Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

When exactly do you need to have Ready charge delay- gear on? When you use the ready move? When the ready move lands? When the charge tics over?

Its just like fast cast gear for precast.

equip Gleti's legs for when you use the ready move. you can then change immediately to pet attack or mab gear or whatnot.

Any use for Tri-Edge?
Im at that point where i really want one even though im pretty sure ill never use it and yet....

Mistral/Calamity with Ikenga's R30 offhand maybe?
4step Umbra with Mistral>Primal>Ruinator>Ruinator?

Question about Killer Instinct.

According to the BG Wiki page, Killer Instinct gives the party 15% (10% on NMs) killer effect for the relevant family, as well as the same effect of the Augments "Killer" Effects on the BST Empy Body based on the total killer effect of that family for each person.

According to the first page of this guide, Killer Instinct instead works like the Circle abilities on other jobs, where everyone in range gets 15% (10% on NMs) killer effect, damage dealt+, and damage taken-.

Which is correct?

From bg wiki killer instinct page directly:

"This bonus is separate from similar bonuses provided by equipment such as the Ferine/Nukumi Gausape variants and Founder's Breastplate, which augment killer effects.

This means a party member benefitting from both Killer Instinct and a piece of gear which "Augments Killer Effects" like the Nukumi Gausape or Founder's Breastplate gain the full +% Killer Trait as a Damage+% and DamageTaken-% bonus."

It's a circle for the active pet's favored enemy providing killer+15 to that enemy type AFAIK. If you have" augments killer" gear then it will take effect due to killer instinct providing killer for the favored enemy type.

Normally, circle effects give the full killer effect as damage dealt and damage taken, instead of 1/2 like augments killer effect gear and what that page implies.

Basically, let's say you use Killer Instinct on someone with no other killer effects using the relevant pet against a non-NM. Will they get +15% killer effect/+15% damage dealt/-15% damage taken (like how other circle effects work and how the first page of this guide says it works), or will they get +15% killer effect/+7.5% damage dealt/-7.5% damage taken (like how the BG wiki page says)?

15% intimidate, damage dealt, and damage taken.

if they are wearing founders or gausape , it's an additional amount

so example if you have no merits, and if I recall right it's 10% from each trait. if i use an arbitrary 1000 damage it would be like this for yourself:

1000 with no killer or gear
1050 with just gear
1150 with just instinct
~1293 with both, depends where it gets floored

The buff itself is 15% Killer, +15% damage done, -15% damage taken, +15% intimidation rate against the favored enemy(as long as it's not an NM). Period. Vs NM's the bonus is halved. Using augment's killer gear (Bst Empy body/Founders Breastplate) you receive 1/2 of your total killer+ added to your damage done and damage reduction.

BST with amorph using killer instinct on you in party vs colibri.

Before KI you have:
0 Killer trait
0 Bonus Damage
0 Bonus DT

After KI you have:
+15% Killer Effect
+15% Bonus Damage
-15% Damage Taken

Vs NM's the bonuses (Aside from Killer effect) are halved.

I did some tests on NM (only for damage done, im too lazy for damage taken):

KI alone: +10% damage
Nukumi without killer merits: +4% +3%
KI + nukumi: ~17.7%

So looks like Nukumi is more like +40% of Killer Effects (at least on NM) and KI adds 10%damage and 10%killer effect against NM, so with KI+Nukumi+10%basekiller, you have:

1 * 1.1 * 1.08 = ~18.8

EDIT: Check posts below

against what and what gear, and what damage values did you get? 12% trait and gear would give you the 4%, which would be 19.9%, floored to 19%

either that or the flooring would be floor((15 + 10) * (2/3)) = 8

1.1*1.08 would get the 18.8%

I actually did mistake. I forgot Escha vorseals adds Killer Effects, so i dropped them:

Nukumi with base 10% trait (afaik BST doesn't have 12%, but 10%) is only +3%dmg again NM. So looks like Killer effect from trait is reduced to 66% and Nukumi is 50% of that floored to 3%.

The problem I have is with Nukumi and KI. Both of those add ~17.7% damage and I know KI itself adds 10%. So looks like Nukumi with KI+Trait adds 7% and Im not sure how unless its 0.66 * 20% = 13.2% and half of that is 6.6% and that is rounded up instead of being floored down?

Escha NM Aglaophotis Rafflesia, random gear I was just balancing gear for almost identical HP (since im using 3000TP Spirits Within for test) and adding 12%WSD for WS without Nukumi, to even out 12%WSD on Nukumi itself. KI alone I also checked on party members being non bst to be sure its +10% on them too.

I had no killer effect in gear and I have no merits in Killer Effects, so it should be just 10% base without KI.

EDIT: I guess small difference might also comes from 12%WSD on Nukumi could be slightly less or more than 10%WSD on cape + 2%WSD on Ishvara.

