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Makes no sense
 Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-25 12:43:49
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Bouncingflea said: Phoenix.Excelior said: So you're against entitlement programs?
Yes. The only thing you are entitled to are the three rights stated in the Declaration of Independence; Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Though I don't really consider myself a christian, there is a passage that seems pretty pertinent to this: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground..."
you need shelter to live, so therefore houses are entitled, you need food to live, liberty, so you're not locked up unless you commit crimes, if your pursuit of happiness is done on your couch, who's to say otherwise?
To be honest the way of the world where people work for a living is going to die out, there's no reason for it in the age of technology we live in.it's so easy to make broad basesless statements isn't it?
George Jetson had to sell sprockets for Pete's sake.
Earning your keep isn't gonna go away in society.
Just ain't gonna happen.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-10-25 12:44:28
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Bismarck.Tuvae said: Im currently unemployed atm. Lost my last job, i live with my gf who works part time. We live in a small flat(or appartment) together. Ive been pretty much working since i turned 16 (now 23) I even paid tax when i was at college (Which you arent meant to do here, you live tax free while in education). Now when i lost my job i thought id be able to get benefits cuz ive worked so much, so went to the unemployment place did all the paper work, blah blah. Few weeks later i hear from them. I was denied benefits because I "didnt contribute enough tax" so wasnt entitled... So we have rent, bills national insurance etc to pay... on my gf being employed full time. Apparently thats enough to get by... Despite the fact we have to get 200+ pounds from her mother every month to help cover ***we gotta pay. Now, being denied benefits for a BS reason such as not contributing enough, despite working my *** off for the past 7 years, is really shitty. However, whats worse? I have a friend who has a job (paid under the table) and signs on for unemployment. they asked him "so, what was your previous job?" He said "oh just some bar work, you know"... The guy said this... "oh, never mind then, we will just accept you, you're money will be in your bank on friday and every two fridays after that"... Not only that, he went to a council building and asked them for help paying his rent... They accepted him. He now pays no rent, gets unemployment benefits and has a job. Then theres my brother. Unemployed, living at home with my mother having to pay no rent, no bills, has everything bought for him. Gues what? He got accepted. He gets money put into his account every two weeks also. where im left sitting here, unable to get a *** job in this shitty day and age with all thes bills and rent and other stuff to pay. With no help other than from my GFs mother who is taking the money from her pension, to help us. This. Life. Is. ***. Sorry for the rant, but really needed to get that ***out. It sickens me how so many people get help they dont deserve, when theres people like me who really need it, get boned by the government... /sigh.
Don't you just *** love the UK benefits system >_>;
It's a joke, seriously. They are currently toying with the idea of making people with no job pick up litter for like 7 hours five days a week for standard dole payment (which is less than minimum wage).
How will anyone find a job with such little time to do it, *** conservative.
 Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-10-25 12:54:37
OP stfu.
Car and phone are neccessary. Specially one for husband one for wife.
All that take the bus *** or train is douche baggery, no buses/trains everywhere. If I had to take a bus right now I'd have to walk more than an hour to get there.
Lot's of people work their *** off, and yet recieve half of what they should. Some are ill and could use the help from the GOV, i *** hate rich people who think the poor have it easy and shouldn't get help, stop being so *** selfish, maybe the day you don't have food on your fridge and no money you will understand.
the gov's help is badly distributed, people who don't need it get it and people who actually do get ***. They count your salary for sure and nothing else, if you make enough for food they don't give you food stamps, but they don't count your personal expenses which are neccessary if you think a phone and car aren't at this day and age you seriously need to get your *** head on earth. Hai2u.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-25 12:55:48
Food stamps should only be for those who cannot afford to buy food. Should be simple enough right? If your monthly costs exceed your monthly income then assistance should be provided based on those figures. However there has to be a cut off line at income despite your expenses. (IE: spending $20,000 a month, while only making $15,000 a month)
As for the OPs question about people who abuse the system. It's one of those loopholes that's hard to track down. Getting paid under the table so technically you have no income to report. Perhaps there is a way to track down something like this. If for instance you're reporting no income, yet somehow manage to pay you bills, maybe and investigation needs to go underway.
