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[Dev] Matsui: R/M/E/C Follow-up
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サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14552
By Siren.Kalilla 2013-05-22 14:39:31
| 04-26-2013 12:52 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team |  |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
| 05-09-2013 10:15 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator |  |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-09-2013 2:19 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
| 20 |
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Delve (Boss monsters) |
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| 19 |
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| 18 |
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| 17 |
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New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
| 16 |
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| 15 |
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| 14 |
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Delve (NM group 2) |
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| 13 |
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New additions to Skirmish |
| 12 |
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| 11 |
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Delve (NM group 1) |
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| 10 |
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| 9 |
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New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
| 8 |
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| 7 |
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Wildskeeper Reives |
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| 6 |
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Skirmish |
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| 5 |
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Colonization/Lair Reives |
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| 4 |
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| 3 |
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| 2 |
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| 1 |
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| Content Level |
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Up to April 2013 |
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Next version update (currently adjusting) |
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Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
I did not revive this thread for people to argue or cause trouble.
Please behave, or you will be removed from discussion.
| 05-22-2013 09:46 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Matsui: RMEC Follow-up
Hello, it's Matsui.
I'd like to thank you again for your feedback on Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (RMEC). The posts both in favor and opposed to the suggested changes were very helpful.
Since I have thoroughly read through your opinions, at this point we will close this thread and begin development work based on the following policies (even though this is almost the #1 thread).
Perform the adjustments for Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons.
All weapons that have been upgraded to level 99 will be subject to this adjustment (with or without Afterglow).
Instruments and shields will be outside the scope of these adjustments.
The upgrade will not happen in multiple small intervals, like with Trial of the Magians.
The performance of the weapons will be adjusted to allow them to fall into the category of the strongest available options.
We will continue to look into unlocking the exclusive weapon skills from Coin weapons.
For coin weapons, although I think the general idea and direction is good, there is a need for some further analysis, so we will continue to consider these upgrades.
Once we have some more solidified information on upgrades to the RME weapon groups and further studies on the Coin weapons, I will get back to you with more detail.
Thank you very much!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-22-2013 01:15 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Matsui here.
I’d like to once again thank you all for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and coin weapons.
I’ve read over all of the feedback, both for and against, and have taken it into consideration.
As it would appear that pretty much all your feedback has been posted, I will be closing this thread and working on the below plans: (Most of it is from my original post)
Perform revamps on relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.
The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
Shield and instruments will not be included in these revamps.
Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons.
We will continue to look into unlocking the weapon skills from coin weapons further.
In regards to coin weapons, as we are only at the stage where we are considering the basic direction to do this, we will continue to look into this due to the fact that it needs additional scrutiny.
Once we’ve solidified all the plans for the weapon revamps and the result of our discussions for coin weapons, I will be sure to let you all know.
Thank you very much. | |
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9265
By Odin.Eikechi 2013-05-22 14:45:20
So we still have to 99 a coin weapon to get the WS if we don't have the means/time/drive to 99 an empy. Crud lol
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 257
By Fenrir.Hanabira 2013-05-22 14:49:15
Does that mean that relics will get 1 boost, and not boosted again for the next set of omfg weapons?
also, he said he is boosting them so relics are an OPTION, not the best. so i take it that means we can expect lower stats and our 2/2.5x damage to balance it out?
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By Enuyasha 2013-05-22 14:50:10
So they are throwing the consistency of the damage increase from trials idea out the window and jumping from 142 damage to like 300....just cause. Whelp, at least they are doing an update.
BUT, i wouldnt expect one immediately every time they release new delve content thats better :<
[+]
 Cerberus.Tikal
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4947
By Cerberus.Tikal 2013-05-22 14:50:20
Sounds like it Hana. Which means they may have missed the entire point of the criticism.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2013-05-22 14:50:37
What a tease... so many people still just dying to get the stats. He might as well of titled his post "mid-season finale."
By tigroux 2013-05-22 14:50:52
Just the 99 versions?
