The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Asura.Warmoose
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By Asura.Warmoose 2022-09-11 12:11:46  
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
It's a noticeably higher chance than 50% to get double. Our group thinks its worth it.

But why? You risk being severely undercapped for toughest floors. You have way bigger chance for crooked chaos XI on start and not missing anything. I know it's doable anyway, but we are talking about non biased objectively optimal way of doing it and that's not SV at start.

I'd say its more rare that we don't get a SV reset between CC/WC. For as long as our group has ran, 90% of the time we're running SV from the start, and have it for last floor.

The low risk is worth having full SV runs.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2022-09-11 13:05:16  
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
It's a noticeably higher chance than 50% to get double. Our group thinks its worth it.

But why? You risk being severely undercapped for toughest floors. You have way bigger chance for crooked chaos XI on start and not missing anything. I know it's doable anyway, but we are talking about non biased objectively optimal way of doing it and that's not SV at start.
Because we feel that always having SV on floor one and some of two sufficiently outweighs occasionally not having SV on floor 4.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2022-09-11 13:10:34  
If you don't full clear C the way I do it you suck.
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 Asura.Warmoose
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By Asura.Warmoose 2022-09-11 15:12:39  
I think the original question was geared at how do you get 2 SV a run. We can all agree that people will prioritize that risk differently.

Do what makes sense for your group.
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By SimonSes 2022-09-11 15:52:20  
Asura.Bippin said: »
If you don't full clear C the way I do it you suck.

Its not about sucking or not. Im talking from a guide perspective. You can do C without support job and that's fine. You can do Savage in Malignance on NIN, thats also fine. None of those is optimal. I'm not saying there is only one way to farm C, but I'm saying SV on start is not optimal one and while for some people it might be whatever, because they will catch up with skill and powercreep, it might be a big deal for groups that are less geared. So it's same principals as for gear guide really.

Asura.Warmoose said: »
90% of the time

You have 37.5% chance to get 5 o 6 on WC
You need at least 4, 5 or 6 on Cutting Cards to have it for at least last ~7 min (tho really 7min only kinda sucks, but whatever). So thats 50%

Long time since I tried to calculate probability, but I think chance here would be 68.75%, not 90%, but maybe I'm wrong.
 Asura.Warmoose
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By Asura.Warmoose 2022-09-11 16:02:10  
I couldnt tell you what the odds/probability are with Wild Card effect x 20 job point categories, or Bottes+3 reroll effect. I'm just saying generally speaking, we take the chance with those SP's, and seem to have SV twice for the majority of our runs. And if we dont get it back for 4th floor, its not that much a handicap, but I think we make up for it in our Floor1-2 clear speed.

Again, its a method; its not THE method. This game is a choose your own adventure, and I'm not knocking your logic. The other poster has the information/experiences to digest and choose from.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2022-09-11 16:48:25  
SimonSes said: »
None of those is optimal. I'm not saying there is only one way to farm C, but I'm saying SV on start is not optimal one and while for some people it might be whatever, because they will catch up with skill and powercreep, it might be a big deal for groups that are less geared.
And yet, just you saying it's not optimal doesn't mean that it isn't. We go to the extra effort of double SV not because it's "whatever", but because our results actually show that we get more segments on average doing it that way.
 Bismarck.Firedemon
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By Bismarck.Firedemon 2022-09-11 17:20:43  
You mean to tell me, you guys don’t go in solo and Cruel Joke what you can in 30 minutes?
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 Asura.Jokes
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By Asura.Jokes 2022-09-12 07:02:30  
SimonSes said: »
Even if it's like 50% chance to have it for floor 4 it's still not worth it. It's much better to have it always at floors 3 and 4 and not have it on floors 1 and 2. You don't need SV for first 2 floors and if you have dahaks or molbors on first two floors and you BRD and Cor aren't sure they can kill them without risk, then they can simply pull and kill from next group. Both Cor and BRD shouldn't have problems with pulling from range. You can use WC to pretty much ensure crooked 11 chaos roll on start, which should help BRD and COR to cap too. If you want to be super optimal, you can haste II everyone on RDM before entering too, so you can do honor + 4 minuets, but that requires tank or healer to have a bis duration RDM on swap.

We prebuff with SCH outside, then pop SV CC at start. COR Wild Card's for a chance of instant reset, and if that fails use Cutting Cards.

Sometimes we will extend the first Soul Voice by re-doing songs (nitro was reset by WC but SV lasts 3 mins) on the 2nd or 3rd camp, which brings SV up to the first 15 minutes. If Wild Card was reset using it straight away on floor 3 covers you for most of the run at that point.

