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Conqueror
 Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-14 22:10:11
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »Phoenix.Dramatica said: »Ukon will still come out ahead, bravura is only worthwhile if you need the DT from aftermath to stay alive.
Ukon90 (the highest 99.9% of Ukon owners will ever get) vs Bravura99 should be a nice battle. Bravura's AM isn't just -DT D:
Let's not forget the DefDown it puts on the mob for everyone else :/
I don't think Ukon90 will be much comp to a Bravura99 >.>
As much a Metatron isn't Ukko's I'm sure that the 40% damage boost at 99 will make it more consistent than Ukko's is
Not really, no. Ukon will still be better than Bravura damage wise at 99.
Quetzalcoatl.Generic
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 374
By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2012-01-14 22:15:00
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »Phoenix.Dramatica said: »Ukon will still come out ahead, bravura is only worthwhile if you need the DT from aftermath to stay alive.
Ukon90 (the highest 99.9% of Ukon owners will ever get) vs Bravura99 should be a nice battle. Bravura's AM isn't just -DT D:
Let's not forget the DefDown it puts on the mob for everyone else :/
I don't think Ukon90 will be much comp to a Bravura99 >.>
As much a Metatron isn't Ukko's I'm sure that the 40% damage boost at 99 will make it more consistent than Ukko's is
Not really, no. Ukon will still be better than Bravura damage wise at 99. When did I say anything about Ukon99 ?
I only posted that because from what Taint posted he made it sound like Ukon90 would be equal if not better than Bravura99
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-14 22:18:12
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: »Phoenix.Dramatica said: »Ukon will still come out ahead, bravura is only worthwhile if you need the DT from aftermath to stay alive.
Ukon90 (the highest 99.9% of Ukon owners will ever get) vs Bravura99 should be a nice battle. Bravura's AM isn't just -DT D:
Let's not forget the DefDown it puts on the mob for everyone else :/
I don't think Ukon90 will be much comp to a Bravura99 >.>
As much a Metatron isn't Ukko's I'm sure that the 40% damage boost at 99 will make it more consistent than Ukko's is
Not really, no. Ukon will still be better than Bravura damage wise at 99. When did I say anything about Ukon99 ?
I only posted that because from what Taint posted he made it sound like Ukon90 would be equal if not better than Bravura99
It probably is damage wise. Comes down to utility vs damage.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2821
By Odin.Sheelay 2012-01-14 22:29:28
The Ukko nerf will hurt though and we have no way of telling how big of a boost the enhancement to occasional dmg + on Bravura will be.
I see no real point in arguing over which GA is best when we don't even know what we are really getting.
[+]
Quetzalcoatl.Generic
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 374
By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2012-01-14 22:42:23
Even without knowing the occassional dmg+ (which is probably the 3x dmg it already has) 27 more base dmg and the 40% dmg boost to Metatron is huge >.>
Even for a weaker WS
Let alone Bravura user's can still use Upheaval which is good when geared properly
I don't get how you think that Ukon90 will be close to Brav99
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-14 23:19:18
Current ODD on Bravura is 20%. To be the same as Ukon it would have to be 30%. They're increasing the rate, so they'll be closer, if not the same.
An additional 15% damage to a ws that is weak and you don't use is a moot point.
Ukko's is much better than Upheaval, even post nerf.
So, you have a 27 d difference between Ukko's and Upheaval. Pretty sure Ukon still wins.
All of this despite the fact that getting Bravura costs the same as getting 1500 HMP. If you're getting Bravura thinking it will be a better weapon in all regards to Ukon, you're wrong.
Quetzalcoatl.Generic
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 374
By Quetzalcoatl.Generic 2012-01-14 23:31:14
Current ODD on Bravura is 20%. To be the same as Ukon it would have to be 30%. They're increasing the rate, so they'll be closer, if not the same.
An additional 15% damage to a ws that is weak and you don't use is a moot point.
Ukko's is much better than Upheaval, even post nerf.
So, you have a 27 d difference between Ukko's and Upheaval. Pretty sure Ukon still wins.
