Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

what? existing delve 119s have 242 skill except for Oatixur

Yep. Seems to effect all hits as long as it's in your main hand. So in this case it's a direct 10% higher resolutions.

Do you have a link to testing? I mean, I'm glad to hear it, but I like to verify information before acting on it. Particularly when large sums of gil are involved.

Because there is a distinct pattern with GS's. They reduce the skill to 228 and supplant it with higher attack.

242 = 242 attack 217 accuracy.

228 = 228 attack 205 accuracy

Notice how all the 228 skill GS's have attack +26 on them, that isn't accidental. You end up swaping 12 acc for 12 attack, which is definitely a bad trade off if your not capped on acc but worthwhile when your over acc cap.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/20765/tunglmyrkvi
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/20764/crobaci-2

The Mes'yohi seems to be the one not following that pattern, though it's likely because it has no additional stats like MAB or augments.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/20770/mesyohi-sword

You also see this with the eminent dagger but in reverse, attack is being trades for attack.

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/20624/eminent-dagger (117)

Same pattern Anahera Sword (119)
http://www.ffxiah.com/item/20734/anahera-sword

So looking at these I'm surmising that it's likely the delve KI GS will be DMG:260 Delay: 480 Skill +228 Attack +26 TA +2~3 MAB +15~20 and then 12~15 of DEX/AGI.

It's those additional stats that make me believe SE is going to be a d!ck about it. Furthermore Delve weapons originally had 0 skill on them and SE used a blanket system of 119=242 with the exception of H2H. Since then they have refined their iLevel distribution where having significant additional stats seems to be justification of making it 228.

And while I'd love SE to give RUN a skill + 242 weapon with the additional stats the Kaquljaan has, I will try to limit my expectations to what their recent patterns point to.

I seems to recall back then fstr didn't account for augmented dmg, only base, is this the case as well for skirmish ?

It seems to function exactly like the Magian WS DMG +% do. I have it on both my Crobaci +2 and Itzasu +2. In the cast of the Itzaasu +2 it only worked when I main handed it and produced damage well outside of expected values on Fast Blade. I didn't do nearly enough to be 100% conclusive, but enough for my own purposes.

Edit:
Just double checked on greater colibri (cause their stats are known exactly) and got a Sickle Moon that was higher then the highest possible if the 10% only effected the first hit.

196 STR with a 268 DMG GS on Sickle Moon. No MA, TP Bonus or +fTP items equipped. 33 fSTR, 33 STR WSC, 29 AGI WSC. Max damage without bonus would be 2142, with 10% applied to first hit would be 2270, both hits would be 2355. Got 2289, 2121, 770 (1TP return), 2286 and 2355.

That's enough for me to have high certainty that it applies to all hits. If anyone wants additional info provide me the conditions and I'll go smack something around. I prefer targets with extremely well known stats so there is minimum chance of mistake.

As to CCL's question about fSTR, I can't remember but the difference on skirmish weapons is very small. 245 caps at 35, 268 caps at 37 and the chances of you capping that on anything worth a damn is incredibly small.

That seems good enough; that's awesome.

I doubt the Delve GS will have less than 242.

Why would they make it the only Delve/REM class weapon, outside of the obvious hth exception, with less than 242 skill?

good to know about the WSD, thanks for testing. puts stuff like sword in the running, too. were all of those done between 100 and 110TP btw?

edit:
hm, just did the maths.

268 + 33 + 33 + 29 = 363

363 * 1.5 = 544, second hit = 363

Maximum value of primary randomizer = 2.625, secondary max = 1.05

544 * 2.625 * 1.05 = 1499

363 * 2.625 * 1.05 = 999

1499 + 999 = 2498 max damage with the stats you listed

It looks like you're using ratio as a multiplier rather than pDIF, which means you're using a randomizer multiplier much lower than the actual maximum. This is also assuming exactly 100TP.

Yep forgot about the random +0.375 that gets tacked onto cRatio, too used to doing that calc for average hits. And yes 100~110 TP, I tried to stay as near to 100 as possible. Just means I gotta go back and smack more birds around unless there is a better test methodology. Thinking about using Resolution for test but then I gotta find a target weak enough to guarantee max cRatio without buffs / food / ect that also has known stats since fSTR wont' be capped. And it's gotta survive all five swings.