But then with all the budget cuts, and government employees being laid off left and right along with furloughs, they don't have the man power to keep people honestly.
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24692
By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2010-10-25 12:57:37
"What do you mean I don't qualify for food stamps?!"
"Oh I see, because I'm an educated black male making $50K/year!"
FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-10-25 13:01:18
Meh the day of judgement is coming and these dishonest scrounging leechers will be left on the ground when my floating city is complete. From there I will begin a new empire government of superior beings in which I will be dictator leader to all and we will create a haven in the clouds where there will be no crime or dishonesty and life will be good!
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-10-25 13:02:10
people do get investigated it's just hard to track down everyone. if someone is making 150K a month and spends 200k it's time they drop their BMW and luxuries. Those are the kind of people who really shouldn't get gov help, ***, you make enough money for food and a humble home. If you can't afford luxury, don't buy it.
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-10-25 13:02:14
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said: "What do you mean I don't qualify for food stamps?!" "Oh I see, because I'm an educated black male making $50K/year!" FFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!
I thought you told us you live with your mother.
 Bahamut.Jetackuu
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-10-25 13:05:35
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Bouncingflea said: Phoenix.Excelior said: So you're against entitlement programs?
Yes. The only thing you are entitled to are the three rights stated in the Declaration of Independence; Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Though I don't really consider myself a christian, there is a passage that seems pretty pertinent to this: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground..."
you need shelter to live, so therefore houses are entitled, you need food to live, liberty, so you're not locked up unless you commit crimes, if your pursuit of happiness is done on your couch, who's to say otherwise?
To be honest the way of the world where people work for a living is going to die out, there's no reason for it in the age of technology we live in.it's so easy to make broad basesless statements isn't it?
George Jetson had to sell sprockets for Pete's sake.
Earning your keep isn't gonna go away in society.
Just ain't gonna happen.
Yes because a fictional character created in the prime age of working for a living, male dominated american society is a good representation of how it is, take a minute and look at how the socialist programs are designed, taken to their full extent nobody would have to work, of course there's flaws to the plan and they need weeded out, but all in due time sir, all in due time.
I just don't see the point in limiting change to machinery and putting people out of work due to technology, if the jobs aren't needed, don't hire people.
Cerberus.Nutt
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 264
By Cerberus.Nutt 2010-10-25 13:09:28
Caitsith.Mahayaya said: So, my friend has worked for a bank for a while, so he has seen a lot of ***. He tells me all the time about how people have gotten unemployment checks for years, as if it was another check to receive monthly. He's from a small town, so he knows some of these people. He knows that they take on odd-jobs that pay them under-the-table, as a way to get both unemployment and money for working. He knows that they also try to stay in a range so that they can still apply for foodstamps, which they then buy food just to sell for more cash. So, this just pisses me off. I'm the type of person who likes to fuel my own anger to a subject, so I went browsing around the internet for stories of people doing ***like this. The first place I check has this site. Read the very first comment afterwards: yes i have a house and we pay 1600 for mortgage , and the others bills and they dont want to give us food stamp , by husband work in a temp job now because he lost his previous job , i have an illness and im taking ssi and i went to apply for f, stamps and they denied it , because we make a lot of money , but thet dont count , the water , the sewer, the phone , the cable the heat our personal expenses the insurance for both cars , groceries ect , i think they have to, change the way gov, its working , because we realy need a lilltehelp .. I can only pray that this person is joking.. You can't have the internet, cable, phone, and TWO cars be factored into it as if they were all neccessary items for living. Of course they denied your damn food stamps! What is wrong with these people? Do they feel like they should be entitled the world for doing nothing?
Don't hate the players, hate the game. It's been like this for YEARS.
Nothing like the Apartment Complex watchperson alerting everyone that Housing is checking to see if any "men" are living on the premises.
