The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

That was probably my brother, he was originally from Seraph but he transferred to Unicorn. Shortly before the server merge my brother had quit and I came to Bismarck (from Bahamut) with my character but under his name.

Af+3 head should not be a very strong piece for blade:shun.

Lets move that talk about Nin gear here Sechs haha (out of the Run thread)

So what do you think about the new Nin gear? Im not convinced :/ Maybe "Crappy" was too harsh a term but all the gear offers is TA/ACC/CritRate. If we talk about NQ pieces rather than HQ most of that is reachable by well augmented Herc no? With the difference that you can get Att on Herc as well. Sacrificing so much Att seems too much of a loss to me.

First let's list the gear for people who missed it

NQ

HQ
Premise: gonna talk about NQ set, as HQ will be out of reach for the majority of players for a long time.


Some things to notice now:
Default stats are in general higher (def, hp, meva, mdb, stats etc) with some exceptions here and there.
Haste values are slightly lower on Head/Hands/Feet but higher on Legs (same on body)
Please note especially the pretty high DEX values (which further convert into Acc).
The default acc values themselves are pretty high. The whole NQ set gives ~330 accuracy.
That might not be as good as PERFECT augs on Herc or some other gear (AF+3 etc), but by itself it's a pretty good amount, and you don't have to depend on a crappy random augment system.

Then you have TA values, which are slightly lower than what you can get on Herc on Head/Hands/Feet, but they're actually higher for Body and the same for Legs. Even though we shouldn't be comparing Kendatsuba legs to Herc legs, but to Perf Samnuha.
Regardless, not everybody has perf Samnuha and you can't snap your fingers and magically get them.
These legs instead, you can just craft or buy on AH, quite a big difference, no?

Another thing to consider is that you get ADDITIONAL crit hit rate on EACH piece. On Herc you don't get both except on body. It's either Crit OR TA.
It's quite a nice bonus.

Last but not least this set completely lacks attack, but I feel this might not be such a huge issue in a lot of situations.
With all that acc (and not having to depend on random rolls, or having to pick between high TA herc pieces OR high acc herc pieces) you will be able to eat meat on a lot of content, furthermore when you're in a zerg situation attack is gonna get capped regardless, plus don't forget Smite T2.


tl;dr
All in all I think it's quite a nice set for TPing in capped haste situations, some pieces are very nice options for mixed sets, and some pieces can be pretty nice for WS as well.
I think it might not be a mindblowing set but it's quite good per sè, especially so for people who lack good Herc augs. With this set coming out there's much less motivation to pursue them and you can save your stones for other purposes (WSD? Or other jobs)

Last but not least, dont' forget there is no set bonus so nobody forces you to go 5/5 on this set.
You could for instance just buy a couple of pieces where your Herc is lacking for instance, and use Herc in the rest if you got good augments.
I know I'm gonna like the body since my herc body augs are complete crapshit atm, will probably keep my 4% TA herc feet and hands, and will arguably use the head as well.
Legs I need to compare with my Samnuha Tights -1, wouldn't be surprised to see Kendatsuba win though.

And I forgot to mention, I feel this is specific for ninja, ALL pieces got Ranged Accuracy on them, this will synergize pretty nice with Daken and provide better results than Herc can give (only a few Herc pieces have default r.acc, and you won't get Racc augments since we gonna go the "Melee" style)

Not being super familiar with endgame crafting and the difficulty of getting the crafting items, are these items going to be 20mil NQ or closer to what we see with the moonbeam gear?

Depends on demand/request.
BRD set synth cost on Asura is 3-4 mils per piece in ingredients, 5-6 for body. Not sure what the cost is for the other sets but I assume something along the same line.

Prices will likely skyrocket the first weeks, then slowly stabilize.
I foresee in a couple of months price should be low for NQ and >100mils for HQ

Just my idea though, I'm not very competent with market price stuff

The demand for the items needed to craft them will drive up their market prices.

New Gear added to the spreadsheet at: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cdno5lck7k8nsud/DPS%20Calculator%20-%20Ninja.xlsx?dl=0

The cost on the new gear will be inflated pretty high. Considering you need to finish the 3rd shield to even craft them.

The irritation at having to deal with a stage 3 shield and all those crafter points alone would make me add gil to the price.

NQ Kendatsuba body is pretty nice for situations where you're capped delay, same spots you'd use a Herculean Vest over Adhemar Jacket. Extremely well augmented Herc should still be slightly better, but it's close and Kendatsuba doesn't require the randomness of chasing really good augments.

Legs aren't bad either, as an option for people without max Samnuha. Rest of the NQ set is solid gear, but seems like it won't really replace the Herculean/Adhemar stuff we've been using.

Kendatsuba set also makes for solid Blade: Hi gear with all that crit rate and decent AGI. Again, shouldn't beat well augmented Herc WSD pieces for Hi, but it's pick-up-and-go gear instead of needing to fool with augments.

The set is perhaps more interesting for SAM TA builds and MNK stuff (crit WS), but it's nice to have additional higher end NIN alternatives for people who might not have one of the other pieces.

