they seem to be stating the same complaints about BST. I only use Google translate on the page to get a jist of what they are not happy with and seems to generally match with us.
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 Shiva.Larrymc
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By Shiva.Larrymc 2020-02-18 17:29:34  
Bismarck.Rwolf said: »
It felt nice to stumble on this JP thread where they seem to be stating the same complaints about BST. I only use Google translate on the page to get a jist of what they are not happy with and seems to generally match with us.

Thank you for posting this - It was nice to see that us english BSTs were not the only ones complaining.

Google translate made me laugh on the very last post in the thread : "However, this bug was "Enhanced pet rides on the face.""
 Asura.Nyarlko
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By Asura.Nyarlko 2020-02-23 21:02:21  
I've been thinking about the BST range issue, harping on OF about small increases for a long time, etc.

I think that they could actually correct the unexpected Out of Range (OoR) errors at least with a surprisingly simple solution.

My primary complaint has focused on getting an OoR error when it looks like we should be within the absurdly short range. (It also is a pet peeve for me that the range nerf actually reintroduced not-insignificant racial inequality back into the game due to the universal targeting range variances between player model race/size.) The best explanation for why this is happening is simple lag/latency. I'm betting that there is no client-side distance-to-pet check when we attempt to initiate a JA, and given that there is a MASSIVE (by today's modern software standards at least,) latency range for this game, it would be nearly a given that onscreen positioning vs registered positioning on the server are going to not match up.

I believe that if they added client-side player pos data to BST JA activation packets that we'd at least see the elimination of those cases where we move to get into range, pop Ready/Reward/etc macro, and have it fail when it looks like we are standing right next to our pets. This would not fix all of our headaches, but at least remove the one that genuinely sets us apart from all other jobs by making us drastically more affected by lag.

I have not actually verified packet data since I don't know how to, so someone else more knowledgeable in the ways of sniffing will be needed to confirm/deny my assumption.

I HAVE actually looked into the lag issue due to my attempts last year to make a silly addon to play music using /bell, and the determination of the guys in the windower discord who were kind enough to test things for me when I ran into trouble was that the latency had too large a variance to reliably perform a large number of consecutive <wait1>'s to allow it to function.

Applying that to BST ranges as-is would mean that we'd need a minimum of 12~14y JA range to account for ~1sec of travel time that may not be registered on the server at the time the command is received. Since they are so bizarrely stubborn about adjusting our JA range, slapping a forced pos update onto BST JAs may be the best potential solution.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-02-23 23:30:11  
I really fail to understand why if their vision is to force bst frontline why the ready moves aren't tied to distance from the enemy being fought. It really is mindblowing how ridiculously unreasonable they're being over this one.

Like ok sure, you can't use ready from 20, but does it have be to literally zero? There's so much in the middle to work with.

Such an easy solution.

Could you imagine if you suddenly couldn't talk to npc's without standing literally on top of them? (I know half of you can't resist standing on top Gorpa-Masorpa already...) that's what this is, it's absolutely crazy.

May as well force the BST to ride the pet and split AoE damage.
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 Asura.Pusheen
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By Asura.Pusheen 2020-03-04 08:51:13  
Looking on some info pertaining to BST being used in this months Vol.1 VD ambu instead of smn. Thanks guys
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-03-04 09:04:51  
Pet TP moves can bypass the shield. Nothing else else to it besides that. Summoner is just a better option because it's stronger, can provide buff support, and stay out of range, which is a no brainer this month.

But If you're still looking to use a BST,

YouTube Video Placeholder
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-03-04 20:04:24  
Akihiko_Matsui;625022 said:
The aspect of diligently gathering gear to attain a 10-second recast time on Ready will be maintained. Regarding the item level of leg gear, we didn’t see it as a problem as we understood that the general playstyle was based around changing gearsets through usage of macros. While it’s possible to add a recast reduction bonus to the new ILv119 gear, this would be done when a new beastmaster-specific equipment is to be implemented.