Not everyone can afford to get their weapons to 99 (or the time). There are not enough mobs that drop riftcinders and riftdrosses as well. Now considering that no one does VW mobs much anymore, when they are available the prices are going up.
Bismarck.Ramyrez
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4746
By Bismarck.Ramyrez 2013-05-22 14:50:58
I'm not even going to lie...despite all the work I put into my relics (made Amano under the old system, Yoichi under the new and multiple weapons both Empy and Relic for the wife under the new systems), a tiny part of me wishes they'd just let REM die.
Otherwise you're looking at people having to go back and KEEP pounding old content to keep their NEW content up to date. Which...even for XI is asking for an awful lot of grind, especially when you consider they want us to be moving forward with new content, not rehashing old stuff over and over.
Unlocking the weaponskills with the coin weapons seems like a really terrible idea to me. It almost pays off to people who were lazier/sub-optimal before and it will just create a glut of people trying to do WOE to get those weaponskills on other weapons. And again...it feels like looking backward.
In my opinion 1) bump up the base damage on REM as they described before so they're on par with new weapons (maybe slightly worse to, again, encourage new content exploration/utilization) 2) let the coin weapons go and just explain they were always sub-optimal and meant as middle-ground gear that gave you some of the power and fun without the extra work, and then 3) move on with releasing new content.
The idea of having to keep going back to do more and more old content to keep my old gear upgraded while also trying to do new content is actually more appalling and daunting to me than starting all over on a new endgame weapon in new content.
 Ragnarok.Zohnax
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-05-22 14:51:47
Quote: The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons. I still don't like this and I think he is still missing the point entirely.
[+]
 Valefor.Sehachan
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-05-22 14:52:26
Delve naakual weapons >= rme > delve points weapons(and possibly skirmish2 ones) > skirmish 1 > time to buy Adoulin.
Ragnarok.Zohnax
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-05-22 14:55:41
Otherwise you're looking at people having to go back and KEEP pounding old content to keep their NEW content up to date. Which...even for XI is asking for an awful lot of grind, especially when you consider they want us to be moving forward with new content, not rehashing old stuff over and over. It would actually be a smart thing to do. If you keep people playing old content, you don't have to worry as much about the next update making or breaking the game. Not to mention, it gives players a semi-consistent way to make money on their own or in small groups. (i.e. Dyna currency, Alexandrite, Plates and Riftcinder/dross). The fact is, they are the ultimate weapons and require the most work, so they deserve to stay on top. BUT that does not mean that other weapons cannot be somewhat comparable, I think that is a good idea.
By Enuyasha 2013-05-22 14:56:31
Quote: The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons. I still don't like this and I think he is still missing the point entirely. I think the playerbase missed the point and immediately raged.
The newer content weapons completely fit into his tiered gear system idea as being the easiest/not really challenging items to get and delve being the harder/most time consuming/most gear requiring items to achieve.
What i would've liked to see if they had done the easiest/most easiest to change later is the increase of the base damage via the trial obtained weaponry. But nope, appease the masses with a onetime fix that isnt backed up in any way.
Ragnarok.Godsmack
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Ragnarok.Godsmack 2013-05-22 14:58:25
Now finally we can trow away our empyrial...
Blade: HI says.. FU!!!
By Enuyasha 2013-05-22 14:59:21
Ragnarok.Godsmack said: »Now finally we can trow away our empyrial...
Blade: HI says.. FU!!! Not yet, they havent decided if they are going to unlock the WS' just yet :<
Ragnarok.Zohnax
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-05-22 14:59:45
Quote: The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons. I still don't like this and I think he is still missing the point entirely. I think the playerbase missed the point and immediately raged.
The newer content weapons completely fit into his tiered gear system idea as being the easiest/not really challenging items to get and delve being the harder/most time consuming/most gear requiring items to achieve.
What i would've liked to see if they had done the easiest/most easiest to change later is the increase of the base damage via the trial obtained weaponry. But nope, appease the masses with a onetime fix that isnt backed up in any way. Is it confirmed then it will be an auto-bump in base damage? Personally, I think R/M/E99 owners should have to tackle another difficult task in order to stay on top and not just be granted instant gratification.