I just finished my Joiner's Shield and yes I will be charging a premium as it took a lot of time, effort and Gil. If you want an NQ for the price of the mats you go make one its hell have fun.

I certainly don't blame you for wanting to make some profit, and I'm sure most reasonable players understand that. However, you didn't get a guarantee that spending a lot of time and money on your shield would make you rich. You invested in a status piece that may or may not end up being be hugely beneficial. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm trying to finish up an Ebisu Rod +1 in 2017 just for the shiny and certainly not for any fishing profits (hahahahaha) - so I get making the "ultimate thing" just for glory's sake.

As discussed above, if we're talking NIN, the gear simply isn't good enough to warrant anyone paying extremely inflated prices. It provides a nice sidegrade-ish choice for people who don't want to mess with augments, have the JP for Su3 gear, and want a decent (but not best of the best) alternative. That's not really the same profile as something like HQ abjurations that are BiS, which people who have everything else and a lot of gil will buy for 10s-100s of millions.

More power to you if you get people to spend exorbitant amounts. I don't really see it happening with NINs going after this NQ set though, you're gonna be constrained by demand, and (especially as more people get the crafting shields) it seems more likely to me that NQ prices will rather quickly stabilize at material cost plus a more modest profit. If you can get that, given the strength of the gear relative to other options.

Frankly, for anyone who can get Herculean gear, they'd be extremely likely to make better NIN gear by investing the same amounts in stones and praying to Oseem instead of paying a steep premium because "it was hard for me to craft this!". 30mil for NQ Kendatsuba hands that I see right now up on my server (which is what, 6x material costs)? Pfff. Herc with strong augs or NQ Adhemar are still better for NIN, so good freaking luck selling those to a NIN at that kind of markup.

they are 10m or less on my server, any of the new sets.... not really a bad price imo. And you can sell them back if you ever get a img oseem aug.

True that you can sell 'em back. And I was just giving an example of the only Ken. hands that are up on Phoenix atm, as an excessive attempt at gouging.

I get that crafters want some profit, and that's totally warranted. But the thought that just because it's hard to make will mean you can sell for a massively inflated price is probably not going to match reality.

Hell, even a 10m price on hands (which is still almost double the material costs) is sort of a bad buy for a NIN. You really can't get a Herc hands and get better augments by spending that kind of gil (or Adhemar and not even need to play the random augment game)?

IMO only the hq body and legs are really worth using depending on your build. If you're even a modestly geared ninja soloing the Jima tier ones for stones and gear is entirely achievable. I suppose the NQ body would be perfectly reasonable if getting a herc body isn't really an option for you.

Haven't run ALL the numbers yet but speaking of Neak, the HQ set in particular might be an incredibly strong option for more evasive and high Def. Mobs.

I personally see Ken winning with your well above average aug of acc/4TA on herc body (which requires a lot of stones to get). You would NEED 27 acc to tie with Ken body from and Aug and even a perfect 4 TA would still place you 1 TA under Ken body. Your also looking at ken having 22 racc more with 2 agil, add that to its +5str and 4 crit hit rate.... I doubt the 3 stp herc has is going to outdo any of that. Once you factor in defensive parts too ken is just miles ahead of herc on any level.

I think you neglect the missing Att on Kenda. Unless you r super buffed Att is a real problem for Nin. So while Herc might be slightly behind in Att caped situations I see it ahead in anything where Att is not caped.

uhhh herc has 0 attack too, just saying lol. The only way to get attack is through augs, and I doubt your getting alot from your augs while getting BOTH 30~ acc and 4 TA. I doubt your getting that, and lets be honest even if you did I doubt that 30 attack (being overly generous) wil outdo for your dps what the racc alone does for daken land rates.

It's a wishy-washy area arguing for Daken consideration when it isn't hurting for accuracy as much as we often think.

For 1 minute out of 3 with full sange merits, your racc may be better than your melee accuracy.

I would love to have the time to quantify it on a per target basis to remove the 'opinion' part of my argument. But life has other plans for now. :)

Langly, I played around with your updated spreedsheet today. Set buffs to marchx2, 1 mad, 1 minuet, sam roll, chaos, and geo torpor/frality since this would be a normal high buff scenario and put mob to 140. I am getting ochu as best offhand which surprised me as I thought taka was best offhand at very high buffs? With both Kik and Aeonic this was true, doing ten spam; kik/aeonic if you metsu is best actually. I am also getting ken body beating your perfect dexTA herc body. By quite a large margine too, about 20~ dps which is quite a large jump for a slott considering perfect herc body will never happen. Adhemar NQ-A head loses to dampening tam which surprised me, but only by 5~ dps so not a huge deal, but does widen as acc needs go up by a lot, so basically dampening is better until you get HQ. Samnuha legs are leaps and bounds over Ken+1. Kikoku gets smashed by Aeonic too......

Guess I need to start updating my lua bit lol!