All of this despite the fact that getting Bravura costs the same as getting 1500 HMP. If you're getting Bravura thinking it will be a better weapon in all regards to Ukon, you're wrong. How are you so good ?
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-14 23:42:30
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2742
By Fairy.Ghaleon 2012-01-15 00:25:38
Current ODD on Bravura is 20%. To be the same as Ukon it would have to be 30%. They're increasing the rate, so they'll be closer, if not the same.
An additional 15% damage to a ws that is weak and you don't use is a moot point.
Ukko's is much better than Upheaval, even post nerf.
So, you have a 27 d difference between Ukko's and Upheaval. Pretty sure Ukon still wins.
All of this despite the fact that getting Bravura costs the same as getting 1500 HMP. If you're getting Bravura thinking it will be a better weapon in all regards to Ukon, you're wrong.
upheaval is not that bad of a ws if geared properly. war in my ls hit 3k on pil the other day with 95 brovura using upheaval w/o mightystrikes.
he did a 4k upheaval on AV with mighty strikes.
at the very least bravura (99) > ukon (90+) during zergs. lol.
(gogo 150m zerg weapon)
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-15 00:42:13
Not saying it's a bad ws in the least. Nor that Bravura is a bad weapon. Don't take it that way.
Bahamut.Danthebk
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 198
By Bahamut.Danthebk 2012-01-17 08:51:34
I would like to point out, that Bravura costs half as much to make as a 95 Ukon.
Phoenix.Sayomi
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 36
By Phoenix.Sayomi 2012-01-17 09:04:39
Quetzalcoatl.Kyrial said: »Ragnarok.Erikthecleric said: »Not if you're a galka! If you're a Galka, what are you doing swinging around a Great Axe? Get back in those mines and get back to work, fatty. Top Rated Post.
Bahamut.Danthebk
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 198
By Bahamut.Danthebk 2012-01-17 09:31:08
Full Bravura would cost around 130mil, minus 20 mil for the 30 Hundred Bynes, leaves it around 110mil. Plates are selling anywhere between 100-150k each depending on how impatient the seller is. I have no issue selling them for 150k each during JP time. 150mil-225mil for the trial. Upper end of the cost for plates would result in twice the cost of a Bravura.
That's also assuming you're not one of those people shouting to buy currency for 2k less than what most people are selling them for.
All of my prices are based in Bahamut.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 211
By Odin.Almont 2012-01-17 14:44:45
Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »Another thing what narks me is when people go on about bravura been a utility weapon and because of this it shouldn't come close to ukon dps, im pretty sure the people who made bravura back at 75 were not making it to be a second rate great axe.
This is one thing that pisses me off too, but since SE's whim seems to change with the wind there's not much we can do about it. (e.g. Inb4 "We're not lv.75 anymore.")
I'm really holding out hope that the Increased ODD rate is a nice increase, similar to the way they're (apparently?) trying to beef up Metatron's output. Either way, I'm looking forward to throwing out Upheavals "for damage" then switching to Metatron when needed for the added survivability.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 163
By Sylph.Biginallways 2012-01-17 15:05:35
Quetzalcoatl.Vodkaa said: »Another thing what narks me is when people go on about bravura been a utility weapon and because of this it shouldn't come close to ukon dps, im pretty sure the people who made bravura back at 75 were not making it to be a second rate great axe.
This is one thing that pisses me off too, but since SE's whim seems to change with the wind there's not much we can do about it. (e.g. Inb4 "We're not lv.75 anymore.")
I'm really holding out hope that the Increased ODD rate is a nice increase, similar to the way they're (apparently?) trying to beef up Metatron's output. Either way, I'm looking forward to throwing out Upheavals "for damage" then switching to Metatron when needed for the added survivability.
That's exactly what I do, and Ghaleon was referring to me. Ukko's is a better WS atm WHEN BLOODRAGE IS UP. It's very even without bloodrage. I averaged 1700 per WS on Kaggen vs. 1800 from our best ukon war. He won the parse from ODD by 3%. Upheaval spanks Ukko's when both are under Mighty Strikes tho. The war ghaleon was referring to in his earlier post was me btw. Back to the original thread topic. Conqueror would easily beat both Ukon and Bravura atm, but your crazy if you think 90 ukon is going to beat 99 bravura.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-17 15:16:04
And your logic in this is..... your eyeballed numbers?
