The Sealed Dagger: A Ninja Guide

Chirich +1 should be better than any other ring option if benefiting from the accuracy, or as Lunatone said, cacoethic ring +1.

Regal ring + Hachiya Tekko +3 is an option as well but you give up 12-13 store TP for that, more of a "I can't hit anything to save my life" kind of thing.

Is it not worth offhanding divergance +1/+2 katana if accuracy is a concern? You give up some str/dex and potentially TA(Kanaria, ochu) as well as store TP but if accuracy is a concern, you're probably going to benefit from the nice extra attack(up to 105!!) on the divergance katana, right?

Dynamis katana would be best yes.

Ilabrat

just trying to get my nin decent

Kikoku + ochu a fine combo ?

currently my ochy is fmg+5 and str+8 ( might try for a better one)
and i use skrimish katana offhand

Izuna has very high delay, so it isn't good for offhand. Ochu is pretty good but it would be better with a high DEX augment because Metsu.

Fudo is a good off hand but at the current price, I cannot justify buying that simply for accuracy. Eventually I'll get it, but since the only useful augment path is the tanking one, and tanking on ninja is such a rare feat, it's just easier to make smaller adjustments in gear. I wonder when the price of those will drop... Some are well worth the price, fudo at this stage is not imo

So kikoku for main hand is decent for nin ?

Its the best for nin don't let the non-believers tell you otherwise

ItemSet 363232 This puts me at 1358 melee 1150 ranged before buffs and food, Just too poor for ken +1 and its too squishy on higher stuff not much meva

dw14

we need to get you a telos.

get ilabrat in there.

You can always use Mummu+2 legs and Mummu ring as a decent option

Yeah I just said forget it w/ the extra DW, thats supposed to be maxhaste.acc too lol.

Though I doubt the regal set bonus is really worth it with just 1 piece in there, if I throw body thats just too much DW

Kikoku is very good. I ended up making Heishi because it was an easy weekend run at the moment, but it's always looked like a nice weapon. Plus it's purple

Yes, it opens up fantastic SC options for ninja, especially solo. You no longer have to rely on kamu for frag - metsu does that! You no longer have to rely on hi for double darkness - metsu does that!

Metsu is MUCH stronger than Hi and Kamu, by a lot, so skillchaining with this is a lot more effective.

Ku - > Retsu - > shun - > Metsu (Light) is a fun skillchain you can do.
Alternatively. Ku - > Retsu - > Ten/Ku - > Metsu (Darkness)

Ninja is very starved on attack power so the nearly 200 attack you get from Kikoku is very, very helpful for ninja.

Kikoku has a lot of good strengths that help Ninjas weaknesses a lot.

Kamu not for you,
Hi ask why,
Shun is fun, but
metsu is bestu.

SE literally spells out BiS for NIN.

Kikoku is decent for mainhand, but never best. It's absolutely a solid weapon, but if you're able to get Kannagi or Heishi, either those will serve you better overall. Kikoku is cheaper than Kannagi and easier to obtain for most than Heishi though, and it's a legit weapon for the fairly serious Ninja.

* With lower buffs, Kannagi (mostly using Hi) > all.
* With very strong buffs, Heishi (mostly using Ten) > all.
* In beteween, it's obviously closer.
* Kikoku/Metsu is generally 3rd place, and occasionally sneaking into 2nd place (besting Heishi) with VERY low buffs.

Metsu IS best WS for Kikoku, and beats Hi for Kikoku. But that's not really what Hi is for, Hi is for Kannagi. And Kannagi/Hi is going to be better than Kikoku/Metsu in almost any situation. I have both, and I really only use Kikoku if Metsu happens to be more useful for a SC with other players, or if I can't maintain Empy AM3 (pretty rare, but we're talking maybe stuff that frequently wipes TP or unequips weapon).

If anyone reading this doesn't realize that the constant "Metsu = Bestu" chatter from the colorful characters of this forum is in large part a goofy joke (and a bit of aspirational thinking), that's what it is. Still a pretty solid WS though. And if you ARE using Kikoku, yeah, Metsu it up with your WSD>DEX>multiattack gear.

