Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

Can't say that I feel like his answer was in the wrong in any way. Perhaps you are getting a bit too much into your feelings, or letting some outside dispute color this a bit too much?

And the discussion has been Meva vs Resist All, but you seem to have just thrown out the Meva with the Resist All. If I am not mistaken, that was his point. And if that is the case, then yes, *WHOOSH*

With the huge caveat that giving up Staunch/+1 also gives up DT-2%/-3% and SIRD-10%/11%. Staunch is obviously still gonna retain a strong place for RUN, and for most tanking applications is likely to still be the better overall choice even if Yamarang Meva beats it out solely from a status evasion perspective.

LOL I feel a little vindicated in my long time use of Eabani Earring in heavy rotation for general tanking though (never really cared for Odnowa gimping my MP pool and losing some of the HP on casting swaps anyway, and meh Genmei).


Are we sure some of the debuffs you mentioned aren't included? I'm thinking of ones that might not have a native job trait, but which have definitely been included on "Resist [x]" equipment. In particular:

Resist Charm: Unmoving Collar, Wuji Ring, Solemnity Cape, etc.
Resist Curse: Blood Ring, Dawnsoul Ring

There are also several pieces with Death resistance, but I think Death may just be a weird outlier. Plus, none of those pieces actually use the precise phrasing of "Resist Death" in English. I know that English localized item text is far from conclusive proof of anything, but it is suspicious that they don't match the normal syntax of "Resist [trait]". Instead, they say:
- Enhances resistance against "Death" (Eihwaz Ring, Shadow Ring)
- "Death" resistance +10 (Samnuha Coat, Warden's Ring)


Um... no, what Saevel and everyone is saying is that it means when you care about resists you might be better off with Meva pieces, instead of what we are starting to realize may have been overvalued "resist all"/"resist specific debuff" gear. Especially considering that Meva tends to be more valuable when stacked in large amounts.

Whoosh?

While the halved potency on nms is somewhat sad I think people are overestimating how often all those meva pieces will completely be in the very specific range against whatever random nm you are fighting to be increase resists more.

Well then, it's my mistake. I assumed everyone would understand magic evasion+ was going to be among gear priorities when I wrote "physical + magical defense" in my original question.

When in doubt, test!

In the case that we want a simple yes/no for does x work vs y, the required sample sizes are drastically smaller. And a single proc would complete the test. So doing a test good enough to confirm the answer is much easier than trying to test for a value.

The question then becomes, what are the easiest test methods for the statuses in question?

Charm is kinda weird sometimes... some sources of charm can be easily evaded via meva, others not so much. Some are blocked by fealty, and some aren't. There's also charm from Virelei... I think that any test done should confirm that resist charm+ gear works on the test ability/spell before attempting resist all+ and possibly getting a non-applicable test.

Should someone decide they feel like testing, I'd suggest posting in the resist testing thread.

EDIT: Come to think of it... I think I'd like some confirmation on what all Pflug works on as well.

Also have to remember that meva is in terms of hit rate while resist! is in terms of full resist.

In damage we'll take whatever resist we can get but for debuffs there is often little difference between anything that isn't full resist.

So for example say a 2 state enfeeble like sleep let's say the mob had exactly capped 95% hit rate against you. That would be .25% full resist rate. Add 10 meva to go to 85% hit rate would be 2.25% full resist rate

And what about ones with more states? Well we don't have any easy way to determine which ones do since every enfeeble I can think of with a definite duration only can do half resists not counting sdt. About the only way to determine number of stats is to go backwards from capped/floored hit rates. And speaking of which if you go over to the resist testing thread there is a decent amount of data on silence where capped meva gives numbers that line up right with 3 state.

So let's explore 3 state. 95% hit rate would be .0125% full resist rate while 85% hit rate would be .3375% full resist rate.

Now yes I purposefully used the tail edge extreme to show just how small it can be even when not capped/floored. And yes it gets better as the hit rate goes down... until it suddenly does nothing. The point that 1. While yes meva/macc is weighted more at higher hit rates changes in hit rates produce lower changes in full resist rates which sort of balance out until you get to the extremes. 2. While at some points you are getting close to 1% full resist rate for every 1 or 2 meva you never actually reach that amount and it can go much lower so the ranges where it's really good are even narrower.

