The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2010-06-21
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2013-01-09 11:03:00  
With 36% DA, you're looking at ~40% chance of not having at least one DA proc.
 Odin.Sawtelle
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2013-01-09 11:14:51  
chance of landing only the first hit at 51% da:

1.2%

Edit: assuming this math is right, just woke up

.95*(.51*.05+.49)*.05*(.51*.05+.49)

Edit2:

2% chance of only the first hit landing at 36% da

Edit3: If you really cared you could set up spell cast to use a different tp set if TP=1 hit ukko's to equip tyrant's ring or something for 1 hit.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2013-01-09 11:19:59  
It's 1.14% only the first hit, doesn't look like you accounted for x2 DA.
 Carbuncle.Sambb
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By Carbuncle.Sambb 2013-01-09 11:22:26  
I see where I went wrong thank you for explaning it, makes sense now.
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-09 15:37:33  
As far as Ragnarok sets...

Without Embrava the previously posted Ukon set is winning as long as Restraint is up. If Restraint is down, the 6-hit Taint posted is winning very slightly.

With Embrava the previously posted Ukon set is winning up until the point where you need accuracy (with Hunter's/Mad that won't be often), then the standard Armada set wins.


edit: Should also note: You *do not* need Phos +1 for the set with Ares+1 to be on top, but it does improve DPS by ~.5% depending on your buffs.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2013-01-09 17:53:33  
If you have phos +1, you can replace blitz by mars ring if you need accuracy and it beat the "standard" armada tp set for me.
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 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-09 20:05:29  
Uh yea, you can actually get more accuracy with this

(Avant +1 hands when Restraint's down)

than with the "standard" set, but it does need Phos +1.
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-01-09 20:33:54  
FFS stop moving the goal posts already...
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-01-10 21:51:41  
Asura.Ccl said: »



I have this set winning when restraint up and no regain.(assuming 3%da from set and 3%da / 6stp on armada).

edit: only checked on target up to Qilin.

What are the exact buffs you're using? I can't seem to replicate this beating the Valk. set under any conditions besides when attack/accuracy are really low.


Odin.Registry said: »
I've been playing with Ares' set bonus in spreadsheets... If it turns out to be 9 DA for 4/5 pieces I have this set



ahead of this set



by a decent amount (~50-90 DPS) on pretty much everything that doesn't need accuracy as long as Embrava's up. When Embrava's down it looks like the Valk set comes out something like .06 DPS ahead of the Ares' set.

Can someone confirm that? I feel like I'm screwing something up.

edit: Looking about the same for Ragnarok Embrava sets.

Same as above. I can't duplicate this at all. What I'm getting is showing Valk. set with a considerable lead.

There's also debate if the set bonus is really 3/6/9/12. Apparently, the JPs are saying the Morri set is 3/5/7/9.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2013-01-11 00:27:22  
I'm using boost-str / march march(+5) / chaos / fighter. 3DA for set bonus, 6stp/3da on armada and rajas ring on ws.

Restraint / zerk / aggressor up.


Did you try on mob with crit def or capped Ddex ? I have this set beating valk as soon as you get 2% crit from Ddex. and the difference in dex in both set is 23dex. Maybe that's where you got different number?


Edit: actually need 2% crit rate from the ddex to beat valk set.
 Leviathan.Vaudianx
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By Leviathan.Vaudianx 2013-01-11 06:11:11  
Ukonvasara Ragnarok TP LOW + Access to NNI gear set please??
 Valefor.Whitetiger
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By Valefor.Whitetiger 2013-01-11 06:34:47  
I have a small question about the usefulness of Porthos Byrnie. Lets say accuracy is capped and not a problem, would the following combo 1 beat combo 2, listed below. The difference being the first set gives 4% Double Attack, 3% Critical Hit Rate and 2% Triple Attack rate while the second set gives 18 MORE Accuracy, 7 Great Axe Skill and Store TP+8.

Combo 1: Ravager's Mask +2, Porthos Byrnie, Dusk Gloves +1
Combo 2: Zelus Tiara, Ravager's Lorica +2, Ravager's Mufflers +2


Now note that at the moment, I have an unaugmented Adaman Hauberk, however would the Triple Attack +2% Haste+5% on Porthos Byrnie compare to Adaman Hauberk (NQ) Augmented with Store TP and Double Attack?

My assumption is that the Adaman Hauberk's Accuracy+DEX as well as the augments on it would be better than Porthos Byrnie's Triple Attack and Haste due to the Accuracy being a large factor in capping accuracy on many NMs for WAR. If and when I augment my Adaman Hauberk, how would set #3 below compare to #1 and #2.

