Is 85 > 90 Kannagi Worth It?

If you dont give a crap to do anything above 85, you just want the ws and should have done a WOE version that will be easy to upgrade to 99 and have waaay more base damage to boot.

prove it

You can play semantic *** all day about my word choice but it doesnt change anything.

Term 'know' is rather obviously implied in this instance to mean "With an extremely high degree of certainty" which is based on an avalanche of existing information.

*existing trials to date are FAR easier. Herp derp 50 seals vs 50 glavoid shells?
*Empy path has been laid out as the most powerful path on par with relic weapons since the expansions were released and empy weapons highlighted as relic rivals
*The universal inferiority of all WOE paths compared to the empy paths

Your smoking good stuff if you have any inkling feeling that the WOE path is suddenly going to skyrocket past empys in difficulty or in performance as we continue to 99. It goes against existing information and all rational thought.

Speculation is usually better served by basing it on existing information/trends and extrapolating that into the future. Not just pulling crap out of thin air.

E-peen +1 thats why you do it.
that and you're gimp if you dont

1) I was joking
2) I bet I can complete an empy faster than you can get the WoE coins
3) I was joking
4) You can't be sure of anything. What if they make the empyrean's next trials "do 100 ws kills" because there is nothing else to kill in abyssea to drop from.
5)
Speculation IS just pulling crap out of thin air, lol. This time last year people were talking about how awesome salvage augments were going to be and how samurai would always be the reigning dd champ BECAUSE THAT WAS THE EXISTING TREND. I just wanted to point out the fact that you were assuming quite a bit of information and sorry if umad. I honestly wasn't implying you were stupid or "dissecting the symantics". I genuinely was just implying "I'll take that bet". The ease of 99 AND the "woe base damage will beat empy" bet too.

yes this made no sense to me, i chalked it up to a typo i hope he meant the other way around

edit: but as I read it again it seems like a hard mistake to make

In his defense, I was pretty sure his post read "easier to obtain 99" not "easy". My bad.

Personally, I didn't get that feeling from his post. Just shed light on a different perspective.

Heh the internet has jaded me to humor. (That and only recently start posting here so dont know who the kidders are yet :P) So i just assume everything is serious because the internet is serious business.

Also, ill take that bet :P Ive done a couple empys and a WOE (with enough coins for at least 2 more). Depending on resources it is possible to have an easy path empy get to 80 faster than a WOE to 80, but most people that say that are comparing someone soloing coins(not killing bosses) vs a small group doing empy(very hard/impossible to solo and variable based on weapon/job). Give the same resources to both and WOE can usually be done faster.

You would have to be superhuman or on crack to get an empy to 85/90 in the time it takes to get a WOE weapon to that point. After you get 30 coins, you can finish in a few minutes to 90 as most have seals/points laying around for WOE path. Empys just reving up then.

As far as speculation, it makes far more sense to me to consider an extension of the existing when looking at the future. If you dont base a guess on something known, then it has no foundation in anythiing at all and is just a wild pot shot in a random direction. Ill take my chances with basing my guess on SOMETHING tangible instead of nothing at all. Is it always right? No. Is it more probable than having no basis at all for a claim pulled out of nothing? yes. On one hand you have a possible path based on the existing. On the other you have an infinite array of possibilities and you just pluck one with none being more likely than any other as none have any foundation in reason.

Ill take my chances, you can take yours. I just prefer to take mine with higher probability :P

Wow, didn't expect this thread to still be going, lol.

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm working on my horns, albeit very very slowly. I've got 2 accounts, my main and a whm mule, so it's a bit of a pain to get red procs on dhorme with only the 1 melee account (once went on a streak of red being Shadow of Death for 8 fights in a row). I can dualbox Apademak easily enough using an Ascetic drink on my whm for stun accuracy, but I don't have much fun fighting him so I usually just brew two at a time. It's a waste of 2 mins of brew time, yes, but meh.