I've never been able to get decent numbers with blade: hi. Does the 50 agi increase it's damage by that substantial of an amount?
<ammo>Yetshila</ammo>
<head>Hachiya Hatsu. +3</head>
<body augment="S45384928895001">Herculean Vest</body>
<hands augment="D15444865976767">Ryuo Tekko</hands>
<legs>Mummu Kecks +2</legs>
<feet>Mummu Gamash. +2</feet>
<neck>Fotia Gorget</neck>
<waist>Fotia Belt</waist>
<ear1 augment="S560011289">Moonshade Earring</ear1>
<ear2>Ishvara Earring</ear2>
<ring1>Mummu Ring</ring1>
<ring2>Begrudging Ring</ring2>
<back augment="S8137071005542518759">Andartia's Mantle</back>

This is what I use for hi, 6% WSD on herc body and 10% WSD on cape.

Are you talking SEVERELY underbuffed to the point where you have zero attack power buffs besides berserk, can't use attack food, can't land agheha, zero defensive down debuffs on the enemy and are fighting a high tier 135+ NM/omen cat/divergance enemies? I can see blade: Hi pulling ahead there, but only because your attack power is so low.

I throw out around 16k average metsu while my blade HI's never average anywhere near that number. Usually the ~180 attack power from Kikoku is enough to get me decent pdif on the enemies I am fighting on Ninja as I always have a 4 song honor march bard with me and Dia3 on the enemy, as well as Agheha(if it lands).

Blade: Hi is 5.0 ftp 1 hit 80% AGI crit based WS.
Metsu is 7.0 ftp 1 hit 80% dex non-crit WS.
Shun is 1.0 ftp 5 hit ftp transfer 80% dex non-crit WS.
Blade: Ten is 4.5-15.5 1 hit 30% str 30% dex non-crit WS.

With this knowledge, blade: hi should be substantially weaker than the other 3 good katana weapon skills. AM3 is equal to +~45% autoattack damage, which wouldn't be enough to make up for using an inferior weapon(-180 attack or -10 store TP and -500 TP Bonus).

So I'm curious, how are you getting decent blade: hi's? Or finding that Kannagi is performing anywhere near Kikoku or Heishi outside of niche situations(Heavily underbuffed, qutrub ambu, lots of amnesia aura, etc).

I love emps, and AM3 is really fun to see rolling above enemies heads. I have an 85 kannagi with 75 apa horns, but from anything I've looked at I've only been disappointed with Kannagi's stats, and blade: hi as a WS. I would love to take my Kannagi to AG(and even augment it!), so I an honestly curious about it's performance.

I have not seen anything impressive about Kannagi at all, and I'd be surprised if it outperforms Kikoku when considering the augment and stats. Blade: Hi has always been awful for me. Also, I don't think Moonshade is a good piece for Blade: Hi.

Why ignore pDIF? It may help you better compare these WS~

For Shun and Hi you're forgetting about the 10% WSD on the respective weapons, and 30% for Metsu (which is Betsu!)


It's technically +70 AGI (and +20 DEX, which helps with ddex's crit rate, plus 10% WSD).
Blade: Hi was never a stellar WS except during the Abyssea Era, where it was good but still inferior compared to Vsmite and Ukko's Fury.
It does better with low buffs (bigger difference between crits and non crits) and the Aftermath does more than you'd think for the overall damage, despite White Damage overall being such a small part of the total damage in nowadays' game meta.

A lot of gear we received recently helped reducing the gap between Hi and other options, but Hi remains mostly a SC option (one that's honestly not too bad, especially given how while Ninja does have some decent WS, none of them is stellar) for non Kannagi users.

They're rolling that bonus into the FTP (as stated they have it at 7.0).

Just an odd, maybe biased?, way of looking at the four weaponskills.

I didn't add augments for any weapons, simply the AG version.

I've just never looked into comparing the 3 weapons with augments, and not many people have fully augmented weapons yet to do actual testing with.

I'm just curious how to make blade: hi do well. I wanted to see someone with Kannagi and blade hi who has used it to show some tests of the weapon in action.

I won't use it unless I'm in a situation where it's favored (as you've pointed out).

