Knights Of Round, RDM, TP/WS Builds.

What would be wrong with meleeing with Almace in VW? I dont see perma AM3 being any less potent than anything Excal brings to the table in VW.

Nothing is really ~wrong~ with Almace, but between RDM having somewhat bad gear options for it compared to KoR and Req really hurts on WSing, ODD helps damage but between Additional Effect procs and the Attack on Excalibur with the Occasional 2.5x damage, it all adds up and puts it ahead by my experience. I admit I haven't mathed any of this but I parsed my RDM alot in VW with both and Excalibur has almost always came out on top by a nice margin.

Excalibur is not beating Almace in Voidwatch unless you're fighting something with a heavy crit resistance.

As I said, I didn't math it out or anything, its simply what I have seen in VW from using them both. RDM really doesn't have the gear to use CDC, losing the Attack thats on Excalibur for Req hurts that WS quite a bit too, so either way you go with Almace your hurting your damage by compare. KoR and Req have great gear on RDM which is what helps it come out on top while the natural ODD and HP procs cover for the higher ODD rate Almace has. Just how I see it in my head at least.

I never said anything about CDC spamming. I said perma AM3 which is 1 CDC every 1min 30 secs. In between that time, spamming Req would be better on a job like rdm. That being said, CDC is def not as weak as you make it sound. Rdm's gear choices for it are limited, but nothing that temp items/atmacites cant make up for on most of the lower tiers. You lose a chunk of attack but gain a way higher rate of ODD for TPing makes up for it. Im not saying excal is a slouch, but saying you should have Excal to DD in low tier vw's isnt true at all. I highly doubt Excal will come ahead talking about non prov/toau/cop vwnm's.

Umm no it wouldn't. Req's -20% @100 attack penalty cause's it's damage to go to sh!t on anything with a few levels of LCF. Conversely the crits on CDC are worth the most vs targets with LCF. This puts those two WS's in different categories, Req is for low level monsters and anything with PDT, CDC is for anything your level or higher.

Remember RDM does not have any native attack bonus traits / abilities nor do they have native DW. This means you'll be /NIN for damage and none of the juiciness of Bergressor from /WAR/

Can anyone help me out with the RDM Spreadsheet? I was able to use it yesterday, but for some reason today it wont let me edit it. I need to add certain pieces of gear like Ghadhab Nails and Mars's Ring because they are not already in there, but for some reason today it wont let me edit it. Sorry if this is a stupid question, not exactly used to the Spreadsheets, only downloaded them a few days ago. :x

Download it to your local PC then you can edit and do whatever you want with it.

Its on my PC though, yesterday I could edit it, thats what confuses me, now it says

"The Cell or chart that you are trying to change is protected and therefore read-only.

To modify a protected cell or chart, first remove protection using the Unprotect Sheet command (Review tab, Changes group). You may be prompted for a password."

However everything is blacked out, and I cant edit any of the parts to add gear still.

@Demonjustin:

why does your WS for KoR have Prosilio belt and brutal earring? the -5% from prosilio cancels the brutal.

I'm too lazy to do the maths, but something about RDM's naturally low modifiers, Temper activating on WSes, and diminishing returns on DA makes me figure that the gear selection might balance out.

If I ever get an excal, I'll math it out.

Not really. The whole "brutal and Prosilio cancel" is just BS. It only applies to jobs with no native DA, like DRK/SAM or DRG/SAM. To WAR, MNK/WAR, anyone /WAR or RDM there will always be a positive value for DA and thus you never hit negative DA. Specifically RDM has a natural 20% DA from 500 Enhancing Temper, you'll always get the full +5% DA from Brutal and thus it's pretty much always the best in-slow for TP and WS.

That's what I meant.

Figured out my problem with spreadsheets too, it seems my Office expired...

By the way according to the spreadsheet for RDM, KoR>Req on Qilin, and Req>CDC when using Excalibur. So as long as its correct basically anything you are fighting with RDM should have Excalibur>Almace in the end. KoR being better on higher level mobs and Req being better on lower level/lower defense mobs. Almace and CDC are by no means bad for RDM, but when looking at RDM gear options and the ability to use Excalibur, it seems Excalibur is the better option in basically all cases.

The only exception I can think of is when you need Accuracy badly enough to consider a DEX sword in your offhand. Thanks to CDC's DEX mod you can still get some damage out of that, and Almace's native DEX, which would make it a more viable option, however not often will you come across something with high enough EVA to warrant that without your attack being much to low for it to be worth fighting anyways.