If the COR resets SV with WC they Cutting Cards themselves for a chance for a 3rd Soul Voice.

Most of the time we have 2 Soul Voices a run, occasionally 3, occasionally 1 but with current gear and ML40 I don't feel like Floor 4 is that horrible.

PS. I got a WAR +2 earring today :D not the best stats. 7str 7vit 16acc 6 Crit
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By SimonSes 2022-09-12 08:13:33  
Asura.Geriond said: »
SimonSes said: »
None of those is optimal. I'm not saying there is only one way to farm C, but I'm saying SV on start is not optimal one and while for some people it might be whatever, because they will catch up with skill and powercreep, it might be a big deal for groups that are less geared.
And yet, just you saying it's not optimal doesn't mean that it isn't. We go to the extra effort of double SV not because it's "whatever", but because our results actually show that we get more segments on average doing it that way.

Assuming you have access to everything, you use SCH as healer and embrava after prebuffed Haste II wears off, which means you can cap both haste and attack with Marcato Honor, 4 minuets and Crooked XI chaos roll. This means you lose nothing for first 2 floors and you get SV always for 3rd and 4th floor. So it's capped haste and attack for whole run, against 31.25% chance to miss SV for second half of the run.
 Asura.Geriond
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By Asura.Geriond 2022-09-12 08:29:18  
You lose etudes, which our BRD and rotating last DD sometimes want for guaranteed oneshot, it speeds up non-optimal groups like wamouracampa or skeletons, and we usually have SV for the 4th floor anyway.

SV is more beneficial on the 4th floor than on the 1st + 2nd, but our experiences have told us it's not 3 times as beneficial.

Also, you say that a guide should be for the less geared, but the less geared is exactly the kind of groups that would benefit most from usually hsving 2 sets of SVed song, given they probably won't cap attack on floor 1/2 even with 4 minuets/chaos (songs and rolls which might be lower potency as well), and might not have access to long duration prebuffing. Even a lower geared group can still do floor 4 just fine (albeit more slowly) without SV if they get unlucky that run, so it's not like it's a requirement.
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-10-03 19:41:27  
How useful is Tomahawk? Does it do anything meaningful to Atonement 3 Ody bosses?
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-10-03 20:27:23  
Tomahawk is useful when you need to reduce anything that has a SDT. For Atonement 3, it doesn't really do anything for WAR particularly, since you should just use a different weapon type and deal full damage, but it can be used on something like Ngai to slightly boost the COR's (relatively insignificant) Savage Blade damage, since COR can't use a blunt option for the fight and he would be using a Sword for DPS (if you even want him to DPS at all). That's what I used it for once or twice, can't think of many other uses.
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-10-04 06:39:29  
If a mob uses Invincible, you can make it so you can deal enough damage to still TP on them and do magical WSs instead till it's over? (Or just save TP till it's over)

Ty for the Ngai scenario explanation. That is about all I thought it would be good for.
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By SimonSes 2022-10-04 08:08:50  
Phoenix.Iocus said: »
If a mob uses Invincible, you can make it so you can deal enough damage to still TP on them and do magical WSs instead till it's over? (Or just save TP till it's over)

Ty for the Ngai scenario explanation. That is about all I thought it would be good for.

You can ranged attack during perfect dodge, but you can't do anything against invincible. DRK can spam spells and get tp with occult acumen, but WAR not really.
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 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2022-10-04 10:03:05  
Phoenix.Iocus said: »
If a mob uses Invincible, you can make it so you can deal enough damage to still TP on them and do magical WSs instead till it's over? (Or just save TP till it's over)
Are you trying to say Tomahawk breaks through invincible?


Edit: To be really clear it does not unless something was changed.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-10-04 10:19:31  
He's probably thinking it's like Formless Strikes, which bypasses certain special resistance or damage immunities.
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By SimonSes 2022-10-04 12:24:49  
Asura.Bippin said: »
Are you trying to say Tomahawk breaks through invincible?

He was asking, not saying it works like that :)
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2022-10-04 19:15:03  
Yeah it was a question, definitely not a statement.

I organized my inventory and noticed that I had most of a WAR sitting there. Why not make a lua and play it?
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By Lederic 2022-10-10 11:43:29  
Is the new Boii Earring +1 / +2 versions both BIS for tp?
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2022-10-10 12:02:59  
Lederic said: »
Is the new Boii Earring +1 / +2 versions both BIS for tp?
Like everything in this game would depend on the rest of your set and buffs, but yes there is sets it would be good in.
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By Sylph.Timepassesbye 2022-10-10 12:34:34  
Lederic said: »
Is the new Boii Earring +1 / +2 versions both BIS for tp?

