***...
-lunge acc? why not lunge MAB?Or Lunge recast - ?
-Rune Enchantment Effect: only +2 per merit? The same as WHM barspell merit? this should be 5 per merit at least
-Pflug Effect? Maybe, this sounds intresting
-Gambit Recast? Good, nukers will love it!
-Vallation Effect: (WOOT!? vallation? why not Valiance? WTF SE!!!)
-Job Trait: Inspire?????( PLEASE! valiance and vallation are job abilits! not spells!!!)
-Job Trait: Sword Sleight (desperate blows should me better)
-Job Ability: Battuta( <3 <3 <3 <3)
-Job Ability: Rake(Gambit II? No thanks, I'd rather Lunge II...
[dev1151] Job Adjustments: Rune Fencer
[dev1151] Job Adjustments: Rune Fencer
Odin.Tsuneo said: »
These merits are kind of disappointing.
GEO was pretty terribad too depending no how much HP/MP you get back for blowing up your biodome
Bahamut.Eddea said: »
***...
-lunge acc? why not lunge MAB?Or Lunge recast - ?(Would become *** broken)
-Rune Enchantment Effect: only +2 per merit? The same as WHM barspell merit? this should be 5 per merit at least (they already give you +162 with x3 of the same element)
-Pflug Effect? Maybe, this sounds intresting (Maybe)
-Gambit Recast? Good, nukers will love it! (Awesome people will love it better for Lunge damage)
-Vallation Effect: (WOOT!? vallation? why not Valiance? WTF SE!!!)(Because a magic tank wouldnt like to have more reduced magic damage)
-Job Trait: Inspire?????( PLEASE! valiance and vallation are job abilits! not spells!!!)(But Flash,Foil,Stoneskin,Regen IV,and other useful spells i cant remember are [This ability is the merit equivalent of Rampart,it adds 10% Fast Cast/merit when that ability is used.])
-Job Trait: Sword Sleight (desperate blows should me better)(I agree, this was HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE...)
-Job Ability: Battuta( <3 <3 <3 <3)(BEST ***...EVER!)
-Job Ability: Rake(Gambit II? No thanks, I'd rather Lunge II...)(Lowers resists,which is good for higher tier content that you wont be able to just Gambit->Lunge for 8K...also, if it you can get runes up before gambit wears it'd be GREAT for Lunge damage in general)
-lunge acc? why not lunge MAB?Or Lunge recast - ?(Would become *** broken)
-Rune Enchantment Effect: only +2 per merit? The same as WHM barspell merit? this should be 5 per merit at least (they already give you +162 with x3 of the same element)
-Pflug Effect? Maybe, this sounds intresting (Maybe)
-Gambit Recast? Good, nukers will love it! (Awesome people will love it better for Lunge damage)
-Vallation Effect: (WOOT!? vallation? why not Valiance? WTF SE!!!)(Because a magic tank wouldnt like to have more reduced magic damage)
-Job Trait: Inspire?????( PLEASE! valiance and vallation are job abilits! not spells!!!)(But Flash,Foil,Stoneskin,Regen IV,and other useful spells i cant remember are [This ability is the merit equivalent of Rampart,it adds 10% Fast Cast/merit when that ability is used.])
-Job Trait: Sword Sleight (desperate blows should me better)(I agree, this was HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE...)
-Job Ability: Battuta( <3 <3 <3 <3)(BEST ***...EVER!)
-Job Ability: Rake(Gambit II? No thanks, I'd rather Lunge II...)(Lowers resists,which is good for higher tier content that you wont be able to just Gambit->Lunge for 8K...also, if it you can get runes up before gambit wears it'd be GREAT for Lunge damage in general)
Reducing Lunge recast or adding MAB would hardly be broken.
[+]
Hum... Ive read the info again,
2 resist x 5 per merit x 3 runes would be very nice :D
But for me, they should have enchanced "one for all" and "valiance" :S
2 resist x 5 per merit x 3 runes would be very nice :D
But for me, they should have enchanced "one for all" and "valiance" :S
Siren.Kyte said: »
Reducing Lunge recast or adding MAB would hardly be broken.
A merit ability or trait which enhances DPS would have been welcome...
Subtle Blow? What the heck?
Make it so Rune Enhancement damage rises during Swordplay, Subtle Blow is just pointless.
Subtle Blow? What the heck?
Make it so Rune Enhancement damage rises during Swordplay, Subtle Blow is just pointless.
adding even +50 MAB onto Lunge wouldn't break it. Lunge does like 2k damage (More with Gambit but I don't know where the hell you are getting 8k from unless you're in Abyssea, and nobody cares what you're doing in Abyssea)- it's often not even worth the 8 seconds you would need to put up 3 runes + use Lunge depending on where your haste is at.
