The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2010-06-21
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By Yandaime 2013-01-30 21:05:40  
Hmmm well then, this raises a question. Since SE has started making NMs that are more resilient to Critical attacks, Would it be worthwhile to switch my 12 DEX Merits to 12 VIT for Upheaval in the times where Crits aren't working? Or just keep the DEX merits for overall situational Crit Rate?

My Apologies if this was covered already but the Forums need to be... Reinvented... so that we can somehow spot if the question we are about to ask has already been answered while typing the question lol
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By Fenrir.Thandar 2013-01-30 21:16:47  
I would assume that losing the DEX isn't worth it for the very few mobs that are crit resistant, also Resolution.
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By Yandaime 2013-01-31 03:23:34  
Ragnarok.Ejiin said: »
Conqueror
Cons:
• No decent crit. weapon skill to take advantage of berserk’s augment.
Love your work on this thread btw, just wanted to point out that Ukko's Fury and Raging Rush are virtually identical in Damage potential.

Ukko's Fury: 60% STR 2-hit, 2.0 ftp = 3.0 ftp total// 20%|35%|55%
Raging Rush: 35% STR 3-hit, 1.0 ftp = 3.0 ftp total// 15%|30%|50%

The two differences:
25% STR Mod, which is actually quite small, even considering the +20 STR gained from 99 Ukon
5% Crit Rate, which is overcome in droves with berserk up with Conqueror

Ukko's Fury will still have the higher WS potential but I think Raging Rush with Conqueror (Berserk) will more than prove solid for a Crit WS, since the two are almost tied as is
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By Fenrir.Evildemon 2013-01-31 15:55:29  
You'd like to think that but I have never seen my Raging Rush do anywhere near my Ukko's fury even when I hit the wrong macro.
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By Odin.Sawtelle 2013-01-31 16:26:54  
Assuming you use both WS in sets with about 200 str, Ukko's is about 18% ahead of RR (assuming you use both with a 99 ukon, I assume the numbers would be closer w/ ukon vs conq).
(156+17+200*.6*.85)/(156+17+200*.35*.85)= 1.183
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By Lakshmi.Byrth 2013-01-31 16:34:02  
Also, the 200 and 300 TP crit rates are based on N<30 WSs, if I remember right.
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By Cerberus.Taint 2013-01-31 16:43:23  
Yandaime said: »
Hmmm well then, this raises a question. Since SE has started making NMs that are more resilient to Critical attacks, Would it be worthwhile to switch my 12 DEX Merits to 12 VIT for Upheaval in the times where Crits aren't working? Or just keep the DEX merits for overall situational Crit Rate? My Apologies if this was covered already but the Forums need to be... Reinvented... so that we can somehow spot if the question we are about to ask has already been answered while typing the question lol


12 dex is 9 acc. Crit down mobs are generally where ACC is also a major concern.
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By Yandaime 2013-01-31 22:28:46  
Odin.Sawtelle said: »
Assuming you use both WS in sets with about 200 str, Ukko's is about 18% ahead of RR (assuming you use both with a 99 ukon, I assume the numbers would be closer w/ ukon vs conq).
(156+17+200*.6*.85)/(156+17+200*.35*.85)= 1.183

Yea, Ukko's is definitely stronger but as we all know, with Crit WSs, if the Crits don't land, the WS tends to... *Poot* so if nothing else, Conqueror Berserk + Raging Rush gives you a higher Crit rate than Ukko's so It'll more likely even out I would think in situations where you might worry about the Crit rate.

{Edit}
Raging Rush isnt a bad WS is all I'm getting at really, and Conqueror just makes it even better
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By Carbuncle.Anesthesia 2013-01-31 22:32:58  
Yandaime said: »
Odin.Sawtelle said: »
Assuming you use both WS in sets with about 200 str, Ukko's is about 18% ahead of RR (assuming you use both with a 99 ukon, I assume the numbers would be closer w/ ukon vs conq).
(156+17+200*.6*.85)/(156+17+200*.35*.85)= 1.183

Yea, Ukko's is definitely stronger but as we all know, with Crit WSs, if the Crits don't land, the WS tends to... *Poot* so if nothing else, Conqueror Berserk + Raging Rush gives you a higher Crit rate than Ukko's so It'll more likely even out I would think in situations where you might worry about the Crit rate.