We aren’t considering allowing pets’ support effects to apply to the entire party. One reason behind this is that some of these support effects are extremely powerful and are only allowed because they are limited to be applied to the master. Second reason is that by making this an area of effect, we can foresee players requesting beastmaster to fulfill a backline supporting role in parties.

Due to the base parameter values of pets and production cost required, we currently aren’t considering raising all pets to Lv119. However, now that the support effects affect the master, if there are any specific pets you would like to see raised to Lv119, please let us know. Additionally, please also let us know if there are any pets that are already Lv119, but you’d like to have support abilities added to them as well.

Regarding Reward, the main purpose of the ability is recovering HP. Therefore, greatly shortening its recast time is difficult to consider in terms of current balance. We could avoid the balancing issues, if for instance, we were to lower both healing potency and recast time to 1/3. However, this would mean it’d require three times the amount of items to achieve the same amount of healing, so then we’d have to consider things such as changing the quantity of items created in one synthesis to three, lowering the price to 1/3, and changing the stack size to 99.
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By Spaitin 2020-03-04 20:11:40  
welp. bst is going to stay a lol job.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-03-04 22:06:10  
Their logic behind not allowing buffs to be party wide are ridiculous. Also, LOL at them basically saying NO to everything people have asked for, but then turning around and saying "if there's pets you want 119 or abilities you want added, let us know!" LMFAO THEY DONT GIVE A ***ABOUT BST HAHAHA its so comical at this point.

They do need to make a 119 Faithful Falcor so we can get Fantods on demand though. But meh.

Also, lol at them saying "if we improve reward, we're just gonna nerf the ***out of it and make you use 3 times as many pet items for the same effect. do you really want that???" LOL the utter contempt they have for BST is laughable.
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By clearlyamule 2020-03-04 23:32:57  
And once again devs prove they don't really understand what's in the game and how people play. There is no way those buffs are too powerful or anyone who waste a slot on a bst that only buffed with them.
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 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2020-03-05 00:20:58  
They've consistently proven that they don't understand how beastmaster works. That's not going to change.

I'm relatively happy with BST lately though. Like, I get to use mine pretty often. Some of the pain points, like having to lose TP to get a 10s Ready charge, are gone, and I feel like I'm valuable on wave 3's. Our damage, both melee damage and maybe even pet damage, is still too low.
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By Felgarr 2020-03-05 01:23:33  
I think I'm going to just cancel my sub for the month of April. They don't care about Beastmaster or at least, continue to come up with extreme examples for why they won't make the changes we're asking for....It's silly. They continuously contradict themselves.

I know my measly sub won't matter, but I'll gladly post it a screenshot up on the official forums to help properly convey this frustrated sentiment.

SE's lengthy explanations just feel like post-PS2's answer for "PS2 Limitations"

Make us a front-line DD already and stop spoon-feeding us horse ***, already. Damn. :/
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By Felgarr 2020-03-05 14:23:01  
Beastmaster friends, liking this post in response to the Director's response, would be greatly appreciated:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/56445-February-2020-FINAL-FANTASY-XI-Digest?p=625054&viewfull=1#post625054
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By Spaitin 2020-03-05 14:49:56  
I think the biggest issue is they dont realize how weak beastmaster is.

At this point I am just asking for ways to exchange gear and get out of bst. Needs more uses than wave three or bust. Want to exchange my aymur/guttler/pangu for other items.
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 Odin.Senaki
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By Odin.Senaki 2020-03-05 15:07:18  
Spaitin said: »
I think the biggest issue is they dont realize how weak beastmaster is.

At this point I am just asking for ways to exchange gear and get out of bst. Needs more uses than wave three or bust. Want to exchange my aymur/guttler/pangu for other items.

To make things worse, our AF/Relic gears are almost garbage for a pet. More reward potency... yay?
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By Spaitin 2020-03-05 15:52:09  
Would also like to exchange my +3 Relic/af and my +1 empy as well. Maybe even pet path abjurations. Just get completely out of this dumpster fire. My favorite job is gone, i just need to accept it.
 Bismarck.Rwolf
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By Bismarck.Rwolf 2020-03-05 17:56:57  
I'm greatly disappointed in them. The meltdown over BST distance is just ridiculous at this point. I agree, you can absolutely tell they have no idea what BST is or how it's played.

