IiPunch - Monk Guide

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iiPunch - Monk Guide
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 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-10-11 08:08:45  
ItemSet 366839
Old I was testing.

ItemSet 369018
New set I'll try out later. Unless anyone has better ideas?
I did Adhemar head for crit damage and triple attack over Kendatsuba head because Adhemar has more STR with augment.

Edit: Crit is still going to win over DA and WSD, anyone know?
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By SimonSes 2019-10-11 08:10:09  
On sheet im getting Kendatsuba +1 legs winning significantly, but perfect augment on Herc feet (5%critDamage and +10Str. Actually they win even with no STR, just with 5% crit damage) beats Kendatsuba+1 feet. Kenda body +1 also wins for impetus down slightly. Crit cape slightly wins for impetus down over DA cape, but DA cape wins during Impetus. Begrudging Rign is not even close to Niqmaddu/Gere. Moonshade wins with Brutal for Impetus down, but not for Impetus up.

Also Asuran Fists stats are up in other thread. It was harder to test, but I think I got the right values.
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By eeternal 2019-10-11 08:12:18  
I honestly think stacking DA/TA and spamming RF and or TK is the way to go with Godhands.. if it procs thats 60k+ VS is random
 Siren.Mosin
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By Siren.Mosin 2019-10-11 08:14:51  
that light SC though...
 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-10-11 08:20:16  
SimonSes said: »
On sheet im getting Kendatsuba +1 legs winning significantly, but perfect augment on Herc feet (5%critDamage and +10Str) beats Kendatsuba+1 feet. Kenda body +1 also wins for impetus down slightly. Crit cape slightly wins for impetus down over DA cape, but DA cape wins during Impetus. Begrudging Rign is not even close to Niqmaddu/Gere. Moonshade wins with Brutal for Impetus down, but not for Impetus up.

Also Asuran Fists stats are up in other thread. It was harder to test, but I think I got the right values.

Impetus up
ItemSet 369019
DA cape.

Impetus down
ItemSet 369020
Crit cape

?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-10-11 08:51:42  
Simon do you have an up-to-date spreadsheet with the new FTP carry and base FTP properties for the WS?

Granted it's quite easy to update tbf, but my spreadsheet is so old regardless of that... I'd rather get one that's more up to date.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-11 08:59:52  
Yes exactly that and JSE+2 neck if you cap attack.
Now during Impetus I'm getting 10k DPS with Veret using Vsmite and 9500 DPS with Godhands using RF at 1500TP, so clearly Vsmite is the way to go especially when you take advantage of light SC.
With Impetus down tho, Veret goes down below 8000, while Godhands with RF goes down to only ~8900, so it not so obvious anymore. All those values are higher if you can use JSE+2 neck over gorget and take advantage of +10% PDL (its like +500DPS). RF responds to JSE neck better because it has higher fTP and DEX mod, so it gets less from 0.1fTP on Fotia while also getting +15DEX mod on JSE.

The crown jewel is Godhands with Footwork using Tornado and both for Impetus down or not. Since you want to wear JSE+2 neck always for Tornado (it has + kick damage that beats everything else even without PDL) the following is with taking advantage of PDL from neck. I'm getting 11.5k dps with just footwork and 12.4k when you add Impetus on top of that. So for me its clear that you should split 5min into 3min Vsmite spam with Veret, then 1min Tornado with Godhands, then 1min RF with Godhands and go back to Veret when Impetus is ready again.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-11 09:00:30  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Simon do you have an up-to-date spreadsheet with the new FTP carry and base FTP properties for the WS?

Granted it's quite easy to update tbf, but my spreadsheet is so old regardless of that... I'd rather get one that's more up to date.

I'm in the process of updating it.
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By eeternal 2019-10-11 10:08:45  
Thanks Simon for your efforts..

Any idea hows TK spam with Godhands without footwork nor impetus?
 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-10-11 10:32:56  
ItemSet 369023

Monk with 9,999 HP with Inner strength? It's already overkill. I couldn't think of any good neck/ammo/waist with HP.
Head and body path D
Rest has augments for path with 65HP.
(Worthless, but would be cool to see lol)
 Fairy.Khory
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By Fairy.Khory 2019-10-11 10:33:08  
Asuran fists got any use after the update? Mod is still... meh, but 8 hits with transfering ftp gives it a base of 11fTP (with Fotias) @1k. Is that comparable with lower base but much better mods of VS?