Combo 3: Zelus Tiara, Adaman Hauberk (Stp+2~4 DblAtk+2), Ravager's Muffler's +2

NOTE: At this time, I do not have access to Neo-Nyzul Isle Equipment.
 Cerberus.Frotaut
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By Cerberus.Frotaut 2013-01-11 07:15:30  
Porthos should be burned it really has no place in a war tp setup.
 Ragnarok.Ravant
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By Ragnarok.Ravant 2013-01-11 07:22:34  
Cerberus.Frotaut said: »
Porthos should be burned it really has no place in a war tp setup.

Yet sadly I see em running around all the time :/
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-11 08:14:38  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »

I can't replicate my earlier results with the 4/5 Ares' set; I think I probably *** something up with weaponskill sets.

Using Boost STR, March x2, 35% Chaos, and 21% Fighter's: Ccl's set is beating Valk set by ~30 DPS (Valk's quite a bit low on accuracy) on Ig-Alima, ~3 DPS on Qilin, ~7 DPS on Bukhis, and losing by ~3 DPS on fodder.

When buffs are upped to Boost STR, Min 5, Min 4, 500 Embrava, Haste, Berk, Agg, Restraint, 35% Chaos, 21% Fighter's, 30 STP Samurai, Mad x2 (I don't see a spot for Hunter's so I'm putting Mad x2?): on Ig-Alima Ccl's set wins by ~42 DPS (when you change Valk to Armada and Tyrant's to Mars' his set still wins by ~9 DPS), Qilin by ~3 DPS, Pil by ~4 DPS, Bukhis by ~12 DPS, and on fodder Valk set wins by ~3 DPS.

Sets I'm using:

Valk:

Armada:

Ares'

Ukko's (on all 3 sets, triple checked this time >_>)


edit again: err... with Elvaan stats and Red Curry.

last edit: cleaned everything up.
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 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-01-11 09:59:23  
Odin.Registry said: »
I can't replicate my earlier results with the 4/5 Ares' set; I think I probably *** something up with weaponskill sets.

Using Boost STR, March x2, 35% Chaos, and 21% Fighter's: Ccl's set is beating Valk set by ~30 DPS (Valk's quite a bit low on accuracy) on Ig-Alima, ~3 DPS on Qilin, ~7 DPS on Bukhis, and losing by ~3 DPS on fodder.

When buffs are upped to Boost STR, Min 5, Min 4, 500 Embrava, Haste, Berk, Agg, Restraint, 35% Chaos, 21% Fighter's, 30 STP Samurai, Mad x2 (I don't see a spot for Hunter's so I'm putting Mad x2?): on Ig-Alima Ccl's set wins by ~42 DPS (when you change Valk to Armada and Tyrant's to Mars' his set still wins by ~9 DPS), Qilin by ~3 DPS, Pil by ~4 DPS, Bukhis by ~12 DPS, and on fodder Valk set wins by ~3 DPS.

Sets I'm using:

I assumed he meant no Embrava when he said no regain, but I can confirm your results that it does beat Valk. with Embrava.
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-11 10:05:58  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
I assumed he meant no Embrava when he said no regain, but I can confirm your results that it does beat Valk. with Embrava.

With just Berk, Agg, Boost STR, March x2, 35% Chaos, and 21% Fighter's it should be winning too.

Also getting Ares hands +1/legs +1 doing better than most other stuff for Ukko's when there's a 3% DA set bonus (when accuracy isn't needed). Not sure if that's been mentioned.

edit: Checking again on the TP set, then.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-01-11 10:10:07  
Odin.Registry said: »
With just Berk, Agg, Boost STR, March x2, 35% Chaos, and 21% Fighter's it should be winning too.

I'm only getting that if race is Taru or if you add a Mad, which adds 5 DEX and knocks it up another crit. tier.
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-11 10:14:25  
Errr... throw Restraint and Hasso on there too.

I have Ares' winning on anything that isn't Fodder or Hydra DRG/MNK. Even with Elvaan stats.


edit: You do need to weaponskill in Rajas for a 6-hit, though. If you change it to a Pyrosoul/Strigoi it starts losing by a much larger margin than it's winning by.
 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-01-11 10:19:43  
Odin.Registry said: »
I have it winning on anything that isn't Fodder or Hydra DRG/MNK. Even with Elvaan stats.

It = Valk?

Odin.Registry said: »
edit: You do need to weaponskill in Rajas for a 6-hit, though. If you change it to a Pyrosoul/Strigoi it starts losing by a much larger margin.

Yeah, I've been using the exact sets you listed the whole time.
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-11 10:21:28  
errr... Ares', sorry.

One sec, I'll throw up actual DPS values if you want to compare.