It's worse than the WHM one, the WHM one gives magic defense and this gives resistance. +30 resistance with 3 runes is a decent amount, but when's the last time anyone stacked resistance? If RUN was a functional tank I'd probably favor Vallation merits.
Battuta is basically the only standout merit and its duration is too short. Inspire is okay if I want to spam stoneskin or something I guess?
Duration or recast would've been ideal, swordplay's biggest problem is that it lasts too short.
Bahamut.Eddea said: »
The same as WHM barspell merit? this should be 5 per merit at least
It's worse than the WHM one, the WHM one gives magic defense and this gives resistance. +30 resistance with 3 runes is a decent amount, but when's the last time anyone stacked resistance? If RUN was a functional tank I'd probably favor Vallation merits.
Battuta is basically the only standout merit and its duration is too short. Inspire is okay if I want to spam stoneskin or something I guess?
Lyncath said: »
Make it so Rune Enhancement damage rises during Swordplay, Subtle Blow is just pointless.
Duration or recast would've been ideal, swordplay's biggest problem is that it lasts too short.
[+]
"(More with Gambit but I don't know where the hell you are getting 8k from unless you're in Abyssea, and nobody cares what you're doing in Abyssea)" -ROFL!!!
Leviathan.Kincard said: »
adding even +50 MAB onto Lunge wouldn't break it. Lunge does like 2k damage (More with Gambit but I don't know where the hell you are getting 8k from unless you're in Abyssea, and nobody cares what you're doing in Abyssea)- it's often not even worth the 8 seconds you would need to put up 3 runes + use Lunge depending on where your haste is at.
It's worse than the WHM one, the WHM one gives magic defense and this gives resistance. +30 resistance with 3 runes is a decent amount, but when's the last time anyone stacked resistance? If RUN was a functional tank I'd probably favor Vallation merits.
Battuta is basically the only standout merit and its duration is too short. Inspire is okay if I want to spam stoneskin or something I guess?
Duration or recast would've been ideal, swordplay's biggest problem is that it lasts too short.
Bahamut.Eddea said: »
The same as WHM barspell merit? this should be 5 per merit at least
It's worse than the WHM one, the WHM one gives magic defense and this gives resistance. +30 resistance with 3 runes is a decent amount, but when's the last time anyone stacked resistance? If RUN was a functional tank I'd probably favor Vallation merits.
Battuta is basically the only standout merit and its duration is too short. Inspire is okay if I want to spam stoneskin or something I guess?
Lyncath said: »
Make it so Rune Enhancement damage rises during Swordplay, Subtle Blow is just pointless.
Duration or recast would've been ideal, swordplay's biggest problem is that it lasts too short.
10 seconds/rune Gambit lasts 40 seconds. Inspire will be for Flash,Foil,Stoneskin,Aquaveil,and Regen IV im guessing...but lol using Stoneskin and Regen IV on a tank job :<
Batutta is the only definite 5/5 in that category, and the rise in parry rate for a parry dependent phys weak job is great no matter the duration.
as expected GEO will be the jewel of the 2 jobs.
Leviathan.Syagin said: »
as expected GEO will be the jewel of the 2 jobs.
If 5/5 Inspire gives 50% spell casting for all casting, /nin maybe the new tanking sub for RUN. Getting shadows up 50% faster along with 50% faster stoneskin and regenIV should make damage mitigation alot easier.
Was hoping they would do something with swordplay with merit, but guess not. That's really RUN's only signature melee JA.
darthmaull said: »
If 5/5 Inspire gives 50% spell casting for all casting, /nin maybe the new tanking sub for RUN. Getting shadows up 50% faster along with 50% faster stoneskin and regenIV should make damage mitigation alot easier.
It wouldn't be the same blink tanking. You can take the magical damage so that is not an issue. You wouldn't need to have the shadows up all the time. Besides with Stoneskin underneath your shadows, you will take less damage then /war or /pld. Besides I don't know if you have tried /war and tanked but it doesn't work too well. And once you pop Defender, your damage really takes a dump.
darthmaull said: »
It wouldn't be the same blink tanking. You can take the magical damage so that is not an issue. You wouldn't need to have the shadows up all the time. Besides with Stoneskin underneath your shadows, you will take less damage then /war or /pld. Besides I don't know if you have tried /war and tanked but it doesn't work too well. And once you pop Defender, your damage really takes a dump.