In today's events, like Dynamis D, I opt for Heishi. Kannagi's a weapon whose theoretical output is quite high. But it suffers from the problem of 'what do I do with all this TP overflow.' The answer is nothing, the crit rate bonus from TP overflow is minimal in the grand scheme of things. And so often you will find yourself with a massive amount of TP overflow. Heishi and Blade: Ten thrive.

My Kannagi and Heishi are both ~Rank 10. (I think one of them might be rank 9, I don't know, I've been playing with Rostams lately) The Kannagi will leave me around third in the parse. Whereas Heishi leaves me near the top.

I dunno about that.
While I don't have a fully augmented one myself, I see a lot of people around with fully augmented weapons.
Maybe it's different on your server, I dunno :x

I agree but at the same time I don't see your experience conflicting with what Capuchin reported.

Kannagi is a good weapon to use with low buffs. In an alliance setup doing Dynamis D you tpically will always have at least 4 songs and Frailty going around, to say the least.
So clearly it's not the ideal scenario where Kannagi can shine.


Now someone might come and wonder: Why the *** should I spend a gazilion of gil in a weapon that I'm gonna be using practically only when solo? and that's a question without an easy answer.
Everybody is more than entitled to spend their money however the *** they want, I guess.

Quick math looks like r15 Metsu at 1000tp is our best WS. Better mods than Ten, att bonus and SC properties.

5.0*1.4*1.2 = 8.4 ftp

Edit: Guide is up to date, fixed the math above.

I'll consider making a Kikoku well before I purchase Fudo Masamune. Might do that next after Vere, actually.

The Point of Fudo Masamune is more as a high acc offhand option though. Can't say the same for Kikoku.

This is pretty much right. To add to that, it's important to distinguish that I never said non-Kannagi mainhands would typically want to use Hi for anything other than SC purposes. Hi isn't going to be your bread and butter for anything but a Kannagi mainhand.

For other mainhands from a WS damage perspective, you're better off with:

Kikoku: Metsu

Heishi: Ten (or hybrid) with sufficient buffs, Shun with low buffs or for SCs (i.e., Radiance)

Non-RMEA: Shun as your default damage WS, though Hi is a pretty helpful Darkness SC option to gear for (often better than Ten for a non-Aeonic, since you lack the very helpful Aeonic TP Bonus)

Kannagi: uses Hi just by process of elimination.

- Metsu? Can't use it.

- Ten (or hybrids)? Kinda mediocre for spamming WS, with no TP Bonus and minimal useful stats/attributes. For Kannagi, Ten is more of a niche WS to be used if you have to hold TP (at which point you can better take advantage of Ten's TP scaling).

- Shun? Maybe. It's one of your two primary options for Kannagi, and it is good for light-based SCs. But Shun tends to be perform better with other weapons that have actual stats that help Shun: Aeonic for ultimate SC plus some TP Bonus, Kikoku (or Fudo Masamune) for a lot of attack, non-RMEA like Kanaria or Ochu for some good stats (DEX, multiattack). Strictly for Kannagi mainhand, I usually see higher average WS damage with Hi than Shun, with very strong WS sets for both.

- Hi? Yep. The extra AGI/DEX are VERY nice for it, making Hi far better on Kannagi than on any other weapon. Not to mention it's a requirement to maintain Empy AM, so you're going to have to use it regularly enough that you will want to properly gear for it. Also outdamages Shun for me in the vast majority of situations, so unless I care about Shun for SC purposes I default to Hi with Kannagi.


Situational. Also can't forget that Kannagi is by far the best white damage weapon for NIN. As you mentioned in a previous post, focusing on white damage isn't usually the key to maximizing DPS in today's FFXI... but it comes into play sometimes. In Dyna, I will often hold TP a LOT of the time to avoid killing the much more powerful SCs from other party members (say, DRK+COR decimating stuff with huge Leaden closing Darkness SCs). In that situation where I'm not spamming WS ASAP, Kannagi is a pretty effective choice mainly due to the very frequent triple damage crits from TP phase (assuming you're keeping Empy AM3 up, which is not a big issue in Dyna).

