Sigurd's Descendants: The Art Of Dragon Slaying.

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Sigurd's Descendants: The Art of Dragon Slaying.
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By Highwynd 2014-09-11 17:35:54  
A great job point is +acc/att when wyvern is out. So +30acc/att bonus on top of the 20% att/def 10% haste would be cool. Or maybe +1STR to rival hasso job points.
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 17:45:58  
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Some corrections, opinions and suggestions.

EDIT: I originally had this spoilered due to length, but after I posted clicking on the spoiler link wouldn't open it... what gives?

Spirit surge
Quote:
The duration of Spirit Surge can be extended to 80 seconds by using Spirit Surge while having either of these items equipped:

It then list 3 items. Either is for two options. Should use "any" instead.

Fly High
It's a good SP, But getting the most out of its, far too short, duration can be difficult. It requires good timing, and no interruptions(GD stun melee mobs..) It is a really, really good way to get AM3 back up though. XD

Jump
Quote:
Level 10, 1:00 recast (can be reduced to 0:50)
Perhaps add "via merits" in the ()? Sure, it gets covered in the merit section, but that comes substantially later in the guide. Depending on what order of newb might be reading this, they may not know how the recast is reduced.

High jump

This has been mentioned by others, but Wyrm brais(+1/+2/ptero) high jump enhancement is not mentioned at all. While enmity control is rarely a major factor in the game for melee atm, anyone new should be made aware the the enhancement exists. I don't think there's a need to categorically list every form of the legs/put pics of them, but it should at least get a little note.

Spirit/Soul jump

You may want to find a more up to date image for lancer's Cuissots. Up to date lancer legs have text for both the spirit and soul jump enhancements.

Ryunohige

You might note that Mythic AM3 procs on WS. Most OAX effects don't, so that's notable. And while this may obvious to most of us, guides are often for newbs.

Con. AM3 Management is a pain in the arse. Yes, jumps help a lot. Meditate helps too(but considering the potenct of /WAR now, may not have meditate anymore.)

But bad timing can just screw you. Lack of mobs when you need to rebuild. A fight starting with 30 seconds left on duration and you already at 3k TP.. you get to sit there and melee till AM3 wears, cause it doesn't freaking overwrite.. Anyway. That's the con. /rant off.

Is it still worth it? Hell yes.

Rhongomiant/Gungnir

Quote:
The Wyvern does not get any benefits, at all.

I'm not really sure you can call that a con. Sure, AM3 wyvern is a benefit for Ryunohige. If a small one(perhaps better post update?) But it's not much of a loss for Rhongo/Gungnir. And it's not like any weapon but Ryu has notable wyvern benefits.

Olyndicus

Quote:
Not necessarily easy to obtain, because the Mistmaw Xelhua can drop a Sharur instead of an Olyndicus.

While we don't really need to know what the other drop is as it's not DRG related... The name of the alluvion skirmish club "Sharur" has been changed to "Nehushtan."

You might mention the ease of 5-hitting as a pro, although, since I haven't personally checked builds for it, I'm uncertain how significant a benefit it would be.

Job points
To rant, or not to rant? Hmmm, rant.

I was pretty disappointed by the majority of DRG job points.

The spirit surge JP is good. But it's linked to the same issues as spirit surge itself. -.-;

1: Your jumps suck without a wyvern. So during spirit surge, you may get your recasts back, but you get to use crappy jumps. At least with Ryu tier 1 jumps still auto-crit, but you still lose out on the x2/x3 TP gain. Which is the important part. -.-

2: It kills your wyvern. And while you may have the call wyvern recast ready, you just knocked off your back up wyvern. The wyvern is vastly more important than before. If he(or you) goes down after this, then you're out +20% atk, 10% haste, and jump enhancements for ~20 mins.

If you're gonna use spirit surge, I hope you're in a situation where you and your wyvern can survive till that recast is back up.