People on welfare, foodstamps, and housing live better than I do. I'm a single woman, no kids and I work for a popular Telecommunications Company.
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-10-25 13:13:07
At the end of the day it may be easier to avoid working and *** the benefits system in the *** but you will never be as well of as the people who make the effort.
The people that have to work hard at least have their dignity.
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-10-25 13:18:28
hold it right there
nothing wrong with getting help from the government, doesn't devolve your dignity. It's when people who have a chance to work for themselves with out help what pisses on me.
I have an aunt with 3 kids, she lives off the government and her couple of rich boyfriends. She lives better than my mother, and my mother has worked her *** all her life to she point she's ill now and in a couple years probably disabled.
My aunt has a big screen HD tv on her living room with more decorations than space, she's got more clothes than a boutique and on top of that 3 kids on her own (which by coincidence she sucks as a mother completely)
those situations are the ones that piss me off, not the ones where people really need the help.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-25 13:21:05
darki you must live by example and live off college funds and rich boyfriends!
Bahamut.Jetackuu
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-10-25 13:21:53
Ramuh.Sagittario said: At the end of the day it may be easier to avoid working and *** the benefits system in the *** but you will never be as well of as the people who make the effort.
The people that have to work hard at least have their dignity.
I don't believe people in soup kitchens still have dignity, just saying. Recession's a ***.
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-10-25 13:22:34
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Bouncingflea said: Phoenix.Excelior said: So you're against entitlement programs?
Yes. The only thing you are entitled to are the three rights stated in the Declaration of Independence; Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Though I don't really consider myself a christian, there is a passage that seems pretty pertinent to this: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground..."
you need shelter to live, so therefore houses are entitled, you need food to live, liberty, so you're not locked up unless you commit crimes, if your pursuit of happiness is done on your couch, who's to say otherwise?
To be honest the way of the world where people work for a living is going to die out, there's no reason for it in the age of technology we live in.it's so easy to make broad basesless statements isn't it?
George Jetson had to sell sprockets for Pete's sake.
Earning your keep isn't gonna go away in society.
Just ain't gonna happen.
Yes because a fictional character created in the prime age of working for a living, male dominated american society is a good representation of how it is, take a minute and look at how the socialist programs are designed, taken to their full extent nobody would have to work, of course there's flaws to the plan and they need weeded out, but all in due time sir, all in due time.
I just don't see the point in limiting change to machinery and putting people out of work due to technology, if the jobs aren't needed, don't hire people. you forgot the part about mass death and genocide to make up for the lack of funds to survive.
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-10-25 13:23:51
Ramuh.Vinvv said: darki you must live by example and live off college funds and rich boyfriends!
I thought I made clear I didn't live off college funds as I worked for myself, I only saved the college money =)
and no rl boyfriend sorry to dissapoint ya.
besides nice, making judgements of my life blindly. way to go vinvv
サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24692
By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2010-10-25 13:25:34
nothing makes sense anymore, not even kool-aid.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-10-25 13:25:43
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Bouncingflea said: Phoenix.Excelior said: So you're against entitlement programs?
Yes. The only thing you are entitled to are the three rights stated in the Declaration of Independence; Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. Though I don't really consider myself a christian, there is a passage that seems pretty pertinent to this: "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground..."
you need shelter to live, so therefore houses are entitled, you need food to live, liberty, so you're not locked up unless you commit crimes, if your pursuit of happiness is done on your couch, who's to say otherwise?
To be honest the way of the world where people work for a living is going to die out, there's no reason for it in the age of technology we live in.it's so easy to make broad basesless statements isn't it?
George Jetson had to sell sprockets for Pete's sake.
Earning your keep isn't gonna go away in society.
Just ain't gonna happen.
Yes because a fictional character created in the prime age of working for a living, male dominated american society is a good representation of how it is, take a minute and look at how the socialist programs are designed, taken to their full extent nobody would have to work, of course there's flaws to the plan and they need weeded out, but all in due time sir, all in due time.
