The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

I wish they changed Merits into something else and made San spells available to everyone, but of course that's not going to happen.
Being able to only merit 2 of them (or spread potency around) in cat1 and cat2 is really lame =/

Well tbh there are many things that would just make too much sense to change/introduce. Lets just say "Hi!" to Jubaku: Ni here for a second.... was always wondering why SE was so inconsistend with Ninjutsu right from the start.
But I agree. A first nice thing to do would be give access to all San nukes. Problem here imho is not so much accessibility but rather the huge dmg boost by Relic Hat that only works to its fullest with 5/5 spells. Merits 1 and 2 are kind of redundant anyways, considering that both basiacally boost potency of one element.

Id welcome a Merit 2 category like:
Sange
NTE
Elemental Nin spell MAcc+ (merits 1 boost dmg and elem resist. this would be Macc and could then triggers Relic hat)
Jubaku: Ni (more merits improve potency and MAcc like Para II)
Dokuromi: Ni (more merits increase scaling with Nin skill and macc)
Aisha: Ni (More merits improve potency and macc)
Yurin: Ni (more merits improve potency and macc)

For this to make sense aisha: ichi and yurin: ichi would have to be pushed down to the anyways rediculously large spell acquisition gap between 45 and 75.

This would make for a nice consistent spell progression which would be in accordance to other stuff like Rdms debuff progression. Furthermore, it could revive Nin debuffs. A para spell with a similar strength like Para II and strong unique debuffs like Aisha and Yurin would be nice. Furthermore, Yurin would even add to SEs recent effords to push Subtle Blow II. As if there would be any real option so far to impair a monsters TP gain substantially...

That's so not happening, we all know that no major changes of that scale are gonna happen to any job in game.
And frankly NIN already performs pretty well as a DD, so I think they're just gonna leave it at that and ignore everything else.

Because if it were me even before fixing that thing about Ninjutsu, I would "fix" the NIN's duality between DD and Tank, and I would do so by tweaking how Yonin and Innin work.
Things like remove the potency down over time, make them undispellable, make them last longer but with long cooldowns, kinda like Light/Dark Arts but with a long cooldown so you can't swap back and forth every 5 seconds.

Then we would have to balance pros and cons of each stance.
Innin should do good things about damage, but make it harder/impossible to tank.
Yonin should make tanking viable, but at the expense of something else (so that people do not exploit it by making NIN a too much resilient of a DD if they do DD with Yonin up).

INNIN

YONIN
I think this, maybe in addition with some new tanking-specific items, would be enough to make NIN a perfectly viable tank for the majority of content, with different pros and different cons from RUN and PLD.



Of course this would require way too much work and would be way too hard for them to balance, but still I wish they wouldn't forget about NIN as a Tank =/

I totally agree with your points made. But actually Im quite happy about the monster design in Omen so far. I think Nin is quite a viable tank for most of the stuff in there. Time restrictions and versatility requirements favour a tank that can deal dmg/sc/mb as well. So I am happy that Nin gets a bit more attention in Omen.

I agree and they should definitely add a BOOST to it, cuz even with Innin I take hate away from a fully gear'd PLD by solo-ing skillchains ><

and Yonin makes my ACC go to hell as you said, that be nice to keep my ACC+

Positioning tho is fine as far as I am concern , normally DD stay behind mob so that works, and Tanks in front , however won't disagree be nice to Tank in front while having all the buffs from Innin (That be Sweet)

:)

I completely disagree that the AF and Ambuscade sets give any indication of SE showing any new efforts to push the job in any specific direction.

Across all jobs, the newly updated AF pieces generally just fill the same roles they did back at 109/119 reforge (and most of those are the same role as original AF). They've just been buffed so that where they had been replaced for that specific purpose, they're now back to being viable (if not ideal) options for that same purpose. I would be shocked if Relic/Empy +3 sets aren't upgraded using a similar philosophy.

NIN AF head has always been used for ninjutsu, body has always been a DW piece, hands have always had ranged/throwing (and despite the addition of Daken on the new upgrades, will still remain mostly useless). Legs (DW/Acc) and Feet (magic) are used for the same things they were at 109 reforge (and earlier, lv74 AF+1 feet had INT).

Don't read too much into the stats as an indication of play style. Easy example of the fallacy there is assuming that the DW on body/legs means that for some reason S-E thinks we actually need to focus on more DW gear (despite capping delay reduction fairly easily with reasonable buffs). Does the presence of more DW on the new +2/+3 stuff mean that S-E wants to see NINs in DD roles with no buffs? (I certainly hope not!)

As for ambuscade, the Macc is certainly very useful for ninjutsu (enfeebling or elemental), though I don't think that set is any indication of S-E pushing NIN to a certain playstyle either. The set, like most Ambuscade sets, just had a certain theme to its design. In the case of Mummu, that's acc, macc, crit rate, and meva. And NIN isn't the only one helped by Macc - COR Quick Draw and DNC Violent Flourish are other notable examples.


