The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos |
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » geigei said: » Is there any content where people start with 3k tp? Cause i'm not doing any. Technically you could in any Escha/Reisenjima fight if you wanted to get wings every time... But that'd be dumb. Or just enter zone, pop regain roll. By the time you get whatever you need from npc and reached pop spot you'd probably be at 3k tp already.
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Afania said: » Quetzalcoatl.Trulusia said: » geigei said: » Is there any content where people start with 3k tp? Cause i'm not doing any. Technically you could in any Escha/Reisenjima fight if you wanted to get wings every time... But that'd be dumb. Or just enter zone, pop regain roll. By the time you get whatever you need from npc and reached pop spot you'd probably be at 3k tp already. You don't have to use wings lol you could just hit a mob for tp before pop, use meditate while you're waiting to gather or use regain roll as suggested. It pretty feasible to start most content with 3000tp and useful to do so when low manning and zerging, especially when there's AM involved So what are your capes looking like?
I did 20DEX/20Attack/20Accuracy/10 Double Attack Next month if they are avail, I'll probably do WSDMG+10, STR+20, and MATK+ for cloud splitter. I figured the DEX was needed since I'm stuck using B rank weapons most of the time. Fenrir.Skarwind said: » I did 20DEX/20Attack/20Accuracy/10 Double Attack I went 20 STR 20 Atk/Acc and 10 DA. It's BiS for TP and Resolution.
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Creecreelo said: » 20 Agi/20 Racc/Att/10 Snapshot for Aggressive Aim build The clear choice. Ragnarok.Flippant said: » Asura.Airin said: » Have a problem where gear swap will not recognize my sets for ukko's fury and king's justice, I have tried both ways i have seen people do it and it still says equip command cannot be completed. that set does not exist. can anyone help me out here is both ways i had it. sets.precast.WS["Ukko's Fury"] sets.precast.WS['Ukko\'s Fury'] kings justice was tried both ways and same result also. Or if anyone has a full updated gearswap that works i could get that would be helpful also Are you referring to when you use the WS, or when trying to manually equip it via //gs equip in game? The error message you are referring to implies the latter, but there's no reason for you to actually be using this command because your rules should be equipping the set for you automatically. You can check if this is occurring properly by turning showswaps on (//gs showswaps) and using the WS. If you REALLY want to manually equip it using //gs equip, then you have to escape every quote (single or double). In other words: //gs equip sets.precast.WS[\"Ukko\'s Fury\"] I updated the WAR spreadsheet a bit. It's late and I haven't bothered doing serious optimization, but Conqueror's fall is quite striking. Ukon has 1.878 swings/round in the random TP set I threw together. Conqueror with AM3 has 1.956. Mythic AM3, see you later.
What do you guys think are reasonable/useful sets of valorous/odyssean augments? https://www.dropbox.com/s/9akn09pk7rqgb2d/DPS%20Calculator%20-%20War%20160411.xlsx?dl=0 As far as the eternal Ragnarok vs. Ukon debate, I'm going to have to lean in the direction of Ragnarok with the qualification that some situations can favor Ukon. Ukko's benefits from both Blood Rage and Warcry, but Resolution really really benefits from Savagery'd Warcry. Most interesting thing I noticed is that with Warcry up, Ragnarok users should be spamming at 1000 TP. However, without Warcry up Ragnarok users can be lazy and WS whenever they want (below 2500TP) without really hurting their DPS. Restraint actually encourages WSing later and later. This would be great if gearing up to land a big closing WS. It also substantially changes how we'd approach Ragnarok X-hits.
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The only reasonable augment to expect is accuracy +30, everything else is a ***show because you can't lock in augments like with skirmish. Accuracy is pretty much the most important stat right for anything worth discussing and thus without it any other augment becomes nice yet useless. This is also why I favor the abjuration gear over the random augments ones whenever possible, you just can't be sure what your going to get nor if it will be useful or not.
We all want ***like this STR +15 Acc / Atk +40 Store TP +8 But frequently get STR +10 Acc +1 Fast Cast +1 or CHR +1 Acc +35, Atk +31 Cure Received +2 or STR +7 Defense +8 Store TP +8 And so on and so forth. Some people hit the jackpot, I know I did with my feet, but most won't and they will struggle with throwing thousands of stones at gear just to get mediocre augments. Yeah, on Dancer I managed to get TA+4 (max with Fern) and Acc+30 on body/hands/feet, so I was thinking 30 Acc and 1 max fern stat were reasonable.