I just don't see the point in limiting change to machinery and putting people out of work due to technology, if the jobs aren't needed, don't hire people. you forgot the part about mass death and genocide to make up for the lack of funds to survive. that's not what I meant and you know it, however hilarious.
We just need to advance on the systems already in place and we'll eventually get to the point I'm speaking of, standard housing, food, etc. I guess it would have to be implemented in a model first then moderate then full scale, but that at the moment, takes funds.
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-25 13:27:25
Phoenix.Darki said: people do get investigated it's just hard to track down everyone. if someone is making 150K a month and spends 200k it's time they drop their BMW and luxuries. Those are the kind of people who really shouldn't get gov help, ***, you make enough money for food and a humble home. If you can't afford luxury, don't buy it.
I fixed the numbers, I was thinking annually but put down the word month, lol!
Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-10-25 13:28:21
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said: nothing makes sense anymore, not even kool-aid. lol
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-10-25 13:29:48
Leviathan.Chaosx said: Phoenix.Darki said: people do get investigated it's just hard to track down everyone. if someone is making 150K a month and spends 200k it's time they drop their BMW and luxuries. Those are the kind of people who really shouldn't get gov help, ***, you make enough money for food and a humble home. If you can't afford luxury, don't buy it.
I fixed the numbers, I was thinking annually but put down the word month, lol!
ah well not sure over there
but anyone who makes 150k here can afford to live on luxury. low paying jobs here + low rent/living expenses.
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16303
By Ramuh.Sagittario 2010-10-25 13:30:12
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: At the end of the day it may be easier to avoid working and *** the benefits system in the *** but you will never be as well of as the people who make the effort. The people that have to work hard at least have their dignity. I don't believe people in soup kitchens still have dignity, just saying. Recession's a ***.
Lol, at least your grafting man an not lieing in bed expecting other people to do it for you.
Just last year I done a job for a housing association where I had to profile every one of there 2000 tenants via canvassing calls. These are all council houses so the majority of tenants were relatively poor and living off benefits from what I was told by the authorities, yet I was amazed how well some of them lived considering they lived of housing benefit and government allowances, literally half of them had huge plasma TVs an leather furniture an all sorts of high end ***even with kids running about everywhere.
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3351
By Fenrir.Terminus 2010-10-25 13:32:02
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: I would eat them out of the bag, and still do. Water and power is on now, but don't have a stove and trying to do it ghetto with the microwave is just too much work and always turns out like ***.
Basically, my uncle lets me live in his house while I go to college. Other than that (personal expenses, food, transportation, etc.), I'm on my own. Oh hey, 3 cars in the yard? How about a nice 8 mile bike ride to school!
The 2 months I was w/o lights/water I guess was his mid life crisis mode. He shut everything off and moved into his friend's house. His wife went to her mom's house, so was just me and the abandoned house.
Hey - if you have power, see about getting one of those little *** cheap 4 cup coffee machines - I think they're like $10 or something at Walmart. Throw the noodles in the pot, pour in some water sd of you were making coffe, and rock and roll. You can easily also eat out of the pot by taking off the lid, and the handle keeps your hand unburned. It's *** win if you're on the ramen diet.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-10-25 13:32:04
Ramuh.Sagittario said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Ramuh.Sagittario said: At the end of the day it may be easier to avoid working and *** the benefits system in the *** but you will never be as well of as the people who make the effort. The people that have to work hard at least have their dignity. I don't believe people in soup kitchens still have dignity, just saying. Recession's a ***.
Lol, at least your grafting man an not lieing in bed expecting other people to do it for you.
Just last year I done a job for a housing association where I had to profile every one of there 2000 tenants via canvassing calls. These are all council houses so the majority of tenants were relatively poor and living off benefits from what I was told by the authorities, yet I was amazed how well some of them lived considering they lived of housing benefit and government allowances, literally half of them had huge plasma TVs an leather furniture an all sorts of high end ***even with kids running about everywhere.
Just was saying that just because somebody worked for a living doesn't mean they have dignity, also yeah there's a lot of money in the drug market son.