I can tell that you have not tried to tank anything over T from what you have said. You cant "tank" in alot of DA/QA/TA gear. You will take too much physical damage. DD that is another story. /pld is even worst. Subs Ive tried are /dnc, /war, /pld, /sch, /blu, /nin and /rdm. For being able to even somewhat survive while "tanking" only /nin, /dnc and /sch have been doable. /war you take too much damage and cant cure yourself sufficiently. Same for /pld. /blu is fun but you run out of mp too quickly. /rdm feels like i'm more of a caster then a "tank". /sch is ok but /dnc and /nin just work better. I personally prefer /dnc due to the easy cures and the ability to get rid of enfeebles and stun.
darthmaull said: »
I can tell that you have not tried to tank anything over T from what you have said. You cant "tank" in alot of DA/QA/TA gear. You will take too much physical damage. DD that is another story. /pld is even worst. Subs Ive tried are /dnc, /war, /pld, /sch, /blu, /nin and /rdm. For being able to even somewhat survive while "tanking" only /nin, /dnc and /sch have been doable. /war you take too much damage and cant cure yourself sufficiently. Same for /pld. /blu is fun but you run out of mp too quickly. /rdm feels like i'm more of a caster then a "tank". /sch is ok but /dnc and /nin just work better. I personally prefer /dnc due to the easy cures and the ability to get rid of enfeebles and stun.
Heres the thing about RUN, its weak physically so if you're going /war you NEED a PDT set and competent healers/Regen V. if you really want to "Tank" you need to do as the job is intended, which means to deal damage and use the abilities. Also, dont go thinking you can tank a MNK because you cant. /WAR provides base DA for a hybrid QA/TA/DA and PDT- set(aswell as a mix of defensive AND offensive traits) while /PLD allows you to go full turtle and gain defensive buffs. If you are going to be an idiot and only go for self cures as basis for "its a viable tank sub" then actually look at how the job tanks and notice that those arent going to be the way it works. Damage,Surviveability against one type,and using gear to counter the weakness to the other type and then use a sub that decreases the physical damage taken while increasing your enmity generation. /RDM would be great for a tanking sub if your cures werent neutered for hate because of all the HP and healing skill/potency RUN gets,the tradeoff being it is *** for MP.
Once the parrying ability comes out you wont want shadows anyway,because you wont need them (even though you DO NOT need them anyway) cause youll be able to stack parry high enough to parry most physical hits.
Ragnarok.Returner said: »
Was hoping they would do something with swordplay with merit, but guess not. That's really RUN's only signature melee JA.
Probably not going to happen if they do af at content level 105. Its less work for them which means most likely that is how its going to be.
If they do augments in the near future it would most likely be done at the inventor's coalition.
Enuyasha, I don't think you understand the concept of tanking that well. Let's take a look at paladin, do you know what its role is nowadays?
- Supertank NM in delve farm - which means stand in a corner doing absolutely nothing.
- Pull the boss - which means train everything and die happily while others fight the boss.
- Tank with rangers - only happens because rangers generates very little enmity.
What it doesn't do is tank with melees, and you know why? Cause it can't do damage. Suggesting that run should sub war with defender or paladin and go full turtle(mind you, this job being on light armor can't even do a capped hybrid)kills the concept of tanking. That's just surviving, and it also doesn't happen without someone supporting. But you know, if you don't kill things, eventually they kill you.
I've been thinking for a while that maybe nin is the sub they intended us to go with since it also matches well with high evasion and parry rate. Really need Swordplay to be up more though, I don't say fulltime(wouldn't mind it..)but yeah, definetely more.
- Supertank NM in delve farm - which means stand in a corner doing absolutely nothing.
- Pull the boss - which means train everything and die happily while others fight the boss.
- Tank with rangers - only happens because rangers generates very little enmity.
What it doesn't do is tank with melees, and you know why? Cause it can't do damage. Suggesting that run should sub war with defender or paladin and go full turtle(mind you, this job being on light armor can't even do a capped hybrid)kills the concept of tanking. That's just surviving, and it also doesn't happen without someone supporting. But you know, if you don't kill things, eventually they kill you.
I've been thinking for a while that maybe nin is the sub they intended us to go with since it also matches well with high evasion and parry rate. Really need Swordplay to be up more though, I don't say fulltime(wouldn't mind it..)but yeah, definetely more.
Quote:
- Supertank NM in delve farm - which means stand in a corner doing absolutely nothing.
- Pull the boss - which means train everything and die happily while others fight the boss.
- Tank with rangers - only happens because rangers generates very little enmity.
