The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2010-06-21
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Asura.Lokimaru
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By Asura.Lokimaru 2013-02-19 13:05:02  
lordbirry said: »
hello a ls person showed me this forum because i just got my ukon. I would just like alil help since i never get invites to NNI or Legion runs. I will post my current gear set and maybe someone can tell me if im totally in left field or got a semi reasonable set

85 ukon
pole grip
Mekira-oto
twilight helm
rav hands +2
warrior legs +2
rav feet +2
chiv chain
atheling mantle
sentry belt
spiral ring
rajas ring
cassie earring
brutal earring
rav orb

and i only got about 600k gil ; ;


The biggest question here is

Are you fulltiming that set?

And also, how did you combine your Mekira-oto and your Twilight Helm, cuz I wanna do that.
 Fenrir.Leoheart
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By Fenrir.Leoheart 2013-02-19 13:08:30  
Looks like that's the only gear he has, since he has 2 helms listed.
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By lordbirry 2013-02-19 14:07:07  
oh lol yeah its the mekira-oto and twilight mail my bad. and that is just what i ws in. i do not really have alot of gear so i use the rav +2 set to build tp in and a goading belt
 Carbuncle.Tyleron
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By Carbuncle.Tyleron 2013-02-19 15:24:36  
Phoenix.Mikumaru said: »
i am curious about apathy > fort . i can understand the +2 vit (esp since i am taru :X ) but i would presume the 7 GA skill offers no benefit in any form ? i am planning on getting the twilight set as well as least a light belt (covers more WS) i would also presume a flame belt couldnt hurt . should i really try and get more or would light/dark/flame cover most/all ?

Generally the 2 vit > 7 acc/att from GA skill. If you are needing acc and don't want to make it up in other spots use ele neck.

If you dont have ukon just flame would cover you, as it works for MT and upheaval.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-19 17:00:58  
Phoenix.Mikumaru said: »
i am curious about apathy > fort . i can understand the +2 vit (esp since i am taru :X ) but i would presume the 7 GA skill offers no benefit in any form ? i am planning on getting the twilight set as well as least a light belt (covers more WS) i would also presume a flame belt couldnt hurt . should i really try and get more or would light/dark/flame cover most/all ?

Apathy Gorget > Fortitude Torque for any given situation. The only thing Fortitude offers over Apathy is the accuracy gain Great Axe skill offers. However, Apathy's VIT is too much in one slot to pass up, and the accuracy gained from using Oneiros Pebble, Ravager's Mask +2, either a Valkyrie's Breastplate or Twilight Mail (if you're not using Ares' or Ares' +1 Cuirass), and either an Elemental Belt (or Caudata Belt if you're attack's uncapped) should be more than enough.

Also, I'm not sure why people are saying it's 2 VIT vs 7 Great Axe Skill when Apathy Gorget actually has 4 more VIT than Fortitude Torque (which is a pretty substantial difference with Upheaval being a 100% VIT mod).
 Phoenix.Mikumaru
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By Phoenix.Mikumaru 2013-02-19 17:16:59  
That's my auto complete being a douche and me being at work not catching it ,sorry and thanx for the clarification.
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-02-20 01:32:12  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Continuation of Gear Sets



Upheaval Ukon+Bravura MAX


Dilaram's if no huginn. caudata belt if uncapped attack.

Willing to bet that Ares' +1 feet are going to beat Huginn in that set, given the set bonus, accuracy, and small amount of attack it has over the 1 VIT.
 Ramuh.Lorzy
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By Ramuh.Lorzy 2013-02-20 01:38:47  
lordbirry said: »
oh lol yeah its the mekira-oto and twilight mail my bad. and that is just what i ws in. i do not really have alot of gear so i use the rav +2 set to build tp in and a goading belt
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/35200/the-parthenon-a-warriors-kyklos#low
http://www.ffxiah.com/item-sets/282908

you can use a phasmida or maybe use goading with blitz for tp.
 Phoenix.Dramatica
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By Phoenix.Dramatica 2013-02-20 02:24:44  
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Continuation of Gear Sets



Upheaval Ukon+Bravura MAX


Dilaram's if no huginn. caudata belt if uncapped attack.

