The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2010-06-21
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By K123 2024-09-10 06:30:18  
SimonSes said: »
K123 said: »
Even if you could do the same ws damage, 99% acc vs 95% acc makes naegling the better choice.

If you care that much for efficiency of your Seg farm, then why even go WAR? Just go DRG.
Optimizing beyond full clear only have sense, if you enjoy doing shorter full clear over slightly longer full clear, but using different setups to not get bored.
Not everyone has DRG and loads of people bandwaggoned WAR so they're a dime a dozen. I couldn't get my DRG doing the insane numbers it should to be worth using over my WAR - no KC if that was what changes it.
 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-09-10 07:17:44  
Seun said: »
Daddy's approval is directly proportional to your share of the parse. Don't let me down, son.

Get out of here Spicy Ryan! Your cover is blown!

K123 said: »
SimonSes said: »
K123 said: »
Even if you could do the same ws damage, 99% acc vs 95% acc makes naegling the better choice.

If you care that much for efficiency of your Seg farm, then why even go WAR? Just go DRG.
Optimizing beyond full clear only have sense, if you enjoy doing shorter full clear over slightly longer full clear, but using different setups to not get bored.
Not everyone has DRG and loads of people bandwaggoned WAR so they're a dime a dozen. I couldn't get my DRG doing the insane numbers it should to be worth using over my WAR - no KC if that was what changes it.

Yes it's the KC. C is mostly slashing weak.
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By SimonSes 2024-09-10 07:26:05  
K123 said: »
Dodik said: »
Sheol C is about as meaningful content as capping merits. What is even this discussion, literally talking about doing 98% dmg vs 99% dmg ffs.
He specifically asked about Sheol C and Dynamis, so people replied about Sheol C.

It's also nothing about 98% vs 99%, it's about speed. Damage total on a parser =/= speed at clearing. Naegling wins, using Gaxe is pointless except for the enjoyment and if you have 5 people that let you play how you want for your $12.99.

His question was what to R15 first. Saying he should Naegling in C is some kind of answer, but ultimately doesn't answer his question at all.
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 Phoenix.Gavroches
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By Phoenix.Gavroches 2024-09-10 08:27:32  
Original question got lost such a long time ago, I can’t find it lol. Well Chango should be R15 as it’s realistically the best GA, super cheap, super easy to get and either way you cut the pie, a top 3 contender with 1 overly expensive option and one overly demanding (that few ppl will make it to p5, and so have the option to R15 it when they get around with it) option in front of. Nobody will look you down with a Chango 15 + ambu weapon, you won’t be gimp.
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By Dodik 2024-09-10 08:32:20  
Phoenix.Gavroches said: »
Nobody will look you down with a Chango 15 + ambu weapon, you won’t be gimp.

Give it another 6 months.

And the R15 for the primes is the stage5. Don't hold your breath on anything more.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-09-10 08:50:13  
K123 said: »
I couldn't get my DRG doing the insane numbers it should to be worth using over my WAR - no KC if that was what changes it.
Phoenix.Iocus said: »
Yes it's the KC. C is mostly slashing weak.

No its not. I've seen Bippin go DRG/WAR and obliterate everything with Naegling. KC just makes TP overgain absurd, but you can push very high numbers subbing WAR on DRG, which also gives you access to Judgment for Blunt-vulnerable moves. But you don't need a KC to perform well in Sheol C as Naegling DD. And DRG is faster at single-wielding than WAR is since it has a native JA haste.
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-09-10 08:54:44  
Asura.Melliny said: »
Now Laphria on the other hand is another story. I use Laphria on floors 1 through 4 and it feels stronger than naegling the entire time. I know parse damage is pretty meaningless in segs so I won't even bother mentioning, but Laphria is the consistent winner in every category. It's not by a huge milestone, but it's enough to make G axe beat out sword for once, and that's a satisfying feeling. Up until now naegling has just been so strong that it's been the defacto slashing BiS for almost anything, but Laphria's power level is so high it surpasses it. I'm sitting on stage 4 with 4.25 million galla saved up. I'll be making Laphria my second stage 5 when I hit 5 mil. It's strong enough that I feel it's worth the investment.

Lots of other weapons beat out Savage Bro builds, Naegling just overkills so hard that it inflates parses. The reason your seeing Laphria and I see Heim beat Nagling is that those new WS's are single hit (nobody cares about SB's second hit) high fTP scaling WS's so they can also overkill hard. I wasn't joking when I said Seg C Savage Bro parse is ~30% inflated.

