For The Shinies! A Guide For Thief

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For the Shinies! A Guide for Thief
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-06 13:23:09  
I hate when we page.
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
ItemSet 342123

58% Triple attack rate, 41% Triple attack damage bonus, 39% critical hit rate damage bonus. This is my standard TP set and it performs fantastically. If you're facing higher tier content and want some more accuracy you can swap out Adhemar Bonnet +1 for Relic Hat +3. You only get 33% crit damage bonus instead of 39%, but relic hat has 30 more accuracy and attack both than Adhemar, so it's situationally good for a swap. Everything else is pretty much fulltime for a max DPS setup.
DirectX said: »
You advise to lose the STP from Samnhue tights for the extra TA crit dmg?
Depending on the target/rest of the set af+3 is better. When you count the extra 2 TA and 41% damage increase

Samnuha has the STP+7, but af+3 has TA+5 (and some attack that may or may not matter) we kinda talked about it.... a year ago? they were a minor swap back then.
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2019-10-06 13:26:47  
Quote:
You advise to lose the STP from Samnhue tights for the extra TA crit dmg?


You mentioned you didn't have the artifact legs yet after I posted my evisceration numbers, but Artifact legs +3 is both your strongest TP option as well as your best Evisceration leg piece. Yes, I'd swap out Samnhue Tights for Pillager's Culottes +3. Samnuha can only get 3% triple attack rate, whereas our Relic legs have 5%. That extra 2% Triple attack rate is worth approximately 3-5 sTP all by itself. In addition to that, you get 5% crit damage 54 more accuracy, and 21 more attack.

Artifact Legs +3 is just better than max aug Samnuha Tights for standard TP. It's absolutely worth your time to peruse getting it.


Edit: Fixed a thing. Simon pointed out a couple number errors below.
 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2019-10-06 13:31:39  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
outside of extremely niche situations

I'm just saying... I totally agree but savage blade has its uses
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By SimonSes 2019-10-06 13:46:39  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
In addition to that, you get 5% crit damage 54 more accuracy, and 21 more attack.

FTFY
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By DirectX 2019-10-06 15:28:12  
I don't have them yet. I just got enough cards to make them but need to go do the quest for base legs.
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2019-10-06 19:45:29  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »

Here you go.

Thf TP



58% Triple attack rate, 41% Triple attack damage bonus, 39% critical hit rate damage bonus. This is my standard TP set and it performs fantastically. If you're facing higher tier content and want some more accuracy you can swap out Adhemar Bonnet +1 for Relic Hat +3. You only get 33% crit damage bonus instead of 39%, but relic hat has 30 more accuracy and attack both than Adhemar, so it's situationally good for a swap. Everything else is pretty much fulltime for a max DPS setup.

Cheers! I was thinking more max white damage during am3 (eg. when holding for sc or not weaponskilling for another reason), but I guess the only big swaps from the bis tp set would be yetshila +1, maybe a different ear to telos, chiner's +1 perhaps? and 10% crit on the cape. Shijo might be the best offhand for white damage am3 also?
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By SimonSes 2019-10-07 07:21:58  
Shiva.Flowen said: »
I was thinking more max white damage during am3


Well this is what im getting for white damage DPS with AM3 and set posted above but with Yetshila +1 and crit cape and 15%crit from dDEX (those build has around 430DEX+, so you will cap ddex on most things):

a) Shijo with 0 fSTR. This setup has probably slightly below 280STR, while higher lvl apex mobs has around 300VIT, so you wont have positive fSTR. This also require small changes since shijo has 5%DW. You swap belt to Chiner's belt +1 and Telos earring to Eabani.
Overall we have 59%TA rate, +46%TA damage, 46% crit rate and +50% crit damage. That result with 4239DPS (from white damage only)
b) Taming. Here we have Reiki Yotai and Telos (tho in theory you could go for Raider's earring for 1%TA more). Overall stats are 58%TA, +41%TA damage, 42%crit rate and +45% crit damage. Result is 4007DPS

So yeah Shijo is slightly better for white damage. I personally use Gandring in offhand tho. Because when I play THF I usually want TH and with Gandring offhand I only need to swap legs to my Herculean with +2TH to get TH8.