Fly high JP

/sigh. Are you serious SE? DRG is, generally, atk starved. Or was before the last update. But even before that, the one place we didn't need atk.. was jumps. Spirit/Soul jump already have +25%/+50% atk bonuses. +the unknown values on lancer cuissots.

Post Wyvern exp ATK bonus AND getting berserk due to the second coming of /war... Jumps are probably going to be capping atk a lot.

And even when you aren't capping, +50 jump atk on fly high is peanuts. The majority of Fly high's DMG isn't coming from direct jump dmg, it's from the additional WS you get due to jump TP. And even the impact of +50 atk on jump DMG is piddly.

Jump JP, same deal. I did a little spreadsheet check when The jump JP first came out. Just how much do you get outta grinding it to 10/10?

0.182 DPS... Consider that I had DRG at about 1500 total DPS in the sheet at the time. 0.182 is not even a drop in the bucket. Maybe a vapor molecule?

If you're getting a lot of JP anyway, as a side effect of other activities, sure. Upgrade some JP. But I wouldn't intentionally invest any time in it.

Personally, I'm sitting on like 40~ JP I incidentally acquired in hopes that they'll add a JP that isn't worthless in the future. <,<

/rant off.

Some suggested additions.

Wyvern exp bonus section.

While the new atk/haste bonus is mentioned, mostly in reference to spirit link and empathy, it never actually specifies the source of said buff. The wyvern EXP mechanic. This could use some explanation. General mechanics. Things like the fact that it wears on zoning, and on gain/loss of some types of confrontation status(voidwatch, for example.)

Specific mention of wyvern types/behaviors. There are only minor references to wyvern behavior. This should be expanded and explained.

Healing breath mechanics. Triggers, magic/ja, etc. There's a gear set for restoring breath, and references to triggering healing breath with spells. But nothing on the requirements to trigger HB. Any newbs coming in here could be quite confused.

Solo. Perhaps something on solo. Subs, tactics, equipment(ethereal earring!)etc. For example, the practice of swapping in HP+ gear before casting a spell to trigger Healing breath, thus raising the HP value at which HB can be triggered.

BLU Sub. Legato, you never asked me anything about solo, iirc. So /BLU never came up. lol. It def needs to be listed.

DNC sub(really just for dynamis, but still.)

I haven't gone over gear sets. I'm waiting till the new atk+/haste gets added to the spreadsheet before I do any detailed comparisons. So I haven't looked at any of the new gear in-depth either.

That's all for now.

Reading this felt like this one time I turned in a report for a history class, and I thought I did really good.

Came back and my professor gave me a C- :/

I will make the changes that you mentioned tonight.

Some things I would like you to clarify;
Wyvern behavior?

Am3 management: I understand and can agree with you on those situations that you noted, but to say it's a con might be stretching it right?

When you take a look at all the other 2 hand jobs or all the melee jobs altogether

SAM & DRG have the easiest time maintaining AM3 compared to everyone else (maybe DNC? Is close)
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By Cerberus.Conagh 2014-09-11 18:01:31  
Carbuncle.Legato said: »
Some things I would like you to clarify;
Wyvern behavior?

The way they behave in combat when you engage, the fact they don't reposition mid-fight and anything using conal effect's need to be turned away from it to stop it getting smacked about, which person it will cure first with breath attacks IE: Trust NPC's before the master because SE can't seem to fix this (not sure if Ninja fixed but I know this was an issue) the fact that using breath attacks from pet actually lowers it's DPS due the delay and how little damage those attack do in comparison to Normal White DOT, whether the pet being paralyzed will interrupt a healing breath or not, whether being /whm locks its use of DD breath attacks, as apposed to /blu and rdm etc

AM3 Management, it could be argued that doing WS at 3k tp on fodder is dumb, you could also argue that AM3 on DRG won't see a return DPS wise until after x time which depending how fast you kill NM's 1~3 could actually be a waste and not give you the epeen DPS you are looking for (You would still fix this and pull ahead across 2 nms) but the majority of NM's in content have a tad more HP than this, Kurma springs to mind and Tojil.

