Another Set Advice Thread

You tested it? I'm sure you'll have no problem sharing your data then. I assume it's properly controlled and has an appropriate confidence interval since you're such a reputable player.


Oshit macros are hard.

***'s situational. There's your period.

Reading is indeed fundamental - in this case, I'd suggesting noting that 1) more than 3/4 of the posts were made before the 95 cap update and 2) Langbedeve has gone almost entirely undiscussed in favor of the superior OAT polearm.

Sawtelle got a fairly low critrate fulltiming about 170 DEX vs the T1 Mandragora. Mandys might have a relatively high racial AGI, not sure, but MNK has the second worst AGI score of any job (tied with BRD/BST and beating only PLD). Given that it's a T1 mob from the first stage, I would expect new T3 NMs to have values that are higher still. Sky god stats v2 basically.

You mean you equip both, and then eyeball which is giving greater returns? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, Mr. Reputable.

I honestly feel that people, very much like yourself, who show a very blatant disinterest in intellectual growth in regard to how this game works should be banned on the spot. You've made it quite clear that you will never have any accurate information to present to any reader.

How come his equip history doesn't have neither Love Torque or Rancor Collar? I thought he had both tested himself ; ;

When you're that reputable, you don't need to actually do the things you say you do that others don't do because you do.

Unfortunately a great many people that 'test' things do so with good intention, but simply dont realize that the methods arent accurate enough. Writing down a handful of WS/Melee hits/whatever your measuring just isnt sufficient to prove or disprove anything.

There is a misconception about how 'noticable' a gear change is and combined with a misunderstanding of how big one actions damage spread can actually be. It leads genuinely good intentioned testers to bad results.

The fact is simply, the way damage is programed in this game creates HUGE variations. You can NOT hit a mob 20 times and think you know what your damage 'should' be, change 1 piece of gear and do another 20 and get a different number and say case closed. The damage spread in this game is REALLY unforgiving for tests. They literally require hundreds to thousands of trials under STATIC conditions to nail down the exact numbers. Then repeat the entire process for what you change.

This is simply not practical and the vast majority of 'tests' people do are not anywhere near this involved, and therefore often incorrect results.

This is not to rag on people doing their own tests. Tests are great, but if they are not done properly the results are useless, no matter how well intentioned they may be. Most players that dont really know the damage formulas in a very concrete way just dont understand how extensive something has to be to hold any degree of confidence.

Doing thousands of trials for every piece of gear is really impractical and a waste of time. This is why people just use pencil and paper (or a calculator or excel :P) because I can tell you exactly what bier belt, rancor collar, or anything else does in 5-10 minutes instead of 10s of hours 'testing' in the field just to have the same result. There is no mystery about how damage works, it has been worked out for years at the most basic levels.

This is why you get flamed. You may have good intentions, but coming in and claiming thigns that go against the norm, you NEED to have very detailed and accurate testing to disprove the accepted values. Without providing that testing, you will not be taken seriously.

I and most people generally support testing on anything people doubt. New information is always better than no information. If people are wrong, we would rather know that and adjust our gear than to sit back and be less optimized. If you can provide the tests, we can work to solidify them to an acceptable accuracy.

If you would like to learn more about what you need to do to provide better tests, just ask around. Lots of people will respond positively about how to test better and why its important to do so. Id be happy to get into it if needed.
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As far as dex and bier belt, I used to really heavily promote dex based gear, but that is also because it was generally the best gear around (75:Heca, raja, warwolf, aurum body, love torque etc. ~90: Heca, lancers, rajas, pipilaka, twilight gear etc). Most of that gear has really high levels of dex by accident so it made sense. But more recently, we are finally getting gear that rivals the dex gear with a LOT more str/atk etc. Aces mail>Lancers, mikara+1 hat>Twilight.

I am a little less of a stickler for dex now just because the gear options are changing, but drakesbane and dex gear is another topic i can elaborate on some other post. My position is starting to shift a bit on that with recent developments.

I totally posted this while browsing another thread and now I feel like an *** for potentially almost derailing that thread:

Aana, can i get your opinion?

This is what I'm looking at for tp:



This will give me 4 hits after 4/4. Is there a way to get 4 hits after 2/3 out of 4 that won't murder my gear? Drg already has a 20% attack deficit to half the other DD jobs, I don't want to make it worse.

Toyed around with some sets.