[+]
[+]
By tigroux 2013-05-22 15:00:36
Otherwise you're looking at people having to go back and KEEP pounding old content to keep their NEW content up to date. Which...even for XI is asking for an awful lot of grind, especially when you consider they want us to be moving forward with new content, not rehashing old stuff over and over. It would actually be a smart thing to do. If you keep people playing old content, you don't have to worry as much about the next update making or breaking the game. Not to mention, it gives players a semi-consistent way to make money on their own or in small groups. (i.e. Dyna currency, Alexandrite, Plates and Riftcinder/dross). The fact is, they are the ultimate weapons and require the most work, so they deserve to stay on top. BUT that does not mean that other weapons cannot be somewhat comparable, I think that is a good idea. This ^^
Especially with only upgrading the 99s. Either grind grind grind to make your E/M/R weapon with the upgrade or you are still looking at just saying **** this and dropping it for a delve.
[+]
By Enuyasha 2013-05-22 15:01:38
Quote: The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons. I still don't like this and I think he is still missing the point entirely. I think the playerbase missed the point and immediately raged.
The newer content weapons completely fit into his tiered gear system idea as being the easiest/not really challenging items to get and delve being the harder/most time consuming/most gear requiring items to achieve.
What i would've liked to see if they had done the easiest/most easiest to change later is the increase of the base damage via the trial obtained weaponry. But nope, appease the masses with a onetime fix that isnt backed up in any way. Is it confirmed then it will be an auto-bump in base damage? Personally, I think R/M/E99 owners should have to tackle another difficult task in order to stay on top and not just be granted instant gratification. Quote: Perform revamps on relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.
The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
I took that as meaning "its only the 99's not via the trial stages :< Im a semi-pecimist sometimes :<
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 694
By Sylph.Decimus 2013-05-22 15:02:08
Do people realize the weapons they want to be comparable to r/e/m won't be obtainable by 95% of the playerbase? At least you can grind your way to a relic. Not really a way to do that with Delve bosses. I don't care if r/e/m win outright or are just competitive but keep it in perspective. This doesn't really open up any more opportunities to people unless you're able to complete the content or can buy a craftable weapon from a group that can beat the boss which will likely rival relics in price.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Afania
By Ragnarok.Afania 2013-05-22 15:02:23
Quote: The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons. I still don't like this and I think he is still missing the point entirely. I think the playerbase missed the point and immediately raged.
The newer content weapons completely fit into his tiered gear system idea as being the easiest/not really challenging items to get and delve being the harder/most time consuming/most gear requiring items to achieve.
What i would've liked to see if they had done the easiest/most easiest to change later is the increase of the base damage via the trial obtained weaponry. But nope, appease the masses with a onetime fix that isnt backed up in any way.
Inc another 100 page discussion :)
Ragnarok.Godsmack
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 86
By Ragnarok.Godsmack 2013-05-22 15:04:18
Quote: The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons. I still don't like this and I think he is still missing the point entirely. I think the playerbase missed the point and immediately raged.
The newer content weapons completely fit into his tiered gear system idea as being the easiest/not really challenging items to get and delve being the harder/most time consuming/most gear requiring items to achieve.
What i would've liked to see if they had done the easiest/most easiest to change later is the increase of the base damage via the trial obtained weaponry. But nope, appease the masses with a onetime fix that isnt backed up in any way. The problem is just 1.I will not work 6 month again for get money to buy a relic if I can do a Delve weapon in 6 hours..till im not crazy like Matsui yet.
[+]
Cerberus.Pleebo
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-05-22 15:04:51
Do people realize the weapons they want to be comparable to r/e/m won't be obtainable by 95% of the playerbase? At least you can grind your way to a relic. Not really a way to do that with Delve bosses. I don't care if r/e/m win outright or are just competitive but keep it in perspective. This doesn't really open up any more opportunities to people unless you're able to complete the content or can buy a craftable weapon from a group that can beat the boss which will likely rival relics in price. Matsui's proposed vision involved nerfing previous content levels once newer levels were released. If this is still the plan, then Delve Naakual weapons may become commonplace a few major updates from now.