To people suggesting WoE weapons: I made a Tobi+2 before I went for Kannagi. Lower delay and ODD makes 85 empy better than 90 WoE by a pretty decent margin, though that may change at 95/99. They've said they're doing a major revamp of WoE, so it's a safe bet that they have something planned for WoE weapons (though this is just speculation of course). To Aanalaty - my Tobi+2 actually took more effort than getting Kannagi to 85 (90 is a different story though, as you said :x). Of course this depends on how popular WoE is on your server, and how much competition there is for sobek/briareus NMs.

The main point of this thread was just to find out if there was any sort of hidden damage boost to WS or ODD, like the upgraded relics/mythics got. If there was, it'd be a lot more worth it to grind thru 75 horns in a few days, rather than take it slow.

The topic is mostly resolved, but I did always wonder why it was that SE made certain weapon paths "easier" (ok, I know how loaded that word is for some, given everything can be seen as "easy" nowadays) by having the NM key items for some 85 > 90 paths come from directly from gold chests but not for others.

SE likes to make the empyreans (at least at 90) seem all equal, but it would have been great if the Torn Khimaira Wing key item from Dhorme Khimaira (to pop Apademak) could be taken from a gold chest, just like Dragua's and Isgebind's key item pops. I don't want to sound lazy, but there does seem to be a difference in how those other trials play out, which I would guess is ultimately reflected in the number of level 90 versions of those weapons.

I was honestly very peeved at 80/85 trials for my Twashtar (Glavoid>Itza>Orthrus) and assumed orthrus would be a nightmare too (it really wasnt at all). But then I looked at some of the other paths and helped a number of people work on various weapons that had it 'easier' and realized, by the time you finish all the way to 90, pretty much all of them have some PITA phase. It kinda balances out (very roughly) in the end.

EG:
Briarius(lulz easy)>Sobek(minor pain), Apa(HUGE pain).
Glavoid(HUGE pain)>Itza(minor pain), Orthrus(pretty easy)
Carabosse(lulz easy), Cirein(competition sucks), isgebind(medium)
Chloris(pain), Ulhuadash (medium), Dragua (lulz if you have a good setup. Free fanatic spam with good DDs)
Etc

Its not 100% even across the board, but it is WAY more balanced than I used to think it was. Everyone has something that really sucks. Just a matter of if its front or back loaded. Some are hard to farm (Chloris/Glav etc), some are hard to kill (apademak/Azdaja etc), some are overcamped (guku/frog/amun etc).Before your done, you WILL have to go through 2-3 of those problems with pretty much any weapon.

I have changed my stance in the last few months on the overall balance in difficulty to get an empy. Some are easy to get to 85 so they 'seem' easier, then you look at their 90 trials and cringe and vice versa. In the end, an 85 weapon will suck compared to a 99 version so everyone has to slog through the mud if they want a useful weapon eventually, or get left behind forever stuck with the bandwagons that gave up when it got hard :P

since when emps gives epeen? specially a lolkannagi

I don't really see any problem with any of the trials except for 3.

Glavoid is and always will be a total *** to deal with. Between the 4 KIs needed to the stupid people that we all have to deal with.
Apademak is another one that is a semi-pain to get pops for. I see people brew it all the time, since they don't want to deal with finding people and fighting normal. So, this one isn't a problem if people are willing to spend the cruor.
Fistule. The only NM that is truely time consuming, but not many people do this one (except RNGs). Not too big a deal. Most already have it out of the way.

The Cara/CC/Isge line is obviously the easiest. Compared to the others, it does seem unfair. I just finished my 90 gun with almost mo problems (brew running out on 7th isgebind QQ.)

@ 1st post: It was probably said already, but if it hasn't.. I would do the 90 trials now, while not many are doing them and still reeling over the "omg get 85 for ws only" fits. With the level cap raise around the corner, in a month or 2(?), I would just do it to get it out of the way. This way youll have a 90 weapon and not an 85 at level 95/99. You wont be fighting with others as much or rushing to get it done to do the next one (if SE makes it like the relic/mythic trials for X amount of WS).

Old, but lol at how nobody noticed the blood rage.

+20% crit dmg and rate ftw?