EDIT: Ok I think I know what might be going on here. Killer Effcts from trait and KI are calculated separately with Nukumi. First we have


Then we have:


Which together give 7% I can see in test's results.

are you using something like spirits within? and HP is the same each time?

it should be about 18% for both KI and body, but I don't know what exact values you are using so I can't tell you where the flooring is.

10+6 / 2 = 8
1.1 * 1.08 = 18.8%, floored to 18%

This would be 5, not 4.

yes


It's close it's 17.7%

It's eihter because of 12%WSD on Nukumi is less than 10%WSD on cape and 2%WSD on Ishvara or they use 0.66 instead of 2/3 and calculate Killer Effect from trait and JA separately (you then get 9.9 from 15% and 4.85% is rounded down to 4%).

Anyway the point is KI adds 10% damage on NMs
Nukumi is 50% of Killer Effects
KE are reduced to (2/3) or 0.666 on NMs, including KE that comes from trait and KI. I'm pretty sure it's also true for KE on gear, but I can't say for sure, because I only did small test with 5% on helm and 5% would either add 1% (with (2/3) reduction) or 2% (without (2/3) reduction), but going from 25% to 30% could also change rounding down from ~16.6/2=8 to 20/2=10 and would add 2% because of that even with (2/3) reduction. I'm too lazy and have no time to add enough gear Killer Effect now to make conclusive tests for gear KE atm.

Depends how they calculate it.

(2/3) of 15 is 10
0.666666666666 * 10 is 9.9999999999

if they use something like *0.66 instead of *(2/3) and they round down, then it would be a difference between rounding down to 10 or 9, then half of that would be either 5 or 4.5 and rounded down to 5 or 4.

Beastmaster has 10% killer effect against plants without merits or gear.
When using Killer Instict, master get +15 killer effect for a total of 25, add killer effect +3 from vorseals = 28
I think you guys are missing this key point.

(Frankly I keep the killer effect merits and often ws w/ Ankusa helm for another +5, so total of 38 killer effect in Escha zones, can cap it w/ 5 min cookie for +12 killer effects, used to keep arktoi offhand for 5 also... but not worthwhile anymore)

14% damage bonus from nukumi body from the killer effects augment.
15% from killer instinct itself. they are multiplied in separate steps, so total damage bonus would be 31.1% bonus.

This does not account for NM reduction... and its probably a little less because it would be floored between multiplication steps.

if you cap killer effect and use nukumi body, you can cap at a 43.75% bonus. hmm thats strange. IIRC only 38% was practical when we were testing it. But this is why Falkirk kept a killer/Dt set in the guide.
Its also why I've been trying so hard to make a feasible bst tanking build. because bst can use killer effects to surpass the damage reduction cap of 50% by a fair amount. Unfortunately bst enmity tools are not up to the task at all.

IIRC, Killer effects were REDUCED by 2/3 vs NM's when we first tested it. meaning it should reduce from 15 to 5, not 15 to 10. guess I should retest it though... we did this testing maybe 10 years ago. I don't remember how the NM reduction worked between killer effects and augment from body vs just killer instinct alone.

When testing before we were seeing damage reduction tests from 1000 needles. but also checking with /sch and just using tier1 nukes.

I think it sucks to reduce killer effect vs nms by so much... but it also makes some sense. I mean, you can intimidate spell casting and tp moves... so if bst could intimiate 50% of anything before even checking for evasion, block, parry, counter, etc.. it would be rather OP for tanking.

Which would make your KI only result 9%, not 10%

no, he claimed he took off vorseals, and if they were on, and fighting an NM, the result would be even higher than what is expected.

everything else you said is accounted for

It's not accounted for.

He's calculating bonuses for the nukumi body augment AND killer instinct.

The 15 killer effect from killer instinct will increase the 10 to 25 even if vorseals are gone. So the base killer effect to start with is 25, not 10. Only use 10 if you are not calculating killer instinct at all.

Edit: Derp nvm. I see he is separating the 10 and 15 killer effects. I don't remember that that was necessary

25 * (2/3) / 2 = 8
15 * (2/3) = 10

1.1 * 1.08 = 18

it's accounted for

Blah,, reviewing all the Killer effect and Killer Instinct informtion makes me want a better Tamer's ring... Killer effect +3 without the stupid latent conditions. and hopefully a little something more.

It tedious capping Killer effects.

as long as I'm whining about it... Totemic Gloves +3 should have swapped the buffs w/ totemic trousers +3..
namely the wsd +10% should have been on the legs, and the pet attack+ should have been on the hands... Killer effects+ should have been more than 2 on legs. should have been another 5 like ankusa helm. MUCH better synergy of abilities. Ankusa Helm +3 is great.