If so, which sets of augments would be useful to have in the sheet? Acc +30 and either DA or Store TP one under max, depending on that persons build. Personally I favor Store TP because WAR gets so much damn DA, as you discovered, that adding more doesn't provide as much oomph as a solid 5-hit. Once someone has that 5-hit, including 200TP return on Scourge and Ground Strike, then DA and are are really the only stats to add. I was seriously torn between Store TP, DA and Crit for my WAR cape but ultimately settled on DA due to Resolution.
And yeah Conq's AM3 is only sightly useful, it's the enhancement to Berserk that really helps. You put up AM3 because Kings Justice scales with TP and is the first WS in a five step double light chain. King's Justice -> Steel Cyclone -> Upheaval -> Ukko's Fury -> Ukko's Fury Asura.Saevel said: » The only reasonable augment to expect is accuracy +30, everything else is a ***show because you can't lock in augments like with skirmish. Accuracy is pretty much the most important stat right for anything worth discussing and thus without it any other augment becomes nice yet useless. This is also why I favor the abjuration gear over the random augments ones whenever possible, you just can't be sure what your going to get nor if it will be useful or not. We all want ***like this STR +15 Acc / Atk +40 Store TP +8 But frequently get STR +10 Acc +1 Fast Cast +1 or CHR +1 Acc +35, Atk +31 Cure Received +2 or STR +7 Defense +8 Store TP +8 And so on and so forth. Some people hit the jackpot, I know I did with my feet, but most won't and they will struggle with throwing thousands of stones at gear just to get mediocre augments. There are the freak shows who have ACC25-38sh with QA/TA +2-4, I've seen them posing in Mhuara - say what you want about the cluster f#%ck that is Ambuscade, it has at least drawn players to one location and allowed me to see some pretty insane augments on Valarous feet/head/legs. Like I said earlier, I'm not a math cruncher or programer, but couldn't the DPS sheet have an additional row(s) or column(s) with augments to select from, like "QA", "TA", "WS DMG%", "Crit hit rate %", "CHD%", etc? All the player with augmented gear would have to do is add the total values of their set and then replicate on the sheet. This might already be the case, I haven't looked tbh. Blazed1979 said: » Like I said earlier, I'm not a math cruncher or programer, but couldn't the DPS sheet have an additional row(s) or column(s) with augments to select from, like "QA", "TA", "WS DMG%", "Crit hit rate %", "CHD%", etc? All the player with augmented gear would have to do is add the total values of their set and then replicate on the sheet. There is a gear tab where the items are listed. You can usually add in stats, provided those stats are already taken into account. The problem with these "ZOMG" augments is that you can't count on them and the DPS sheets are generic multi-purpose. I have extremely well augmented feet and moderately well augmented everything else. It's simply too random to expect a certain piece to have good augments and based on which augment you have will determine what how other pieces weight against each other. For augments here is what I have The feet are the only item I use in regular TP gear, the Head I use if I need even more accuracy then Emp 119 provides. I also have a set of +WSD Odyssean Gauntlets for single hit WS's and Odysean body augmented with DEX +6 Accuracy +27 Store TP+6. The body is used when I need a single hit WS to reach 200TP return. These are quite nice, but it took me thousands of stones to get a decent stat to go with the accuracy. If we could "lock in" an augment then this would be a hundred times easier as I could just lock in the Store TP / Crit / DA and then keep rolling on accuracy. was bored a few days ago (no clue why colors came out this way)
YouTube Video Placeholder Played with the sheet more now.