By Enuyasha 2013-05-22 15:05:02
i'll be nice this time ;A;
By SamuraiCloud27 2013-05-22 15:08:21
It's as I assumed in my last posts before on the other thread, no trial just a straight up buff overnight. VW may be a bit dead atm for plates and stuff but once we see the stats of the 99 it may bring encouragement to get back on it. I'm still going for it, about 1/3 the way with plates so might aswel but saying that it really does depend on how close they are with Current 30k Plasm Weapons... Only time will tell, and for people worried about VW its not only plates and dross/cinder, theres some nice unique gear/weapons aswel, still need the HQ from Uptala -_- :p. All in all, I do agree it's a good thing it's 99 only, it ill actually make R/E/M users stand out more if you think about it.
Ragnarok.Zohnax
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 545
By Ragnarok.Zohnax 2013-05-22 15:10:05
Quote: The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons. I still don't like this and I think he is still missing the point entirely. I think the playerbase missed the point and immediately raged.
The newer content weapons completely fit into his tiered gear system idea as being the easiest/not really challenging items to get and delve being the harder/most time consuming/most gear requiring items to achieve.
What i would've liked to see if they had done the easiest/most easiest to change later is the increase of the base damage via the trial obtained weaponry. But nope, appease the masses with a onetime fix that isnt backed up in any way. Is it confirmed then it will be an auto-bump in base damage? Personally, I think R/M/E99 owners should have to tackle another difficult task in order to stay on top and not just be granted instant gratification. Quote: Perform revamps on relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.
The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
I took that as meaning "its only the 99's not via the trial stages :< Im a semi-pecimist sometimes :< I think the only 99s part is right. But the way they worded how exactly they will be upgraded is unclear. But I guess anything right now about how exactly R/M/E will be upgraded is pure speculation. I just hope it's not, "Update, here's your damage boost."
Bahamut.Sevvy
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 66
By Bahamut.Sevvy 2013-05-22 15:12:45
I am waiting for Tenshibaby to come in and say this is Obama's fault.
By SamuraiCloud27 2013-05-22 15:16:08
Reason I think it is an update boost overnight is because of the word "Revamp" looked it up when I 1st saw it, means Repair, Maintenance or Edit.
Fenrir.Elliott
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 67
By Fenrir.Elliott 2013-05-22 15:28:40
I think the only 99s part is right. But the way they worded how exactly they will be upgraded is unclear. But I guess anything right now about how exactly R/M/E will be upgraded is pure speculation. I just hope it's not, "Update, here's your damage boost."
Really? I sure hope it is.
| 04-26-2013 12:52 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.
What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.
In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.
For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.
Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event. | |
| 05-09-2013 10:15 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Matsui: Follow up on Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin Weapons
Hello, it's Matsui. Thank you for all of your opinions about Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (hereafter, RMEC). They were very helpful.
After reading all of the varied opinions, we have decided that rather than unlocking the weapon skills specific to each weapon, a reworking of RME weapons would be more effective (for coin weapons, more information will be provided later, but we plan to allow these to unlock the dedicated weapon skills).
I have written and reorganized this in various ways and it has become quite lengthy with examples. After you have gotten a chance to look over it, please let us know if you have any further opinions.
Content Level
We received many questions about the parameters of Adoulin equipment. Because this is an important part in order to be able to understand the reworking of RME so you can provide your opinion, please allow me to repeat the explanation for content level and growth in Seekers of Adoulin.
In Adoulin, the basic design is a repeated play cycle where players become stronger and stronger as they align themselves with equipment obtained from challenging content which, in turn, allows them to take on even more challenging content.
By aligning themselves with this equipment, players will continue to grow even without leveling up.
The content level of Adoulin content is set as follows:
[[Info below is much better formatted in a table on the original post.]]
