The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By BlaTheTaru 2016-12-27 15:19:42  
krystale4 said: »
Shiva actualy ; ;

Cant really change servers, got family on here. oh well.


I'm on shiva and I love helping people. I can get you a few easy upgrades if our play times match up. I'm in hawaii standard time though.
 Odin.Miniman
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-27 18:17:29  
Chiming in here as someone who isn't new, but is looking to get back into 2 handed DD's.

What's the most conventional weapon/setup WAR should focus on? You know, just for being useful in general DD scenarios. I'm about to make Rag because I figured that'd be it, but I just want to make sure it isn't something else that I'm missing. I've got all the +1 ambuscade sets so far, as well as a lot of common accessories and some valor/ody stuff from PLD. Any general gearing tips for which HQ abjurations are good or Reisen pieces would be helpful as well. Sorry to add this in, I just hate having to scour random pages of these forums to -maybe- get some up to date info lol.

Also if anyone knows how WAR in general is stacking up to DRK, that'd be helpful as well. I figure Rag is a safe bet in general though. I'm just not really enlightened on the status of 2H DD right now since everyone I know has been using nothing but BLU for like a year now on everything. Well except for this month where RNG apparently rose from the grave lol.
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-12-27 19:12:31  
Odin.Miniman said: »
What's the most conventional weapon/setup WAR should focus on? You know, just for being useful in general DD scenarios. I'm about to make Rag because I figured that'd be it, but I just want to make sure it isn't something else that I'm missing. I've got all the +1 ambuscade sets so far, as well as a lot of common accessories and some valor/ody stuff from PLD. Any general gearing tips for which HQ abjurations are good or Reisen pieces would be helpful as well. Sorry to add this in, I just hate having to scour random pages of these forums to -maybe- get some up to date info lol.

WAR is a "kitchen sink" DD in that it's got a weapon for nearly every situation imaginable. This intense flexibility is what enables WAR to be so potent regardless of what content SE choose's to release. That being said there are two scenarios that largely dominate WAR's DPS roll.

Situation #1: Keep hitting it until it stops twitching, aka zerging
There is nothing better then Ragnarok Resolution spam here, largely backed up with Savagery Boosted Warcry. AG Ragnarok is your best weapon here but only because of it's massive accuracy which gives you larger gear / buff flexibility. Second to AG Rag is a well augmented Zulfiqar. You can get DMG 20+, with lots of accuracy and attack on it.

Situation #2: Killing it by multi-step SC to take advantage of additional SC damage. This situation is more common in lower level CL's that don't focus on mega buffing a few DD's and blowing something up in 60s or less. Great Axe has amazing Skillchain potential though mediocre weaponskill choices. Here is where Conqueror, Ukon and Chango shine with Aganoshe being a solid weapon until you have one of the super GAXE's. Your light SC of choice will be Ukko's Fury (King's Justice) -> Steel Cyclone -> Upheaval -> UF (KG) -> UF / Upheaval. The exact ones you use will depend on your GAXE. Conq is king here though the rest aren't that far behind it and Chango does amazing if you can finish with Radiance.

Those are the two most common situations along with their super weapons and the stand ins. The single biggest mistake I see people do is immediately trying to make a REM but then not having the gear to back it up and just end up sucking badly. Having an AG Rag doesn't mean ***if you don't have the Accuracy, Multi-Attack, JP/Gifts and WS sets to back it up.

For alternate weapons, these are situational.

Polearm StarDiver spam: When the target is weak to piercing and resistant to slashing. Stardiver is exactly like Resolution, you use the same gear sets and it works under the same concept that heavily favors WAR. Blurred Lance is your only real option here but WAR's Warcry, Berserk and Gifts will have you doing some pretty insane damage.

Judgment Fencer Spam: Similar to Polearm spam, target weak to blunt but strong against Slashing. Here you abuse Fencer mechanics with Judgement to cause big numbers to appear on the screen. Loxotic Mace +1 along with Blurred Shield are your weapons of choice, stack lots of +WSD, STR and some accuracy. Judgment has scary TP growth but only at ~1700+ TP, far to high to spam unless your already under a large amount of TP Bonus like what Fencer gives you. With NQ Blurred shield, caped gifts and moonshade you should be at +980 TP Bonus with Warcry giving another 700 for 60s.