The trade-off between Ragnarok and Ukon is not simple. I did my spreadsheeting vs. Serac rabbit assuming Ukko's spam for Ukon and Resolution spam for Ragnarok. I assumed Berserk is permanently up, because it's up more than 90% of the time now unless you have terrible JA usage. I also used 30% ODT for Ukon. Condition 1: Dia II, March x2, Mad x2, Haste, Fighter's/Chaos, Hasso, and Dunna'd Fury/Frailty. Bison Steak because I didn't notice and now that's what it was. These were not enough to cap Attack but did cap Acc for both (with gear). Condition 2: Dia II, Haste, 20% Chaos/15% Fighter's, Hasso, Dunna'd Haste/Frailty. Basically trusts + GEO. Ukon switches to Sushi while Ragnarok makes minor Acc swaps. Hopefully this table works: In both cases, Ukon is about 10% behind Ragn. Upheaval does slightly more damage than Ukko's on average with a perfect set (Emicho +1), but complicates the comparison because you have to decide how often you're using it vs. Ukko's, and it isn't enough better to close the gap, so I ignored it. Ideal TP gear for Ragnarok with Warcry down was basically just to *** TP gain (STP) rather than going for a specific X-hit. I didn't bother reconfiguring for situations where Warcry is up and an X-hit is more relevant, but it's probably worth doing if you're actually going to go Ragnarok WAR. I'm sure that you could jigger the parameters so Ukon wins (start with 3000 TP, use mostly Upheaval, etc.), but Ragnarok is easier to use and thus it's probably better most of the time. Looking at the table, it's pretty obvious that Warcry is responsible for a lot of the difference between Ukon and Ragnarok. It gives Ragnarok a 40% DPS boost while giving Ukon an ~8% boost. In terms of comparisons to other jobs, a perfect WAR would not get totally embarrassed my actual Dancer. For me, however, the only real reason for me to use WAR over DNC is Mighty Strikes for melee zergs that don't happen anymore.
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Lakshmi.Byrth said: » Played with the sheet more now. The trade-off between Ragnarok and Ukon is not simple. I did my spreadsheeting vs. Serac rabbit assuming Ukko's spam for Ukon and Resolution spam for Ragnarok. I assumed Berserk is permanently up, because it's up more than 90% of the time now unless you have terrible JA usage. I also used 30% ODT for Ukon. Condition 1: Dia II, March x2, Mad x2, Haste, Fighter's/Chaos, Hasso, and Dunna'd Fury/Frailty. Bison Steak because I didn't notice and now that's what it was. These were not enough to cap Attack but did cap Acc for both (with gear). Condition 2: Dia II, Haste, 20% Chaos/15% Fighter's, Hasso, Dunna'd Haste/Frailty. Basically trusts + GEO. Ukon switches to Sushi while Ragnarok makes minor Acc swaps. Hopefully this table works: In both cases, Ukon is about 10% behind Ragn. Upheaval does slightly more damage than Ukko's on average with a perfect set (Emicho +1), but complicates the comparison because you have to decide how often you're using it vs. Ukko's, and it isn't enough better to close the gap, so I ignored it. Ideal TP gear for Ragnarok with Warcry down was basically just to *** TP gain (STP) rather than going for a specific X-hit. I didn't bother reconfiguring for situations where Warcry is up and an X-hit is more relevant, but it's probably worth doing if you're actually going to go Ragnarok WAR. I'm sure that you could jigger the parameters so Ukon wins (start with 3000 TP, use mostly Upheaval, etc.), but Ragnarok is easier to use and thus it's probably better most of the time. Looking at the table, it's pretty obvious that Warcry is responsible for a lot of the difference between Ukon and Ragnarok. It gives Ragnarok a 40% DPS boost while giving Ukon an ~8% boost. In terms of comparisons to other jobs, a perfect WAR would not get totally embarrassed my actual Dancer. For me, however, the only real reason for me to use WAR over DNC is Mighty Strikes for melee zergs that don't happen anymore. What do the sets your using look like? Lakshmi.Byrth said: » Played with the sheet more now. The trade-off between