{Edit}
Raging Rush isnt a bad WS is all I'm getting at really, and Conqueror just makes it even better


Why would Conqueror berserk give you a higher crit rate?
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By Odin.Hirokei 2013-01-31 22:36:08  
Carbuncle.Anesthesia said: »
Yandaime said: »
Odin.Sawtelle said: »
Assuming you use both WS in sets with about 200 str, Ukko's is about 18% ahead of RR (assuming you use both with a 99 ukon, I assume the numbers would be closer w/ ukon vs conq).
(156+17+200*.6*.85)/(156+17+200*.35*.85)= 1.183

Yea, Ukko's is definitely stronger but as we all know, with Crit WSs, if the Crits don't land, the WS tends to... *Poot* so if nothing else, Conqueror Berserk + Raging Rush gives you a higher Crit rate than Ukko's so It'll more likely even out I would think in situations where you might worry about the Crit rate.

{Edit}
Raging Rush isnt a bad WS is all I'm getting at really, and Conqueror just makes it even better


Why would Conqueror berserk give you a higher crit rate?
Conqueror gives like a 14% crit rate boost to Berserk.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-01 08:09:47  
How does Caudata Belt stack up against an Elemental Belt for Upheaval?
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By Odin.Hirokei 2013-02-01 11:16:34  
Phorcys said: »
How does Caudata Belt stack up against an Elemental Belt for Upheaval?
If you need the attack it will pull ahead by a fair margin, otherwise Elemental will win.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-02-01 11:57:26  
Odin.Hirokei said: »
Phorcys said: »
How does Caudata Belt stack up against an Elemental Belt for Upheaval?
If you need the attack it will pull ahead by a fair margin, otherwise Elemental will win.

Upheaval doesn't have an attack penalty that i remember, I'd wager anytime you are short on attack you are short on acc as well, and for ukon war, the only time to use upheaval is on mobs with critical defense bonus or during mighty strikes. Seems like for ukon war there is virtually no time when caudata beats elemental.
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By Odin.Hirokei 2013-02-01 12:07:12  
Well it has 10 ws acc on it..
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By Phorcys 2013-02-01 12:25:39  
So Caudatal Belt wins when attack is uncapped, and Elemental Belt wins when attack is?
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By Odin.Hirokei 2013-02-01 12:29:45  
Phorcys said: »
So Caudatal Belt wins when attack is uncapped, and Elemental Belt wins when attack is?
Yeah
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By Phorcys 2013-02-01 15:44:22  
I've got a question regarding gearing for capped and uncapped attack and Spellcast. What is the general rule of thumb when it comes to gearing for capped and uncapped attack? I understand every mob's defense values are different so how would I go about setting up Spellcast for it? Would I base whether or not gear's equipped on my attack value for most mobs or would I set having specific buffs being active as the trigger?

Example: I'd use Avant Cuisses +1 during Ukko's Fury when attack's not capped and Warrior's Cuisses +2 when it is. Would I set up Spellcast to equip my Avant Cuisses +1 if my attack is below x amount, with x amount being a general amount that would be capped for most mobs, or would it be better for me to setup Spellcast around certain buffs being active, like Berserk, Minuets, Chaos roll, etc.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-02-01 15:54:01  
I don't know if you can specify it that way, i have a few different rules based on status like voidwatcher or in certain zones, but mostly I've seen it done via variable toggle. Allows you to toggle between multiple sets, like acc, capped acc, capped att and acc or max. It would change over to preset gearsets you have. Probably could get away with just 3 sets for ukko's. And you just manually choose which set to use for a given target before you fight it or toggle to acc gear midfight if acc is an issue for example.
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By Odin.Hirokei 2013-02-01 15:56:45  
Phorcys said: »
I've got a question regarding gearing for capped and uncapped attack and Spellcast. What is the general rule of thumb when it comes to gearing for capped and uncapped attack? I understand every mob's defense values are different so how would I go about setting up Spellcast for it? Would I base whether or not gear's equipped on my attack value for most mobs or would I set having specific buffs being active as the trigger?

Example: I'd use Avant Cuisses +1 during Ukko's Fury when attack's not capped and Warrior's Cuisses +2 when it is. Would I set up Spellcast to equip my Avant Cuisses +1 if my attack is below x amount, with x amount being a general amount that would be capped for most mobs, or would it be better for me to setup Spellcast around certain buffs being active, like Berserk, Minuets, Chaos roll, etc.
I don't use spellcast, but I'd probably say attack+ gear for when you don't have rolls/songs/stalwarts. Probably even berserk down.