Magic Cloud Splitter SC annihilation: This is when the target is weak to magic and your abusing a SC mechanic and Malaise. Cloudsplitter is the Axe version of Leaden Salute / Trueflight except no dSTAT, which actually works in WAR's favor due to it's MAB gear not having a lot of either MND or INT, though dSTR might of been interesting. CS has solid TP growth (Fencer! yay) and deals Thunder magic damage to close both Light and Dark SC's. It's fragmentation/dark so you can link it with a Fusion or Darkness WS. Get a Digirbalag and augment it with Accuracy and maybe some WSD, unless you happen to have an AG Farsha laying around somewhere.

Savage Blade / Mistral Axe Fencer builds are also interesting but pretty rare. I use SB with a Reikiko and HQ Blurred Shield on the Omen Thinker NM because random melee hits won't do a lot of damage compared to a Sword / Great Axe but Savage will still dump out a ton of damage during those windows when it's safe to do so.

Staff has a use in that Shattersoul applies a MDEF -10 and is Gravitation / Induration so easy to open for Dark / Fragmentation. Unfortunately the MDEF Down debuff is water based so water and thunder mobs are pretty much immune to it. Could be useful in theory but in practice I've not found much use for it. Cataclysm AoE farming is interesting, if for some reason Fellcleave isn't viable (not sure when that would be).

Marksmanship + bolts is another theoretically possible but ultimately impractical solution. WAR just use's it's Ammo slot too much and your not landing those on anything you want them landed on.

Dagger is another theoretically possible weapon with Evisceration but the Stardiver build tends to outperform the Evisceration one on piercing weak targets and there isn't much other use for this weapon type.

So there you go, two primary categories with 3 smaller sub categories for various situations. When unfair mechanics screw over other jobs WAR can just reach into it's bag and pull out a solution.

Tank Role: This is super situational and only recommended for advanced players. Retaliation, Bravura, Hybrid DT sets and even Sword or Axe Fencer setups allow a Warrior to actually tank stuff. But unlike RUN and PLD, who spam high enmity abilities, WAR's tank by smashing stuff in the face, meaning you need DD buffs, haste, accuracy mixed with some damage reduction. It's a hard roll to fill because damage becomes weaker as the NM gets higher above you in level, tanking through damage is virtually impossible for stuff CL140 or higher. Bravura makes an interesting appearance because it's got a ton of accuracy, does high damage and it's AM effect is DT -20% making Hybrid DD sets extremely easy to build.
[+]
 Odin.Miniman
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-27 19:30:21  
Much appreciated breakdown. I'll probably just stick to Rag zerging for the time being since this is all a bit overwhelming, plus I run a dualbox so there's always a pocket GEO or COR behind me.

What would you say gearing wise is required to be effective in a Rag build? I can probably get a hold of whatever Reisen or NQ abj gear at a moment's notice. I get from gleaning these pages that HQ abj's seem to be a worthy goal, just curious if they're more of a deal breaker in regards to even using WAR at all; as in should I even bother until I have them?

Anyway, I appreciate your response. I find information hard to gather sometimes and I'm always happy to get advice from other players. It makes my life a whole lot easier lol.
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-12-27 20:15:29  
Odin.Miniman said: »
What would you say gearing wise is required to be effective in a Rag build? I can probably get a hold of whatever Reisen or NQ abj gear at a moment's notice. I get from gleaning these pages that HQ abj's seem to be a worthy goal, just curious if they're more of a deal breaker in regards to even using WAR at all; as should I even bother until I have them?

NQ Argosy is great for Resolution though HQ is the best. Piece by piece extremely well augmented Valorous or Odyssean can beat NQ, HQ requires a practically perfectly augmented piece to beat.

Resolution needs Accuracy, Attack, Strength and Multi-Attack with some TP Bonus thrown in. That's the definition of the HQ Argosy set though NQ and augmented reisen gear can be made to work too.

The WAR vs DRK is kinda touchy lol, WAR has Savagery Warcry which gives +700 TP Bonus and 12% attack bonus to the whole party for 60s.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2016-12-27 20:42:15  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Odin.Miniman said: »
What would you say gearing wise is required to be effective in a Rag build? I can probably get a hold of whatever Reisen or NQ abj gear at a moment's notice. I get from gleaning these pages that HQ abj's seem to be a worthy goal, just curious if they're more of a deal breaker in regards to even using WAR at all; as should I even bother until I have them?