Regardless of improvement to gear, I still can't see NIN nuking being a significant thing on serious content. Any time magic is viable and people are giving mage buffs (which would be needed for NIN to perform its best on high level stuff), NIN is simply going to get destroyed by any decent real mage.

Ninjutsu has its uses, I'm not saying to ignore it. It's nice to slap a Futae'd MB onto the end of a SC, for instance. And obviously the enfeebles can be helpful if you don't have someone covering those. But I really, really can't see ninjutsu DD becoming part of the generally accepted meta any time in the foreseeable future.

Do we have an updated WS set for Hi, Shun, and Kamu? Or is OP pretty much on point? How does +1 for the current month of ambuscade work for Blade: Hi? Is the total 27% Crit Rate good at all to use on Blade: Hi? It also has a total of 182 AGI where herc only has a total of 138. Do the augments of herc potentially outclass +1 ambuscade?

OP sets look pretty much on point.

For Herculean gear, don't forget you can add AGI+10~15 (11+ only with Taupe or Dark Matter augments). WSD is very strong for Hi, so Herculean pieces with AGI and WSD are still ideal (AGI and crit rate are also good). FWIW, Metsu is similar thinking (DEX and WSD, but doesn't crit).

Head, hands, legs, feet = Herculean will still be better than Mummu+1 for Hi with good augs. However, Mummu+1 are all at least GOOD, and certainly respectable choices if you don't wanna go through augment hell for Hi or have additional reasons to make AGI/WSD herc pieces (say, Leaden Salute, Wildfire, Trueflight). For body, I guess I'd have to play around with some spreadsheet stuff, but just eyeballing it, Mummu+1's crit rate+8% does seem somewhat tempting and maybe a closer call, though Herc should still be better with very strong augs. Abnoba Kaftan is also still a strong option with crit rate AND crit damage +5%.

FWIW, Hachiya+3 head should be easily the best Hi option. But obviously, AF119+3 stuff is perhaps not a super realistic short term suggestion.

I was afraid of that answer. Time to go throw more stones away. Thank you very much.

I noticed there is no Enmity/Provoke set in the OP. So I tried to come up with a max enmity set, which was not very easy as I found that Nin does not have a lot of options (at least not 119 ones).
Here is what I came up with after a quick survey (Enmity +88):
ItemSet 348498

Any comments/suggestions?

Good call. I had one created back in June but never added it to the Equipment section.

Another one that I haven't added: MagicEvasion/Resist set. I'll get to that eventually...

See my set in the Utility section for my suggestion on Enmity.

Ah ok I missed the head and the belt but except for that if not the same gear at least the enmity values are the same or in the case of legs Zoar even has one Enmity more.

Thx for adding ~ Shows some options as well

Zoar +1 it is!

Edit: And I so wanted to avoid the true subligar model... I love how our highest enmity set would look f'in ridiculous.

Haha True enough ^^ But lock style fixes everything :p

hey fellow nin's. if you were choosing between 15 skill and 36 macc, which would you take for a debuff situation?

MAcc
Skill : MAcc ration is assumed to be 1:1 so go for MAcc

alright thanks, i was wondering the estimated rate to so big help!

Yeah, fixes it by constantly wearing that glorious fashion monstrosity!

Seriously though, I suppose enmity is a little more relevant now, given that NIN seems pretty useful in Omen tanking certain mobs. Good call to revisit this set, and thanks for taking a look.

I was fooling around with a heavy DT- and net enmity+ set and came up with this fairly practical one with DT-42% (PDT- over 50%), which also allows for Shadow Ring, some MEva/MDT in ear slots, and the additional ninjutsu recast reduction from Shigi for stuff like going San->San or if shadows are wiped by AoE, Migawari recast, etc.
ItemSet 348551
*Herc Helm has DT-4%
*Amm Greaves are capped (total DT-5%)

Shigi's enmity-10 is sort of a downer, but the DT-5% and ninjutsu recast reduction are worthwhile to me, and at least the enmity is cancelled out with Emet+1. (and of course, can Provoke and stuff in a full enm+ set as needed)

Obviously some flexibility if you prefer stuff like Eihwaz Ring, Cryptic Earring, a Dark Ring or Vocane Ring if you have that (and not need Shigi), etc. But may be a helpful starting point that could be useful for stuff like Omen.

Sorry Cap but why not a Shuhansadamune offhand?
It's clearly not a weapon meant for OH if you look at damage/delay, but in a hybrid set like this I think it's quite an acceptable option.
Furthermore, Ahosi leggings?
Could be better than Amm and potentially easier to get as you don't have to rely on the random augment aspect.

Wish we had a tanking shuriken though, because giving up Daken makes me really sour.

None of my set was really a claim of "this is an ideal build for any tanking situation", but something I put together and use that might be a good starting point for others to modify as they see fit. I like your suggestions though!