Lastly we largely don't know if there are ailments with more states. It's been highly suspected that super accurate ones like stun (or at least some forms of stun) are like that again it's hard to determine outside of large resist data sets which we are starting to get in the resist thread but far from complete

Fair enough, but it's useful information that can make some choices easier or more informed. And really, from a RUN perspective there aren't THAT many pieces where it changes a ton of previously accepted thinking.

Eabani Meva+8/HP+40 versus Hearty with half of Resist Status +5%? Seems a lot more likely to lean toward Eabani than what people probably thought a week ago.

Erilaz Gauntlets +1 (Meva+37/resist all status+6) versus Turms/+1 hands with 91/101 Meva? Can't see why you'd use Erilaz, and I'm sure people still had those in their sets.

Even Runeist+3 legs (Meva+99/resist+10/PDT-5%), which most people used for resist sets, might be a little less appealing for pure resist purposes than, say, NQ Turms (Meva+147). Though for that one, you have to consider (edit: a_sess is filtered? lol) the value of additional PDT on AF legs.

Saevel is right too, in that Meva is more valuable when you have a lot of it. So for RUN maybe more than most jobs, it's not that unlikely that you're running into situations where you can make the most of adding Meva. Also relevant for some of the other really high Meva sets for other jobs: Kendatsuba, Inyanga, etc.

Hearty earing is the only piece significantly effected, the other significant Resist All pieces come with MEVD or other useful stats. +10 Resist all gets nerfed to 5% which is still very nice to have if it comes equipped with something else like PDT / MEVD / ect. And yes gearing around MEVD is one of the big differences between RUN and PLD. PLD's tend to just eat the debuffs and rely on the healers removing them, RUN's can flat out ignore them most of the time at the cost of having a lot more buttons to push and shields to maintain.

In the resist testing topic, there was a test on Hearty Earrings that gave them about 4% rate on NMs, so our conception of them being 5% base might be off.

And it's about +/-1% so could easily have been 5. Honestly going to need more data really. Some of them seem to be halved in some of the tests others not as much.

Well Hearty is normally +5% Resist All so 50% reduction is just worst case scenario.

okies everyone,

i've been thinking about trying RUN out what kind of sets does one need for this? the one i hear about the most is hybrid PDT/TP.
i know id need a enmity set what else?

Go back one page, i posted a precast set as an itemset as well as 3 different sets utilized for tanking/damage mitigation. Aside from those you'll want an enmity set, as well as various tp sets (hybrid, and various acc lvls) as well as ws sets.

right on thanks.

It's pretty certain it's base 5%. We need a dobsonfly test to show if it's being nerfed on NMs. Keep in mind it's worded differently than pretty much every other piece that we might use, so it could be treated differently.

Adamas, Killer Shortbow, and a couple ribbons are the only other items with the same wording.

Them being 5% was reported in the official FFXI JP guide that came out several years ago with official numbers for non-trasparent stats like that on Hearty Earring.

Of course it could be an error in that guide, or maybe things are different and only certain items get "adjusted" % when fighting NMs.

Totally agree with all of your general points on this issue, but you might be somewhat underestimating things by saying Hearty is the only piece significantly effected.

Staunch Tathlum and AF legs have other valuable stats, so I'm mostly with you there (but even so, AF legs might not be the best choice if you're totally focusing on Meva/resist builds). Volte set also has strong Meva and resist all on each piece, so that isn't really a bad call even if they aren't BiS Meva gear.

Questionable calls:
Hearty Earring, as you mentioned

Ogma's Cape - the new info gives some doubt on whether to go with Resist All on Resin slot, and at the very least makes that augment a little less appealing than it initially appeared (and that resin augment was largely the impetus for this whole discussion, which started on FFXIAH with WHM cape augment talk)

Erilaz Gauntlets +1 are a no go (but perhaps you were already excluding them from the "significant" category). I was probably just lazily using a really outdated set, but I still had them in my resist set until this whole recent discussion... a better Meva option should be the easy choice here. Turms hands demolish them Meva wise, and even some other more hybrid-y options like Kurys Gloves are probably a better choice. I'll bet the eventual Empy +2/+3 hands will be a strong resist piece though.