NQ Argosy is great for Resolution though HQ is the best. Piece by piece extremely well augmented Valorous or Odyssean can beat NQ, HQ requires a practically perfectly augmented piece to beat.

Resolution needs Accuracy, Attack, Strength and Multi-Attack with some TP Bonus thrown in. That's the definition of the HQ Argosy set though NQ and augmented reisen gear can be made to work too.

The WAR vs DRK is kinda touchy lol, WAR has Savagery Warcry which gives +700 TP Bonus and 12% attack bonus to the whole party for 60s.

Lets put it this way. I tried JPing DRK next since I have Rag. Honestly I hate the job.

If I want more accuracy from a JA I sacrifice max HP. If I want to deal extra damage I have to lose HP from Soul Eater. I feel like my magic is also useless most of the time because it either slows down tp gain. Or it resists on a majority of monster types/content. Yeah Last Resort is pretty sweet, but Warrior's native double attack makes up for it. Also Berserk stays on almost fulltime (Its down for about 20 seconds).

I'm sitting at about 75% double attack in my tp set. My Resolutions also seem to be a bit lower because on Warrior they reach the 8 hit cap pretty often. Factor in Savagery and it makes me want to drool.

Retaliation is also very powerful imo.

Tomahawk can be situational, but it's nice when you need it.

When Warcry is down you also have Blood Rage which boosts your own crit rate and the entire parties crit rate as well. BLUs will love you because of it.

Hope I didn't offend any DRK mains. Thats just how I feel about the job. It's tough for me to get into.

I ended up picking DRG back up instead of DRK and I don't regret it :S

I'm honestly content with a 6 hit as well. I'm hovering around 75% Double Attack IIRC (Not an exact number)

The crit rate I have is pretty sick too.

ItemSet 348614

Plus Ragnarok aside, WAR has a lot of options regarding different weapons and has some nice survivability with Souveran/Blurred Shield/+1.

With a competent healer you can do something silly like tank Shedu.
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-28 01:23:26  
Looking at NQ Argosy, I'm seeing a pretty big lack of acc. Does it generally get augmented along the path of more acc, or should I try to work in Reisen/Ambuscade pieces for more acc? It looks like (from what I can see) A path is probably what is used and the STR is impressive even on NQ, but again I'm not seeing a lot of acc. Rather I guess what I'm asking is, should I focus more on maintaining high acc over more STR, given NQ just doesn't have both?
 Lakshmi.Konvict
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By Lakshmi.Konvict 2016-12-28 03:43:15  
Odin.Miniman said: »
Looking at NQ Argosy, I'm seeing a pretty big lack of acc. Does it generally get augmented along the path of more acc, or should I try to work in Reisen/Ambuscade pieces for more acc? It looks like (from what I can see) A path is probably what is used and the STR is impressive even on NQ, but again I'm not seeing a lot of acc. Rather I guess what I'm asking is, should I focus more on maintaining high acc over more STR, given NQ just doesn't have both?
Argosy should never be used to TP in, it lacks huge defensive stats. Make it a WS set, is the best for certain WS. Ideally, best TP gear is valorous stuff augmented/odyssean legs/new legs/feet af+3 and either emp head or ambuscade head/hands as well (Depending on your weapon, if Ragnarok ambuscade hands win hands downs).
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2016-12-28 03:47:45  
thats the issue with argosy, decent but not high acc... on acc starved jobs.

