Job Adjustments And Additions: What Next? What Do You Hope For?

I'm really bad about arguing everything with an analogy, but here goes again :/

Consider your jobs in ffxi as if they were vehicles you own. If you can only own one vehicle and that was it, then having a hybrid type vehicle that can drive streets / dirt road / some off road would be great. But as time passed and you began to acquire more and more vehicles, like a High end sports car and a massive tire off roading truck would you still take your hybrid to street race, or to a rock climb?

FFXI has been around long enough that many players have 4-8 jobs they can use effectively, so of course people are going to use what works best for each situation and lol at people doing otherwise.

Also, you must consider the game content. Once you have done the same thing so many times, you can't deny that it begins to lose its appeal. To combat this there are really two ways you can approach it, either get it done as quickly as possible or take it on is some crazy *** way just to see if you can. IF you use pup for the later you won't recieve any LOLZ from people since your whole purpose is to go out on a limb, but I think most people will choose the former b/c they aren't willing to take a chance losing and don't want to spend the time to try something like that when they would rather be doing X event.

^this



Light Carol, Dark Carol. Learn it, live it, love it.

And as for the new avatars, they're Pandy warden and Absolute virtue duh! you just gotta be able to kill em!
cue smn /wrists

Personally, above all else i'd like to see limited access to subjobs 2hours. WAR/SAM Meikyo Shisui >> Mighty Strikes ftw.

edit: On the PUP talk, I had been leveling it for the sheer fun factor not BNS. I wouldn't bring it to many events over my other jobs unless I had a real good reason to do so. I hear BLM frame is good on kirin.

I disagree, there's nothing wrong with being useful in every situation even if you're not the best in any. Versatility is one of the things that makes blu great (although a lot of people never realise the potential it has in versatility), yet can you tell me one situation where blu is the best job to use? In serious end-game, no blu is ever going to be the highest DD, or the best healer, tank or kiter. However, blu can do all of these roles when called for, as well as... unique... debuffs and being able to solo a twice as much as any other job (except rdm *shakes fist*).

I'm referring to blu because I don't know pup as well, but a jack of all trades, master of none can be a good thing. Especially when you're doing something new and you're not totally sure what to expect, a job that can cater for all situations is ideal. On top of all this, I've heard that pup can do some pretty serious damage with rng and/or blm frame.

I think the main issue with pup is that it's too complicated for most people, it's the most expensive job in the game to get all the attachments, and people concentrate more on pup's crappy h2h skill and gear selections than on the actual automaton (the automaton that has A+ skills in some things).


Be right over Kiri!

A PUP can do alot of dmg, I have out parsed alot of RNGs, DRGs, and SAMs against birds... A Spiritreaver can do the same amount of dmg with a the right set up as a BLM can do with the same spell plus you have PUP meleeing at same time. There is alot of info on the Wiki Forums http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewforum.php?f=76 for ppl who havent ever really played the job or ever really pted with a good one, only complaint I could ever see anyone have with a PUP is we cant control our Autos WS's. One problem ppl seem to have is that we have low weapon grades but when we are geared well (as almost all of you would want from any other job you pt with) including full attachments you will be impressed, just hope you like Skillchaining with my Auto ^^.

You could argue that BLU is the best Spike damage on anything big while still being able to remain outside of AOE and they don't require TP to do this.
Blu is also the best job at being able to stun over and over very quickly.
I would also say blu is the best at being both self healing and able to deal high damage in the same setting.
Blu also has the ability to deal all three types of physical damage without having to change their weapons.

When considering the gear sets that a Blu needs to maximize these different facets of itself, you may call Blu a jack of all trades, but to me, Blu is one of the most specialized jobs in the game.

I agree, that Pup can put out impressive damage (in relation to most peoples preconceived ideas about it) but an equally geared/skilled person on a job designed for that specific role is going to outperform the pup.

I think alot of this could be changed if the Pup was given higher control of the robut, but at the same time it would be the samething as playing w/e job your robut was set up as which then leads you to question why make a new job to do the same things as X job.

I could see PUP being a viable option for players that have already maxed out their magic skill merits in other areas and would like to be able to somewhat specialize in dealing magic damage if called upon to do so.
Same for players with combat skills maxed and no other option to invest in a form of piercing damage.
I dunno, i'm pro-pup^^

I hear what you're saying, but I think it's slightly detrimental to the "spirit" of the game to make everything so homogeneous and boring, and when certain jobs get the shaft when it comes to finding an exp party because of that, I think that's unfortunate. I've been in parties with BSTs and PUP's and found that they can put out some nice damage, but of course, everyone wants a SAM instead. As a DNC main, it's a little frustrating...when the job first came out everyone wanted a DNC, now not so much. I find it to be a pretty powerful job, and have main healed full parties with no problem and no downtime whatsoever (admittedly in a limited sense at the higher levels, as I'm pretty much a Campaign *** anymore), but a lot of people don't even want to take the chance.