Now take something like Upheaval, almost half it's damage is in those additional hits, which only happen if there is remaining HP. This means that at identical kill speeds you would be parsing 10~30% under what your real damage is. This is why it "feels" weaker, it's not, just your total damage isn't being displayed because the monster died already while Naegling's damage is displayed even if the monster was long since dead.
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By K123 2024-09-10 10:47:04  
It sucks that if you miss the first hit of Upheaval (5%/1 in 20 WS) it doesn't tend to kill the mob though. That's enough of an annoyance to avoid using 2h in there for me.
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By K123 2024-09-10 10:48:26  
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
K123 said: »
I couldn't get my DRG doing the insane numbers it should to be worth using over my WAR - no KC if that was what changes it.
Phoenix.Iocus said: »
Yes it's the KC. C is mostly slashing weak.

No its not. I've seen Bippin go DRG/WAR and obliterate everything with Naegling. KC just makes TP overgain absurd, but you can push very high numbers subbing WAR on DRG, which also gives you access to Judgment for Blunt-vulnerable moves. But you don't need a KC to perform well in Sheol C as Naegling DD. And DRG is faster at single-wielding than WAR is since it has a native JA haste.
When I tried DRG/WAR I just wasn't seeing the numbers. It felt like higher TP value for SB would make the difference, hence the KC.

DRG has native haste but WAR has 100% DA. What is the actual TP speed for both single wielding?
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By SimonSes 2024-09-10 11:29:43  
K123 said: »
It sucks that if you miss the first hit of Upheaval (5%/1 in 20 WS) it doesn't tend to kill the mob though. That's enough of an annoyance to avoid using 2h in there for me.

Which should be your argument to R15 Farsha :D

I'm not even kidding. Farsha white damage + Mistral Axe should be as reliable as Naegling or even better for seg C.
Still same problem as Ukon though, you can build AM3 and then next group of mobs might require you to switch to blunt or piercing, which sucks a lot :/
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By K123 2024-09-10 11:32:06  
SimonSes said: »
K123 said: »
It sucks that if you miss the first hit of Upheaval (5%/1 in 20 WS) it doesn't tend to kill the mob though. That's enough of an annoyance to avoid using 2h in there for me.

Which should be your argument to R15 Farsha :D

I'm not even kidding. Farsha white damage + Mistral Axe should be as reliable as Naegling or even better for seg C.
Still same problem as Ukon though, you can build AM3 and then next group of mobs might require you to switch to blunt or piercing, which sucks a lot :/
I hate it when people pull 1 set of slashing mobs + 1 blunt at the same time. Even worse when you are on SAM and it is 1 slashing (masa), 1 magic ws set (doji), and one you need to polearm.
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-09-10 11:54:54  
K123 said: »
It sucks that if you miss the first hit of Upheaval (5%/1 in 20 WS) it doesn't tend to kill the mob though. That's enough of an annoyance to avoid using 2h in there for me.

Well it's kind of a double sided coin, the first hit is 50~60% possibly even 70% of it's damage so instead of a 0 you get something of out it. Of course that something might be enough to push the mob to sub 25% and it instantly does a TP move. With Heim, if a whiff occurs I can get TP back and kill the mob before anything happens.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2024-09-10 11:58:15  
Something I have been playing with for Seg Farm:

WAR/NIN with Dolchi/Sangarius+1 tears things up pretty hard.
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too.

It's a great option, but keep in mind single hit weapon skills will parse higher due to dealing full damage regardless of a monster's remaining HP.

If I overflow on TP, or Have war cry up, I also use Mistal Axe.

3DA/TA/QA on one weapon is pretty insane.Its often over shadowed by a TP Bonus offhand though.


DMG:158 Delay:281 Attack+26 Sword skill +228 Parrying skill +228 Magic Accuracy skill +188 "Double Attack"+3% "Triple Attack"+3% Unity Ranking: STR+1~7 Additional effect: HP Drain
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2024-09-10 12:01:01  
Asura.Saevel said: »
K123 said: »
It sucks that if you miss the first hit of Upheaval (5%/1 in 20 WS) it doesn't tend to kill the mob though. That's enough of an annoyance to avoid using 2h in there for me.

Well it's kind of a double sided coin, the first hit is 50~60% possibly even 70% of it's damage so instead of a 0 you get something of out it. Of course that something might be enough to push the mob to sub 25% and it instantly does a TP move. With Heim, if a whiff occurs I can get TP back and kill the mob before anything happens.

If we are talking WS in general.
I definitely like Upheaval/Shoha > Torcleaver/Fudo for that reason.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-09-10 12:18:39  
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too.

WSD only applies to the first hit of the WS. Decimation you want to have as much MA as possible along with the Fotia Gorget/Belt.
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By Nariont 2024-09-10 12:20:15  
pretty sure he just meant the damage of the weaponskill, not the stat
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2024-09-10 14:12:46  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too.

WSD only applies to the first hit of the WS. Decimation you want to have as much MA as possible along with the Fotia Gorget/Belt.


I forgot how eager everyone is here to correct, but my bad.