Ragnarok and Ukon is not simple. I did my spreadsheeting vs. Serac rabbit assuming Ukko's spam for Ukon and Resolution spam for Ragnarok. I assumed Berserk is permanently up, because it's up more than 90% of the time now unless you have terrible JA usage. I also used 30% ODT for Ukon. Condition 1: Dia II, March x2, Mad x2, Haste, Fighter's/Chaos, Hasso, and Dunna'd Fury/Frailty. Bison Steak because I didn't notice and now that's what it was. These were not enough to cap Attack but did cap Acc for both (with gear). Condition 2: Dia II, Haste, 20% Chaos/15% Fighter's, Hasso, Dunna'd Haste/Frailty. Basically trusts + GEO. Ukon switches to Sushi while Ragnarok makes minor Acc swaps. Hopefully this table works: In both cases, Ukon is about 10% behind Ragn. Upheaval does slightly more damage than Ukko's on average with a perfect set (Emicho +1), but complicates the comparison because you have to decide how often you're using it vs. Ukko's, and it isn't enough better to close the gap, so I ignored it. Ideal TP gear for Ragnarok with Warcry down was basically just to *** TP gain (STP) rather than going for a specific X-hit. I didn't bother reconfiguring for situations where Warcry is up and an X-hit is more relevant, but it's probably worth doing if you're actually going to go Ragnarok WAR. I'm sure that you could jigger the parameters so Ukon wins (start with 3000 TP, use mostly Upheaval, etc.), but Ragnarok is easier to use and thus it's probably better most of the time. Looking at the table, it's pretty obvious that Warcry is responsible for a lot of the difference between Ukon and Ragnarok. It gives Ragnarok a 40% DPS boost while giving Ukon an ~8% boost. In terms of comparisons to other jobs, a perfect WAR would not get totally embarrassed my actual Dancer. For me, however, the only real reason for me to use WAR over DNC is Mighty Strikes for melee zergs that don't happen anymore. Not sure I'm doing it right, but I changed the Uko's set you had in the sheet to my current set and kept Rag as the same. After changing it the gap in total dps between Uko and Rag decreased to UF: 4028.656 (previously 3473.795 Rag: 4596.320 I don't see averages of 22k resolutions and 14k Ukos. Seeing as I have all the gear and both weapons, I'll volunteer and will parse both sets on Apex crabs controlling for: -buffs -food -debuffs (ugh.. this will be a nightmare since they spam str down) Unless you know of any other mobs that won't kill me and will last long enough for me to get off a WS with them. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, this spreadsheet only shows ws vs ws, tp vs tp - it doesn't/can't show actual output when taking into account a 4-5 step self sc? Because I play with both weapons daily and I will obliterate apex mobs in 1 round of a 5 step double light with GA (sometimes they don't even live long enough for the double light) and a self 4 step SC with Rag will bring the crabs down to anywhere from 15-40%, never overkill. Time wise, 20-30 seconds is all i need to take down an apex crab with Uko, and with rag it can go over a minute. What's the minimal sample needed? maldini said: » Unless you know of any other mobs that won't kill me and will last long enough for me to get off a WS with them. Don't use crabs, they are PLD's with all the annoyance that entails. If you want a good test subject then use Apex Crawlers, Raptors or Bats. Bats have an attack down move you gotta be sure to remove. I run parses on everything I do and 19~27K resolution averages are quite common. Asura.Saevel said: » maldini said: » Unless you know of any other mobs that won't kill me and will last long enough for me to get off a WS with them. Don't use crabs, they are PLD's with all the annoyance that entails. If you want a good test subject then use Apex Crawlers, Raptors or Bats. Bats have an attack down move you gotta be sure to remove. I run parses on everything I do and 19~27K resolution averages are quite common. Resolution damage really depends heavily on how long you sit on TP (which is good for Resolution when Warcry is down).