20: Delve (Boss Monsters) (Current)
17: Wildskeeper Reive (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
14: Delve NMs (Tier 2) (Current)
13: Skirmish (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
11: Delve NMs (Tier 1) (Current)
6-9: Colonization / Lair Reives (New Additions) (Next Version Update)
7: Wildskeeper Reive (Current)
6: Skirmish (Current)
1-5: Colonization/Lair Reives (Current)
The strength of the equipment that can be obtained, rather than the level of the equipment, will be dependent on the content level. The equipment to be added later in Adoulin will of course be equippable at level 99, but the level of the equipment parameters would be even higher to match the content level (for example, similar to what level 110 or 120 equipment might look like).
While the strength of the monsters which appear is determined to match the content level, in order to fill out the hierarchy between content to some extent, we have designed monsters of variable strength. The parameters of the equipment that can be obtained in Adoulin is set by determining the parameters that would be necessary to compete with those monsters.
The level of current and planned content is set to minimize the gaps between content level, but we may also insert additional intermediate content if the jump between levels remains too high.
In some cases, content variations will cause content to cover multiple levels. We also plan to enhance the amount of content available horizontally at individual levels, rather than just vertically over the content level range.
The content in the next version update will be added with this in mind.
Referencing the "next version update" items above, it will be possible to add new colonization and lair reive equipment purchasable for Bayld in the level 6~9 range (which currently includes Skirmish and Wildskeeper Reives). In addition, we will be inserting new content at levels 13 and 17.
Also, one part of smoothing out the content level will be adjusted in a maintenance to be carried out of the end of this week: we will be adding a fixed probability to obtain the items needed to enter Skirmishes (Simulacrum Segments) from Lair and Colonization Reives. (This adjustment is unrelated to the current rules associated with coalition assignments, gathering, and Soul Pyres.)
By making this adjustment, the assumed progression will be:
1. First, take on lair and colonization reives.
2. As a result of those battles, obtain Simulacrum Segments.
3. Combine the segments in order to enter Skirmishes.
Reworking RMEC
Please excuse my lengthy explanation above. I'll now return to the topic at hand.
First off, since it is necessary for the development staff to further consider the implementation, we cannot guarantee the timeframe as far as whether it will be included in the next version update.
Regarding the types of parameters that would be reworked, special abilities such as Aftermath and Afterglow will remain, while parameters such as the DMG rating, attack, and accuracy will be set to match the content level post-rework.
Since the parameters will be reworked to become aligned with high content difficulty, we do not intend to rework it in small intervals such as with the previous method of Trial of the Magians.
Prior to now, RME were considered the strongest weapons, so I think there will need to be some change to this viewpoint. For those who have RME, you may not require the other weapons, but there now be a choice among other comparable weapons.
If you are worried about how these weapons will be able to be used, for example, against Delve boss monsters, here are some parameters which we are looking at for the reworking. This is just for RME one-handed swords as an example:
Excalibur
DMG:73 Delay:233 Attack+40
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
to
DMG:121 Delay:233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20
"Knights of Round"
Additional effect: Damage varies with HP
Burtgang
DMG:73 Delay:264 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
to
DMG:131 Delay:264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18
Physical damage taken-18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage
"Atonement"
Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. attacks twice or thrice
Almace
DMG:70 Delay:224 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
to
DMG:114 Delay:224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20
"Chant du Cygne"
Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage
Since coin weapons were originally just intended to be used for Empyrean weapon skills, based on the concept, I believe that instead of reworking them, they can be used to open the dedicated weapon skills (with certain level and job restrictions). We are currently considering the adjustment procedures necessary for this..
In conclusion
I've gone on for a while, so considering the reworking for level 99 Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons as well as the unlocking of dedicated weapon skills via Coin weapons, please let us know your opinions. We will read through your thoughts one by one to make sure we understand your point of view.
Note that this is a large departure from the original plan. Considering the feasibility of scheduling this change, the development may take some time.
I apologize for keeping you waiting on my response.