Certainly a viable choice, good suggestion. I do still prefer the Shigi myself since (1) ninjutsu recast reduction for Migawari (bigger deal) and Utsu San to San (also nice) and (2) it's DT-5% versus Shu's PDT-3% (which is a lot easier to cap in numerous ways), and one of my priorities was a large amount of pure DT- to help against all damage types. However, if you care more about higher enmity or you're fighting something where you can really blink away the majority of damage and hate is a bigger deal, Shu is a nice option.

If you're trying to add some reasonable DD as well (TP at a reasonable rate and add WS damage), you may be be more acc deficient too in this sort of set, so Shigi helps on that.


Well, I have perfect Amm and I don't have Ahosi is my main reason! But again, Amm DT-5% versus Ahosi PDT-4% is a consideration. Nice Eva/Meva/Enm+ on Ahosi too, certainly a good choice.

So, I'm stuck somewhere between building a nagi, and building a Terpsichore. I love both jobs about the same, and I'm wanting to build a melee since I already have death penalty conpleted. My question is, is it just going to be a waste of time to build a nagi and use the aftermath with Kamu and then spam another weaponskill? I know the augments mijin isn't useful, but I like the weapon itsrlf and I wouldn't think twice to thrice, even though single hand, would make the weapon obsolete. I just don't want to suffer from buyers remorse, so in your opinion is nagi a viable option, or should I just make terpsichore?

Nagi is probably NIN's overall weakest RMEA weapon right now. You could argue that it has niche applications in DD-tank settings, but if you'd only do one katana then it may not be the best choice.

So twice to thrice won't keep up with say a kannagi or kikoku?

If you can get a Heishi (even if this equates to buying one), I'd say go that route. All of the NIN RMEA kinda take a side seat to it. In spammy max buff zerg situations, the 500 TP Bonus adds a huge amount to Blade: Ten damage. In low man tanking situations (when I actually use Ninja), Blade: Shun self light is very good and the 500 TP bonus also adds a lot to Shun itself. According to JP wiki, Shun is 0%/100%/200% attack bonus at 1000/2000/3000 TP. So you're essentially adding +50% attack to Blade: Shun with Heishi. You also have the option of 4 stepping. It's the best damage but it requires that you're solo with good buffs and DD/tanking often makes it unreliable.

I would rate Kikoku as second best. Blade: Metsu is decent damage and self darkness (without Hi, Blade: Hi kinda sucks) is also very useful.

Are you implying Kannagi sucks? :(
I don't own one and I would never build one but I was under the impression it can be a nice weapon? Of course you have to rely on Hi and Hi isn't exactely the most reliable of WSs around... but at the same time it doesn't seem to me it's teh ***either?

having both Heishi and Kikoku I can say both will make you very happy as a nin.

If you have access to free aeonic clears Id say go for the Heishi as the dps between the 2 is so close in most situation, but more niche stuff favors aeonic (sc, pure ten spam). If you do not see yourself doing aeonic then Kikoku is a very cheap and wise choice comparatively.

I hate not having metsu though with aeonic, I really love that ws for its consistency and the 1500 dmg melee hits are fun and frequent.

And since the original question was about choosing Nagi or Terpsichore... Terps is MUCH better for DNC than Nagi is for NIN. So if you like the jobs equally, realize you're getting more bang for your buck making DNC mythic than NIN.


I agree with this.

From a NIN RMEA only perspective, if you're not building an Aeonic it's also worth noting the significant cost difference between relic/empy/mythic (i.e. relic is a lot cheaper). Obviously prices will vary a bit depending on server and timing, but I'd imagine the comparison is generally the same story across servers. On my server, we're talking almost half the price for a relic (which for NIN is usually the better weapon anyway) as compared to a mythic.

Relic:
Relic Currency (average 3.5k/ea * 17,500) = 61.25 mil
Plutons (~9k * 10,300) = 92.7 mil
Marrow (~1.1m * 5) = 5.5 mil
TOTAL: 159,450,000 gil

Empy
HMP (~110k * 1500) = 165 mil
Riftdross (~800k * 60) = 48 mil
Boulders (~7k * 10,300) = 72.1 mil
TOTAL: 285,100,000

Mythic:
Alex (~7k * 30,000) = 210 mil
Scoria (4mil * 3) = 12 mil
Beits (~8k * 10,300) = 82.4 mil
TOTAL: 304,400,000 gil

That's not even considering the additional hassle of Mythic with Ichor, Tokens, Assaults.


I don't think Kannagi sucks, but if you're doing a non-Aeonic, Kikoku costs a ton less and comes out on top most of the time. Makes it sort of a no-brainer to me.

Mythic and Empyrean also require a huge time investment for all of the trials/questing. That stuff took me longer to do than the currency.

Also I don't think Kannagi sucks, but I wouldn't say that it's worth making unless you're just making it for fun.