This one has the same STP as yours (still a 4/4 needed) but with some more POWA. Seems to me to be a straight upgrade offensively, but no upgrade in STP.


Difference between your set and this one:
This set has:
-4str
+3atk (even with the -4 str. Still net atk gain)
+5% crit rate (Big one)
+29-30acc (dex rounding)
+14 dex (lolDdex)
Same STP
Same Haste

Id call this straight up upgrade. -4str for 5% crit rate alone is win. Toss in 3atk, 29-30 acc and 14Ddex and its head and shoulders up. Give them nothing. Take from them EVERYTHING! (of course this is assuming you can stomach the -hp, -resists, +10% damage from bullwhip/rancor. Offensively its beastly)

As for your specific question to get to 3/4, its on a funky breakpoint and getting that fine depends on your WS gear. My WS gear has 35 stp with /sam and with that, you only need ONE more STP in TP gear to get 3/4. The trouble is getting rid of just ONE stp without messing up your haste. Theres not really a combo of gear that gets you exactly 43stp and exactly 26% haste without under/overshooting the other unless you use lancers mantle. The pieces just dont move well. The best I can come up with makes you give up 1% haste, but lands you exactly at 43stp and keeps atk/etc all high.

25% haste, 43stp 3/4 build:

Vs your example set this one has:
+1stp (3/4)
+5% crit rate (very nice)
-1% haste (25%)
-4str
-5atk (including the -4str)
+29-30 acc (nothing to sneeze at)
+14 dex (lolDdex)

Trouble with 26 haste is: I could drop goading for Bullwhip, but then im out 5stp. Put on 4 tyrants...now i have 26% haste but 1stp short again and back to square 1.

Their are only 2 options i can think of to keep 26 haste and +1stp.
1: Drop atheling for lancers 1% haste. Ewww.
2: Drop goading/Blitz/Rancor(5stp) for Bullwhip/Tyrant/Houyi. +1 haste, +2stp, +8atk, -5crit rate. Now your overshooting stp and lost 5%crit rate for 8atk. Ewww.

However, if you WS in less STP than I do, you might actually need the extra stp on houyi to land 3/4 anyway so that doesnt suck so bad since its not overkill STP. But that would depend on what you WS in and if that little STP makes that breakpoint for you. If it does, then you basically choose between 3/4 drakes, 26% haste +8atk vs 3/4 drakes 25% haste, 5% crit rate. Thats a rough call. 5% crit vs 8atk and ~0.6% haste or whatev. /shrug.

But that is still only IF you ws in less STP than me AND +2stp makes up for that, otherwise your stuck at 4/4 anyway.
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TLDR: Need your exact WS STP numbers to see if its possible to do what you want to, but i kinda doubt it. Using my STP WS, the STP vs haste options just cant line up to 3/4hit-26% haste without giving up something. But, until we figure out what, if anything, we can do about it, id reccomend the top set with same STP as yours but more of everything else(assuming you can stomach the -hp, -resists, +10% damage from bullwhip/rancor. If you cant, jsut stick with whatcha got :P)

Ugh... I see what you mean.

This is what I'm currently using:





I suppose your second option would be a more practical upgrade. I used to want regain earring to overcome the 1stp but I'm on drk more often now and would want tp bonus more for that :/

Is 5 hit really worth losing out on potentially 15~18 attack, 5~9 STR, 3% crit rate, 10% crit damage and around 5 accuracy in VW? Specially with a Oa2 weapon and jumps?

I use vougier's on the higher defense ones with a different build. This is for low defense and while I'm trying to stagger.

This thread looks like it could use a bump!

Hello Dragoon forums looking for a little help for my poor Dragoon that never gets to see the light of day :( this is what I tossed together from my other jobs!

TP:



WS:

Hct. Mitts augmented with +4% Crit hit dmg



I won't be doing the OAT polearm any time soon because I'm pretty lazy and It can't be helped lol.. so this is what I'm rolling with!

oh sorry I just ninja edited I have +4% Crit Hit Dmg on them I'm 2 seals away from +2 but in no rush D: lol

Oh also does anyone have a up to date Drg Spellcast that I could copy? :D

Swap Rose Strap for Claymore Grip. WS

Swap Light Belt for Pipilaka Belt. WS

Dusk +1 for Timarli Dastanas if you want to get rid of the gravity. TP

You should consider Lancer's Plackart +2. WS

Light Earring with Crit +1 Augment. WS

Moonshade Earring, +4 ATK +1 Regain. TP

Twilight Helm. WS

Those are the things I use in my WS set for Drakesbane. Quite happy with it at the moment.

