The Last Dance II: The Show Must Go On

Some numbers:

Using BIS sets from here with 2x perfect Taming Siri as weapons. I intentionally lowered augments on Herculean to only 5%WSD and 0 DEX (instead of +10 on every piece) to avoid "but you need perfect augments" accusation. It's assuming capped pdif, but I havent included JSE's +10% to cap limit.

PK: 13851
8 hits PK (TA+DA proc): 21935

1000TP Rudra: 14747
2000TP Rudra: 24490
3000TP Rudra: 28958

Like you see, unless you proc multihit 1000TP Rudra is better. Counting in TP overflow Rudra is better even when you proc multi attacks on Pyrrhic and Rudra's also can proc multihit which I havent included here. If you have Aeneas it won't even be close and Rudra's will destroy PK completely. If you have Twashtar it obviously will favors Rudra's too. If you have enough acc to use Centovente offhand it will destroy PK completely. The only thing that makes PK competitive is mythic and even then its only competitive if you don't take advantage of Rudra's self Darkness.

Mythic PK is super good and your best spammable WS by far esp when theres so much spam that your not gonna make any SCs with other players and am3 is going to help tp freq a touch. Was gonna make one when the WS bug was around, i could only imagine the #s you would hit with building flourishes 20% WS boost effect on all hits along with WS+ gear.

As a Aeneas and twash owner its rudra for me all day. I love thf and dnc really no point to making a mythic for either. I'll likely aug my twash one day. Dnc can force crit 2-3 Rudras every 1min 30 seconds. Thf can do 2 over 1 min 48 sec. Only takes 3 presto steps to build up to the FMs to prepare for the climatic burn (Less ja delay in favour if mythic dnc i can see that. Hoping they make steps ignore delay down the like pup maneuvers.). Rudra is alot more SC friendly with alot more WSs compared to PK. I get you can still make darkness using evis into PK for very good damage as well.

As emp +3 is released we will get yet another 10% WS damage on either head feet or body i'm assuming. As well as another 5-10% Crit damage on Emp head and extra force crit rounds mabey + stat vomit. That Dnc neck is quite nice. Tons of acc 25 dex and 25 chr for forced Climatics bis step piece walts high acc tp piece.

Still unsure what JSE's +10% to cap limit is doing.
No point repeating what simon mentioned above as i agree.

I know this might come as an ignorant person's question, but what's the deal with Centovente again? I know it has been frequently mentioned recently, but I can't really find further details about it.

1k TP bonus, a ton of damage to ws like rudra, same as savage blade and tpbonus gun

Oh I see... thank you

it is fodder material, i take it then

Not necessarily only a fodder (well depends what you mean by fodder too). With r15 Twashtar, Sushi, neck+2, Telos, Relic+3 body/feet, path A Adhemar head/hands, yamarang, Ilabrat, Epona's and good augment on herc legs you could potentially reach around 1200 acc with Centovente in offhand. 1200 is not high enough for many scenarios, but should work for a lot of things, especially in zerg situations with many buffs.

I'm considering fodder anything not Dyna-D Wave 3

By any means, I guess I,LL give it a shot, since I'm also an adept of /WAR Terps with airy buckler

Wording questions is hard.

What is the current draw to dancer for a party setup?

I love messing around with dancer on solo stuff, or low man content. But alliance content, say a melee wave 3 boss run, whats the lure of a dancer in that situation?

Recently it feels with the current play style of "everybody spam their ws as soon as tp available" dancer has been forced out with its heavier than normal reliance on sc damage.

Pdif And delay capping for everybody I believe.

You're giving everyone:

23% defense down in it's own category

14% crit rate

Mevasion down for leaden/trueflight

+Accuracy for quick step when accuracy can be an issue(sometimes).

Haste samba for wars or melee bards(if they aren't capping dw)

Powerful situational AOE healing.

You are a:

Super tanky sturdy self-sustaing DD that can sub a defensive sub and lose a very minor amount of damage. You don't lower your own defense to maximize damage, you TP in 16-46% PDT.

Also:

PK with terp or rudras with aeneas can contribute a very meaningful amount of damage.

Your bringing alliance wide debuffs in the form of boxstep 23% def down at max level, 44 evasion down with quickstep and crit rate boost 10-14% with feather step over the course of battle, Mevasion down will help the magic WSs out to with Stutter(A laughable 30...)Its still a strong DD even without reliance on SC damage. Pop/refresh Fandance for tons of pdt for when you take hate help ya live. Or Saber for increasing your extra attack a touch. Cures/ga erase if you feel you need to help with that. Sambas i hardly ever use them. 5 Finishing move climatic flourish rudra reverse flourish rudra 2-3 tp rounds another forced crit rudra is alot of damage. Toss in trance you might do 4.

Rudras SCs well with most major WSs open closes with Leaden (Same with PK) Gonna see alot of that. Both WS close with Reso. Both open for upheavel or close ukkos fury.They both close with savage blade if someones using that. Both open and close with stardiver (I'm not a drg dunno what they like using or whats best.) Both for any of Nins blade hi ten. Metsu only for Rudra, PK can fusion with shun but idk what nins gonna be using shun when buffed that much for wave 3. No love for Sam or Sword users rly. Still gonna see some SCs in the spam i think.

Good list; would also include extremely versatile Darkness skillchaining, especially given the ascendancy of Leaden Salute (and who doesn't have CORs around?).