Am3 on lesser NM's is [probably not as useful and I believe he is referring to it's impact and whether its as useful to maintain it on lesser nm's specially when you factor in running around etc.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 18:41:47  
Carbuncle.Legato said: »
Reading this felt like this one time I turned in a report for a history class, and I thought I did really good.

Came back and my professor gave me a C- :/

I will make the changes that you mentioned tonight.

Some things I would like you to clarify;
Wyvern behavior?
Hey, it was pretty good. I had to read it twice to notice some of these. XD

What wyverns do, and what the conditions are. It's linked to wyvern types. Example: When will a wyvern use elemental breaths? When you WS, IF you have offensive or hybrid sub job. And when you use smiting breath. etc.

Carbuncle.Legato said: »
Am3 management: I understand and can agree with you on those situations that you noted, but to say it's a con might be stretching it right?

When you take a look at all the other 2 hand jobs or all the melee jobs altogether

SAM & DRG have the easiest time maintaining AM3 compared to everyone else (maybe DNC? Is close)
I thought I was fairly clear.

If there is any downside to having Ryu, it's dealing with starting and maintaining AM3.

And it doesn't overwrite, so you need to time it well. And when things happen when you need to renew AM3, it causes problems. If you build 3000 TP too early you sit there just meleeing for extra time till it wears. If you start too late, It wears before you hit 3k, and you have to build the rest w/o AM3. So it's slower, and you have waay less multi hit on jumps.

When managing AM3, you have to think ahead more. Plan for it. And things don't always cooperate.(example: TP drain/wiping mobs.... /raaaaage)

Ugh, it just occurred to me, that the DPS cost of putting up AM3 is actually worse now. Before, you were using your strongest WS, at 300% TP. Now you're using your 2nd best WS. And since they didn't adjust Drakes AT ALL, it'd didn't even get improved TP scaling.

Anyway. I'm not saying you have to list it as a con. But there is a DPS cost for activating and maintaining AM3. And that's before thinking about the increased game play difficulty due to managing it.

I'm not saying this is an insurmountable problem or anything. And DRG does have it easier than most jobs in regards to AM3. But it's definitely a con. It'd be so much easier if AM3 overwrote.. Hell, imagine if AM3 was just part of the weapon. Equip Ryu and AM3 pops up. o.o Now that'd be a definitive DPS increase.

But again, even with that startup/maintenance cost, AM3 and Ryu are entirely worth it. AM3 also changes play style a bit, and does make play/gear a bit more interesting.
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 19:57:42  
I see what you were getting at clearly now! Thank you again and I'll change that mark also!

I believe Reichleiu may be creating a BLU blurb
DNC ya dynamis purposes.

Martel or anyone else may answer who has done 119 content or above since update (I'm busy at work :/ )

Our wyvern breath attacks I'm guessing are no longer resisted for 119 and above content? So are they doing a steady 350-450+ damage now after each weaponskill? Or is it lackluster?

Thanks!
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 20:26:36  
Hmmm, I have to admit, I haven't really done anything, post update. So I'm not sure about breaths.

They do fire a lot faster now though... I wonder if they're fast enough to swap in breath dmg+ stuff even at high haste now? Before you would inevitably get a melee swing in before the breath fired when at capped haste.

Thinking of it logically. 2 second JA delay post WS. 1 second charge time on breaths, sayeth SE... should be viable? Ought to be tested though.

Gonna mess around with it a bit.
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 20:30:31  
Great!
Let us know your analysis!
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By Highwynd 2014-09-11 20:49:21  
Breaths are doing 370-390 in Incursion, would be doing 480ish with gear but i dont know how to set it up to make it switch after WS
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 20:53:31  
A solid 400-500 Dmg on important content that 119+
That's pretty substantial.