Just to throw some perspective here.
MNK with strongest white damage set and AM3 Veret during Impetus will have anywhere from ~4300 (with floored dDEX, fSTR) to ~5100 white damage DPS (with capped dDEX and fSTR). Theoretical peek for MNK with everything up(Footwork is big part fo this), capped and max Impetus stacks is ~7000, but that will almost never happen and has only 20% up time because of Footwork cooldown.
WAR with floored dDEX and fSTR and white damage build Ukonvasara with AM3 sits at ~5100 white damage DPS. This goes up to ~6200 during Blood rage. If you actually get cap fSTR (which is almost possible on harder enemies if you also use Impact) then during Blood Rage you can get ~7000.

Worth to note that Fighter's roll is huge boost for WAR here, because it caps DA rate and let you switch cape to crit. This result in boosting that ~7000 to ~8000, so you can actually rival some light DD jobs total DPS with just white damage swings.

THF gets huge boost from critical hit rate on the other hand. 11 Rostam CC Rogue roll and/or blood rage can boost that 4239 DPS with Shijo to ~5200-5750

MNK also gets much better boots from Rogue's roll than from fighter's roll, but less than THF actually. With same perfect Rogue's roll white DPS of MNK will jump to ~5600

Another things worth to note is that in above sets you can easily swap WAR's ring to Defending ring loosing almost nothing and you will have -37%PDT -27%MDT in that set, but crap MEVA.

THF has rather crap meva and -10%PDT or -5%DT on cape only.

MNK has crap MEVA, -16%PDT and -6%MDT but the true power of monk here is that you has ability to switch to Kendatsuba 2/5 (feet+head) + 2/5 Malignance(legs+hands), take advantage of additional PDL with standard Chaos+SAM roll and suddenly you have still slightly above 4000 white damage DPS, but very high MEVA, -28%PDT and -18%MDT.

What's the summary for all this? I lose to much time for theory-crafting...
[+]
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2019-10-07 08:42:45  
Quote:
What's the summary for all this? I lose to much time for theory-crafting... ]

I'd put a laugh emoji here if the site supported it. But that's still very good info. Thank you Simon.

Quote:
Cheers! I was thinking more max white damage during am3 (eg. when holding for sc or not weaponskilling for another reason), but I guess the only big swaps from the bis tp set would be yetshila +1, maybe a different ear to telos, chiner's +1 perhaps? and 10% crit on the cape. Shijo might be the best offhand for white damage am3 also?


I've thought about this, but I'm hesitant to agree that swapping out the sTP on the cape for crit rate is a good idea. While the white damage in this TP set is outstanding, my damage split still leans toward a roughly 60/40 to 65/35% ratio favoring weaponskill damage over white damage even when I can maintain aftermath 3 near fulltime. Twashter's aftermath white damage is crazy, and it's awesome seeing melee crits hit for 3500+ damage when aftermath procs on a triple attack round crit, but Rudra's is such a powerful weaponskill that sacrificing sTP for crit rate is just shifting the numbers around. And since we're talking about twashter main here the R15 bonus to rudra's strength is relevant to the conversation. I'm not sure if you'd net an overall increase or decrease in damage, but my gut instinct tells me you'd lose out. Swaping Yamarang for Yetshila +1 I can see, but the cape is a much harder sell.

