The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

To add to what I posted, minor change, but the sheet uses 99% acc for both main and offhand, when offhand acc caps at 95%, something to look into if you have the time.

450 dps drop with that fix is crazy. Like kannagi can be last, but holy ***by 1000 dps?

(*)That fix lowered all 3 by a bit.

Data!171 It's capped at 95 for offhand. Are you referring to somewhere else?


Now, now, don't go preaching from the spreadsheet as though it's gospel. We just had a chat here about how it can't be trusted. It's not a perfect model by any means. ;)

Using the fresh changes I'm only seeing differences like this with fully Aug'd weapons. Capped pDIF/Acc ofc. .5 OverTP Rounds, I think around 1.4 OverTP Rounds, it breaks and Kannagi takes the lead.

This was the closest I could get them

Edit: fun note, it only takes Crit DMG10% as an added custom value for Kannagi to win. BRB injecting the packets for Razed Ruin Atma everywhere. (/s)

If you swap out a chaos roll for a rogue's roll when attack capped, kikoku and kannagi are doing almost identical dps on the sheet. lol This is a riot.

Referring more to the Melee page, you would normally have lower average hits per round with an offhand due to 95% acc. I just noticed that when referencing this spreadsheet to the BLU one that the 95% offhand acc was taken care of on that page. If it's simply handled on the data page instead that makes sense but it's just something that sparked my curiosity.

Understood where you're coming from. I always preferred to keep the accuracy check out of the melee probabilities sheet. When Daken came around, I needed it to keep my sanity with this patchwork.

Yeah looking at it B261 on Data calculates off of B253, which is based on the average swings per round found on the Melee sheet, rounded to the thousandths place. Since it's so close to mainhand I assume 95% hitrate is not applied to this number, which would cause a very small change in the average melee damage per round.

Offhanding taka makes that big of a difference for kannagi/hi

200 dps loss from taka offhand to ochu offhand, for real?

So Kannagi is losing to Kikoku even when Pdif capped(as I stated earlire)? Man, that's a shame.

Taka is a really good offhand and it's lower delay is good for damage, as well as crit and 20 agi which is very good for blade hi and emp AM3. Note that it only has 228 skill, though.

You make a good point, the offhand hits are using 99% rate for determination. Will be adjusted in about 10 minutes. I don't expect it's going to impact the numbers much at all.

i am HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
i guess shun metsu shun would be it?

edit: im HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE more
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unrelated note:
almost every single 228 weapon in the game has more acc+ on the weapon than the loss of acc from the skill (-12.6). In effect all 228 ever really means is -14attack on offhand white dmg swings.

side note: for Hi kannagi builds ternion +1 should probably be mentioned.

Oh god that's hilarious. I switched the Taka to Ternion +1. And heartily lol'd.

Only if you have another NIN to use Shun with Heishi Aftermath already active.

Is it that bad? I figured it'd be good attack capped. I guess Taka has pretty high base dmg for an offhand


@Bahamut.Alexcennah : im an idiot ignore my metsu talk, I hear luna say metsu is the bestsu in /L so much it's made me delusional

No, no. It in fact overperformed Taka when getting that aforementioned Rogue's Roll. (This is without taking any consideration to the piercing bonus.)

It was just a very abrupt surprise. (Which I'm attributing to the incredibly low delay.)


Edit: Oh god, it's even more hilarious if you don't even use an offhand. Your DPS skyrockets. I gotta see if there's something that needs fixing... no way should this be the case.. lol

Kannagi no offhand no shurikens AM3 confirmed best girl?

Wouldn't surprise me. lol.

Shurikens still raise dps if equipped and lower if removed.

I had a serious laughing fit. Until I started changing the delay etc for having no offhand. Now it's subsequently very very low.

(Not an addition I think should have even had to have been made, but I'd rather it show real-ish results even if you opted to not use an offhand.)

probably sees zero and does main hand delay only before DW. so like (227 + 0) * (1-dw)

Yeah, it was. Then I went and fixed that as well as all the offhand contributions to WSDMG etc. Still found a way to end up like this (With DNC JA haste)


Left side, Kikoku + Metsu, Kannagi + Hi on right.