At this point they essentially want BST to just be DRG with an Axe with a "wyvern" that has a temper at anything that smacks it. Not a fan.

I am surprised after running into that JP thread, that's still going on about BST. They mirror a lot of our concerns and are just as confused about the direction they are trying to go in. [Google Translate Link]

I really like this quote from one of the posts:
Colbet(GoogleTranslated) said:
Why is only a beastmaster carrying such a large handicap in the world of IL119?
In the past, Thief had had a similar problem with bandits' knives, but it has been improved and isn't it good to be improved?
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By FaeQueenCory 2020-03-05 18:26:23  
Bismarck.Rwolf said: »
I am surprised after running into that JP thread, that's still going on about BST. They mirror a lot of our concerns and are just as confused about the direction they are trying to go in.
Having read that whole thread, that's not exactly right. There's a few on the same page of ENG players' "old distance"; however most JP seem to be in the "10' plzkthx" camp. Most also seem to be fine with the idea of frontline BST, but that it's not being executed well. (and the lack of both pet and master stats on the same gear is the most common complaint there, especially with regard to the Artifact, Relic, and Empyrean +2/3 sets.)

They also agree in shortening the call beast timer though. That seems to be near uniform. As is the point how buffing a BST has to generally choose between the master or the pet.

There's also a weird desire for charm to be a thing again? Didn't expect that. (Not necessarily for taking mobs, but just give it an auxiliary effect like stun or dispel or something.)
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By shamgi 2020-03-05 20:39:36  
One thing to note is that there's several UNM items that are relevant to BST, so it might be interesting to see if they made any interesting choices there.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-03-05 21:26:47  
Is there literally anything a bst uses in unity gear? Aside from universal DT items.

I guess 1 axe and 1 earring must be "several"
 Bahamut.Unagihito
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By Bahamut.Unagihito 2020-03-05 21:36:52  
There are two axes, one of which has Charm. Speaking of which, I don’t know why they don’t just use “Charm” stat as like “Blood Pact damage” stat or something.
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2020-03-05 21:39:53  
enmity set is some unity gear
emet harness
zoar subligar
unmoving collar


pet stuff is handler's earring... So yay, handler's earring +2... which might mean some people don't need shepherd's chain anymore? ... but still dt vs pdt.

the axes and shields not much use for, but maybe if they get buffed enough... but hard to imagine. wish there was a pet dt shield.
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By Spaitin 2020-03-05 22:15:29  
Unless the augments are pretty extreme, the only jobs that are likely to get better are the jobs that can use montante.
 Bismarck.Rwolf
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By Bismarck.Rwolf 2020-03-05 22:47:17  
FaeQueenCory said: »
Having read that whole thread, that's not exactly right. There's a few on the same page of ENG players' "old distance"; however most JP seem to be in the "10' plzkthx" camp. Most also seem to be fine with the idea of frontline BST, but that it's not being executed well. (and the lack of both pet and master stats on the same gear is the most common complaint there, especially with regard to the Artifact, Relic, and Empyrean +2/3 sets.)

They also agree in shortening the call beast timer though. That seems to be near uniform. As is the point how buffing a BST has to generally choose between the master or the pet.

There's also a weird desire for charm to be a thing again? Didn't expect that. (Not necessarily for taking mobs, but just give it an auxiliary effect like stun or dispel or something.)

I didn't go through the whole thread, just the very recent posts. That sucks to hear about distance. I was more focused on the other stuff like Axe WS talk, pet/master stats on same gear, how BST isn't currently built as a melee focused job.

I did say a lot and not all of our concerns. I guess you can be nitpicky about if it constitutes a lot but that's semantics. The general consensus is a lot of us seem to not like the current state of BST. Versus it being a regional thing.
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