Honestly I went with path D on head for that reason. I am at 4/5 HQ and still have issues with acc. However, the extra acc from nq to hq is substantial and reason most will try and get HQ asap.
 Asura.Chiaia
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By Asura.Chiaia 2016-12-28 03:59:19  
Lakshmi.Konvict said: »
Odin.Miniman said: »
Looking at NQ Argosy, I'm seeing a pretty big lack of acc. Does it generally get augmented along the path of more acc, or should I try to work in Reisen/Ambuscade pieces for more acc? It looks like (from what I can see) A path is probably what is used and the STR is impressive even on NQ, but again I'm not seeing a lot of acc. Rather I guess what I'm asking is, should I focus more on maintaining high acc over more STR, given NQ just doesn't have both?
Argosy should never be used to TP in, it lacks huge defensive stats. Make it a WS set, is the best for certain WS. Ideally, best TP gear is valorous stuff augmented/odyssean legs/new legs/feet af+3 and either emp head or ambuscade head/hands as well (Depending on your weapon, if Ragnarok ambuscade hands win hands downs).
I don't think he ever mentioned using it for a TP set :/ It still lacks a ***ton of acc on higher level content for those multi-hit WSes! Hence him asking if he should work in some augmented val/ambu which get alot more acc then NQ argosy.
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-28 04:13:38  
Yeah, I'm speaking mainly here as a WS set for Resolution. It does add impressive amounts of STR compared to most other pieces I have, but it's exceptionally low on acc compared to even ambuscade and moderately augmented Reisenjima sets. Even with the high base DEX and DEX augments along the A paths, I come up 70 acc lower than my TP set if I 4/5 NQ Argosy. I'm not really sure what to expect for damage out of this WS, so I'm not sure if I should just pump it up with acc, or take the hit to raw STR or what.
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-12-28 08:24:29  
Odin.Miniman said: »
Looking at NQ Argosy, I'm seeing a pretty big lack of acc. Does it generally get augmented along the path of more acc, or should I try to work in Reisen/Ambuscade pieces for more acc? It looks like (from what I can see) A path is probably what is used and the STR is impressive even on NQ, but again I'm not seeing a lot of acc. Rather I guess what I'm asking is, should I focus more on maintaining high acc over more STR, given NQ just doesn't have both?

DEX = Accuracy, NQ has 10 DEX each so add 7.5 accuracy plus whatever is on each piece (it has high STR/DEX to start with).

Generally speaking NQ Argosy (Path A) and moderately augmented Reisen gear is about the same effectiveness. Well augmented Reisen gear will beat it but fall short of HQ Argosy. Godly near perfect Reisen gear (STR+10~15 Acc/Atk +25~30 DA+3~5) will beat HQ Argosy in general.

Abjuration gear is a known variable you can control for, Reisen gear is based entirely on SE's RNG being kind to you. Plus NQ Argosy is super cheap so it's no major investment and suitable as a stepping stone gear set until you get the HQ or very well augmented Reisen gear.

Odin.Miniman said: »
Yeah, I'm speaking mainly here as a WS set for Resolution. It does add impressive amounts of STR compared to most other pieces I have, but it's exceptionally low on acc compared to even ambuscade and moderately augmented Reisenjima sets. Even with the high base DEX and DEX augments along the A paths, I come up 70 acc lower than my TP set if I 4/5 NQ Argosy. I'm not really sure what to expect for damage out of this WS, so I'm not sure if I should just pump it up with acc, or take the hit to raw STR or what.

70 sounds extremely low, unless your not counting the +WS Acc from Fotia Belt / Neck. I've got an ungodly level of Accuracy in both TP and WS sets and I'm using 5/5 HQ Argosy (Path A except hands path D).

What kinds of swaps are you doing with your back piece? For me it's STR +20 Acc+30 Atk+20 DA+10 for TP and Reso in base accuracy sets.

Here is TP
ItemSet 342759

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/342759

And Reso

ItemSet 342760

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/342760
 Shiva.Glenise
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By Shiva.Glenise 2016-12-28 08:30:09  
BlaTheTaru said: »
krystale4 said: »
Shiva actualy ; ;

Cant really change servers, got family on here. oh well.


I'm on shiva and I love helping people. I can get you a few easy upgrades if our play times match up. I'm in hawaii standard time though.

Great! I changed my forum name to my char name, so if you see me on when you're on, give me a tell :D.
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By Cerberus.Xinzhiming 2016-12-28 08:47:52  
Which TP set looks better?

Saevel's

ItemSet 342759

or Skarwind's:

ItemSet 348614
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By Fennec 2016-12-28 09:03:38  
Emicho Haubert offers like 52 accuracy before DEX is factored in and a nice amount of double attack with the 5% base and another two percent, iirc, from the set bonus. I feel like the combination of the two is BiS for TP.

Saevel's base TP set is better, but Skarwind's is still acceptable and does just fine. I still use Valorous Body myself,
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By Cerberus.Xinzhiming 2016-12-28 09:19:55  
Fennec said: »
Emicho Haubert offers like 52 accuracy before DEX is factored in and a nice amount of double attack with the 5% base and another two percent, iirc, from the set bonus. I feel like the combination of the two is BiS for TP.

