The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2010-06-21
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-02-15 18:09:11  
Carbuncle.Tyleron said: »
I have always wanted to know how much ahead ukon 99 is compared to brav 99 if you assume only AM1 can be maintained. 10% better 20% more? Has anyone compared?

Its not that ukon is that much better, its that ukko's is. So its mostly about how much more it does over upheaval.

When I've done comparisons between them its a good 5% on things like ig-alima.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2013-02-15 18:14:22  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
They aren't that potent to begin with due to the bonus only adding WSDMG from the first hit of an attack round.

That's because of the mirrored ftp i would imagine, a really high ftp ws with 1-2 hits would benefit a lot more.
That has nothing to do with anything I've said.
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-02-15 18:18:05  
mortontony1 said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Leaving Rancor Collar on in Legion automatically makes it a terrible set. Your DPS is 0 while you're dead.

People still make this argument?

Please explain how this argument is in any way invalid? For the portions of Legion where you're not already in a hybrid, I really can't see any argument for tacking on +10% damage taken on top of that.
 Fenrir.Thandar
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By Fenrir.Thandar 2013-02-15 18:26:00  
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
mortontony1 said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Leaving Rancor Collar on in Legion automatically makes it a terrible set. Your DPS is 0 while you're dead.

People still make this argument?

Please explain how this argument is in any way invalid? For the portions of Legion where you're not already in a hybrid, I really can't see any argument for tacking on +10% damage taken on top of that.

It's only 10% damage if you're taking damage. Lrn2GearSwap
 Odin.Jassik
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-02-15 18:31:37  
Ramuh.Austar said: »
Odin.Jassik said: »
Ramuh.Austar said: »
They aren't that potent to begin with due to the bonus only adding WSDMG from the first hit of an attack round.
That's because of the mirrored ftp i would imagine, a really high ftp ws with 1-2 hits would benefit a lot more.
That has nothing to do with anything I've said.

oh, you're talking about the loss in white damage for a neglidgable increase to WS damage. I read that wrong.
 Phoenix.Lithical
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By Phoenix.Lithical 2013-02-15 18:44:28  
Fenrir.Thandar said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
mortontony1 said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Leaving Rancor Collar on in Legion automatically makes it a terrible set. Your DPS is 0 while you're dead.

People still make this argument?

Please explain how this argument is in any way invalid? For the portions of Legion where you're not already in a hybrid, I really can't see any argument for tacking on +10% damage taken on top of that.

It's only 10% damage if you're taking damage. Lrn2GearSwap
+10%DT is significant, and isn't that the whole reason for portus collar? And would rancor collar really be worth it on such crit evasive mobs?
 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-02-15 18:45:44  
Quote:
It's only 10% damage if you're taking damage. Lrn2GearSwap

It's almost like there's high 1-shot potential in Legion. Although I'm intrigued by post mortem gear swapping if that's a thing now.
 Fenrir.Thandar
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By Fenrir.Thandar 2013-02-15 18:51:00  
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Quote:
It's only 10% damage if you're taking damage. Lrn2GearSwap

It's almost like there's high 1-shot potential in Legion. Although I'm intrigued by post mortem gear swapping if that's a thing now.

So this is the part where I say the same thing I said, and you keep saying the same thing you said because you're in here to hear that you're right.

Don't wear Rancor collar then, I couldn't care less.
 Phoenix.Lithical
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By Phoenix.Lithical 2013-02-15 18:57:25  
Fenrir.Thandar said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Quote:
It's only 10% damage if you're taking damage. Lrn2GearSwap

It's almost like there's high 1-shot potential in Legion. Although I'm intrigued by post mortem gear swapping if that's a thing now.

So this is the part where I say the same thing I said, and you keep saying the same thing you said because you're in here to hear that you're right.

Don't wear Rancor collar then, I couldn't care less.
Not that I play DDs, but again, is your argument to tp in rancor even valid cause the mobs are so crit evasive?
 Fenrir.Thandar
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By Fenrir.Thandar 2013-02-15 18:58:19  
Phoenix.Lithical said: »
Fenrir.Thandar said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Quote:
It's only 10% damage if you're taking damage. Lrn2GearSwap

It's almost like there's high 1-shot potential in Legion. Although I'm intrigued by post mortem gear swapping if that's a thing now.

So this is the part where I say the same thing I said, and you keep saying the same thing you said because you're in here to hear that you're right.

Don't wear Rancor collar then, I couldn't care less.
Not that I play DDs, but again, is your argument to tp in rancor even valid cause the mobs are so crit evasive?

Not every mob in legion is crit evasive.
 Phoenix.Lithical
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By Phoenix.Lithical 2013-02-15 18:58:42  
Just the mobs people care about parsing
 Asura.Fondue
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By Asura.Fondue 2013-02-15 19:34:22  
Fenrir.Thandar said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
mortontony1 said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Leaving Rancor Collar on in Legion automatically makes it a terrible set. Your DPS is 0 while you're dead.

People still make this argument?