Raging Fists will clearly overtake it as you close to 2k however. Better mods, more fTP and the bonus of being able to proc a double / triple attack.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-10-11 11:06:03  
Asura.Outlawbruce said: »
ItemSet 369023

Monk with 9,999 HP with Inner strength? It's already overkill. I couldn't think of any good neck/ammo/waist with HP.
Head and body path D
Rest has augments for path with 65HP.
(Worthless, but would be cool to see lol)
Other than for the cool screenshots what is the use of "exploiting" Inner Strentgh to bring MNK to 9999k?
Honest question.
Am I missing something or... I dunno?
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-10-11 11:10:15  
Fairy.Khory said: »
but 8 hits with transfering ftp gives it a base of 11fTP (with Fotias) @1k.
Nope, they raised the base fTP, it's no longer 1 at 1k, it's 1.175 and stays the same regardless of TP.
So technically with 2x Fotia you'd be looking at 12.6 fTP at 1k.
Don't think it's worth using over other options for MNKs with Godhands or Verethragna, but for MNKs with Karambit it could have potential.

Think it would still leave Karambit behind other options, but it could close the gap a bit maybe?
That would be an option to spam at 1k.

If you get more TP than that just use Raging/Howling/Tornado, even with Karambit.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-11 11:12:33  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Outlawbruce said: »
ItemSet 369023

Monk with 9,999 HP with Inner strength? It's already overkill. I couldn't think of any good neck/ammo/waist with HP.
Head and body path D
Rest has augments for path with 65HP.
(Worthless, but would be cool to see lol)
Other than for the cool screenshots what is the use of "exploiting" Inner Strentgh to bring MNK to 9999k?
Honest question.
Am I missing something or... I dunno?

You make pug with nooobs and force partial wipe at Kyou at 15%HP left. You wait for people to panic and start typing "stop damage, we need to unweak to survive another Bravado". Then you go in, use some form of stoneskin + Inner Strength and you take bravado on chest and become a hero!
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-10-11 11:16:29  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fairy.Khory said: »
but 8 hits with transfering ftp gives it a base of 11fTP (with Fotias) @1k.
Nope, they raised the base fTP, it's no longer 1 at 1k, it's 1.175 and stays the same regardless of TP.
So technically with 2x Fotia you'd be looking at 12.6 fTP at 1k.
Don't think it's worth using over other options for MNKs with Godhands or Verethragna, but for MNKs with Karambit it could have potential.

Think it would still leave Karambit behind other options, but it could close the gap a bit maybe?
That would be an option to spam at 1k.

If you get more TP than that just use Raging/Howling/Tornado, even with Karambit.
(1.175 + .2) * 8 = 11
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2019-10-11 11:16:53  
monk isn’t on those rings
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By Ricon 2019-10-11 11:23:27  
Sadly those rings can’t be equipped by mnk.
 Fairy.Khory
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By Fairy.Khory 2019-10-11 12:33:52  
"Your survived 9999 damage!!!!"
poke
dead
"Uh... you whm was dead, right?"
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-11 12:44:06  
For raw hp, you would use genmei kabuto, regal captains gloves, and ashera harness. But like I said, inner strength doesn’t last long enough and it’s more useful to use if you know you’re going to be petrified of terror (domain invasion comes to mind) hit with hundred fists or other insanely powerful physical move, or otherwise will die. Since it gives you a 100% guard and counter rate, you can literally never die from a physical attack with it up, provided you are facing forward and it’s not a one shot/throat stab type of move.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-11 12:48:50  
SimonSes said: »
Yes exactly that and JSE+2 neck if you cap attack.
Now during Impetus I'm getting 10k DPS with Veret using Vsmite and 9500 DPS with Godhands using RF at 1500TP, so clearly Vsmite is the way to go especially when you take advantage of light SC.
With Impetus down tho, Veret goes down below 8000, while Godhands with RF goes down to only ~8900, so it not so obvious anymore. All those values are higher if you can use JSE+2 neck over gorget and take advantage of +10% PDL (its like +500DPS). RF responds to JSE neck better because it has higher fTP and DEX mod, so it gets less from 0.1fTP on Fotia while also getting +15DEX mod on JSE.

The crown jewel is Godhands with Footwork using Tornado and both for Impetus down or not. Since you want to wear JSE+2 neck always for Tornado (it has + kick damage that beats everything else even without PDL) the following is with taking advantage of PDL from neck. I'm getting 11.5k dps with just footwork and 12.4k when you add Impetus on top of that. So for me its clear that you should split 5min into 3min Vsmite spam with Veret, then 1min Tornado with Godhands, then 1min RF with Godhands and go back to Veret when Impetus is ready again.