Gonna have to show the tp sets with numbers like that

The kikoku set is exactly the same but kannagi set is 800 higher

Even if something is broken. I'm having a great time imagining a Katana + Shield is optimal for Kannagi.

I actually have used Ternion +1 a decent amount as a Kannagi offhand (without a Taka) and it’s not a bad alternative if you don’t have Taka. Lately, I find myself more often in situations where Fudo Masamune is BiS though.

Kannagi also tends to better take advantage of high acc sets using Kenda+1 legs/feet over Samnuha/Herc, since Empy AM plays so nicely with crits.

IIRC, some other DW jobs also played with the idea of foregoing an offhand altogether and using a crit/multiattack focused Fencer build. DNC with an Airy Buckler offhand I think. Lower delay for the single weapon, and all swings having a possibility of AM proc is a way to really bump up white damage. If memory serves, it Did pretty well at one point in time. And obviously, something like WAR or BST with 1h Axe Or Sword and shield Fencer builds are a somewhat reasonable idea (at least in theory, though in practice the superior 2h WAR weapons win out)

I still think Empy are underrated in practice because we aren’t robots who always TP at optimal time. A job like NIN that also crits a lot takes advantage pretty well and has a much higher proportion of white damage than most jobs/weapons (I’ve experienced similar with Armageddon on RNG). If you can truly WS instantly at 1000tp, or if you get a LOT out of TP overflow (Heishi/Ten hell yes, Kikoku/Metsu hell no), you might not see that benefit. But if you’re waiting for others to WS a lot to avoid breaking SCs, it if you just aren’t quick on the WS trigger for whatever other reason... you might be surprised with the actual results.

Nice to see that perhaps my Kikoku will get some more use after R15ing it, but until then (or situationally even after augments in REAL game scenarios), I still expect I’m going to do better with Kannagi.

Ya don't say, seems like that obvious statement gets lost on some people.
The more main hand swings you get the more damage you do, madness, absolute madness.

Equipping a Kikoku does not lock you out of pressing Blade: Ten at TP overflow, it's still good for Kikoku.

single wield would be an average of 100% increase in auto attack damage. and no, daken doesn't change that fact. you're wrong, you always are, just quit trying.

... Legion Scutum? XD

It's not an accurate representation, don't get too excited. It was just really funny.

There's still math within the Weaponskill page in determining cycles and overtp values that I'm not going to go through and mess with. There's just too many fields.

I do believe you can be sure that the real value would be lower than what's shown, ... by how much, I cant say.

Still, that was hilarious. My wife was worried I was going to hurt myself laughing so hard in the computer room.

The thing is, for real good damage situations you are often going want to have a party SC set up. Just the practical reality that will frequently be better than the DDs spamming damage WS. That means you’re often sitting on some TP. When you’re swinging away waiting to SC, Empy AM is fantastic.

Holding TP cartiably doesn’t help Metsu. Any weapon can use Ten, true (and obviously Heishi does that to best effect), though it’s harder to fit into SCs (though Heishi also is best Shun weapon when that works in SC, and that gets something out of TP overflow so there’s that). Yeah, Kikoku or Kannagi can also use Ten if you have to, with augmented Kannagi doing better cause DEX+20, but you don’t really ever want to go out of your way to hold TP. When you have to it’s better to be getting far better white damage (Empy).

Again comes somewhat down to real world situations. If you can spam Ten at will with good buffs, Hesihi is the pretty obvious winner. I really don’t think that’s so prevalent in actual serious stuff though (VD Ambu, wave 3 Divergence, etc.)

For shits and giggles, how does the tpbonus Hitaki do?

Edit: as an offhand weapon.

Which one you do is going to depend on the content. Sometimes you don't want to SC (Gin, t4 Sandworm) or TP spam is ideal (Dynamis-D in full alliance setup) and sometimes you do SC. Which you do is going to have a major impact on which weapon is truly best at the time. But what that SC is may also change the weapon, as if you're going to be swinging with a Resolution or Savage Blade, you may be stuck using Shun.