[+]
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 163
By Sylph.Biginallways 2012-01-17 15:24:14
kparser, we use it for every fight.... I guess you didn't catch it when i said the ukon war won the kaggen parse by 3%? What's your logic since you have neither weapon nor parser data to back up your claim that 90 ukon would beat a 99 bravura?
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-17 15:25:51
Something about math and using spreadsheets. Parses just show damage differences between players, nothing else.
So, yea. Your input is garbage.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 163
By Sylph.Biginallways 2012-01-17 15:26:50
K, let's see your math then. Post it. I call BS.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-17 15:30:16
Do it yourself. The spreadsheets are readily available. I already did it awhile ago in another thread.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 163
By Sylph.Biginallways 2012-01-17 15:34:33
I don't see where you ever posted math showing that 90 ukon will beat 95 conqueror or 99 bravura. Once again, you jack a thread flaming with no numbers to back your claims up. In a fight where aftermath is sustained, conqueror will win by a country mile.
[+]
Ragnarok.Ejiin
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2012-01-17 15:37:40
1800 average on Kaggen at 99 is god awful. It was awful at 95, too. Your buddy was bragging about 3K on Pil... that's pathetic.
Stop clinging to your relic; it sucks. Go spend a week to farm a 90 Ukon and stop gimping yourself.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-17 15:39:30
Sylph.Biginallways said: »I don't see where you ever posted math showing that 90 ukon will beat 95 conqueror or 99 bravura.
Apparently you can't read. Regardless, I threw out the comparison further up in this page.
Quote: Once again, you jack a thread flaming with no numbers to back your claims up.
You're the one making statements with nothing reasonable to back it up.
Quote: In a fight where aftermath is sustained, conqueror will win by a country mile.
No *** ***. I only said Ukon is a better dps weapon than Bravura.
[+]
By Biggie87 2012-01-17 15:40:02
1800 average on Kaggen at 99 is god awful. It was awful at 95, too. Your buddy was bragging about 3K on Pil... that's pathetic.
Stop clinging to your relic; it sucks. Go spend a week to farm a 90 Ukon and stop gimping yourself.
We don't use chaos roll ejin, which I know you guys do b/c you've said it up here multiple times so don't come flaming yourself. Miser's + Tacticians is the fastest way to go even tho you won't see epeen WS numbers. Don't jack the thread to flame. Stick to the original topic.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 325
By Sylph.Sukasaroth 2012-01-17 15:42:30
[+]
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 163
By Sylph.Biginallways 2012-01-17 15:42:48
"Not really, no. Ukon will still be better than Bravura damage wise at 99."
"You're the one making statements with nothing reasonable to back it up."
^ back up your first statement then, since apparently you have loads of proof.
Bahamut.Serj
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6179
By Bahamut.Serj 2012-01-17 15:43:35
Current ODD on Bravura is 20%. To be the same as Ukon it would have to be 30%. They're increasing the rate, so they'll be closer, if not the same.
An additional 15% damage to a ws that is weak and you don't use is a moot point.
Ukko's is much better than Upheaval, even post nerf.
So, you have a 27 d difference between Ukko's and Upheaval. Pretty sure Ukon still wins.
All of this despite the fact that getting Bravura costs the same as getting 1500 HMP. If you're getting Bravura thinking it will be a better weapon in all regards to Ukon, you're wrong.
Reading is hard.
Ragnarok.Ejiin
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 528
By Ragnarok.Ejiin 2012-01-17 15:47:09
We don't use chaos roll ejin
You should be.
Miser's + Tacticians is the fastest way to go
Nope.
Don't jack the thread to flame. Stick to the original topic.
You're the one who starting white knighting your relic, against what everyone else has said and what numbers have proven, all based on your eyeballing parses. Brav is a situational weapon at best. It will never beat Ukon's DD in a situation where the party/ally doesn't suck.
So with the nerf incoming for the ukon where does the Conqueror stand compared to the ukon?
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