Breath's under Magic Burst probably are doing 700-800.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 20:57:18  
Carbuncle.Legato said: »
A solid 400-500 Dmg on important content that 119+
That's pretty substantial.

Breath's under Magic Burst probably are doing 700-800.
Unfortunately, magic bursts don't increase breath damage. It only boosts the magic acc. :/

A very brief eyeballed account. As Kparser isn't working, and I don't really wanna hand record these.

I'm still seeing resists on 125~128 mobs in woh gates. Not always, like before. But still a fair amount of the time. Still, it's better than it was. And they fire like 3 times faster. I'll get more detailed data once I can parse something.

Capped haste post ws breath testing still pending.
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 21:03:06  
Do you have a offensive breath set attached for after WS Martel?
Or you going off of base breath no gear?
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 21:30:38  
Carbuncle.Legato said: »
Do you have a offensive breath set attached for after WS Martel?
Or you going off of base breath no gear?
I did. But in this case that shouldn't make much difference. Only the lancer's earring is known to affect breath acc. And I can't imagine the value is all that high.

As for post ws swaps.

I loaded timestamp and battlemod(to make the log msg pop up instantly rather than post animation.) And did a number of test ws at 78.75% haste.

In every case, the the breath fired before my next melee hit landed. Also, the gearswap debug msg for pet aftercast always came before melee hits as well. Which is good, because that's the point at which you'd be going back into TP gear.

While this test wasn't absolute, it does look like post ws breath gear should be viable even at high haste values.
[+]
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 21:37:13  
That's Very good to know!
For vanilla players and players who use scripts
Do you believe /wait 1 > wyvern breath set

Will suffice after WS or maybe not?

I can test also when I get home.
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By Highwynd 2014-09-11 21:47:13  
Could you elaborate how to fit it into GS? It worked fine for spellcast with a midcastdelay/aftercast delay thing, but with GS it seems tricky. I can't figure out how to get /Mage healing breath to work either on GS with 1sec timers.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 21:47:35  
Carbuncle.Legato said: »
That's Very good to know!
For vanilla players and players who use scripts
Do you believe /wait 1 > wyvern breath set

Will suffice after WS or maybe not?

I can test also when I get home.
Hmmm. A Wait 1, and a 1 second breath charge time. <,<

I'm not entirely sure. depending on lag, it might be too long. Probably needs testing. I suppose since the wait is probably counted client side, and the ws and wyvern's breath has to go server side, the wait 1 would start first, so should swap to breath gear before the breath fires?

I'd just recommend at least using scripts. Or better yet, spellcast or gearswap. Ideally gearswap, seeing as spellcast is no longer being supported.
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By Highwynd 2014-09-11 21:58:28  
I just tried it out for new players without gearswap. Works flawlessly when I tried it. Try this:




/equipset #<wait0.6>
/pet "Restoring Breath" <me><wait1>
/equipset #

As for getting breaths after WS...

/equipset #<wait0.3>
/ws "Stardiver" <t><wait0.6>
/equipset #


Try those.


If you could provide the code you're using for GS to swap breath gear after WS Martel, I'd love you forever. I've always been a huge proponent of breath gear after WS ^^
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 22:02:03  
Highwynd said: »
I just tried it out for new players without gearswap. Works flawlessly when I tried it. Try this:


/equipset N<wait0.6>
/pet "Restoring Breath" <me><wait1>
/equipset N<wait0.6>

As for getting breaths after WS...

/equipset N<wait0.3>
/ws "Stardiver" <t><wait0.3>
/equipset P<wait0.6>


Try those.
Since when did decimal waits work for FFXI's wait function? Was there an update to that? I rarely use them, so , <,<
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 22:03:36  
Yeah Highwynd I was under the impression that 1 was the lowest value that would work for ingame /wait function.