It's an interesting discussion point though. I'd like to hear what others opinions are on the matter. Little things like this are what I find most interesting in a min/max discussion. And I'm more than willing to change my opinion if someone can make a solid argument otherwise. Would you guys keep the 10 sTP on your tp cape if you were rocking the above white damage build, or would you swap it out for 10% crit rate? I can see the merits in both.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-07 08:58:39  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Rudra's is such a powerful weaponskill

Is it? I would say its only great with tons of tp bonus, otherwise its weak actually. Without Centovente offhand and/or climactic flourish/sneak attack/trick attack, its one of the lowest damage end game WS to spam.
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2019-10-07 09:18:31  
I almost never have any problems getting both a SA and TA Rudra's off every minute. It scales very well, and holding tp for two 2000-2500 Rudra's and throwing in a few 1K weaponskills in between feels like the most effective way to use Twashter in my experience. The only time I can't get off two big weaponskills per minute is when I'm soloing, but I use Tauret for that. When I do group content my white damage is way up there, but an even larger portion of my damage comes from Rudra's.

It's been a long time since I actually measured the ratios though. I think I'll get out Kparser and see just how things are split when I do group stuff. I only got it working last month for the first time in years. Scoreboard is nice for general analysis, but Kparser really allows for finer datamining with the way its data breakdown.
 Asura.Weinberg
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By Asura.Weinberg 2019-10-07 09:19:14  
SimonSes said: »
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Rudra's is such a powerful weaponskill

Is it? I would say its only great with tons of tp bonus, otherwise its weak actually. Without Centovente offhand and/or climactic flourish/sneak attack/trick attack, its one of the lowest damage end game WS to spam.
Rudra has fairly comparable tp scaling to Savage Blade (5.0/10.19/13 vs. 4.0/10.25/13.75) and straight better scaling than Torcleaver (4.75/7.5/9.77). You are right that Rudra/SB become broken when you stack tp bonus items (esp. magian trial +1ktp bonus), but Rudra is not even close to one of the weaker end game WS to spam unless you are ignoring SC damage entirely (even then).

Just imagine if Savage Blade had Light SC property. Rudra is basically that, but slightly weaker ftp scaling, worse WSC mods, and darkness property.
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2019-10-07 09:45:48  
Quote:
Rudra has fairly comparable tp scaling to Savage Blade (5.0/10.19/13 vs. 4.0/10.25/13.75) and straight better scaling than Torcleaver (4.75/7.5/9.77). You are right that Rudra/SB become broken when you stack tp bonus items (esp. magian trial +1ktp bonus), but Rudra is not even close to one of the weaker end game WS to spam unless you are ignoring SC damage entirely.

Just imagine if Savage Blade had Light SC property. Rudra is basically that, but slightly weaker ftp scaling, worse WSC mods, and darkness property.


Pretty much that. When I do group content I always hold TP for two big weaponskills every minute and try to ad-hoc a skillchain. Even when people are spamming weaponskills it's really not that hard to time around people to close a few, and the resulting darkness or occasional distortion piles on the damage. Sneak and Trick attack are our bread and butter abilities, and their synergies with Rudra's at higher TP values and the resultant skillchain potential is absurdley potent. I throw out a few 1k weaponskills in between my big hitters, but it's been worth it for me to save TP to throw out two huge weaponskills per minute in almost all group content. The DPS you lose is more than made up for by that power spike, and if you manage to close a skillchain you've easily come out ahead.

The only time I feel like it's not worth it to save tp for a 2-3k TA and SA Rudra's is if you can't actually land said abilities due to positioning. But with my 3 minute bully timer I can guarantee one in every three sneak attack's will land from any direction, and even when people move I seriously don't find it THAT hard to land most of my trick attacks. Positioning for the extra sneak attacks is also relatively simple. The great thing about Rudra's is how well it scales, and how damage effecient a 2-3k SA or TA Rudra's is, especially with Twashter's R15 bonus.
 Shiva.Flowen
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By Shiva.Flowen 2019-10-07 10:17:47  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
I've thought about this, but I'm hesitant to agree that swapping out the sTP on the cape for crit rate is a good idea. While the white damage in this TP set is outstanding, my damage split still leans toward a roughly 60/40 to 65/35% ratio favoring weaponskill damage over white damage even when I can maintain aftermath 3 near fulltime. Twashter's aftermath white damage is crazy, and it's awesome seeing melee crits hit for 3500+ damage when aftermath procs on a triple attack round crit, but Rudra's is such a powerful weaponskill that sacrificing sTP for crit rate is just shifting the numbers around. And since we're talking about twashter main here the R15 bonus to rudra's strength is relevant to the conversation. I'm not sure if you'd net an overall increase or decrease in damage, but my gut instinct tells me you'd lose out. Swaping Yamarang for Yetshila +1 I can see, but the cape is a much harder sell.