What it doesn't do is tank with melees, and you know why? Cause it can't do damage. Suggesting that run should sub war with defender or paladin and go full turtle(mind you, this job being on light armor can't even do a capped hybrid)kills the concept of tanking. That's just surviving, and it also doesn't happen without someone supporting. But you know, if you don't kill things, eventually they kill you.
- Pull the boss - which means train everything and die happily while others fight the boss.
- Tank with rangers - only happens because rangers generates very little enmity.
What it doesn't do is tank with melees, and you know why? Cause it can't do damage. Suggesting that run should sub war with defender or paladin and go full turtle(mind you, this job being on light armor can't even do a capped hybrid)kills the concept of tanking. That's just surviving, and it also doesn't happen without someone supporting. But you know, if you don't kill things, eventually they kill you.
-A good Delve run going towards killing the NM will have the PLD supertanking NMs until the NMs are widdled down to one,then the PLD can face tank it and hold hate as any other fight.
-There should be another way than train and die. Sleeping the adds is possible and then eliminating them is an option (if you have time).
-Tanking with Rangers happens because they plant enmity with Decoy Shot to assist the PLD in tanking the mob so they dont rip with that one WS or whatever they did under decoy.
-Damage is not the only form of hate generation,SE put a fix to most of PLD's enmity generation. It is the playerbase who refuses to revert back to havign a PLD face tank a mob and let the DD's do their job.
-You can put together a decent light hybrid set geared just mainly for PDT. RUN gets a variety of DT- and PDT- peices. I will agree that it lacks a variet of haste and DT- option,but the options themselves are NOT unobtainable in any way.
-PLD may be capable of taking lots of damage and supporting itself, but it is even better with support. RUN, like any job just requires more of a support base and capable ones at that.
-You dont have to kill things, you just have to make sure that you are the one putting out damage to the mobs face enough that your DD's are doing damage consistently enough to kill it for you.
-You also assume that im saying RUN will be tanking everything, it wont it has a specialty that it has an advantage over and it needs to be geared for the area that it does not have an immunity/resistance to.
Lets face it, it isnt the DD everyone was fapping over in the pictures as it unleashed resolution. However, it is NOT a useless job and it CAN do what it is purposed to do if you put effort into it and dont just write it off.
Enuyasha said: »
PLD can face tank it and hold hate as any other fight
Enuyasha said: »
It is the playerbase who refuses to revert back to havign a PLD face tank a mob and let the DD's do their job.
Enuyasha said: »
You can put together a decent light hybrid set geared just mainly for PDT. RUN gets a variety of DT- and PDT- peices. I will agree that it lacks a variet of haste and DT- option,but the options themselves are NOT unobtainable in any way.
Enuyasha said: »
it is NOT a useless job and it CAN do what it is purposed to do if you put effort into it and dont just write it off.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
Enuyasha said: »
PLD can face tank it and hold hate as any other fight
Enuyasha said: »
It is the playerbase who refuses to revert back to havign a PLD face tank a mob and let the DD's do their job.
Enuyasha said: »
You can put together a decent light hybrid set geared just mainly for PDT. RUN gets a variety of DT- and PDT- peices. I will agree that it lacks a variet of haste and DT- option,but the options themselves are NOT unobtainable in any way.
Enuyasha said: »
it is NOT a useless job and it CAN do what it is purposed to do if you put effort into it and dont just write it off.
The focus hasnt shifted massively towards damage as it was, it is a factor but it is not the ONLY factor.
-RUN gets few haste/DT- peices, but the ones it DOES get arent negligible at all. It isnt a full uber DRK hybrid set, but you can get one. Also, there again are other ways to maintain hate besides damage.
***. stay in zergmode and dont actually play the game or try to look at the game as it changes each update. Tojil is obviously a hall in higher tier legion etc. and theres no other possible way to do it than zerg it the *** down. Thats fine, but a PLD could still hold hate on it if they really wanted to/knew how to generate hate.
By the time you put up 3 runes to generate hate the oatixur monk has ws'd twice for double the hate.
Yeah, I'll keep playing in a meaningful way while you waste time with worthless strategies.
Yeah, I'll keep playing in a meaningful way while you waste time with worthless strategies.
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
By the time you put up 3 runes to generate hate the oatixur monk has ws'd twice for double the hate.
Yeah, I'll keep playing in a meaningful way while you waste time with worthless strategies.
Yeah, I'll keep playing in a meaningful way while you waste time with worthless strategies.
Keep calling the idea of RUN being a tank useless and maybe itll be a DRK right? or is that not what you are saying?
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