Saevel's base TP set is better, but Skarwind's is still acceptable and does just fine. I still use Valorous Body myself,

I see, thanks!

What's the augments I should be aiming for valorous body? STP + acc? or DA?
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-28 18:37:34  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Odin.Miniman said: »
Looking at NQ Argosy, I'm seeing a pretty big lack of acc. Does it generally get augmented along the path of more acc, or should I try to work in Reisen/Ambuscade pieces for more acc? It looks like (from what I can see) A path is probably what is used and the STR is impressive even on NQ, but again I'm not seeing a lot of acc. Rather I guess what I'm asking is, should I focus more on maintaining high acc over more STR, given NQ just doesn't have both?

DEX = Accuracy, NQ has 10 DEX each so add 7.5 accuracy plus whatever is on each piece (it has high STR/DEX to start with).

Generally speaking NQ Argosy (Path A) and moderately augmented Reisen gear is about the same effectiveness. Well augmented Reisen gear will beat it but fall short of HQ Argosy. Godly near perfect Reisen gear (STR+10~15 Acc/Atk +25~30 DA+3~5) will beat HQ Argosy in general.

Abjuration gear is a known variable you can control for, Reisen gear is based entirely on SE's RNG being kind to you. Plus NQ Argosy is super cheap so it's no major investment and suitable as a stepping stone gear set until you get the HQ or very well augmented Reisen gear.

Odin.Miniman said: »
Yeah, I'm speaking mainly here as a WS set for Resolution. It does add impressive amounts of STR compared to most other pieces I have, but it's exceptionally low on acc compared to even ambuscade and moderately augmented Reisenjima sets. Even with the high base DEX and DEX augments along the A paths, I come up 70 acc lower than my TP set if I 4/5 NQ Argosy. I'm not really sure what to expect for damage out of this WS, so I'm not sure if I should just pump it up with acc, or take the hit to raw STR or what.

70 sounds extremely low, unless your not counting the +WS Acc from Fotia Belt / Neck. I've got an ungodly level of Accuracy in both TP and WS sets and I'm using 5/5 HQ Argosy (Path A except hands path D).

What kinds of swaps are you doing with your back piece? For me it's STR +20 Acc+30 Atk+20 DA+10 for TP and Reso in base accuracy sets.

Here is TP
ItemSet 342759

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/342759

And Reso

ItemSet 342760

http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/342760

So here's what I'm currently using for TP and WS sets. I understand that things just aren't going to work the same until Rag is done, but so far it has been very underwhelming.

TP:

ItemSet 348632

Zulfiqar: +25 DMG, DEX+5, accuracy+22, attack+19
Ody legs: DEX+7, accuracy+20, store TP+8

WS:

ItemSet 348633

I use the same mantle for both TP and WS, the one you listed with 20 STR 30 acc 20 attack and 10 DA.

Both are still rough around the edges as I've just thrown them together from what I had laying around so far. I'm unsure what I'm doing wrong here, as the TP set comes up with as little acc as 1092 unbuffed and the WS set when factoring in the fotia and rufescent comes in around 1049 unbuffed. I know it'll go up a bit with a better body, Rag itself, and all the WAR gifts though. NQ argosy also seems to cut my multihit down by way too much, especially without the body.

Thanks again for helping me work this all out. I never thought it could be so different to gear a 2H DD lol.
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-12-28 19:40:01  
How much JP have you gotten already? WAR gets quite a bit of Accuracy, Attack and various other improvements through gifts.

For WS, the really "strong" NQ Argosy items are Body and Legs because they give STR/DEX/Acc/Atk and DA. Hands / Feet / Head can be replaced with solid augmented Valorous items. For TP set try to use Ginsen or Yetshilla depending on your overall accuracy and target CL.