Using Elvaan stats, Marchx2, 450 Boost STR, 35% Chaos, 21% Fighter's:

Ig-Alima - Valk 215.319, Ares' 245.239

Qilin - Valk 591.929, Ares' 594.833

Pil - Valk 598.075, Ares' 601.000

Bukhis - Valk 724.273, Ares' 727.574

Bluffalo EM - Valk 751.613, Ares' 759.931

Hydra RNG - Valk 733.393, Ares' 734.127

Hydra MNK - Valk 705.063, Ares' 704.176

Hydra DRG - Valk 726.240, Ares' 723.899

DC Nightmare Mob - Valk 747.783, Ares' 749.559

Fodder - Valk 764.538, Ares' 767.388


Maybe I'm screwing something up. It's early... lemme recheck buffs and everything.

edit: I don't see anything I messed up on. Obviously still could have, but yea... Only "weird" thing I'm seeing is Valk set has a higher WS average (by 1, it's 3647 vs 3646) than Ares' set, but it should have a slight bit more overflow TP.
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 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2013-01-11 12:15:19  
At this point, both sets seems close enough that 1-2 fstr and make one set better than the other, most of the time, when valk is better it seems to be <1% better and that unless you do need ddex/acc the ares set is pulling by <1% too.

I'd just go with the ares set as a goal set atm and unless you already have a valk augemented, I wouldn't bother with it till something change.
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-01-11 16:13:57  
Found what was wrong, numbers seemed a bit low... I had a crit. def. bonus on.

Granted, taking it off doesn't favor Valk so I may still have something ticked off that shouldn't be.


edit: Had a friend verify my results; Valk is losing on everything EM or higher.
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 Ragnarok.Ejiin
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By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2013-01-14 04:25:52  
@Registy and Ccl

Finally found my error. The default STP on Armada is 5, making it 6 made everything match your results.

Valefor.Whitetiger said: »
have a small question about the usefulness of Porthos Byrnie.

I'm very reluctant making sets using Porthos. I believe a Warrior's #1 goal for the body slot should be Armada and don't want people getting in the "good enough" mentality when using Porthos.

Leviathan.Vaudianx said: »
Ragnarok TP LOW + Access to NNI gear set please?



But I highly recommend using a Ukon until you get to a High-MID tier for Rag, unless it's for a MS zerg.

---

Updated some sets. I checked Ragna MAX and it didn't seem any addition of Ares' +1 was beating it, unless buffs are extremely low, in which case you have no business using Ragna on WAR.
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By SakimaAsura 2013-01-14 06:35:22  
Where is the oneiros ring love? Given that its latent can be voided in places where you can be aspired/cursed etc but that's certainly not the case for every event of the game. I don't see the -100hp excuse thrown around (pertaining to survival) as a reasonable reason to write it off.

Also question concerning ravager calligae +2 vs huggin gambs, which would be stronger in the situation of retaliation friendly mobs?

I'll admit i am a bit skeptical when it comes to spreadsheet but i would like to hear some thoughts concerning these questions.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2013-01-14 07:16:15  
On the ukon max, if you replace blitz ring by oneiros, the set get even better(if you have phos belt+1; not with nq).
 Cerberus.Mindi
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By Cerberus.Mindi 2013-01-14 08:56:36  
well its mostly accepted, and its been talked about it alot, that when you are a mainjob-DD (in this case War) and you do endgame events where you aren't 90% of the time Immune to DMG (VW) or are in godmode in general (Abyssea) those 100 HP will in the long term provide you more Dmg output then the 2%TA from the Oneiros ring. Well and you still just need to be cursed, aspired or w/e and the MP are gone.

In events where the mobs general dmg output is high and you are constantly getting hit by AoE or direct dmg its helpfull to have those HP. You can DD longer in your best TP setup until you really need to turtle up (when your whm is busy/you are waiting for a cure after taking too much dmg, a massive attack is incoming or w/e). In Legion when you use a Hybrid DMg-/TP setup you have even more HP out of those 100 while TPing.

Those 100HP will "increase" your dmgoutput because they help you stay alive/TP longer in best setup.. Especially Taru's still like to get oneshotted from some Legion mobs (and as far as i know they change to DMG- gear, i am no taru.. they say they do :) )

In the end the reason why there is no Oneiros love IS the HP you loose. When you only do stuff like most VW, Abyssea and w/e or your mainjob is a mage and you have MP merits anyways go for the ring. But its not recommented to change 100HP merits into MP just for the ring. (sry for my bad english :x)
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 Sylph.Binckry
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By Sylph.Binckry 2013-01-14 09:04:09  
I think it technically becomes like -220 HP or something, too much HP loss to warrant that TA
 Leviathan.Egonn
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By Leviathan.Egonn 2013-01-14 09:18:27  
Plus if you lose MP for any reason you need to use an ether which can be a pain. You also can't use MP gear to TP in because when you macro out gear you lose the MP and can't hit the 100. You actualy NEED to merit it. Onieros is too much of a pain.
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