Are you sure you swapped at all?
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 22:09:21  
iirc when you use a decimal it just defaults to a whole number. Like a wait 0.5 would act like a wait 1.
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By Highwynd 2014-09-11 22:21:36  
Decimals DEFINITELY work.

Try it.

I originally wrote the macro for <wait1> and it felt like an eternity. Shortened it down to 0.6 and it's just the right amount.

This was for the Restoring Breath macro. I didnt try enough with the elemental breath/WS macro yet to confirm.
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 22:22:28  
Lastly the only gear that affects "Wyvern breath" are specifically stated;
"Enhance breath"

Pet: Magic attack / magic accuracy does not affect our wyvern's breath attacks correct?

I'm just trying to confirm before I add in a wyvern behavior blurb.
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 22:23:47  
Well that would make script / vanilla users much more inclined to stay scripts/vanilla if that's true!

Gearswap/Spellcast lose some ground if u can write in decimals.
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By Odin.Rendra 2014-09-11 22:24:54  
I know this guide is new and all and looks like it was created a bit before the latest patch so most of it focuses on /sam i think... is there a new set for /war or is it still the same as when we were subbing /sam?
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By Highwynd 2014-09-11 22:25:58  
Wyvern HP + X
Wyvern: Breath Attack + X
Enhances effect of wyvern's breath

only if it says one of the above 3 will it boost breath; also obviously Item Level main hand weapon increases Wyvern HP which boosts Breath too.
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By Highwynd 2014-09-11 22:28:50  
Well GS is optimal because it works behind the scenes and is much faster and accurate at swapping gear. For FFXI macros, if you have a <wait> but then hit a different macro, it ignores the previous macro. In otherwords if you had a /ma XXX <t> /wait 2 /equip nukeset, if you hit a different macro right after casting, it will ignore the /wait2 and the line to equip the nuke set. I believe GS can run timers in full parallel.
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 22:30:57  
Odin.Rendra said: »
I know this guide is new and all and looks like it was created a bit before the latest patch so most of it focuses on /sam i think... is there a new set for /war or is it still the same as when we were subbing /sam?

The sets that I have posted are currently best in slot for DRG/SAM although they all maintain a 5 hit also for DRG/War Rendra

I am awaiting the DRG spreadsheet to be updated for wyvern/master partnership buff and new items before I update.

Martel is also doing some gear set testing.


Highwynd said: »
Wyvern HP + X
Wyvern: Breath Attack + X
Enhances effect of wyvern's breath

only if it says one of the above 3 will it boost breath; also obviously Item Level main hand weapon increases Wyvern HP which boosts Breath too.


Okay cool so magic accuracy/attack has no effect on wyvern breath.

Good to go !
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By Carbuncle.Legato 2014-09-11 22:32:20  
The guide was created 1 week prior to the September patch, but we kept the September patch in mind while we were creating the gear sets and writing up blurbs.
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By Odin.Rendra 2014-09-11 22:33:16  
No Problem, Thanks
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By Highwynd 2014-09-11 22:36:39  
I'm using Skeero's GS and the only reference to WS is:
Code
function precast(spell,action)
        if spell.type == "WeaponSkill" then


What do I add to that to get the breath gear to go on shortly after ws?


Another part of the script also has this, for restoring/smiting breath:
Code
function aftercast(spell,action)
    if not spell.type:startswith('PetCommand') then
                status_change(player.status)
        elseif not spell.interrupted then
                if spell.type == "WeaponSkill" then
                        send_command('wait 0.2;gs c TP')

Not sure if it's relevant but it also mentions WeaponSkill. I haven't delved too deep into editing GS because I'm a newbie at it.
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2014-09-11 22:38:43  
There are instances of Pet:x gear working on wyverns. The magian Pet: PDT lances did. IIRC the AMK pet DT/Regen augments did as well. Possibly some pet regen too.

Pet:M.ACC, who knows? Magic accuracy is one of the most painful stats you could possibly try to test. <,<;;
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