You are likely suffering from lack of gifts to have accuracy that low unbuffed standing outside MG.
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-28 22:14:47  
Yeah I figured as much. I don't have any gifts thus far, just kind of assessing the situation as to gearing the job. I only count 36 acc from gifts though. I'm not really sure where I'm even supposed to get more of it from other than just rolling the dice on better augments eternally or pawning off an arm and a leg for HQ abj's. Well that or finishing Rag III which seems to be the largest chunk I can add at this rate. Just kind of nervous investing in one when I can't yet see the strength of the job. This is most certainly a higher entry point for a job than I'm used to lol.
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By Asura.Azagarth 2016-12-28 23:22:02  
If your not to impressed with those sets, I doubt rag will change much for you. The acc is very nice, and obviously the AG. However, your gs and gear is good enough atm to really see what the job can do and if you will want to invest into it, imo. I am unsure of your expectations, but drk/war/sam atm top geared are best dd's.
Odin.Miniman said: »
pawning off an arm and a leg for HQ abj's. Well that or finishing Rag III which seems to be the largest chunk I can add at this rate.
honestly w/o do ALL 3, your not going to be very impressive.
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-28 23:55:40  
Asura.Azagarth said: »
If your not to impressed with those sets, I doubt rag will change much for you. The acc is very nice, and obviously the AG. However, your gs and gear is good enough atm to really see what the job can do and if you will want to invest into it, imo. I am unsure of your expectations, but drk/war/sam atm top geared are best dd's.
Odin.Miniman said: »
pawning off an arm and a leg for HQ abj's. Well that or finishing Rag III which seems to be the largest chunk I can add at this rate.
honestly w/o do ALL 3, your not going to be very impressive.

WAR so far just seems very lackluster even compared to BLU. I know people hate hearing that and BLU is flavor of the year for like everything, but when I barely get a Reso to crack low-mid CDC damage on comparable mobs, it's not really inspiring me to invest half a billion gil into an AG relic and HQ set.

I'm not here to trash the job or anything, more I just feel like I'm doing something wrong and I'm trying to understand it better, because I hear about these so called amazing 2H DD's, but I can't seem to make them do anything above mundane damage compared to any of my dual wielding jobs.
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-12-28 23:56:40  
Odin.Miniman said: »
Yeah I figured as much. I don't have any gifts thus far, just kind of assessing the situation as to gearing the job. I only count 36 acc from gifts though. I'm not really sure where I'm even supposed to get more of it from other than just rolling the dice on better augments eternally or pawning off an arm and a leg for HQ abj's. Well that or finishing Rag III which seems to be the largest chunk I can add at this rate. Just kind of nervous investing in one when I can't yet see the strength of the job. This is most certainly a higher entry point for a job than I'm used to lol.

Well NQ Abjurations aren't exactly super high stats lol. That's probably the biggest difference between the HQ and NQ and why decent augmented Valorous can beat NQ. So the short answer is you will need to roll on Augmented Valorous gear and hope for STR/Acc/DA augments for WSing. HQ Argosy isn't too expensive compared to other HQ abjurations, just the body can be painful. Something to look at is NQ Emicho Body / Hands for TPing sets, tons of accuracy along with Store TP and DA.

Ambuscade gear is mostly a placeholder until you get better.
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By Sylph.Cherche 2016-12-29 00:21:57  
If they aren't getting buffed out the ***, they aren't going to see obscene numbers others are claiming.

Best gear in the world pales in comparison to the increase provided by the likes of Idris Fury/Frailty + Fighter/Chaos Rolls.
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-29 00:27:28  
Sylph.Cherche said: »
If they aren't getting buffed out the ***, they aren't going to see obscene numbers others are claiming.

Best gear in the world pales in comparison to the increase provided by the likes of Idris Fury/Frailty + Fighter/Chaos Rolls.

I'm well aware, I'm just saying as an unbuffed comparison.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2016-12-29 00:42:06  
Odin.Miniman said: »
WAR so far just seems very lackluster even compared to BLU. I know people hate hearing that and BLU is flavor of the year for like everything, but when I barely get a Reso to crack low-mid CDC damage on comparable mobs, it's not really inspiring me to invest half a billion gil into an AG relic and HQ set.

I'm not here to trash the job or anything, more I just feel like I'm doing something wrong and I'm trying to understand it better, because I hear about these so called amazing 2H DD's, but I can't seem to make them do anything above mundane damage compared to any of my dual wielding jobs

I felt the same way making the jump from 1h. The issue is this, for Blu to be good you basically just need very easy to get gear, or very inexpensive. Get a free sword (sarama), merc a colada (4m), adhemar hands/body/head, and solo herc legs/feet and now you will have 1200+ acc, hit decently hard on cdcs, and have maxed haste all time.

Now you look at 2h, you need crazy augs AND Hq abj to hit 1200 acc. Thats a big difference and one most player are not willing to put in. There is a reason BLU is the most played DD job, its simply so easy to gear.