This is interesting. I’m not completely happy with swapping weapons on monk mid fight, so I’ll ask you this instead: what is the difference in dps overall (full five minute cycle) of r15 godhands vs vere? It looks like the drop off from godhands is less steep, so I’m starting to think, overall, godhands can produce more consistent numbers off cycle than vere, making it a more stable choice. What do you think?
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By Pantafernando 2019-10-11 13:10:24  
Asura.Outlawbruce said: »
ItemSet 369023

Monk with 9,999 HP with Inner strength? It's already overkill. I couldn't think of any good neck/ammo/waist with HP.
Head and body path D
Rest has augments for path with 65HP.
(Worthless, but would be cool to see lol)

Regal hands.

Edit: and waist, maybe that gold mog one? That add 3% hp
 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-10-11 13:12:47  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
SimonSes said: »
Yes exactly that and JSE+2 neck if you cap attack.
Now during Impetus I'm getting 10k DPS with Veret using Vsmite and 9500 DPS with Godhands using RF at 1500TP, so clearly Vsmite is the way to go especially when you take advantage of light SC.
With Impetus down tho, Veret goes down below 8000, while Godhands with RF goes down to only ~8900, so it not so obvious anymore. All those values are higher if you can use JSE+2 neck over gorget and take advantage of +10% PDL (its like +500DPS). RF responds to JSE neck better because it has higher fTP and DEX mod, so it gets less from 0.1fTP on Fotia while also getting +15DEX mod on JSE.

The crown jewel is Godhands with Footwork using Tornado and both for Impetus down or not. Since you want to wear JSE+2 neck always for Tornado (it has + kick damage that beats everything else even without PDL) the following is with taking advantage of PDL from neck. I'm getting 11.5k dps with just footwork and 12.4k when you add Impetus on top of that. So for me its clear that you should split 5min into 3min Vsmite spam with Veret, then 1min Tornado with Godhands, then 1min RF with Godhands and go back to Veret when Impetus is ready again.

This is interesting. I’m not completely happy with swapping weapons on monk mid fight, so I’ll ask you this instead: what is the difference in dps overall (full five minute cycle) of r15 godhands vs vere? It looks like the drop off from godhands is less steep, so I’m starting to think, overall, godhands can produce more consistent numbers off cycle than vere, making it a more stable choice. What do you think?
What I want to know does this account for the skill chain damage on smite>smite?
And how was monk R15 vere already hitting 10k DPS(or close to it) before the patch and now still doing the same thing?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-11 13:16:48  
No it doesn't account for skillchains. And smite averages changed very little. It's theoretical, not actual.
And if you don't want to change weapons I'd go full time godhands. Which is reasonable. Changing weapons (mid fight) is really crossing the line for min/maxing.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-10-11 13:22:48  
Asura.Outlawbruce said: »
And how was monk R15 vere already hitting 10k DPS(or close to it) before the patch and now still doing the same thing?

Random crits will stay random. It's better than before, but there is no question Raging Fists, Howling Fist, and Tornado Kick are absurd now with the right buffs, gear, and TP (i.e. bringing a WAR or SMN, Godhands is gonna be absurd). I'm not worried about the max dps of impetus Verethragna, as I know it rips through stuff. I'm concerned with the huge drop off afterwards. Smite is very nice for group content though, since it chains with a lot of popular WS. I would still use it in those, but in a lowman scenario like Omen Boss, idk. Might lean towards Godhands a little. It's not like Verethragna can't use RF/HF/TK anyways. I would be interested in knowing how much the data changes if you swap Smite with one of those 3 during Impetus down. I think that might be one of the lesser of two evils.