It's an interesting discussion point though. I'd like to hear what others opinions are on the matter. Little things like this are what I find most interesting in a min/max discussion. And I'm more than willing to change my opinion if someone can make a solid argument otherwise. Would you guys keep the 10 sTP on your tp cape if you were rocking the above white damage build, or would you swap it out for 10% crit rate? I can see the merits in both.

I agree, if you're using weaponskills effectively I would keep the store tp to weaponskill faster over the increases in white dmg. I was just thinking of a max white dmg am3 set - Low manning lilith for example I often wait to ws until she has used a tp move to make sure im not animation locked on dark thorn or fatal allure, so wanted a good idea of what top white dmg would be
 Asura.Veikur
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-10-07 10:37:31  
SimonSes said: »
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Rudra's is such a powerful weaponskill

Is it? I would say its only great with tons of tp bonus, otherwise its weak actually. Without Centovente offhand and/or climactic flourish/sneak attack/trick attack, its one of the lowest damage end game WS to spam.
SO Impulse Drive @2000 TP - 4.2+1.4 fTP
Tachi: Fudo - 3.75
Upheaval: 4.0 fTP
Resolution: 4.59375 fTP
Stardiver: 3.8 fTP
Savage Blade: 4.0+1.0 fTP

It's pretty middle of the pack.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-07 10:39:08  
Shiva.Flowen said: »
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
I've thought about this, but I'm hesitant to agree that swapping out the sTP on the cape for crit rate is a good idea. While the white damage in this TP set is outstanding, my damage split still leans toward a roughly 60/40 to 65/35% ratio favoring weaponskill damage over white damage even when I can maintain aftermath 3 near fulltime. Twashter's aftermath white damage is crazy, and it's awesome seeing melee crits hit for 3500+ damage when aftermath procs on a triple attack round crit, but Rudra's is such a powerful weaponskill that sacrificing sTP for crit rate is just shifting the numbers around. And since we're talking about twashter main here the R15 bonus to rudra's strength is relevant to the conversation. I'm not sure if you'd net an overall increase or decrease in damage, but my gut instinct tells me you'd lose out. Swaping Yamarang for Yetshila +1 I can see, but the cape is a much harder sell.

It's an interesting discussion point though. I'd like to hear what others opinions are on the matter. Little things like this are what I find most interesting in a min/max discussion. And I'm more than willing to change my opinion if someone can make a solid argument otherwise. Would you guys keep the 10 sTP on your tp cape if you were rocking the above white damage build, or would you swap it out for 10% crit rate? I can see the merits in both.

I agree, if you're using weaponskills effectively I would keep the store tp to weaponskill faster over the increases in white dmg. I was just thinking of a max white dmg am3 set - Low manning lilith for example I often wait to ws until she has used a tp move to make sure im not animation locked on dark thorn or fatal allure, so wanted a good idea of what top white dmg would be

You can actually make WS and turn before animation register. I do it all the time when Im afraid of stuff like that.
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By DirectX 2019-10-07 11:05:49  
What does the math for Naegling/Centovente on THF say?

Is it better than the best non RMEA daggers?
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By SimonSes 2019-10-07 11:10:04  
Asura.Veikur said: »
SimonSes said: »
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
Rudra's is such a powerful weaponskill

Is it? I would say its only great with tons of tp bonus, otherwise its weak actually. Without Centovente offhand and/or climactic flourish/sneak attack/trick attack, its one of the lowest damage end game WS to spam.
SO Impulse Drive @2000 TP - 4.2+1.4 fTP
Tachi: Fudo - 3.75
Upheaval: 4.0 fTP
Resolution: 4.59375 fTP
Stardiver: 3.8 fTP
Savage Blade: 4.0+1.0 fTP

It's pretty middle of the pack.