I don't have the exact sets I was using, but I have the sets I was left with. Sets for Rag (2600 TP, so not worried about an x-hit but still whoring STP when convenient): Code TP: Ragnarok 121 Bloodrain Ginsen Boii +1 Lissome Cessance Brutal Odyssean (Acc/STP) Valorous (Acc/STP) Rajas Petrov Chicol's (STR/DA) Goading Odyssean (Acc/STP) Valorous (custA) WS: Ragnarok 121 Bloodrain Seething +1 Argosy +1 A Gorget Cessance Moonshade AttTP Argosy +1 D Argosy +1 D Shukuyu Ifrit +1 Chicol's (STR/DA) Ele.Belt Argosy +1 D Lustratio +1 A Sets for Ukon: Code TP: Ukonvasara 121 Bloodrain Antitail +1 Valorous (Acc/STP) Lissome Cessance Brutal Argosy +1 D Valorous (Acc/STP) Hetairoi Petrov Chicol's (STR/DA) Windbuffet +1 Boii +1 Boii +1 WS (I had changed it to Upheaval, but my Ukko's set was something like): Ukonvasara 121 Bloodrain Yetshila +1 Boii +1 Gorget Brutal Moonshade AttTP Argosy +1 A Argosy +1 D Begrudging Max Shukuyu Chicol's (STR/WSD) Windbuffet +1 Argosy +1 D Lustratio +1 D https://www.dropbox.com/s/5g7txedfl5z1q7e/DPS%20Calculator%20-%20War%20-%20160413.xlsx?dl=0 Blazed1979 said: » Asura.Saevel said: » maldini said: » Unless you know of any other mobs that won't kill me and will last long enough for me to get off a WS with them. Don't use crabs, they are PLD's with all the annoyance that entails. If you want a good test subject then use Apex Crawlers, Raptors or Bats. Bats have an attack down move you gotta be sure to remove. I run parses on everything I do and 19~27K resolution averages are quite common. Well of course. Anything worth doing is going to have a GEO present for Fraility at a minimum. I've said this before, nobody cares how much damage someone does to a delve monster, so I'm only looking at stuff where you'd have a group and be focused on getting something done. What the hell...
Those numbers are way off.. seriously...
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Asura.Saevel said: » What the hell... Those numbers are way off.. seriously... Some ppl dont do maze every run to reset MS. Siren.Sandraa said: » I think the only way make Ukko's fury a bit more competitive. Relic/Mythic weapons increase +40% damage on their Luxury WS. Empy weapons should have same effect Ukko's fury +40% and 60 STR. If we put a Scenario Sombra Dragon Difficulty, 5 Trust and WAR. Buffs. Double March Ulmia, Quitada Chaos/Fighter, Sylvie Attack/Defense down, Koru Haste 2 and Dia 3. Nobody play like this but spaming Only Ukko's fury vs Resolution. Ukko's fury can make a Light and resolution can't SC. In this scenario resolution averaging 15 - 17k vs Ukko's 10 - 12k + Light 2k will reduce the cap a little and of course Resolution will still Win. I doubt you find yourself spaming a Single WS without Self SC its not a optimal way to play anymore, in this scenario even more you need sc mandatory. The Real battle Start here. Upheaval Vs Resolution and Scourge Vs Ukko's fury. Spaming Self SC Non stop. Sombra Dragon. Ukon WAR Ukko's Fury 10k - 12k + Upheaval 12k - 14k = Light + Ukko's fury Double Light Ragnarok WAR Scourge 5k - 7k + Resolution 15k - 17k = Light + scourge? double Light.? I dont Know Pure Resolution Spam No SC. I doubt the extra damage of Resolution can beat SC damage. Conqueror Ukko's fury 12k - 14k + Upheaval 14k - 16k = Lights + Ukkos fury double Light So the question here its Can Scourge beat Ukko's fury?. Ragnarok should win in a pure WS spam but if we talk about SC scourge its garbage Lol As quick Note. Even with a Ragnarok and Bravura you will eat Sushi Sadly.... So Ukon, Ragnarok and conqueror you need eat sushi mandatory. Would be amazing with Ragnarok-BRavura you can eat Red Curry bun =/ to give a good use all those extra Acu 
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Siren.Sandraa said: » I doubt you find yourself spaming a Single WS without Self SC its not a optimal way to play anymore, in this scenario even more you need sc mandatory. Nothing in your post is optimal either, funny how that works. Actually nothing on any of the three main threads I troll makes sense today. DRK forum is posting lib sets with 22% gear haste, nin forums are arguing about shadow tanking with RUN...wtf.
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Well he's right about one thing - if WAR was the only DPS in PT with all that support, UKO/Conqueror would deal **FASTER** damage by using SC's.
Doing a 4-5 step light SC on Uko or Conqueror is going to greatly outdo a 3-4 step light on Ragnarok. I've tested this out several hundred of times on Apex mobs. How many you ask? Enough to cap my GEO mule's job points from 0-2100 outside of CP campaign - so yeah, a *** of times. However, if you pit a Great Axe war (Uko/Conqueror) using skillchains vs a Rag spamming resolution, I think Greataxe will come out on-top again. (most certainly for conqueror, and likely for uko) SC damage on that dragon is kind of shitty, so no.
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