This sint to say Blu is better, its to say it takes less effort, but even then an avg blu wont go far in this game either, the usefulness basically falls off at ilv129 nms unless you can really start to gear high end. At that point your blu high end will take equally the same work of a 2h dd. Thats why not everyone can melee kill T4 helms, etc. Just to clarify, if you just want to mess around on mid lv content, blu is very hard to beat. If you plan for High end content where you cant abuse crit hits, then cdc start to fall behind doing 20k~ while you can still keep poping 30k reso's pretty consistent. This is why you will see most blus start doing Savage Blade in endgame.

But to quickly answer you, sadly yes, any 2h DD right now will take around 500m (REAM+certain HQ abj+ungodly amount of fern stones) if not more to really compete. Once you invest that much though you can start to see they will keep up or surpass most other dds :D
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 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2016-12-29 01:07:04  
Odin.Miniman said: »
Sylph.Cherche said: »
If they aren't getting buffed out the ***, they aren't going to see obscene numbers others are claiming.

Best gear in the world pales in comparison to the increase provided by the likes of Idris Fury/Frailty + Fighter/Chaos Rolls.

I'm well aware, I'm just saying as an unbuffed comparison.
Power levels aren't static across varying levels of buffs/gear. It shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that a hybrid DD can match or beat a more specialized job in low buff situations. CDC is also far better than Reso in these situations. This is less about anything Azagarth mentioned (aside from perhaps accuracy) than it is about 1) crits providing a greater damage increase at low Ratio values, 2) Reso having a slight attack penalty, and 3) 2H DDs needing to abuse their increased Ratio cap in order to pull ahead of 1H jobs. All of that favors CDC, and paired with BLU's utility advantage will naturally push it further ahead unless you have the necessary support to allow WAR to shine.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-12-29 01:24:39  
The real power behind BLU is that it can buff itself while also being able to configure itself for pure DD and thus requiring less buffs to reach acceptable damage. Once you introduce decent buffs WAR can surpass it quickly, "decent" being defined as a source of capped magic haste and Frailty + Dia II. You don't need COR rolls, Honor March or Idri in order to eclipse 1H damage output, just a reliable source of capped magic haste and some stacked defense down. That haste is very important, BLU spammage has made virtually every support player in this game extremely lazy on hasting melee's or reapplying it if it gets dispelled or wears off. With a BLU you can do BLU + GEO + Healer and kill most content CL135 and under, provided you have good gear. If your really good the GEO can be the healer but then you lose out on potent barspells.
 Odin.Miniman
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By Odin.Miniman 2016-12-29 01:38:12  
Trust me, I know all about BLU being good because of its self buffing. My main DD has always been NIN and that haste difference is what makes my 1200 BLU with a couple of coladas just straight up better than my master NIN with AG Kannagi.

That's kind of the whole reason I stared looking at WAR and came here asking these questions, I'd like to gear something else because I'm sick of just BLU day in and day out.

I'm more looking to be immediately useful though, so perhaps I'll do RNG for now and put WAR on the back burner until the day I come into a small fortune. Or maybe I'll just quit for a few. This damn game sometimes, I tell ya.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2016-12-29 01:45:59  
Your experiencing weak play because your JP's are virtually zero, look over WAR's total gifts and it should make perfect sense why that is. You don't need some insane amount of gil, just some augmented valorous gear and an augmented Reisen GAXE / GSWD. People go straight for the super weapon without looking at the supporting gear behind it. BLU is no different <.<
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 Sylph.Oraen
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By Sylph.Oraen 2016-12-29 01:52:03  
WAR actually is one of the better CP jobs. You have access to a metric ton of SC possibilities with all of your different weapons, and Cloudsplitter is an exceptionally strong SC closer. You are also more than capable of functioning as the tank while still contributing heavily to kill-speed. If you're looking for immediate usefulness, it's a great choice for that.

As the game currently stands, no jobs are immediately ready to contribute meaningfully to high-tier content without JPs. Maybe WHM, but even then, they gain quite a nice boost from their gifts. WAR is a very respectable DD, but it does take investment. I wouldn't put the difference between 0 vs 2100 WAR on the same level as 0 vs 2100 BLU, but the benefit from JPs is definitely one of the higher ones.
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