Listing it like that w/o modifiers is completely irrelevant even when you forgot about everything else.

I wasnt talking about pure stats tho, when you put those WSs into the vacuum. I was talking about its potential counting in jobs you use it on and items you can use.

Rudra's on paper is good, but first of all it's a dagger weapon skill. You have 128 damage base on R15 Twashtar. You need almost 300 DEX on top of that to even reach base damage of R15 Chango. Then you have 500TP bonus on Chango. You cant really compare WSs without calculating in weapon damage, modifiers and big items you can use for them or even pdif caps of jobs and WS frequency.

Fact is Rudra's is weak to spam. With bis equip with R15 Twashtar/Taming even assuming 250TP overflow it only sits at around 24k damage. Evisceration with Tauret is around 31k for example. Pyrrhic Kleos 30k+

Upheaval, Savage Blade and Resolution are also weak WS on their own at 1000TP, but they are overall good, because you can use Fencer, Savagery, TP bonus gun or Chango to make them much better. Rudra's also has such item and it's called Centovente, but if you decide to not use it for whatever reason, then Rudra goes back to poor WS category imo.

EDIT: MNK is described as having low WS damage, but Final Haven is 24k at 1000TP, Vsmite with Veret during Impetus is around 36k at 1000TP. So how is 36k on Vsmite low and 24k on Rudra high?
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By Asura.Veikur 2019-10-07 11:20:33  
"Well, it's not weak unless you purposefully decide to not use the means to make it good."

That's literally the entirety of this game.

You could use Impulse Drive without Kaja/Shining One, but you'd be monumentally stupid to do so.

You could use any TP scaling weapon skill without Moonshade Earring, but you'd also be monumentally stupid for doing so.

You could spam Torcleaver in full Argosy +1, but you'd still be monumentally stupid for doing so.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-07 11:30:13  
Asura.Veikur said: »
"Well, it's not weak unless you purposefully decide to not use the means to make it good."

That's literally the entirety of this game.

You could use Impulse Drive without Kaja/Shining One, but you'd be monumentally stupid to do so.

You could use any TP scaling weapon skill without Moonshade Earring, but you'd also be monumentally stupid for doing so.

You could spam Torcleaver in full Argosy +1, but you'd still be monumentally stupid for doing so.

Yes exactly and we were discussing scenario when you have white damage setup without Centovente in offhand and that imo makes Rudra drop to poor WS potency. Melphina says that you can wait for 2000-3000TP for SA and TA, but this obviously drops your WS frequency a lot and probably even lower your DPS, unless you close skillchain with that 3000 SA Rudra.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-07 11:32:58  
It's about context. THF isn't there to beat the WAR. It's ws are "high" with sa/ta they're "high" for it's expectation.

People think MNK is there to beat the WAR, it's same damage is low by comparison. THF isn't being compared "unfairly".

(I did NOT say can't or don't beat wars, but you don't take a THF expecting them to be highest DD, yet, MNK is)
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By SimonSes 2019-10-07 11:52:19  
Asura.Eiryl said: »
It's about context. THF isn't there to beat the WAR. It's ws are "high" with sa/ta they're "high" for it's expectation.

People think MNK is there to beat the WAR, it's same damage is low by comparison. THF isn't being compared "unfairly".