Agreeing with the above responses.

To give an actual specific use case, I did Dyna Wave 3 clears on DNC/SAM, my job was quickstep/boxstep duty. I kept Samba/Saber Dance on the bosses and Fan Dance on adds. On the boss I spammed PK with Terpsichore, and despite losing a lot of DPS due to JA delay, still parsed in the top 3-4, behind WAR and DRK, but ahead of other DDs and the DP CORS.

Dancer is a very good choice for Dynamis.

It's my go-to Dynamis job as well for the reasons mentioned above. Quickstep is a godsend for wave 3 NMs, but for the end bosses, I'll switch to box/stutter. We always run a COR party (along with a WHM, BRD, and GEO) then a tank party followed by a third DD party (which gets songs, but no rolls). I'm usually no more than a couple percentage points behind our aeonic SAM.

All these comments, definitely makes any aspiring Dancer happy, excited, and ready to be part of end-game content.[Awesome responses]

Two more points can be added [MMO oriented]:

• The playstyle is definitely more versatile than any "mele" job [Weapon/WS Choice, JA Mechanics, Switching of Roles on the go], also; no two dancers will ever act the same way, and thats an extremely attractive attribute in [Job Design], its basically almost immune to bandwagon, and further emboldens your individuality in the game.

• It can be used as an indicator to the linkshells you're planning on joining [either low-man or larger groups], if the leaders, strategists, or even normal members don't accept you there on Dancer, you have enough evidence not to join them due to their lack of insight and versatility for everything that was mentioned in responses.

P.S Don't forget that its an excellent closing sc partner too, with the highest scDMG in game!

Which centovente to use? The Tp bonus or does WSD% work in offhand?

Oh never mind. I see it was just discussed above.

I was able to tank Dyna-D Bastok Wave 3 Megaboss as DNC for some time giving our weakened tankers time to heal/recover after some trouble with adds (charm from bst iirc). It wasn't anything more than a minute and i ended up dead, but it prevented the boss to go after the party and trash them... so yeah, go for parties and leaders that value this kind of versatility and above everything, know they can rely on your capacities such as my colleagues do.

Regarding Centovente, I'm having a hard time seeing it be viable on anything but lower end content. Even if you get massive Rudra numbers in zergs, you're either giving up a significant amount of multiattack/STP in gear (and I'm not sure if that even covers the 269~ Acc difference) or asking for extra Accuracy buffs from the BRD/GEO, gimping the amount of Attack buffs or defensive stuff the rest of the party receives, ultimately gimping Alliance DPS for higher personal DPS.

I'd rather not sift through 60+ pages right now if there's nothing conclusive to find, but did anybody run the numbers to compare Twash/Cento to Aeneas/Twashtar while taking more than just raw WS numbers into account?

Yes, they did, and Twash/Cento was huge damage. It is ONLY good in zerg, hyper-buff scenarios where the extra accuracy needed does NOT detract from other buffs. It is a niche option, not a regular choice.

I assume you mean zergs with BRD rotations so you don't lose out on Minuets for Madrigals.

Yes, correct. When you're super-buffed, Centovente is a fantastic offhand.

Got it, thanks for the clarification!

Found the post comparing DPS. This is from 3 months ago, so it should be relatively current.

Looks like another project for me after Twash is done!

You think too much, lol.

We have been using Centovente for melee teles for really, really, really long time so really there's no big deal. If the situations don't favor it, don't use it. If the situation favors it then use it. Or create a situation that favors it and use it.

500 more dps is no joke in ffxi.


Or other DD can take advantage of surplus of acc buffs.

There are always more room to lower acc in gears for higher dps. For example, my absolute lowest tp set on cor only has 1020 and ws set is less than 1000. And I can even eat stp food instead of sushi if I get surplus of acc buffs.

So yeah, if I'm getting a buff that give me 500 more acc, it's dps increase for me, not decrease. It should apply to most jobs, imo.

All this talk about TPbonus offhands wheres the KC numbers. Same buff requirements with much faster tp gain.

I know you were being sarcastic but:

1) DNC can't equip Kraken Club
2) It would be another -424 (approx) accuracy, compared to Centovente, now that's a big big hit if you ask me...

It would be good to get someone else produce the same tests Katriina did. Not because I don't trust Kat, but because this is an interesting topic and it would be good to compare different tests from another person.
Austar is your DNC simulator ready or not? Last time I heard you were still working on it but that's a long time ago.


Katriina, when you write "Climactic mode" in the second column, what do you assume?
Perma Climactic? Or is it an average that assumes an use every 90 seconds, steps included?
If that's so soes it assume 3 Rudra on each Climactic or 3?


Personally the Aeneas/Twash numbers seem a bit off compared to Aeneas/Taming. Shouldn't the difference be a bit higher?
I was getting a larger gap on the spreadsheet.
Nevermind misread the numbers, difference seems okaysh I guess xD

I was aware of THF using Centovente to boost SA Rudras in the past, but if DNC is using it on Teles, then it's presumably a zerg as discussed before. In which case it still is not a general-purpose weapon set like Aeneas/Twashtar, which is what I was curious about due to an earlier discussion with an LS mate.

In zergs it's pretty much a given that buffing should push everyone to the level of being able to use their highest multiattack/STP sets. But many/most fights in this game aren't 1hr zergs.