Willing to bet that Ares' +1 feet are going to beat Huginn in that set, given the set bonus, accuracy, and small amount of attack it has over the 1 VIT.
I don't think so unless capped fstr or uncapped acc. You're also not gaining attack, since Huginn has 9str. 2da 11acc vs 9str 1vit 3~atk
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2013-02-20 21:48:06  
So I decided to try to use the spreadsheets to check what Atmacite would be best for my Warrior, I assumed Lat+Valiant 100% of the time for obvious reasons and was only checking what third atmacite would be best. I checked Coercion (What the guide reccomends and a pretty common 3rd for most people), along with Deluges, Dark Designs, Eminence, Persistence, Tropics, and Depths. Oddly enough I found every Atmacite besides Coercion to add around the same DPS, while Coercion was about 10 DPS less. The exact numbers I got where:
Coercion: 608.
Deluges, Dark Design, Tropics: 617.
Eminence, Persistence, Depths: 618.
All on Qilin, with my gear, Marchx2 + Minuet + Haste + Chaos + Fighters and applicable JAs. I retested on Ig-Alimas stats and found no real change in DPS between Atmacites.

Given these numbers I looked at what other benefits these Atmacite give and Depths gives an extra Double Attack Sphere (2%) plus 15% HP. The only other I could see using would be Persistence which gives Accuracy+5 and PDT-5%. Just thought this information might be useful to people, maybe someone could double check and give their own thoughts.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-21 00:25:30  
Asura.Failaras said: »
So I decided to try to use the spreadsheets to check what Atmacite would be best for my Warrior, I assumed Lat+Valiant 100% of the time for obvious reasons and was only checking what third atmacite would be best. I checked Coercion (What the guide reccomends and a pretty common 3rd for most people), along with Deluges, Dark Designs, Eminence, Persistence, Tropics, and Depths. Oddly enough I found every Atmacite besides Coercion to add around the same DPS, while Coercion was about 10 DPS less. The exact numbers I got where:
Coercion: 608.
Deluges, Dark Design, Tropics: 617.
Eminence, Persistence, Depths: 618.
All on Qilin, with my gear, Marchx2 + Minuet + Haste + Chaos + Fighters and applicable JAs. I retested on Ig-Alimas stats and found no real change in DPS between Atmacites.

Given these numbers I looked at what other benefits these Atmacite give and Depths gives an extra Double Attack Sphere (2%) plus 15% HP. The only other I could see using would be Persistence which gives Accuracy+5 and PDT-5%. Just thought this information might be useful to people, maybe someone could double check and give their own thoughts.

Deluges would be the correct choice for Bismarck and Morta, or zerging Provenance Watcher with Mighty Strikes, assuming you're not using Ragnarok and spamming Upheaval with either Bravura, Ukonvasara, or Conqueror.

As far as Coercion goes, it really depends on how quickly you're getting to 100% TP. You were receiving two Marches, so you'd be getting there too quickly for the Regain from Coercion to make a difference (assuming you're WSing immediately at 100%). Therefore, you'd be better off using either Eminence or Persistence.
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By Kyler 2013-02-21 00:39:32  
Deluges allows for an easy 5 hit with bravura and doubles as a modifier for upheaval and even some DA to boot. Also allows a 6 hit with rag with little to no gear sacrifice.

IE. being able to TP in windbuffet and typical multi hit gear
 Asura.Failaras
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By Asura.Failaras 2013-02-21 02:55:24  
Quote:
Deluges would be the correct choice for Bismarck and Morta, or zerging Provenance Watcher with Mighty Strikes, assuming you're not using Ragnarok and spamming Upheaval with either Bravura, Ukonvasara, or Conqueror.
I didn't even think about Upheaval in my analysis since I have a Ragnarok, but yes Deluges would definitely be the best in an Upheaval situation. I also did this analysis only for GA, I'm pretty sure it's a total given that Dark Designs is the best third atma for Ragnarok damage output.