@Brain,

I go off SE's pattern and for weapons that RUN can equip they've made one pretty clear. SE seems to consider each weapon category different and treats them accordingly. The original delve 119 weapons can't be used as indicators since they all had 0 skill to begin with and SE has since released many other 119 weapons. Personally I hope I'm wrong and we get a skill +242 mega sword, I'm just not expecting it.

770 1 TP return is from the second hit.

* With 363 base damage, that would be a pDIF of 2.12, which is possible. You'd have a 29% chance of seeing a value of 770 or less in this case.
* With 363*1.1 base damage, that would be a pDIF of 1.93, which is also possible, but . . . . very unlikely. You'd have a 5.5% chance of seeing a value of 770 or less in this case.

pDIF range is (1.8466~2.625)*(1~1.05). In order to get a pDIF value of 1.93, you have to roll low on the initial pDIF value and also low on the secondary randomizer. It is possible and N=1, but I would say that the test leans in the direction of "not applying" rather than "applying."


Alternatively, perhaps you were not Ratio capped. If that's the case then all bets are off.

I'm just saying expecting that based off of 2 examples is kinda off. Out of the 3 GS RUN can equip 2 follow the lower skill 26 atk pattern, and that pattern only applies to 2 out of 5 ilvl 119 GS, two of which existed before RUN was a glimmer in the eye of someone not just writing bad job suggestion threads.

Saying Delve skill models don't count because they originally didn't have skill is also a poor argument because they were released before the ilvl system was implemented.

With equally faulty logic you could say the skill situation may reflect the difficulty of content. AA weapons are pretty easy to get, as are Skirmish weapons, but delve weapons are more difficult, and Mes'Yohi gear comes from the most pain in the *** six man BCNM there is. However that falls apart just as easily because several AA weapons are 242.

You could also try to spin it as SE trying in some assbackwards way to give RUN an edge with GS because they would be least affected by missing ACC, somehow making them better with the sword. That falls apart when you see the one handed sword with lower skill though.

My point is that while you may be right, the argument for a lower skilled delve GS isn't exactly sound, and that goes for any of the other arguments I've heard for lower skill 119s as well.

That's why I want to test more. Anyone have the testing from the magian weapons?

Delve weapons really aren't that hard. Win the zone one time and you can just buy the thing with plasm (or whatever currency might be in the new zones if it's not still plasm).

AAs have pretty bad drop rates below VD, and VD requires very well geared players on very specific jobs. And you may have competition for drops. And it's time consuming to get more merits/KIs and get a new run going if you don't get your drop.

Skirmish isn't hard content, but getting the random KIs can be awfully time consuming to the point where it may take longer than farming plasm to buy a delve weapon.

New GS:

DMG:261 Delay:480 Great Sword skill +242 Parrying skill +242 Magic Accuracy skill +188 Thunder: Attack+25 "Refresh"+1 Critical hit rate +7%

Booo, they were too scared to give it +TA.

Que vize complaining about 119 DELVE GS having D261 and 1/2 Crit rate of 99/119 Ragnarok

I'm interested in whether:

means all of those stats only work in Thunder weather, do they work with Sulpor up, etc.

If you can get a 7% crit rate on weapon by tossing up a thunder rune, that's pretty cool. If not, I'm in no rush to switch from Tungl regardless of the 14 skill difference.

Could always ask a sch to thunderstorm you.

Implying it'd work that way, though.

Yep they not only added two new GS's with skill +242 but also some swords and axe's with skill +242. Ruinator and Requiescat builds just become a lot more interesting. Kinda dumb that the effect only takes place during thunder weather but the other GS is augmentable at least.

Playing around with tanking sets for new Delve, I came up with this:

ItemSet 321031

With PDT-4% + some DD Augment on the feet/legs, it comes out to -50% PDT. This is the best I could come up with without sacrificing TOO much damage since we don't really have any better ways to keep hate outside of Flash/Foil (And I don't know if I missed it somewhere, but has anyone ever figured out exactly how much enmity Foil gives?)