Edit: Guess you'd attatch that to being in legion and VW and still use capped attack set without any of those buffs in abyssea/fodder.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-01 16:04:57  
I already know how to make Spellcast do what I want it to, whether it's setup if spelltargetname="x", if buffactive="x", and if attack="x". What I'm wondering though is what's best when it comes to attack being capped/uncapped as a general rule of thumb so I can squeeze more damage out of my builds.

So would it be safe to say that as a general rule of thumb that in most situations, attack's capped when I have:

Berserk+Attack Boost
or
Berserk+Minuets
or
Berserk+Chaos Roll
or
Any combination of Attack Boost, Minuets, and Chaos Roll without Berserk

What about accuracy?
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-02-01 16:11:50  
Testing attack=whatever doesn't work, you need to either use buff heuristics for auto set selection or use a toggle like Jassik suggested.
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-02-01 16:21:44  
Its going to depend on the target, zerk rcb warcry even mins aren't going to cap your attack on everything. And if they don't, you'd be gearing for acc anyway. Attack vs accuracy builds start bleeding together, and you probably wouldn't be using ukko's at that point anyway, since most if those mobs will be hard to get a decent dDex and probably have crit evasion.

I fight things and look at my acc and damage and toggle in a different set if ours warranted.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-01 16:23:27  
I have my WS set to macros with Trigger1, 2, 3, etc. since I'm in my menus too much for full automation to work with my playstyle, so setting to buff heuristics will work for me.

What would be a good rule of thumb for accuracy?
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By Odin.Jassik 2013-02-01 16:34:43  
Phorcys said: »
I have my WS set to macros with Trigger1, 2, 3, etc. since I'm in my menus too much for full automation to work with my playstyle, so setting to buff heuristics will work for me.

What would be a good rule of thumb for accuracy?

Parse, if your acc is below 94% add some, see if it increases, add more if necessary. There are a lot of conditional sets listed in the thread, if the standard acc sets aren't cutting it, consider using madrigal or Hunters
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By Odin.Registry 2013-02-01 16:35:11  
If you're hitting things you're probably good, if you aren't hitting things you probably aren't good.

No but really:

Lower tier Legion stuff you're probably good with Hunter's/Mad and a mid-accuracy set.

Higher tier Legion stuff you're probably going to need a higher-accuracy set with Hunter's/Mad, and you might want to use Shiva too (white pony, harpy, t2 mul).

Qilin and below you're probably good with just stalwart's.

T6-ish stuff you're probably going to need a very-high-accuracy set because unless you know your BRD and COR you probably don't have jack for buffs.

edit: but honestly the easiest way (I think) is to just make two toggles, one that flips between high/low/mid attack and one that flips between high/low/mid accuracy and hit them when you think you need whatever.
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By dasanuffadat 2013-02-02 17:43:25  
Not sure if it's been pointed out or not in the 10 pages but it's Rogue's Roll not Rouge Roll ... I don't believe our Corsairs are modeled after Johny Depp :X
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By Fenrir.Thandar 2013-02-02 17:55:39  
That doesn't seem to have much to do with WAR.
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By Phorcys 2013-02-03 15:48:42  
I noticed BGwiki lists Magic Damage Taken -5% as a possible augment for Kaiser Diechlings but I'm starting to wonder whether or not that's correct. I've spent around 200 tatters trying for it and I haven't managed to get any higher than -4%.

Does anyone own a pair with -5% that can actually confirm it to be true? I'd hate to find out all those tatters were in vain.
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2013-02-03 16:33:56  
Phorcys said: »
I noticed BGwiki lists Magic Damage Taken -5% as a possible augment for Kaiser Diechlings but I'm starting to wonder whether or not that's correct. I've spent around 200 tatters trying for it and I haven't managed to get any higher than -4%.

Does anyone own a pair with -5% that can actually confirm it to be true? I'd hate to find out all those tatters were in vain.

I have a pair with -5% so it is true.
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By Phoenix.Suji 2013-02-03 17:07:13  
Phorcys said: »
I noticed BGwiki lists Magic Damage Taken -5% as a possible augment for Kaiser Diechlings but I'm starting to wonder whether or not that's correct. I've spent around 200 tatters trying for it and I haven't managed to get any higher than -4%.

Does anyone own a pair with -5% that can actually confirm it to be true? I'd hate to find out all those tatters were in vain.
If this is for your WAR's MDT set, how come you're stacking so much MDT-%? Just incase Shell gets dispelled?
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