Quote:
Deluges allows for an easy 5 hit with bravura and doubles as a modifier for upheaval and even some DA to boot. Also allows a 6 hit with rag with little to no gear sacrifice.
Pretty sure you can 6 hit with a Ragnarok with no sacrifice anyways, no? Armadaberk+Rajas+Tyrant+Brutal in TP and Rajas+Brutal in WS plus 1 tic of Monarchs Drink.
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By Solegna 2013-02-26 10:23:15  
Wheres the drk guide?!
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By Althyk 2013-02-26 10:24:35  
Solegna said: »
Wheres the drk guide?!
In the DRK thread...
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By Solegna 2013-02-26 10:46:33  
Althyk said: »
Solegna said: »
Wheres the drk guide?!
In the DRK thread...
How about that
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By Phorcys 2013-02-26 11:40:22  
Solegna said: »
Althyk said: »
Solegna said: »
Wheres the drk guide?!
In the DRK thread...
How about that

You may never be as successful a troll as This Guy, but hey, at least you've got a response in this post!

Good job br0!
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By Solegna 2013-02-26 11:44:25  
Phorcys said: »
Solegna said: »
Althyk said: »
Solegna said: »
Wheres the drk guide?!
In the DRK thread...
How about that

You may never be as successful a troll as This Guy, but hey, at least you've got a response in this post!

Good job br0!

I wasn't trolling ***. I'm not very forum savvy seeing as how I don't spend 90% of my day on one.
 Valefor.Sehachan
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By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-26 11:45:32  
You don't need 90% of your day, just less than a minute to check which forum you're in, go to the the dark knight one and see if there's a guide.
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By Solegna 2013-02-26 11:46:59  
Valefor.Sehachan said: »
You don't need 90% of your day, just less than a minute to check which forum you're in, go to the the dark knight one and see if there's a guide.

See that's the thing. I didn't even know there were different forum sections. I just thought it was under one huge general section.
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-02-26 14:44:34  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »

MDT MAX


Laeradr Helm and Mujin stud swapped in for the Merman's and Ogier's.

Edit: If this post wasn't pedantic enough, Feverish Korazin over Assault Breastplate in the fire resist max hah
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By Phorcys 2013-02-28 05:48:30  
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »

MDT MAX


Laeradr Helm and Mujin stud swapped in for the Merman's and Ogier's.

Edit: If this post wasn't pedantic enough, Feverish Korazin over Assault Breastplate in the fire resist max hah

Laeradr Helm indeed would be an upgrade to that set. WAR can't equip Mujin Stud though. Feverish Korazin would also be an upgrade from Assault Breastplate in a fire resistance build. Looks like Ejiin's going to have some editing to do to his original post.
 Bismarck.Stani
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By Bismarck.Stani 2013-03-02 21:55:06  
Kyler said: »
Deluges allows for an easy 5 hit with bravura and doubles as a modifier for upheaval and even some DA to boot. Also allows a 6 hit with rag with little to no gear sacrifice.

IE. being able to TP in windbuffet and typical multi hit gear

I've been playing with the idea of 5-hitting Ukon with Deluges+Coercion+Latitude. The high end Store TP gear we have access to today is not only usually accompanied by decent melee power stats, but usually haste too. 15 sTP is a way bigger deal than 5% haste. Especially with Latitude already on and easing up the haste requirements a little. The All Stats +15 on Valiant is probably a wash with 3% DA on Deluges, maybe a slight edge to the stats.