Other possible swaps would be Runeist Trousers +1 for some more protection (status ailment resistance) as long as Iuitl feet are -4% PDT. Did I miss anything glaring? Or would this be the way to go for now? Does anyone know if MDT is multiplicative or additive? For example, if I were wearing Wiglen Gorget (-6% PDT +6% MDT) would that be a total of -10% MDT or -16% DT and +6% MDT?

Qaaxo Legs can get PDT -5% on Path C and all Qaaxo pieces can get PDT -3 with Acc +15 on Path B. Also if you are going to include Umuthi hands (which drop from Delve II boss) you may as well include Futhark Coat +1.

Updated with the assumption of path B on hands and path C on legs, should still be -50% PDT without the use of any new delve gear, which I overlooked. Would require -4% PDT on Iuitl Feet, or you could swap in Qaaxo path B if you used a Dark Ring with -6% PDT.

Ok after smacking around lots of birds I'm now fairly confident that WS DMG doesn't apply to all hits. I can't rule it out entirely but I haven't once been able to hit a high enough resolution and it shouldn't be that hard on a 5 hit WS. I'll be keeping my Crobaci as it currently is because I want to play around with Torcleaver on DRK. Thanks Byrth and Proth for correcting my oversight.

Got the new GS from Marjami delve, Runes dont activate the latent but thunderstorm does.

Sucks.

Disappointing that WSDMG only works on the first hit and that the bird GSword is situationally useful at best. Upgradable delve 119 GS is looking like the best option outside of an extremely well augmented Crobaci, but tbh those 119 axes are really making Ruinator look great for RUN.

p.s., maintaining two guides was too much of an undertaking tbh. If anyone wants editing rights, send me a PM. I'll put on 2 other people to help maintain it. You can put in your own gearsets and what have you since they haven't been updated in ages.

Has anyone found tanking to be at all viable in practice? Are you able to actually keep hate with any competent DDs (or are you going with something like RNG only)? Would love to hear any positive experiences. I honestly found it pretty bad when I last tried shortly after lowman/scaling was added to Delve 1.0. Couldn't hold hate, didn't contribute decent damage, and any extra utility (Valliance, etc.) didn't outweigh the downsides. Found it far better to just come MNK, honestly...

Any other new uses for RUN main (not sub, if a MNK/RUN is better, RUN main is still irrelevant) post-update? Or am I stuck using it for WKR and when friends allow me to come on an inferior job to my better available options, or for non-serious content?

Also... is Ruinator THAT compelling to outweigh RUN's B- axe skill compared to A+ GS (+36 skill) or A Sword (+29 skill)?

for what you'd actually use RUN for atm? sure. it's one of the, if not the, strongest weaponskills in the game. getting some strong weapons to use it with is nice.

Haven't taken RUN into Delve yet, so I can't say for sure, but I've never had problems RUN tanking the WKR's (except of course, Doom and hate reset). Usually I go /SCH, though I've been successful with /DRK for Kumhau since he is very susceptible to Stun (keeping an eye out for the full dispel move Glassy Nova). I do intend to go into Delve in a small man group (probably 4) as RUN at some point, just for the sake of experimenting.

Now granted, WKR combat is radically different from Delve, but I did find it to be good practice for what moves to watch out for. In 18 person alliances, or at least in my experience, a PLD really only ever helped by holding monsters (particularly NMs). The lack of strong damage keeps a tank job from being practical in most of the content because most DD's can do it fine with a well-laid plan, and the real enemy is the battlefield's time limit. Low man groups don't really need a PLD to beat Tojil/Shark/Bee, and if you don't need a PLD, a RUN probably isn't going to be any better. I'm not an expert on Delve though, so I'm sure there's someone here who can provide better insight regarding PLD in Delve. Considering most of the attacks these monsters use are AoE, and the worst are preferably stunned, it doesn't help to have a single guy who can brush it all off when everyone else is exposed to it too.

RUN is kinda spread too thin between DD/tank/utility without any way to really hone in on a single area at a time. I think the job would best benefit from offensive/defensive form abilities (ie: Berserk/Defender, Yonin/Innin, etc) if their properties are useful and potent. Something to increase TP-gain/attack speed, as our only native offensive qualities are Lunge, etc. and the new accuracy bonus.