Please explain how this argument is in any way invalid? For the portions of Legion where you're not already in a hybrid, I really can't see any argument for tacking on +10% damage taken on top of that.

It's only 10% damage if you're taking damage. Lrn2GearSwap

I guess if you gear poorly enough and never stand on the same side as other dd the mob will never spin to swing at you and you can tp in full clown gear with rancor collar and its not a problem
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 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-02-15 19:59:57  
Asura.Fondue said: »
Fenrir.Thandar said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
mortontony1 said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Leaving Rancor Collar on in Legion automatically makes it a terrible set. Your DPS is 0 while you're dead.

People still make this argument?

Please explain how this argument is in any way invalid? For the portions of Legion where you're not already in a hybrid, I really can't see any argument for tacking on +10% damage taken on top of that.

It's only 10% damage if you're taking damage. Lrn2GearSwap

I guess if you gear poorly enough and never stand on the same side as other dd the mob will never spin to swing at you and you can tp in full clown gear with rancor collar and its not a problem

10% damage just isn't going to matter until Mul, and you aren't using Rancor in Mul anyway.

Okay, maybe on wave 2 pony, but you're gonna get oneshotted with or without rancor, I guess.
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 Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-02-15 20:02:59  
Feral Peck too.
 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-02-15 20:15:19  
That's easy enough to stun, though.
 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-02-15 20:18:31  
Kinda silly willingly TPing in Rancor on something that can 1-shot just because it *might* be stunned.
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 Odin.Registry
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By Odin.Registry 2013-02-15 20:20:32  
I don't think I've ever been hit with peck (that may be because my WAR's ***, but you know... it could also be because awesome SCHs ;;).
 Bismarck.Llewelyn
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By Bismarck.Llewelyn 2013-02-15 20:21:37  
I haven't even seen it attempt Feral Peck in a while, so I don't remember its loading time, but I still wouldn't do it. ;x
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By Kyler 2013-02-15 21:07:42  
It's a pointless thing to discuss over a forum in which most of us don't interact together anyway.

If you feel safe, and rancor is best use rancor.

If you can't gear swap/don't trust mages/can't avoid or anticipate TP moves/whatever reason.... Use whatever is second best.

Teaching good practices is better than blanket statements like...
don't use rancor in legion
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 Carbuncle.Tyleron
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By Carbuncle.Tyleron 2013-02-15 23:15:19  
Odin.Jassik said: »
Carbuncle.Tyleron said: »
I have always wanted to know how much ahead ukon 99 is compared to brav 99 if you assume only AM1 can be maintained. 10% better 20% more? Has anyone compared?

Its not that ukon is that much better, its that ukko's is. So its mostly about how much more it does over upheaval.

When I've done comparisons between them its a good 5% on things like ig-alima.

I realize ukkos is better my question is has any one compared both weapons total dmg (tp phase and ws) assuming you only get access to AM1 on ukon? To try and reflect future setup post embrava nerf.

I assume ukon 99 is way better but by how much?
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By Phorcys 2013-02-16 00:47:13  
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
mortontony1 said: »
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Leaving Rancor Collar on in Legion automatically makes it a terrible set. Your DPS is 0 while you're dead.

People still make this argument?

Please explain how this argument is in any way invalid? For the portions of Legion where you're not already in a hybrid, I really can't see any argument for tacking on +10% damage taken on top of that.

^This. Rancor Collar is for when you're fighting monsters which don't deal overwhelming amounts of damage. Against anything that does, you'd be using a Hybrid DD/PDT/MDT build, and their's no room in a Hybrid build for Rancor Collar to begin with. You'd be using either Wiglen Gorget or Twilight Torque depending on whether you need PDT, MDT, or a combination of both.

Legion and Odin's Chamber II would be the events to use a Hybrid build, so the "I don't use Rancor items due to DT+10%" argument is null and void.

Odin.Registry said: »

10% damage just isn't going to matter until Mul, and you aren't using Rancor in Mul anyway.

Okay, maybe on wave 2 pony, but you're gonna get oneshotted with or without rancor, I guess.

^This. That's what Spellcast is for. Rancor Collar for anything without critical evasion, otherwise, use Portus Collar. Neither when using a Hybrid build for survivability. Beyond that, if the risk of being one shotted is still too great, you should be using Perfect Defense, and at that point the whole DT+10% taken from using Rancor Collar obviously wouldn't matter.

Their's two types of players. Those who maximize and those who don't. How much a player maximizes is what determines how far the two are apart.
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 Phoenix.Suji
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-02-16 02:03:28  
Phorcys said: »
Their's two types of players. Those who maximize and those who don't. How much a player maximizes is what determines how far the two are apart.
And yet some are blinded by their own attempts at maximization and end up hurting the alliance's DPS instead.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-16 02:07:36  
Phoenix.Suji said: »
Phorcys said: »
Their's two types of players. Those who maximize and those who don't. How much a player maximizes is what determines how far the two are apart.
And yet some are blinded by their own attempts at maximization and end up hurting the alliance's DPS instead.