Ukon/*/*/*
Phorcys/*/Brutal/Kokou
*/*/Rajas/*
*/Goading/*/*

That's the relevant Store TP gear, no real sacrifices made, and you drop an entire hit off your build. With Champion's, Latitude TP bonus, and mostly active Warcry/Blood Rage, that's something I think would weigh out dropping a little haste and getting a little something else.

Note: 1 tic of Coercion+Monarch used, main hit of Ukon only for 17.6 TP return.
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By Yandaime 2013-03-03 15:10:33  
Bismarck.Stani said: »
Kyler said: »
Deluges allows for an easy 5 hit with bravura and doubles as a modifier for upheaval and even some DA to boot. Also allows a 6 hit with rag with little to no gear sacrifice.

IE. being able to TP in windbuffet and typical multi hit gear

I've been playing with the idea of 5-hitting Ukon with Deluges+Coercion+Latitude. The high end Store TP gear we have access to today is not only usually accompanied by decent melee power stats, but usually haste too. 15 sTP is a way bigger deal than 5% haste. Especially with Latitude already on and easing up the haste requirements a little. The All Stats +15 on Valiant is probably a wash with 3% DA on Deluges, maybe a slight edge to the stats.

Ukon/*/*/*
Phorcys/*/Brutal/Kokou
*/*/Rajas/*
*/Goading/*/*

That's the relevant Store TP gear, no real sacrifices made, and you drop an entire hit off your build. With Champion's, Latitude TP bonus, and mostly active Warcry/Blood Rage, that's something I think would weigh out dropping a little haste and getting a little something else.

Note: 1 tic of Coercion+Monarch used, main hit of Ukon only for 17.6 TP return.

I've been using a 5/4 Atmacite set with Ukko's fury in Void watch and I've been pretty happy with the results. Its very hard to beat such a large increase in WS frequency, but since its VW, some might argue against it since there's usually a good supply of wings with a good group. But even so, in the parses lately, I've only lost to top notch SAMs and Rag DRKs (Desperate Blows is cheating).
Its possible to 5/4 UF outside as well but someone would need to run the spreadsheet on it to see how it fairs. You would need to full time Osier Hands, Goading Belt and Houyi's Gorget, and some other items but compared to the large gain in WS frequency, I think it'd be worth it. Probably not a good idea in Legion where everything's evasion and defense are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE but anything that's Normal? I see potential. Could anyone spreadsheet savvy check this out? :)
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By Phorcys 2013-03-04 15:21:31  
Great job on keeping the posts on the first page edited and up to date with what's optimal Ejiin. I use this thread as a reference for upcoming WAR I meet seeking job advice.
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By Yandaime 2013-03-06 02:22:17  
Yandaime said: »
Its possible to 5/4 UF outside as well but someone would need to run the spreadsheet on it to see how it fairs. You would need to full time Osier Hands, Goading Belt and Houyi's Gorget, and some other items but compared to the large gain in WS frequency, I think it'd be worth it. Probably not a good idea in Legion where everything's evasion and defense are HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE but anything that's Normal? I see potential. Could anyone spreadsheet savvy check this out? :)

Lately I've been tinkering around with the Idea of WAR's next level of progression being 5/4 builds and I pieced together what I believe is a very powerful 5/4 Ukko's Fury Build:

TP Set


WS Set


The TP set trades off a very small amount of attack compared to the Optimal 6/5 but compared to 20% TP per hit? Easily worth it.

The WS set needs to have 44 total STP to gain 20% TP return with both hits connected; therefore, some side-grading must be done. This proposed set keeps the WS pieces that are Most Vital to Ukko's Fury while trading off one good item (Hecatomb Hands +1) and two mediocre Items (Gorget/Windbuffet) to keep the needed STP and still allow plenty of flexibility for flipping the Head/Legs/Back around as desired.

I would run this set in the suggested Spread Sheet but I haven't figured out how to edit values in that thing yet, so please forgive me but I cant provide DPS Values for these sets. But I am confident that these are good and I want to know what you guys think about it.