Verethragna white damage hasn't changed, so AM3 is still a beast, even with Impetus down. Have to weigh all things.

edit: also, one thing that can't be forgotten with Verethragna is AM2/3. Particularly during those last few ticks of Impetus. You can still manage to pull off one last Victory Smite before the timer expires, and then ride that buff until you resume using Victory smite again. IN the 2 minute off-time, you get the benefit of the ODT, but can swap to a more favorable WS. So while you will lose more DPS vs Godhands, you can retain some of that in white damage until Impetus is ready again. I think buff cycling, including AM, is more important and functional now than ever before, in order to keep the DPS close between weapons.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-10-11 14:06:50  
Asura.Outlawbruce said: »
What I want to know does this account for the skill chain damage on smite>smite?
I'd love to know this as well but SC damage is kinda irrelevant in the majority of situations where you're spamming WSs with other DDs.
Granted Vsmite of course has more chances to open/close random SCs compared to Raging Fists, of course.
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By Asura.Sechs 2019-10-11 14:08:56  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
No it doesn't account for skillchains. And smite averages changed very little. It's theoretical, not actual.
And if you don't want to change weapons I'd go full time godhands. Which is reasonable. Changing weapons (mid fight) is really crossing the line for min/maxing.
I'd love to know the max teoretical DPS of all 3 options though.

1) Vere with Impetus, Godhands when it's down
2) Godhands fulltime
3) Vere fulltime

I think with Vere when Impetus is down you're looking at a different playstyle though, where you're delaying WSs on purpose to gain more TP (and making more use of Vere's AM) and shoot better numbers with those Raging Fists / Tornado Kick.
 Bismarck.Lothoro
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By Bismarck.Lothoro 2019-10-11 15:21:59  
How is Ascetic's Fury post update, still crappy? Is today the day I can finally take Glanzfaust out of my mog safe or does it still lag so far behind the other RMEA options that it's laughable? (Guessing its the latter considering victory smite got so much stronger and the gap between Glanz and Vere/Godhands probably just got even larger).
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-11 15:27:56  
Glanz probably puts out some incredible numbers with aftermath up. This update is all about the multi attack, and nothing says multiattack louder than mythics.

Asura.Sechs said: »
I'd love to know the max teoretical DPS of all 3 options though.

1) Vere with Impetus, Godhands when it's down
2) Godhands fulltime
3) Vere fulltime
Problem is there is a lot of sub categories to your question.
Are you the only DD? Which is optimal, 2 step, 3 step 4 step? spam?
Are you closing skillchains with a group?
Are you spamming because your party doesn't care?
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 Siren.Sandraa
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By Siren.Sandraa 2019-10-11 15:53:01  
I still having some curiosity for godhands during zergs. Any good quality zerg or good quality tp burn usually have a WAR for savagery. Tornado kick & Raging fist scale better with the FTP than VS.

At 2K + impetus up Vere wins that is clear
At 3k + impetus up will be a close-one. VS do not scale good with TP.

Even if everyone knows this: 500 tp-bonus godhands + 250 tp-bonus earring + 700 tp-bonus savagery = 2450 TP on a zerg/High-end TP-burn. You will be mega buffed so the "TP-OVERFLOW" will happen mostly you will be wsing AT 2800-3k most of the time

Using SIMON FTP test

Raging fist at 3k = 3.77 * 5 = 18.85, 22.62 DA, 26.39 TA. VS have higher STAT-mod but the FTP RF at 3k is scary

Tornado kick at 3k = 4.55 * 3 = 13.65, 18.2 DA, 22.75 TA. Footwork + having higher Stat-mod RF.

Victory smite = 1.51 * 4 = 6.04, 7.55 DA, 9.06 TA. The 70 extra STR + 10% VS r15 + most of the hits will be critical + tremendous boost on white-damage.
 Asura.Outlawbruce
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By Asura.Outlawbruce 2019-10-11 16:00:15  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
No it doesn't account for skillchains. And smite averages changed very little. It's theoretical, not actual.
And if you don't want to change weapons I'd go full time godhands. Which is reasonable. Changing weapons (mid fight) is really crossing the line for min/maxing.

Smite averages changed very little? from what I'm seeing. They've changed drastically. Which in turn changed SC damage as well.

Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Outlawbruce said: »
What I want to know does this account for the skill chain damage on smite>smite?
I'd love to know this as well but SC damage is kinda irrelevant in the majority of situations where you're spamming WSs with other DDs.
Granted Vsmite of course has more chances to open/close random SCs compared to Raging Fists, of course.

How I figured these numbers come from just Monk spamming and there aren't other jobs in the mix. All other things aside. I dont see godhands touching the damage of vere if it was a fight where it's only monk tanking and the only DD (of course this is rare).

I keep trying Tornado kicks with Vere. I need to see someone set to see what kind of numbers we can get.

Also, Lothoro. We've been asking for the past couple pages for someone with mythic to go test it out and try new sets lol. Everyone is wanting to know about those.
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