That would also entirely depend on the augments you got. If your build already has you sitting at 100% DA and you're lacking store TP, then there's your answer. Personally, I got a +1, and I fit it into my TP build, but I did have to tweak a few things to make it work.

If your warrior is basically already BIS, then you need to play with optimization. The crit rate is certainly a plus, as well as the STR if you managed to get a 15 augment. That would also make it entirely competitive for certain weapon skills.
 Carbuncle.Yiazmaat
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By Carbuncle.Yiazmaat 2022-10-10 18:29:04  
Lederic said: »
Is the new Boii Earring +1 / +2 versions both BIS for tp?
ItemSet 387461

The +2 earring allow ukon am3 users to use boii calligae +2/3 under blood rage wile keeping 100% DA, can also swap ammo for coiste (or belt for sailfi +1 and keep yetshila+1)
and Moonlight ring for Petrov and switch cape to à 10% crit rate and keep 100% DA. Can even add more crit rate if you're under ifrit favor and min/max even more.

Edit : basically open more room for min minmaxing other stats than DA and keep or push dps à little higher for any weapons war can use

New edit : do the math yourself
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By SimonSes 2022-10-10 18:40:10  
Carbuncle.Yiazmaat said: »
Lederic said: »
Is the new Boii Earring +1 / +2 versions both BIS for tp?
ItemSet 387461

The +2 earring allow ukon am3 users to use boii calligae +2/3 under blood rage wile keeping 100% DA, can also swap ammo for coiste (or belt for sailfi +1 and keep yetshila+1)
and Moonlight ring for Petrov and switch cape to à 10% crit rate and keep 100% DA. Can even add more crit rate if you're under ifrit favor and min/max even more.

Edit : basically open more room for min minmaxing other stats than DA and keep or push dps à little higher for any weapons war can use

If you not gonna use +3 relic legs for Ukon AM3, then you want to use empy+2 (+3 after update) with same DA/PDL (most likely more on +3) in this set. Overall Relic+3 is mostly better and requires less cRatio, but with empy+2/3 you at least get chance for set proc (which is extremely fun with Ukon :P), while with Sakpata you get "only" more survivability.
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 Carbuncle.Yiazmaat
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By Carbuncle.Yiazmaat 2022-10-11 06:47:45  
Oh ***yeah, thats agoge cuisses +3 my bad , then the DA% are wrong by 1% for every ukon sets lol
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By SimonSes 2022-10-11 07:21:20  
Carbuncle.Yiazmaat said: »
Oh ***yeah, thats agoge cuisses +3 my bad , then the DA% are wrong by 1% for every ukon sets lol

Can just use Petrov instead of Moonlight.
If you have enough attack the following is imo best Ukon set focus on white damage:

ItemSet 387471
*missing pieces are Boii +3
+32%PDL total though, so not for every occasion.
 Asura.Azagarth
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By Asura.Azagarth 2022-10-11 10:58:25  
would Rigorous Grip +1 not be better for general use in a ukon pdl set? Maybe a combo of using Khonsu allowing you to do a belt change might be viable too and more defensive?
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2022-10-13 17:12:52  
Hmm what are folks using for magic WS's like RLB / Seraph and Cloudsplitter? Currently I'm 5/5 nyame but looking at the accessory slots.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2022-10-13 17:25:12  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Hmm what are folks using for magic WS's like RLB / Seraph and Cloudsplitter? Currently I'm 5/5 nyame but looking at the accessory slots.
Code
sets.precast.WS['Cloudsplitter'] = {  ammo="Seething Bomblet +1",
   head="Nyame Helm",
    neck="Baetyl Pendant",
    ear1="Friomisi Earring",
    ear2="Moonshade Earring",
    body="Nyame Mail",
    hands="Nyame Gauntlets",
    ring1="Metamor. Ring +1",
    ring2="Epaminondas's Ring",
    back={ name="Cichol's Mantle", augments={'STR+20','Mag. Acc+20 /Mag. Dmg.+20','STR+10','Weapon skill damage +10%','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},
    waist="Orpheus's Sash",
    legs="Nyame Flanchard",
    feet="Nyame Sollerets"
}


Change neck to Sibyl Scarf for Red lotus blade
For Seraph use weatherspoon if you have it.

Edit:Seething Bomblet +1
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By fillerbunny9 2022-10-13 17:30:55  
is Tathlum better than Knobkierrie?
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