I'm interested in how many people are proposing PDT-10 as their new augment on Ogma's. I could be totally out in left field, but from the set combinations I've tried mashing together, it seems so easy to otherwise cap PDT/MDT that it seems like a real shame to miss out on the 5 parrying. I guess I could see swapping in Warder's Charm +1, Engraved belt, and Turms Hands +1 for my set below if I swapped the 5 parrying out for the 10 PDT and started using Erilaz Legs instead and just be 1 PDT shy of full cap? For whatever reason I'm pretty attached to the parrying though, but now that I'm looking at all of the ele resist I could gain it might be worth?

This is my current default idle set while tanking:
Default Tanking Idle Set

PDT -75%, MDT -27% without shell, and incorporates turms leggings+1 and parrying+5 on cape. I'm really thinking about swapping the legs to Erilaz+1 (ugh can't wait for +3) in light of the new status resist testing and seeing what I could fiddle with elsewhere, but I just haven't gotten around to it.

I'm using moonbow cape cause the HP + DT combo is really nice. For pure MEVD I'd go with Ogma's which would have a PDT-10 or Magic Evasion augment, the Resist All augment would only be useful if the RUN couldn't get their MEVD high.


Yeah I wasn't even looking at those cause the effect isn't significant enough and NQ Turms is far better anyway.

Yeah you pretty much explained my rationale - I just think the PDT- aug is so useful in giving you massive flexibility to put together a wide variety of builds that it's a pretty indispensable cape. Gives you so many possibilities for so many different builds/slots, including potentially freeing up neck/waist for Warder's +1/Engraved Belt, Turms hands/feet, possibly grip (if I'm ever doing something where I flip between trying to do some damage and also tank, I'll often just use Utu Grip fulltime), etc. I do tend to use Erilaz+1 legs as my default, but assuming you're doing a parry-heavy build those are good for your use case anyway.

To be fair though, even if you gave up PDT- on cape and that resulted in a build that drops you to PDT-60something%... when Battuta is up, you're probably still gonna feel quite safe against physical damage in the vast majority of situations. So perhaps that's a sacrifice you're willing to make. When Battuta isn't up, I don't like to rely too much on parry for survival anyway, so I wouldn't be using a parry cape in that situation.

Speaking of Cape augments and parry. If resist + gear acts as a resist trait the item is giving us and that trait can be halved on NMs is it fair to assume that Inquartata + gear (as well as JP, etc.) will be halved on NMs, as well? Making Ogma augment 2.5% instead of 5 pushing the choices towards PDT and MEVA even more?

It is absolutely not fair to assume that. It requires testing.

Wasn’t sure it had been tested just like the current topic and I had missed the testing or Bg page but your response answers my question. Looks like Geriond took it upon himself to test in a new topic, as well.

Can anyone recommend an intermediate PDT set between the HQ Turm's sets of the past few pages and the front page set, please? I currently wear the front page set, and need something better to shoot for while I save for the HQ items.

The NQs are fine.

Awesome, thank you!

While the front page still has a lot of wonderful information in it, I would suggest using the community guide on BGwiki for gear selection purposes/goals. It can be incredibly frustrating to be working towards a set just to realize a lot of that time was wasted because it isn't actually up-to-date. AFAIK, these sets are more current and updated more regularly.

RUN Community Collaborative Guide

I've done half of those sets for tanking.. However i've been extremely lazy and not sure i've updated in awhile. But feel free to check my sets on here. Or send me a PM or Discord @ #8109

Is there a hybrid tp/tanking set posted somewhere in this mass of pages? not looking to be a good run on high ilvl (145) endgame stuff, but merely want a for helping out with easier stuff on the off chance that we can't find another tank at the time.

thanks

ambu and herc gear is good for damage, relic and empy gear is good for tanking, pick and choose from those for a hybrid set. also, get the aettir, has pdt- and WS damage + for your hybrid set