Edit:
Meant for Rancorous Mantle to be the back piece in WS set, not Atheling
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-03-06 02:37:06  
Yandaime said: »


By changing from the current best sets to those you're really only shaving off ~.6 rounds per weaponskill. It really isn't worth it.

You're also losing quite a bit of accuracy, attack, DEX, and STR, so as you move up from fodder the sets you posted just start to fall even more behind.

The sets you posted are also very, very far behind (that weaponskill set just makes me want to puke). Even if you make the best changes you can for a 5-hit it just isn't worth it.

and just for fun (read: to show you how far off you were)
That's about the best I can seem to get with a 5-hit (you may be able to get slightly better, but it really doesn't matter and I'm too tired to mess with things right now). Yet, that's even behind on fodder with 0 haste buffs, which is honestly the only situation I can think of where a 5-hit would have any kind of merit.
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By Yandaime 2013-03-06 03:41:18  
Odin.Registry said: »
By changing from the current best sets to those you're really only shaving off ~.6 rounds per weaponskill. It really isn't worth it.

You're also losing quite a bit of accuracy, attack, DEX, and STR, so as you move up from fodder the sets you posted just start to fall even more behind.

The sets you posted are also very, very far behind (that weaponskill set is just absolutely terrible). Even if you make the best changes you can for a 5-hit it just isn't worth it.

Ukon Delay: 482
Delay after Haste Gear: 361
Attack Speed 6.01 sec/Swing
Time til 100~TP 6-hit: 36.06 sec first 6 // 30.05 sec next 5
Time til 100~Tp 5-hit: 30.05 sec first // 24.04 sec next 4
30.05 sec vs 24.04 sec = 20% Decrease Before DA/Retaliation

Forgive me but I'm failing to understand how getting 100~ TP 20% Faster Before Double Attacks "Isn't Worth It". Its always been the forefront of DD debates that "Faster is better". This set will do less melee Damage than the current best 6/5 but were already at the point where we do more WS Damage than Melee Damage anyway. Switching to a 5/4 Increases WS frequency greatly, allowing us to throw the heavy hits much more often, especially when we have heavy Double Attack traits which will grant spikes of 40% TP often. Not to mention retaliation lol.
The TP set is very close to what most WARs of all levels 6/5 in so the only place where this set would have Acc/Attack issues is in Legion; which is specifically designed to be the highest tier of HNM play. You cant even approach the deeper areas of Legion without a full set of buffs, everywhere else? Just another day in the neighborhood.
As for the WS set being "Terrible". Weapon Skilling is a game of Moderate increases. The Pieces traded are Hecatomb Mittens +1 Claymore Grip Ravager's Orb Ele Gorget and Ele/Windbuffet Belt. Of the Items listed, the two that have the largest impact by far are the Mittens and Grip. The WS Average will suffer but not "Terribly" and the increase of WSs will make up the difference.
It's just like watching a Fulgurante OAT DRK going crazy with his/her 5/4 Build. They Don't stop spamming lol I think being able to spam the ***out of Ukko's Fury is a worthwhile goal

Edit: To Clarify, I'm talking 5/4 hit not 5-hit
The TP set you posted merely increases your DA by 1%, and Increase is an Increase is an Increase but that's still not a "How Far off I was" Kinda Thing.
The WS set you posted only has a total 39 STP where you need 44. That set will not function unless you eat Carbonarra and I'd rather not give up the Red Curry Buns, personally
 Cerberus.Mindi
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By Cerberus.Mindi 2013-03-06 04:05:17  
what is "I'm talking 5/4 hit"? you mean 4 Tp hits 1 ws i guess right? never heard it called that way lol
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By Yandaime 2013-03-06 04:07:10  
Really? Ive always heard x-hit builds refered to as x/y but could be a server thing maybe

Edit:
5 Hits Initial TP Phase >> WS (20% TP Return) >> 4 Hits WS >> Repeat
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