sorry for bumping this thread but i didnt want to make a whole new thread for one question. but how much stp do you need for 5hit when using OaT polearm. at 507 delay im hoping it isnt too high? im just worried im wearing too much stp or not enough XD

507 Delay 5 Hit requires: +45 stp.

However, an effective more powerful build is:

AF3+2 Body
Hagneia Stone
Rajas Ring
Tyrant Ring, or Hoard Ring
Brutal Earring
Houyi's Gorget
Goading Belt

This opens up your grip slot for Claymore Grip.

With other obvious gear it lands you (24%)23.54% Haste.

However, if you wanted to because you're a haste junkie.

Sub out Goading Belt for Bullwhip Belt. However, this requires you sub out Claymore Grip for Rose Strap.

The Bullwhip belt build will land you in: 25% Haste flat, as well as a perfect 5 hit.

If you want to get really crazy with a 5 hit, you can sub out bullwhip belt for a goading belt, which will give you 20.7 tp a hit, allowing for a 5 hit even when you Drakesbane returns 18 TP.

Good luck

So, with new gear are these the new age WS set for DRG Drakesbane?



or



And Stardiver



So, from what I can see... some has changed but not much.

Thoughts?

Is OaT trial polearm still the best option if you don't have relic/mythic/empy? Or is there anything new? (NM drop, sTP trial, ...)

Fixed for you.

He means yes btw.

Anyone care to pick apart this set:

TP:


Stardiver:


If I am correct, using OAT polarm (7/10 Blobs, oh yay!) these 2 sets should provide a 5-hit as long as at least 2 hits land on WS. /sam not required.

I will probably move to rancor collar on TP. Not counting the +1 body (I'll redo my set when I get that), tyrants ring, and rose strap (all stuff I'll be working on) are there any obvious upgrades. I'm not really considering R/EX items from VW since attaining those is hit or miss for me at this time.

Finally are NQ heca feet sans augs worth using until I can augment or make HQ feet? I could sub in Lancer's feet or something I haven't thought of.

No rancor piece for WS? and Zahak's mail(if 5hit still works didn't check).

What would be the absolute ideal set for both tp and stardiver for a Gungnir Drg? Maybe for both /sam and /war? Tried /war a few times and it seemed to do ok, but not sure its worth it. Slightly stronger melee/ws vs. faster tp gain ect. Want something to work towards and interested in other peoples opinions. Please assume no gear is out of reach. Thanks in advance.

Inb4 loldrg and get a OaT ect ect.

I have half a mind to try this.



However, this is my /SAM set.



Pretty generic, Haste +4% Bestia Breeches.

When Conserve TP triggers it allows for a 5 hit.

If you have a TP Bonus earring, replace: Neck, Ear, Grip, Ring, Ammo with: Houyi's Gorget, Hagneia Stone, Rose Strap, Tyrants Ring, Regain Earring (Optional Not Required) unless you use a 1 hit WS: Geirskogul, Sonic Thrust.

With current TP Gear there is no possibility of getting a reliable 5 hit with WAR. If Askar +5 is real, then that will allow for a 5 hit /WAR.

/WAR is viable against nms such as T5+ VW. The increased power in each WS is huge. Regain + Save TP allows for a 2 hit build pretty much, impossible to secure a 1 hit build after a 60~ TP return.

What about this set? Lacks a lot of dex so not sure how this will effect crit rate, but has a bunch of att which is something drg lacks. Still has a comfortable 6 hit and is 26% haste

Well, you are right when you say it's lacking a lot of dex. Current end game voidwatch has a lot of agi/evasion.

So -12 accuracy, 12.75 from dex, -24.75 Accuracy total with this setup.

You also lose a % Chance to trigger ODD with your set bonus, which can stack with your OD2.5 for a huge impact

The attack difference on body isn't game breaking either, simply: +7 attack.You also lose 10 STP which will make your Conserve TP procs for that 5 hit rarer.

As far as lighter content we don't get enough dex to truely cap on most during TP, but we get a hefty chunk outside of Abyssea.

Able to mess around with 20%-22% on most things without Rancor Collar.

Comment on Patient. Lance states


Where the hell is the data for such a claim I really want to see it.

Bump anyone? I thought it included all jumps.