If you're working on your 5th 75 or something, I can understand wanting to make the process as quick as possible, but I think something's lost taking that approach. The appeal that's lost on the 3rd or 4th trip through a certain level range might be regained if people mixed it up a bit more and tried new things. Personally, I'm always open to giving something new a shot...but most aren't. Cookie cutter party builds and such just serve to instill those sterotypes to people that haven't been through a certain aspect of the game before, and then the attitude of "if a party doesn't include these 6 jobs it's broken and a waste of time" becomes the norm. That kinda sucks...

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, and I respect that. I just wish the community as a whole was a little more "adventurous" so to speak, and it wasn't all about the numbers. Maybe I just started playing the game too late in it's life cycle; it would have been interesting to play FFXI before it turned into a giant math equation...

1: Considering how good my blu is in general, my cannonball build really sucks, I just can't get high numbers out of it so I won't really comment more on that. But I reckon rng would beat it, and if you're talking magical damage then blm wins... (although I think I hold the highest damage record on Jailer of Hope in my LS, as my Heat Breath was unresisted for ~1150 while AMII's were struggling to reach 1k... I think)
2: Unreliable though, blu physical spells, including head butt, are capped like all melee skills at 95% accuracy. That's not a huge issue, but on most HNM's head butt just doesn't take effect
3: Yeah probably.
4: This is true... In fact as blu/thf you can do very high damage with all three types, disseverment is piercing, hysteric barrage/frenetic rip are blunt and SATA Vertical Cleave is (inconsistently) one of the highest damage spells blu has, which is slashing.

5: Not really sure what you mean by this, but I run around with 66/70 inventory all from gear, and there are still a couple pieces I leave at home and some I haven't bothered up-grading because of inventory issues. I'd love to put more work into my INT and MND builds, and a proper tanking build would be cool, and there's some sort of cult sensation with Eyes On Me, so that needs a CHR build... (although I've played with it as blu/brd and chr etude... beats me what the fuss is)

Okay... so maybe blu is fairly good at a few specific things, as well as being versatile, but my point is that pup is also really versatile, and while it costs a lot to get all the frames, pup is a lot faster and switching modes than blu (aside from a gear change, I need to reset spells and then wait 1 minute for them to take effect when switching between a full magic nuking set-up and a melee set-up etc.). And for all I know, there might be something that pup really excels at. A good friend of mine is working on pup as her 20th level 75, and she's the only person I know that's levelled it, so maybe I can find a little more out about pup when she gets there lol.

By the way, be this as a lesson not to get me talking about blu <_< (and we'll ignore the fact that I started it)

More Job Adjustments talk! go!

http://forums.ffxiclopedia.org/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=18337
Here is a great forum page where they took alot of time and effort to max out there Spiritreavers dmg and ended up doing more dmg then the BLMs.

fail page is fail

To XX#2XX: If you started ffxi around or after TOAU then you did miss out on a lot stuff. There def is a huge disconnect between the Zilart people and the ToaU people. I look at it like this.

1.Noob 2.Leveling 3.perfecting 4.Try everything under the sun 5.Found what works best 6.Jaded endgame player

Zilart Player 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6
ToaU Player-------- 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6

I think most of the Zilart players once thought about the same as you do, try it all and see, but through a natrual progression over time the philosophy has changed. Due to the large gap between when different players started the game you see a different way of thinking. Like a parent telling their kid not to drink. They are going to do it anyway, and the parent knows this, but it is still frustrating to the parent.

So by your own logic you're a jaded end-game player... why do you still play?

I have a lot of time and emotion invested in my character, and still find some stuff fun. It's also fun to watch people in my shell grow and learn and get better.

As far as job adjustments
War- Its Fine
Mnk- Let mnk equip any weapon with footwork
Thf- Give us better info on TH
Rdm- Fine
Whm- Maybe fixed
Blm- Fine
Pld- More than fine
Nin- Everyting :/ Making San jitsu worth a damn would be nice, and throwing WS
Drg- Fine now with drakes
Drk- T3 nukes and make abs spells work on HNM
Brd- Fine
Smn- Update coming
Rng- Fine
Sam- Fine
Bst- No idea about bst
Blu- A useful 2hr would be nice
Cor- Movement speed roll as others said would be cool / more MAB gear
Pup- A hellva lot
Sch- Also is Fine, maybe make helix more useful
Dnc- Higher tier Cure and Curaga

I have no problem with some one hateing a job, I personlay hate lvling mage jobs. My problem with your PUP sucks argument is that it seems you dont know anything about the job, It doesnt matter that youve played the game sense the dawn of Vana'diel time it doesnt mean you know how a job works till you play it alot. I can read all I want about SAM and RDM jobs and I have been in a ton of pts with both and seen them do there thing but I will never know really how great they are till I decide to lvl them. I'm sorry that you seem to just not wanna give PUP a chance and I will not try anymore to argue the point further but it still sucks that you are so close minded about a great job....

One last note, you keep saying that we don't have control over our Autos but imo we have more control then any other pet job we control every thing they do really.... Just WS's seem to be the main problem with control on our part we can either have it WS when they get 100 TP or have it save TP to skillchain with others.