(I did NOT say can't or don't beat wars, but you don't take a THF expecting them to be highest DD, yet, MNK is)

That's why I first and foremost compare it to Tauret and Evisceration. If you want to spam WSs on THF and want to have high white damage too, then Tauret/Twashtar also has very nice white damage DPS (Around ~3400 avg on its way to 1000TP and doesn't require AM to be active), while having way better WS to spam. Rudra being weak WS is what holds down Twashtar/notCentovente builds is what I mean.
 Fenrir.Melphina
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By Fenrir.Melphina 2019-10-07 12:57:34  
You don't lose out on DPS with a Twashter/Taming combo by holding TP for 2000-3000 SA and TA Rudra's because the singular large weaponskill's damage is greater than the two smaller weaponskills combined. The linear TP scaling from 1000 to 2000 TP means you only lose out on the equivalent of the weapon's base damage and moonshade bonus only factoring once into the weaponskill whereas they would have otherwise factored in twice. The critical hit makes up for this difference just by being a critical hit alone, but because it applies our critical attack bonuses the net gain for holding TP far exceeds any losses. We get 22% critical attack bonus just from our traits and gifts, then add another 16% from yetshila +1, Pillager's Bonnet +3, and Plunderer's vest +3 and you're up to 38%. And while the TP scaling from the 2000 to 3000 mark is only 60% as effecient as the 1000 to 2000 scaling, it's always going to net you a positive result. The effects of closing a skillchain with such a high weaponskill power only amplifies the difference (this is even more pronounced inside dynamis where the double darkness weather frequently multiplies the darkness skillchain's damage even further).

When my unstacked Rudra's hit for 15K, my stacked rudra's deal roughly 55-60k. When my unstacked rudra's are buffed to the point they do 20-25k, my stacked rudra's are in the 70-80k range. By holding tp my larger weaponskills always overcompensate the difference.

Quote:
It's about context.

Which is fine. The jobs play differently and each has different strengths. It's been said in the Warrior forms that a chango war's damage spread is close to an 80/20% weaponskill to melee ratio, but thief's is closer to a 60/40% or 65/35% spread. Thief is more DPS focused, and it's also not a zerging class. We should never lead a zerg parse when the objective is to kill the mob in 30-45 seconds. That crown goes rightfully to Warrior, Dark Knight, and Samurai. We can still do "good" damage, but because our damage is mainly DPS with two large power spikes every minute we don't have the tools to match Resolution or Upheaval spam. Where thief does excel is content where you can melee almost constantly. Omen bosses that aren't named Kin, most of the escha content, dynamis, and most ambuscades are all good examples. Thief has a high sustained DPS in these events, and the fodder mobs are really just HP sponges so we can do our best work there. With proper gear we can go toe to toe with any other class at these events.
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By SimonSes 2019-10-07 13:51:45  
Fenrir.Melphina said: »
When my unstacked Rudra's hit for 15K, my stacked rudra's deal roughly 55-60k. When my unstacked rudra's are buffed to the point they do 20-25k, my stacked rudra's are in the 70-80k range. By holding tp my larger weaponskills always overcompensate the difference.

You shouldnt compare 2000-3000TP SA Rudra with 1250TP unstacked Rudra, but with 1250 SA Rudra. In which case going from 1250TP to 2250TP is definitely not 2x damage. On top of that Rudra + Darkness is in many cases virtual damage. Mobs in Dynamis wave 1 and wave 2 has 55-65(?)k HP. When you make Rudra + SC (or even SA Rudra without SC) on them it's super overkill and your damage is only there to virtually boost your parse (one of the reasons why Dynamis parses are very misleading, you can hit 60k WS on mob with 1k HP left, when multihit WS will only hit for several k).

So unless you are highly underbuffed, you usually hold TP for those big numbers for no reason. You could SA Rudra for 30k+ much earlier and still kill the mob.

There is also many scenarios where you farm on thf (like Omen) and SA Rudra has only sense on trans mobs for example, because again on trash mobs it's virtual damage.

In both Dynamis and Omen I would Gandring offhand anyway, because again TH+3 on top fo other bonuses is imo better than more damage and whenever I can't Centovente, I would rather use Tauret main. When you want to use Twashtar for damage, then Centovente offhand is far better option than Taming. You will get a massive boost to Rudra's while not loosing much white damage, because Twashtar is ~66% of your white damage anyway when paired with Taming and Centovente also has lower delay, so it supports damage from Twashtar too. You basically drops your white damage from 4000DPS to 3300DPS while your WS damage gets like 50% (maybe more, I dont have time to calculate it now) boost. Now when you can spam Rudra's for 33k+ damage without holding TP, then this WS is much more competitive even with stronger DD jobs.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2019-10-07 14:35:45  
DirectX said: »
I don't have them yet. I just got enough cards to make them but need to go do the quest for base legs.