I end up bringing NIN to Divergence to add some damage, but more importantly to serve some additional use by tanking (Halphas, off-tank on pulls of normal mobs that need to be cleared or on the occasional wave 3 fomor who sneaks away from PLD main tanks/sacs, wave 3 circles, etc.). Therefore, I'm not necessarily my party's focus for DD buffs and I'm not necessarily spamming WS at will. If we just cared about damage, we'd probably just bring more CORs or DRKs or something instead of using NIN as a primary DD.

Happens more often for me on NIN in Divergence that I'm in the 2nd DD-ish party, and I have Haste 1 and 3 songs from a non-Honor March BRD (2 of those are Marches, plus BRD switches to Carols for the Wave 3 fetters at the expense of offensive buffs). Then I have whatever non-party GEO bubble is on the mob (reduced effectiveness in Dyna anyway). At that point, buffs are low enough that Kannagi beats Heishi for my situation. If I'm LUCKY, I also get a COR or in party GEO, then we're talking buffs that approach the point where the weapons become even.


Like... why? You have a Heishi, it's a waste of money for someone in your situation. You would almost never find a reason to swap it out for Kikoku. Even in the exceedingly rare unbuffed situations where it becomes closest between the two, Kikoku barely outperforms Heishi - to the point where they're practically sidegrades. In all other situations, Heishi is easily the better option. Kikoku is also kind of a waste for those who already have a Kannagi, which beats Kikoku in pretty much any situation unless for some reason you can't maintain Empy aftermath (both do well in lower buff situations, but Empy AM3 triple damage procs outweigh Kikoku atk+).

On the other hand, Fudo Masamune will very often be your best offhand choice for any RMEA mainhand on serious content. Tons of atk, acc, racc for Daken (which becomes even BETTER when you add JSE neck), strong base dmg for offhand hits - it's a great offhand weapon. I also went with the approach of path C augments, which make Fudo probably the best tanking mainhand to fill another niche (augments do nothing from offhand, so just swap it to mainhand if you need to tank something).

Kikoku does have a place: it's the cheapest RMEA and a legitimate endgame option for those who can't get their hands on Aeonic and don't want to deal with Kannagi's higher price tag (and more annoying Empy trial hoops to jump through). If you already have either of Kannagi or Heishi, I don't see the point in making it. Personally, I only have a Kikoku because it was my first NIN RMEA.

If you want to just collect em all, cool. Otherwise, Heishi/Kannagi owners could probably prioritize other more meaningful improvements for their NIN gear: Ninja Nodowa +2, Fudo Masamune, Kendatsuba+1 gear (5/5 pieces have some use, with hands being the lowest priority cuz Adhemar+1), etc.

I'll wait to see if Ajja Katana +2 comes out with ACC+70 RACC+70 first before deciding on a 150M offhand accuracy piece. Would be classic SE to undercut an ultimate weapon's value by trying to bridge that "gap".

Fair enough. I don't really expect to see Ambuscade weapons beating the supposed "5th category" of ultimate weapons, but knowing SE your concerns aren't totally unjustified.

Fudo is a stellar offhand weapon though, don't sell it short by viewing it as just an "offhand accuracy piece" like it's a barely improved Shigi or something. It's THE offhand accuracy (and ranged accuracy for that sweet sweet Daken, and magic accuracy, and tons of atk) piece... without having to use a low DMG/skill option, and with the ability to augment for additional niche uses like tanking (path C) or low TP feed (path B).

Lol you don't need to sell me on the weapon I know it's good. I took a risk on one item before I knew it would truly be good, but this one I'm gonna hold off on until either the price drops or I see what's up with these ambuscade weapons. 150m isn't reasonable for me, but even if I did get it, I would probably be pissee af if ajja weapons head something crazy on it. Unlikely, but I don't have many accuracy issues on ninja and as you stated nodowa +2 is a more meaningful purchase for Ninja

The sensible solution for any ninja wanting a quick accuracy solution (for dynamis specifically) is to just get the hq1 version while saving up for the su5 variant. Then sell it back. The extra niche options on fudo is cool and the attack is awesome, but I don't think a good bit of people will buy it for the augment path use. The discussion started because of accuracy, and that's the quickest and easiest solution to that problem. The added tanking ability is just something that can be done with it.

So if money is an issue or a concerns over whether it's "worth it" , for accuracy, you can get by with the downgraded version with close attack and accuracy.