I do like how some people talk down on empy ws's but they dont even mention the completely relevent AM that a majority of relics lack. I wont go into the ws argument as the points have already been discussed. Almace VW/Abyss, Excal elsewhere

O.o?

On anything higher level then you CDC > all due to the way LCF works. Req's -20% attack pretty much guarantee's your attack will be in the toilet. KoTR is actually half decent due to it's 40% damage buff and it's WSC being STR and MND vs pure DEX.

Anyhow I've worked over those sheets and the only time 99 Almace loses is when your fighting weak stuff, or you input the ODD value wrong. KoTR / Req might do higher average WS damage but the Almace will do better DoT.

-=Edit=-

Ok rechecked with newer morrigans +1 stuff and Excal + KoTR / Req ends up much closer then it was previously. Functionally you'll get the same damage output from both setups. It's very important to note the ODD rate of Emps. 100% is 30s of 30% ODD, 100% is 60s of 40% ODD, 300% is 90s of 50% ODD. You can maintain a 30% ODD pretty easily. Assuming Excal's x2.5 is the same as Rag (16%) then you can use 20% for it's value to simulate it (20% ODD and 16% 2.5 average the same).

The newer gear is much more friendly towards STR and MND based WS, though CDC's crits still tend to edge the others out. This is due to RDM's absolute sh!t selection of WS gear for CDC.

99 Excal should be 13% OD2.5 ( ~ 16.25% ODD)

Do you have any information about the proc rate being only 13% @99. I say this because the other 2.5x weapons have a very known proc rate of 16%. The 2.0x relics have a proc rate of 20% @99. So unless you can provide testing showing 99 Excal at only 13% then I must insist on using the currently accepted 16% for 2.5x weapons.

75 Ragnarok
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Ragnarok_%28Level_75%29

2.5x proc rate ~6%

99 Ragnarok
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Ragnarok_%28Level_99%29

2.5x rate now 16%

75 Bravura
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Bravura_%28Level_75%29

2.0x at 8% proc rate

99 Bravura

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Bravura_%28Level_99%29

2.0x at 20% proc rate

75 Mandau

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Mandau_%28Level_75%29

3.0x proc rate at 5%

99 Mandau

http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Mandau_%28Level_99%29

3.0x proc rate at 13%

Now did you really confuse Excal's 2.5x proc rate with Mandau's 3.0x proc rate cause it really seems like you did.

I probably just confused it with Mandau, but it would be nice if someone would actually test all of the weapons (or just update their pages) :<

I also wanted to point out that I looked at the previous page and RDM's TP gear selections made me want to cry.

Yes RDM takes it in the nuts for gear selection, it's one of the primary issues RDM has. You can cap haste, or have tons of DA/TA/attack, not both. Temper and Gain-Stat helps alleviate this a little bit but no where near what jobs like BLU / THF / DNC / NIN get. Also not being able to have DWIII and Bergressor relegates RDM into doing solo / "fun" stuff that doesn't have a hint of use.

WS gear selection for Req / KoTR isn't that bad though, tons of STR and MND options.



For the rare occasional that I go kill sh!t for fun.

Are you including the 7% proc rate on the HP additional effect in the calculations?

Enspells overwrite it and ends up being null between them. 500 Enhancing magic is +30 Enspell damage on 100% of your swings. At ~1500 HP (being elvann and 15 HP merits mine is higher then this) your looking at ~375 additional slashing damage. At a 7% proc rate it averages ~26.25 per hit. Even at 1600 HP your only looking at ~28 per swing. The proc rate is simply to low to matter much and SE's stupid idea of having enspells take priority makes it pretty worthless. The only time I could see it being remotely useful is if your fighting something highly resistant to the six primary elements and you couldn't key on an elemental weakness.

I should have known that from the PLD ragefest on the OFs about Enlight overwriting the additional effect, but yeah, that's really disappointing.

Although I guess if you're teaming up with a Dancer you can abuse it.

It would be 24% ODD before factoring in multi hit gear.

Ahh I see how you got there. I did a quick A = B when I should of counted for total damage.

You always do 100% damage. ODD = 200% Damage, OD2.5 = 250% damage. So the difference is 150%, so you multiply by 1.5

Yeah I just worked it out the long way, I forgot about the hits that land.

I don't understand what you mean here