Damn that sucks, ws at 100% means it'll go whenever it pleases and *** up SC's. Having it set to SC with others means it'll go straight after someone else... and *** up the SC...

Yet it is the only real problem I have with my Auto, that would be something I would realy wanna get a fix tbh...
Well that and new gear for me :p

Plz don't come argue about the pro's and con's of a job when you have yet to do anything in the game other than xp.

LIES! needs to make brd head a better drop rate ; ; (plus need some better songs. att/march are boring as ***compared to cor rolls. a regain song would be awesome >.> and a 'sleep II' song.)

I did start pretty much around ToAU launch. I have to admit, it was frustrating back then, even...there were lots more people playing; but everyone was off *** around in Wajaom and Bhaflau, so it was for naught (pre-level sync, trying to get parties in low level areas was SUCH a *** chore post-ToAU, as I'm sure you remember). Hell, I didn't even set foot in WG until like a year ago >.<

I concede to your outlook on the player base, but it still saddens me a bit that the bulk of community is stuck in the endless "Nyzul/HNM/Dynamis/Merit" cycle. As I've never participated in that stuff, I wonder...don't you guys ever get bored doing the same ***day after day, week after week? I know I would...and that's yet another thing that makes me wonder if I'm ever going to really be able to participate in that ***without my head exploding...and even after that, I'm still gonna have to set aside that "*** around trying new ***" time to stave it off. I guess I can understand why people just up and quit randomly, now more then ever...

Lesson learned, though: Don't fall in love with an MMO that's been established as long as FFXI has. Next game that catches my interest, I'm jumping on that ***while it's fresh...

/sigh

And yet you are more then able to argue about the pro's and con's of a job you never lvled.... good point.
And sure I'm only doing Dyna at this point, but I also run my own CoP and ToAH shell and hopefully I'll big and strong one day too....

Cycling endgame stuff is no different then craft/exping all day. Hell, I bet they look at us like "Jeez do they ever get bored of 'dinging' all day?"

I dunno, I find the "exploration" of a job, getting the new abilities and playing with them, etc, hella fun. Personally, I'll take that over endlessly fighting the same ***, with the same jobs, for a new more uber piece of gear, any day. Not taking away from people that enjoy the endgame ***, to each their own...I just personally don't know if I have the force of will to do the same thing over and over and over again and keep my sanity intact. My static is always trying out new ***, new party combinations, new areas to level, etc...and it keeps things interesting for us, anyways.

Crafting, on the other hand, is just a sadistic time vampire. The rewards are great, but grinding exp is a HELL of a lot more gratifying then grinding a craft. Prolly is why my cooking has been level 80 for 2 months...I swear to god I'm so sick of making Marron Glace >.<

yes, most people are hella bored with most of the content in the game, which is why they always want things done as quickly as possible. This is why people want you come as this job with this gear or gtfo. The problem is that people still need gear from these events and the drive to be the best keeps us going back to them time and time again. Not to mention seeing that certain item drop will still make your heart race, even if you hate the event more than satan.

Oooh I wonder if BRD will get anything o.o <3


See Urial, Blazza wants some {fun} >_>

PSU already beat us to Whips last year. O.O
They actually kicked ***.

When you do enough different events with different people its not really that hard to tell what a job is doing well and what its failing at.
EX:
1. Pupguy in pretty decent gear, with lots of acc eats sushi = FAIL
2. P1 tp = 110% P2 tp = 140% OK blm INC DRK be ready! P1 WS > pup random WS > P2 WS. WTF PUP gtfo
3. P1 readies WS > blm pup casts Bliz IV > mob moves tp =0% GDI pup
4. Pupguy does /dance > robot whirls around = FAIL
5. Pup readies HF Xmob takes 350 damage Mnk readies HF Xmob takes 800 damage
6. LS leader /l Ok guys what you wanna do tonight. Pup /l hey guyz moar ob!! = FAIL
7. You find a Valor Surcoat on the XXX , everyone = OMG OO YAY WOW, you find a patin tobe on the XXX, everyone GAH SUCK GDI /WRIST = FAIL

But seriously, I'm not saying Pup can't do anything decent, I am saying that there isnt anything they can do, that another job can't already do better.

Im sorry kiri your bard must be 75 to enjoy this ride ^^

Arguments I have:

1) When did PUP get decent gear?
2) PUP's fault for not knowing what the inhibitor does.
3) A) Why doesn't the tank have hate to take an automatons spell? Chances are melee would take more hate with the WS. B) Melee's fault for not acknowledging it wasn't the best time for a WS. Can have same argument with a RNG and barrage.
4) Yeah it is kinda gay ... but that was the first pet that moved for /emotes so you have to cut some slack there.
5) And when PUP gets Hundred Fist come back and talk to me.
(EDIT: sorry ... Howling Fist isn't it ... sorry sometimes it is hard when people talk in letters and not words... anywho 5) PUP WS + Automaton WS ... part of the PUP's damage is his puppet.)