I meant the damage of the weapon skill. Not my first rodeo, but thanks I should've clarified.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-09-10 14:23:31  
Context matters:
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
WAR/NIN with Dolchi/Sangarius+1 tears things up pretty hard.
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too.

The "Decimation" damage boost applies to all hits in the Weapon Skill.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2024-09-10 14:28:26  
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Context matters:
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
WAR/NIN with Dolchi/Sangarius+1 tears things up pretty hard.
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too.
I'm pretty sure the WS based WSD from Ambu weapons applies to all hits / final damage, not just the first hit.

Okay, here is the context.

I am talking about the overall damage from the weapon skill being used with the Ambu Axe. Not stats, not the WSDMG Modifier, not the unique WSDMG boost on the weapon.

Can we move on lmao?

I was only saying it was a great combination.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-09-10 15:14:33  
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too.

WSD only applies to the first hit of the WS. Decimation you want to have as much MA as possible along with the Fotia Gorget/Belt.


I forgot how eager everyone is here to correct, but my bad.

I meant the damage of the weapon skill. Not my first rodeo, but thanks I should've clarified.

I know your buttocks hurts a bit, remember "Weapon skill damage" is actually the name of a stat on gear.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Boii_Mufflers_%2B3

Dolich is listed as "Decimation" damage +120%

That would be like someone saying "all that crit from from Strength".
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By Nariont 2024-09-10 15:28:36  
The context comes after,

Asura.Saevel said: »
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too

Atleast how i read it was the ws dmg of deci is great, as is the white dmg of the build, guess he could have said of instead of on but its not hard to infer
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-09-10 15:38:51  
Native English speakers will also notice that these things have different meanings.

Quote:
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great

The weaponskill damage done by Decimation is great

Quote:
Weaponskill Damage is great on Decimation

Weaponskill damage is a great modifier for Decimation


If you're trying to say "adding WSD (stat) is great for Decimation"...you don't phrase it the way OP did. This should've been your first hint, even without the second half of the sentence, that he meant the first thing and not the second one.

I hope we can continue this discussion for another 3 pages.
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2024-09-10 15:52:20  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too.

WSD only applies to the first hit of the WS. Decimation you want to have as much MA as possible along with the Fotia Gorget/Belt.


I forgot how eager everyone is here to correct, but my bad.

I meant the damage of the weapon skill. Not my first rodeo, but thanks I should've clarified.

I know your buttocks hurts a bit, remember "Weapon skill damage" is actually the name of a stat on gear.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Boii_Mufflers_%2B3

Dolich is listed as "Decimation" damage +120%

That would be like someone saying "all that crit from from Strength".

My *** isn't hurt,

I was just trying to be a bit helpful with different weapon combinations.

You may return to debating Chango vs Ukon.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-09-10 15:57:39  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Asura.Saevel said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too.

WSD only applies to the first hit of the WS. Decimation you want to have as much MA as possible along with the Fotia Gorget/Belt.


I forgot how eager everyone is here to correct, but my bad.

I meant the damage of the weapon skill. Not my first rodeo, but thanks I should've clarified.

I know your buttocks hurts a bit, remember "Weapon skill damage" is actually the name of a stat on gear.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Boii_Mufflers_%2B3

Dolich is listed as "Decimation" damage +120%

That would be like someone saying "all that crit from from Strength".
You're the one who went on a WSD tirade when OP said "Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great". I dealt with Afania all day, I'm not playin around with your ignorant *** too cause you cant read properly.
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By Kaffy 2024-09-10 16:05:05  
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By SimonSes 2024-09-10 16:21:33  
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
I meant the damage of the weapon skill. Not my first rodeo, but thanks I should've clarified.

No, you shouldn't have to. I'm not a native speaker and the context was very clear.

Asura.Saevel said: »
I know your buttocks hurts a bit, remember "Weapon skill damage" is actually the name of a stat on gear.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Boii_Mufflers_%2B3

Dolich is listed as "Decimation" damage +120%

That would be like someone saying "all that crit from from Strength".

I would say I expected Saevel to simply move on or accept, that he read it wrong, but I would lie then. I expected him to exactly behave like this.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-09-10 16:24:20  
Nariont said: »
The context comes after,

Asura.Saevel said: »
Weaponskill Damage on Decimation is great, and even the white damage is too

Atleast how i read it was the ws dmg of deci is great, as is the white dmg of the build, guess he could have said of instead of on but its not hard to infer

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By Nariont 2024-09-10 16:28:54  
Better than you and you having some kind of syntax error seeing

"Weaponskill Damage on Decimation"

And having to ackshully the whole thing
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2024-09-10 16:35:58  
Saevel still doing this in 2024 was on my bingo card.
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2024-09-10 18:26:41  
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If we are going to reply with youtube videos, *** it I want in.
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