^This. Apologized for the pre-emptive engage on PW two nights ago. Figured once our PT was fully buffed, we'd be in the clear to engage. I was wrong though, and apologized for it. We won and it was pretty smooth, so in the end it wasn't all that bad.
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 Phoenix.Ayrendel
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By Phoenix.Ayrendel 2013-02-16 03:41:37  
Kyler said: »
It's a pointless thing to discuss over a forum in which most of us don't interact together anyway.

If you feel safe, and rancor is best use rancor.

If you can't gear swap/don't trust mages/can't avoid or anticipate TP moves/whatever reason.... Use whatever is second best.

Teaching good practices is better than blanket statements like...
don't use rancor in legion

The poor blanket statement to teach would be to use Rancor Collar in Legion. The vast majority of the time it is a terrible idea. Also, if we're going to pretend like Legion != Mul, I retract all previous statements and good luck farming the lower halls.

Edit: Earlier it was stated that we were just repeating ourselves hoping to be confirmed that we are right. This is false. I was giving real situations based on experience in which Rancor Collar would be a bad idea. In response I received, "lrn2gearswap" and "people still think that?" This thread is for discussion and advice on optimizing WAR. I don't care if people I don't know and that aren't in my LS use Rancor, but that doesn't change that it seems like bad advice to me. Also, it doesn't change that there is apparently a rift in ideology on the subject that warrants a discussion (Saying "lol" or "you're wrong" is not a discussion). At the end of the day, I currently bring DRK to Legion on my own character, but I have and will continue to tell those that do play warrior in my alliances to put their *** Portus collars on.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-16 03:53:07  
Phoenix.Ayrendel said: »
Also, if we're going to pretend like Legion != Mul, I retract all previous statements and good luck farming the lower halls.

^This. So many times do I see people automatically assuming all of Legion = Mul. Mul is only one hall. It's not all of Legion and not every mob within Mul even has crit evasion (although most mobs within Mul are in fact Paramount, and do possess the trait).
 Phoenix.Chomeymatt
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By Phoenix.Chomeymatt 2013-02-16 04:14:36  
Phorcys said: »
Phoenix.Suji said: »
Phorcys said: »
Their's two types of players. Those who maximize and those who don't. How much a player maximizes is what determines how far the two are apart.
And yet some are blinded by their own attempts at maximization and end up hurting the alliance's DPS instead.

^This. Apologized for the pre-emptive engage on PW two nights ago. Figured once our PT was fully buffed, we'd be in the clear to engage. I was wrong though, and apologized for it. We won and it was pretty smooth, so in the end it wasn't all that bad.

Lol'd.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-16 04:24:40  
Phoenix.Chomeymatt said: »
Phorcys said: »
Phoenix.Suji said: »
Phorcys said: »
Their's two types of players. Those who maximize and those who don't. How much a player maximizes is what determines how far the two are apart.
And yet some are blinded by their own attempts at maximization and end up hurting the alliance's DPS instead.

^This. Apologized for the pre-emptive engage on PW two nights ago. Figured once our PT was fully buffed, we'd be in the clear to engage. I was wrong though, and apologized for it. We won and it was pretty smooth, so in the end it wasn't all that bad.

Lol'd.

Apparently half of Phoenix laughed right along with you :O
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2013-02-16 08:56:59  
So you guys are not using hybrid set in non mul legion ? I'm curious, what does your kill numbers looks like ?
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By Kyler 2013-02-16 16:30:32  
The only thing I fulltime hybrid build on in legion or anything for that matter is that *** turtle in An. Because being double attacked 1 shotted is just gay. Aside from that I swap between all my sets(TP/acc/hybrid/fulldt/mdt w/e) depending on what my own buffs are like.

Anticipating mobs TP moves like dancing tail from zilant (You can just check for chat log and move to the side and it won't even hit you or anyone for that matter) is going to be much more beneficial to your groups performance than not dying because you fulltime hybrid sets. And before "I can't see and swap gear fast enough", I'm always running a parser so I don't have any filters on and I can name the occasions on 1 hand in which I have totally missed a mob readying something. Read more gooder.
Turn effects on, giant orange lines are pretty easy to spot. You can also monitor the cycles that mobs go through of casting > Tp move etc etc. If you strip all the other *** away, they become pretty predictable.

if you don't have the current attention of the mob, there are a lot you can get away with wearing whatever you want. The goal isn't to minimize mp usage of the whms its to kill as many mobs in the most efficient way as possible. If the mages are running low and waiting on new ballads or something maybe ill switch to hybrid then, but they have mp pools for a reason.


I'd say at least 50% of the time in ANY hall (Inlcuding all waves of mul) I'm using my regular TP set or acc set when I don't have the mobs attention and I hover over my hybrid or pdt and flip it on before a mob uses a TP move or if I get hate.
 Asura.Ccl
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By Asura.Ccl 2013-02-16 16:54:59  
and with all that you didn't answer my question about kill number !
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