Thanks in advance!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-09-2013 2:19 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Follow-up: Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Walk of Echoes Weapons
Matsui here.
Thank you all so much for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes weapons. It has helped out tremendously.
After reading over all of your feedback, instead of continuing the growth of these weapons by unlocking the weapon skills that are tied to each of the weapons, I feel it would be better to perform a revamp on RME weapons. (Regarding Walk of Echoes weapons, I will talk about this below, but they will be involved with unlocking the specialized weapon skills.)
I've been reworking a lot, and writing it all up, but it seems the post turned out rather lengthy, so once you have been able to read through it all and digest it we'd love to hear your feedback.
Content Level
We've received a lot of questions about the stats on Adoulin equipment, and I'd like to once again explain about growth and content levels in Seekers of Adoulin as this is a critical aspect in order to receive feedback on the revamps for RME weapons.
The content in Adoulin has been designed with a repeating play-cycle where you challenge content that you are able to at that moment in time, gather equipment, become stronger, and then take on higher tier content which will allow you to gather even stronger equipment.
It's through the procurement of equipment that will allow players to grow and level up.
We've established content levels for Adoulin content as a means to objectively display difficulty benchmarks. The below is a concrete illustration of these content levels.
| 20 |
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Delve (Boss monsters) |
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| 19 |
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| 18 |
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| 17 |
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New Additions to Wildskeeper Reives |
| 16 |
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| 15 |
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| 14 |
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Delve (NM group 2) |
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| 13 |
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New additions to Skirmish |
| 12 |
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| 11 |
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Delve (NM group 1) |
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| 10 |
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| 9 |
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New additions to Colonization/Lair Reives |
| 8 |
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| 7 |
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Wildskeeper Reives |
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| 6 |
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Skirmish |
|
| 5 |
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Colonization/Lair Reives |
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| 4 |
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| 3 |
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| 2 |
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| 1 |
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| Content Level |
|
Up to April 2013 |
|
Next version update (currently adjusting) |
|
Equipment strength is dependent on the level of the content you need to challenge in order to obtain the equipment, not the level in which it can be equipped. With the gear that is released in Adoulin from here on out, they can be equipped at level 99; however, instead of considering these to be level 99 pieces of equipment, it would be better for you to think of their level in terms of the content level (for example, level 110 or level 120).
The strength of the monsters that will be introduced are matched to that of the content level, but since there is somewhat of a solidified hierarchy between content, it's been setup so that the strength can be felt with even one level difference in content level. Oppositely, the parameters on Adoulin equipment have been calculated and set in order to deal with these monsters.
Fundamentally we will be making it so that the content level for content to come in the future continues to become higher, but there may be cases where we fill in areas where there is a large jump in content level as needed.
Also, in order to make it so there are various types of content sprawled across a single content level, we are supplementing it with content variations. We've also designed plans to enable resting periods where we will expand laterally instead of vertically, because players may get burnt out going full steam ahead.
In the next version update we will be adding content focusing on filling in the gaps as well as supplementing with content variation.
In the above chart, please look at the “Next version update (currently adjusting)” column. For content levels 6-9 (Skirmish/Wildskeeper Reives), we will be adding equipment appropriate for these content levels that can be exchanged for Bayld along with new Colonization and Lair Reives. Additionally, we will be filling in content for levels 13 and 17.
For those players who are already able to take on Skirmish, Wildskeeper Reives, and Delve at this point in time, it will not be absolutely necessary to challenge this content, but we will be making the above adjustments in case you want to increase your success rate, or are feeling that the current situation is still a bit tough.
Also, as a plan to resolve the issue where Skirmish is not really connecting the content as was planned, we will be undergoing maintenance at the end of this week and making it so statue segments can be obtained from Colonization and Lair Reives at a set rate. (These adjustments are separate from the rules associated with obtaining these items via Coalition Assignments, HELM, and Soul Pyres.)
By performing these adjustments we envision the below flow:
Challenge Colonization and Lair Reives
Obtain statue segments by participating in these reives
Challenge Skirmish with the parts you have obtained
Weapon Revamps
Sorry, I got off track for a bit, but now I'd like to return to the topic at hand.