Believe it or not I'm not a fan of Primal (or cloudsplitter, or basically any magic ws)
Is this the only way we can achieve Umbra?
I've tried to use Flippantry, but it doesn't take into consideration Tri-Edge.
At the moment I'm rocking a R15 Guttler of which im very fond of, and spamming onslaught > ruinator > onslaught and if it's not enough to get 99'999 lv4 darkness I add decimation/mistral at the beginning.
This basically kills everything i need to kill, but i admit id love to see Umbra lol

Only Ruinator under the Aeonic Aftermath affect or Cloudsplitter can do Umbra due to Cloudsplitter already having the Darkness tag, if you want to multistep Primal Rend will have to be used at somepoint because of its Gravitation tag which is limited to Onslaught or Primal, or just use Ruinator > Ruinator with level 3 Aftermath, but thats generally a waste of time due to how poor the damage is.

Well KI was exactly 0.0998, so its very possible it's 0.66, but it's not rounded down, but it's also possible it's just in /1024 and marginally less than 15% base.

I only did that, because Nukumi was adding 3% damage from 10% base Killer Effects, but 4% more (total 7%) from 15% Killer Effects from KI, while the expected values would be 5% more for a total of 8%. So I was trying to find a reason for it, including the possibility that they use *0.66 instead of *(2/3) for each individual Killer Effect source (gear/trait/ja).

All that are just details tho. Main points I was trying to test or confirm are bolded in my post.

Bg wiki had it wrong for almost two years (since May 2021) and I knew it for a long time, but I have no intention to even touch the hornest's nest that is cast of some un/popular podcast who tested and edited Killer Instinct page and even proudly discussed it on mentioned podcast if I remember correctly. I can see someone did some good corrections in July 2021 (before that the info there was terrible), but there is still big misinformation there.

This part is completely untrue. The damage bonuses are simply +15% on regular stuff and +10% on NMs and are not based on Killer effects at all.

Attempting a TP Drainkiss lockdown strategy never seems to go all that well for me, so... any tips? For example, can anyone point to a comprehensive explanation of how to be the best BST for an Mboze fight? Feel free to explain like I'm 5.

Some questions:
1) Are you keeping the pet engaged on the mob the whole time and allowing it to feed some TP? Does this differ whether Unleash is up or down (i.e., if spamming under Unleash fine to leave the pet out, but not if you're waiting for 3 charges per Ready move when Unleash is down)?

2) Can BST actually drain fast enough to rely on if Unleash isn't active?

3) Are people switching jugs for stuff like a desired Killer effect with Call Beast, and then using Bestial Loyalty for Fatso?

4) Weapons/Armor?
(a) How much does Aymur matter for this strat? (mine is in progress and have been slowly chipping away for months, currently down to lacking some Nyzul tokens and a few assaults before I get the base weapon and can work through trials and 119 r15 it probably late this month)
(b) If single wielding, is something like a Pangu C path better for strong pet acc/macc and good master/pet DT- (help guard against damage from AoEs that get through, spells, adds, whatever)? What about where DW is possible - Aymur/Pangu ideal? Something else like Agwu?
(c) Whatcha idling in for armor? I assume trying to cap DT- for master and pet, add as much Meva and other defensive stats as possible - not sure what's optimal set for that though.

Gimme some tips so I suck less at sucking the mob's TP away! :)

I dont leave pet engaged if it can hit for non 0 or if it can die. For Unleash I keep it engaged, because it wouldn't make sense not to do it.


It can be enough if target doesn't get much tp from hitting (paralyze, slow) and people are capped SBI at least and TP on Add. There is video of Arebati V25 with only BST doing TP drain.




Yes



It matters a lot, if you are the only one to TP drain. It's especially very important under 25%, because you need to TP drain before boss reaches 1000TP, which means you wont have more than ~500 TP on pet, so without Aymur, you are only at ~1200 effective TP with Nukumi+3. This means you only draining ~55% of target's TP, which probably won't be enough to keep it from eventually reaching that 1000TP. Now with Aymur you would be at 2500-2600, draining like 90%. You could potentially make some tp on adds with your pet, but it still would be much easier to make like 500TP and be at 3000TP with Aymur, than trying to get like 1500TP with other weapon (not to mention pet's AM3 from Aymur).


Where though? This strategy is mostly used in Odyssey and you can't have sub there. Otherwise it depends if you are doing damage as BST or not. Ikenga's or Agwu's. Macc for pet is kinda useless here, TP drainkiss doesn't check for macc. Path C augment doesn't work in offhand, so there is no DT for you or pet.

I'm not a BST so take this with an appropriately sized grain of salt, but it's worth noting that you can change into Pangu after using Ready and then have master and pet DT in idle set. In this fight you're rarely if ever using your axe to hit the enemy, so you can swap into one axe for Ready and another for idle.

Oh, and Aymur gives full 1000 TP bonus at level 75, so you don't need to 119, AG, R15 it to use it for TP drainkiss.

Kinda depends. For example on that video you see, BST is spamming cloudsplitter with Aymur AM3 (for 0 damage, to not feed TP) to reset WS wall for other people. Now on something like Mboze you could be using Calamity for the same reason and doing damage too. BST doing nothing beside TP drainkiss could work for first KI when you want to slowly reach like 74% and there is no add to even TP on, but if you want to use TP drain strategy to kill, then at V25, BST will need to TP/WS too.