Friendly reminder that Deeds of Heroism (the cumulative monthly RoE points) can get you AF armor with minimal fuss. Easy to forget, but this is a nice way to avoid a lot of AF-related busywork for situations like yours, or when you might take up a new job.

Only need 70 total points for a full 5/5 set of any job's lv109 AF gear, and individual lv119 AF+1 pieces at 110 (feet), 150 (hands), 190 (head), 230 (legs), 270 (body). AF+2 pieces to come in future months. As of today, someone who has been keeping up with 4/4 Monthly RoE completed every month will be at 240 Deeds.

Rewards are all based on cumulative Deeds (like total Hallmarks rewards in monthly Ambuscade), so you don't have to "spend" points that would take away from the ability to get stuff like shiny weapons.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-07 14:37:37  
Important though, you can only pick 1 set of 109 and 1 set of 119+1 (so far) soon a full set of 119+2

22 20 jobs makes picking pieces possibly difficult. You shouldn't really use it on RUN or GEO... but people do.

Granted... THF is one of worst AF set to get. That gambling game... the bomb... finding climbix. Ugh.
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By Lobivopsis 2019-10-07 16:24:16  
SimonSes said: »
Actually its very hard to die on Easy if you actually take it very safely and simply turn around after each attack round until you see what TP move she is doing, then you can melee a little longer without turning when she does something, then keep turning away when you feel she is about to TP move again.

It's out of your hands if she decides to smack you with that directional AOE that does 1100ish damage (whatever it's called) while you have HP down and then your NPCs are retarded and leave you in red HP long enough for her to do some other high damage attack. That can happen no matter how careful you are.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-10-07 16:25:30  
Proper Trust usage and placement make a world of difference, not just the ones you call but the order you call them, too
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By Lobivopsis 2019-10-07 16:30:44  
SimonSes said: »

EDIT: MNK is described as having low WS damage

I suspect that will no longer be the case after the next update because ajustments to MNK WS are coming and I highly doubt it's to make them weaker.

Asura.Eiryl said: »
Proper Trust usage and placement make a world of difference, not just the ones you call but the order you call them, too

Lilith's normal attacks all have knockback and she summons Guyves on top of you so positioning is a pain in the arse and not as easy as you might think. You try to keep her off the trusts and pointed away from them as best you can careful positioning just ain't happening in that fight.
 Lakshmi.Avereith
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By Lakshmi.Avereith 2019-10-07 16:57:52  
Lobivopsis said: »
Lilith's normal attacks all have knockback and she summons Guyves on top of you so positioning is a pain in the arse and not as easy as you might think. You try to keep her off the trusts and pointed away from them as best you can careful positioning just ain't happening in that fight.
easiest way to deal with that (at least on VE) is wait until she summons 2 (her max on VE, dont know about other difficulties) and then just disengage/run/reengage elsewhere to move all the trusts and yourself easily. Or if you are doing enough dmg it doesn't really matter at all and you just power through it

on E, I've only ever done pup solo, so definitely don't need to resituate there at all
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2019-10-07 17:04:52  
Lobivopsis said: »
SimonSes said: »
Actually its very hard to die on Easy if you actually take it very safely and simply turn around after each attack round until you see what TP move she is doing, then you can melee a little longer without turning when she does something, then keep turning away when you feel she is about to TP move again.

It's out of your hands if she decides to smack you with that directional AOE that does 1100ish damage (whatever it's called) while you have HP down and then your NPCs are retarded and leave you in red HP long enough for her to do some other high damage attack. That can happen no matter how careful you are.
Ygnas is lightning fast at Erases and -na spells; if you use him in addition to another WHM, HP down never gets left on for more than a few seconds unless the battle stretches so long he's out of MP.
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