To start off, I still need to discuss the implementation period with the rest of the development team, so it will be a bit difficult to address this immediately in the next version update, and we cannot make any promises as to when this will take place.
In regards to the kind of stats that will be added when we revamp these weapons, fundamentally the afterglow and aftermath effects as well as the other special stats will carry over and we'll be setting damage values, attack, and accuracy stats to coincide with the content level.
While the stats will be quite strong, we do not plan on making it possible to continuously enhance them in short intervals like the original method of enhancing via Trial of the Magians.
However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.
I would like to make a shift so that instead of having it so that other weapons aren't necessary if you have RME weapons, you have a choice. If you are happy with RME, then you can use RME, and for those who want other weapons you can use other weapons.
With that said, there may be players who are worried if these weapons will eventually become unusable, but to give an example we had the lead make some calculations for the stats needed to combat the Delve boss monsters, and the below is what the RME swords would look like:
Excalibur
DMG: 73 Delay: 233 Attack+40 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP |
Burtgang
DMG: 73 Delay: 264 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice |
Almace
DMG: 70 Delay: 224 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage |
In regards to Walk of Echoes weapons, these were implemented with the concept of allowing players to use the specialized empyrean weapon skills, so instead of revamping them we felt it more appropriate to have them serve to unlock the weapons skills (planning to have restrictions based on jobs and level). Also, we are looking into adjustments for the method to create Walk of Echoes weapons.
In conclusion…
Apologies that this post is so long, but based on all of the above we would love to hear your feedback on the revamps to level 99 RME weapons and unlocking weapon skills with Walk of Echoes weapons.
I will be sure to read over each and every comment you all post.
My thoughts and ideas have completely turned around the plans that were originally drawn up, and I had to sit and really discuss the idea with the rest of the development team, including the possibilities of making this happen.
I apologize that this response was late and that I made you all wait.
Thank you all very much. | |
I did not revive this thread for people to argue or cause trouble.
Please behave, or you will be removed from discussion.
| 05-22-2013 09:46 AM | | Slycer | | BG Translator | |
| | Matsui: RMEC Follow-up
Hello, it's Matsui.
I'd like to thank you again for your feedback on Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and Coin weapons (RMEC). The posts both in favor and opposed to the suggested changes were very helpful.
Since I have thoroughly read through your opinions, at this point we will close this thread and begin development work based on the following policies (even though this is almost the #1 thread).
Perform the adjustments for Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons.
All weapons that have been upgraded to level 99 will be subject to this adjustment (with or without Afterglow).
Instruments and shields will be outside the scope of these adjustments.
The upgrade will not happen in multiple small intervals, like with Trial of the Magians.
The performance of the weapons will be adjusted to allow them to fall into the category of the strongest available options.
We will continue to look into unlocking the exclusive weapon skills from Coin weapons.
For coin weapons, although I think the general idea and direction is good, there is a need for some further analysis, so we will continue to consider these upgrades.
Once we have some more solidified information on upgrades to the RME weapon groups and further studies on the Coin weapons, I will get back to you with more detail.
Thank you very much!
Translated by: Slycer | |
| 05-22-2013 01:15 PM | | Akihiko Matsui | | Dev Team | |
| | Matsui here.
I’d like to once again thank you all for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and coin weapons.
I’ve read over all of the feedback, both for and against, and have taken it into consideration.
As it would appear that pretty much all your feedback has been posted, I will be closing this thread and working on the below plans: (Most of it is from my original post)
Perform revamps on relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.
The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
Shield and instruments will not be included in these revamps.
Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons.
We will continue to look into unlocking the weapon skills from coin weapons further.
In regards to coin weapons, as we are only at the stage where we are considering the basic direction to do this, we will continue to look into this due to the fact that it needs additional scrutiny.
Once we’ve solidified all the plans for the weapon revamps and the result of our discussions for coin weapons, I will be sure to let you all know.
Thank you very much. | |
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