I think Ochu always has been the best off hand as it provides more overall damage compared to Kanaria and Taka, especially for WSing. Was also looking at NQ Ken sets and some of the numbers are quite surprising. I did notice that sometimes I had Samnuha getting beat by NQ Ken and other times Samnuha was still dominating (I'll double check). NQ set I'm still on the fence due to it's price on my server, if it ever does drop its worth the investment.

the ken will be 3m~ each within months np. So it is VERY worth it at that price imo its 5m atm on asura avg, I have spent easily 3m of fern for herc gear multiple times over..... NQ ken def worth it for body/head and the rest conditionally are good.

I have been around for years and never heard of Ochu "always" being considered best offhand, usually it has been referred to as a sidegrade/option/competitive. I am glad to see it does so well as I like to MB too and this just lets you be more versatile anyhow.

Overall I am happy with the ken and seeing the very small dps loss in the legs/feet/hands slott too its def worth getting the set for a hybrid magic, since physical isnt to big of a worry with shadows/mig.

I want to say within the last few months I always had Ochu being the go to in spreadsheets. I, unfortunately, don't have a max ochu so that will wait.
Currently on Bismarck NQ Ken body is about 8mil with one on AH going for more than 8mil and others are around 3-7mil. So hopefully, within a few weeks it'll drop in price.

Ya whats rough with is it it take 3 lumbers (3.6m) 2 sweats (4m, would have been 3m using pre su3 prices), and a pelt (1.2m~), and about 200k in other stuff. So as a crafter your looking at about 9m to synth, and if you go pre su3 gear prices 7m. I doubt body will drop much more than to 4-5m~ and that is if you have a rich WW crafter poping them out which isnt going to be common. The rest of the set though is a lot cheaper (2m less per synth). I will probably pick it up at 6m~ as a 1-2 mil difference isnt a huge deal, and the others maybe at 4m~. I feel thats fair for the set tbh.

I have found varying situations where Ochu wins, Taka wins, Perfect (Absolutely perfect) Kanaria wins. So there's definitely a sliding scale.

I too offhand Ochu for most of my activities.

But what no one is talking about.... the kendatsuba THINK OF THE MEVA! (I use an addon that lets me "react" to things by putting meva sets on for magical/debuffs and it's so nice to resist things) This is a huge upgrade to Magic Evasion on all pieces except maybe feet?

I realize I just got excited for magic evasion gear... Beaztmaster would be proud.

WHich add-on is this? Does it auto detect like the "cure" stuff does to swap you to cure potency+? If you dont want to post much about it please PM me.

Missed Azagarth's post.
I agree with him Kendatsuba Togi is gonna win over other options for NIN. The DW on Adhemar is more often than not an issue.
Getting perf augs on Herculean is hard.
Kendatsuba is a solid option and would require quite some good aug for Herc to be better.
Kend sounds good even for WS honestly.
Sure there's a lack of Att, but at the end of the day I don't think it's gonna mean a lot.
In situations where you are completely unbuffed you're likely fighting stuff so easy it won't matter at all.
In situations where you're fighting very hard stuff, the additional acc, meva and stats are gonna make a big difference, and attack probably won't matter since it's so incredibly easy to cap attack these days anyway.

Plus Kendatsuba is particularly good for NIN compared to the other jobs on the set specifically because of the additional racc which is gonna help a lot in the Daken land rate, increasing if not damage, at least TP gain per round by a pretty considerable amount.


Me and Capuchin are the ones who performed very detailed tests on offhand many months ago. Still there if you wanna surf back the pages.
I seem to recall I tested mainly with Heishi Shorinken main, Capu did tests with Kikoku too.
Back then it was hard to find an exact hierarchy for offhands, it depended a lot on which WS you were using, which buffs etc.

Taka was especially good for Kannagi mainhand, but times have changed, monsters received multiple skill nerfs, there's new gear and new paradygms and I feel Blade: hi today is in a worse position than it was back then.

tl;dr I think those tests aren't particularly valid anymore.

Best offhand is probably perf aug Kanaria (what is perf depends on your build, setup, WS etc) but good luck with that.
Taka is very low delay, high damage, nice stats, additional racc, but AGI is sorta useless.
Perf Ochu is probably the best all-around option if you own one.
But SR can be pretty unforgiving... I've been doing SR a lot since day one, I've seen multiple "perf" copies of pretty much every single equipment in SR except Samnuha Coat, Samnuha legs and Taming Sari (seen over 14 perf Fanatic Gloves for instance!).
It's not really something you can get a degree of control on.
You could be spamming 50 times every day and still be without perf Taming Sari like me, or you could be like one of my friends who barely did SR and saw 4 copies of perf Taming Sari.
/shrug


Is the difference so high over nq Kendatsuba?
I didn't test on the spreadsheet but I wasn't imagining such a HUGE difference.
I got Perf Samnuha-1 (almost perf, but not quite), I was confident Kendatsuba NQ to beat em for TP, especially if you need Acc since Samnuha got none, aside from the DEX.

Still think NQ Kendatsuba should be the next best option after Samnuha? For situations where, for whatever reason, you don' t want DW gear in your legs slot.