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4118
By Ramuh.Thunderz 2010-10-25 13:32:28
Phoenix.Darki said: OP stfu.
Car and phone are neccessary. Specially one for husband one for wife.
All that take the bus *** or train is douche baggery, no buses/trains everywhere. If I had to take a bus right now I'd have to walk more than an hour to get there.
Lot's of people work their *** off, and yet recieve half of what they should. Some are ill and could use the help from the GOV, i *** hate rich people who think the poor have it easy and shouldn't get help, stop being so *** selfish, maybe the day you don't have food on your fridge and no money you will understand.
the gov's help is badly distributed, people who don't need it get it and people who actually do get ***. They count your salary for sure and nothing else, if you make enough for food they don't give you food stamps, but they don't count your personal expenses which are neccessary if you think a phone and car aren't at this day and age you seriously need to get your *** head on earth. Hai2u.
Sell your car and move closer to town. If you own a house, sell your house. If you have a problem paying for rent, move in social housing (wtv housing program the GVT supports)
Personal expenses don't count for a reason.
Bahamut.Dasva
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13835
By Bahamut.Dasva 2010-10-25 13:33:19
Silly people always thinking they deserve to just be handed ***on a silver platter while other people have to work for it.
Also I've walked over 2 hours to get to work everyday before so yeah gtfo and stop being lazy
 Bismarck.Tuvae
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 868
By Bismarck.Tuvae 2010-10-25 13:35:21
Phoenix.Darki said: hold it right there nothing wrong with getting help from the government, doesn't devolve your dignity.
Shits on my dignity, walkin onto the place and seeing the low life scum of the earth who are getting money when im not. Just being near them makes me feel utter ***about myself and the downwards spiral my life has taken. I was better off when i was 16 years old compared to what i am now. If only i put money away instead of *** spending it all... /sigh. Kids do stupid things with money they dont know how to handle.
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-10-25 13:36:05
Ramuh.Thunderz said: Phoenix.Darki said: OP stfu.
Car and phone are neccessary. Specially one for husband one for wife.
All that take the bus *** or train is douche baggery, no buses/trains everywhere. If I had to take a bus right now I'd have to walk more than an hour to get there.
Lot's of people work their *** off, and yet recieve half of what they should. Some are ill and could use the help from the GOV, i *** hate rich people who think the poor have it easy and shouldn't get help, stop being so *** selfish, maybe the day you don't have food on your fridge and no money you will understand.
the gov's help is badly distributed, people who don't need it get it and people who actually do get ***. They count your salary for sure and nothing else, if you make enough for food they don't give you food stamps, but they don't count your personal expenses which are neccessary if you think a phone and car aren't at this day and age you seriously need to get your *** head on earth. Hai2u.
Sell your car and move closer to town. If you own a house, sell your house. If you have a problem paying for rent, move in social housing (wtv housing program the GVT supports)
Personal expenses don't count for a reason.
in pr no such a thing as buses/trains, theres only one train and its nearby an university and doesn't go that far, the buses are on the city area which by chance have the highest rent/living expenses and aren't good relying on. considering they start at 9am and close at 11pm yeahhh i can see how you can rely on them and also *** slow *** buses, thanks to them i spent one whole semester getting late to class. things are different here.
no need to loose your hard worked house just because you are having a harsh time in your life, if the help exists why not? it gives you a push so when you are better economicaly. Have you even ever owned a house? how much you loose by actually selling it is beyond me.
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-10-25 13:37:09
Bahamut.Dasva said: Silly people always thinking they deserve to just be handed ***on a silver platter while other people have to work for it.
Also I've walked over 2 hours to get to work everyday before so yeah gtfo and stop being lazy i think they work their *** off and still don't get enough.
hate the *** people who haven't been in this situation, yeah because anyone with a disability can walk 2 hours for work. ha ha ha.
get real folks.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9001
By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2010-10-25 13:38:17
Bahamut.Dasva said: Silly people always thinking they deserve to just be handed ***on a silver platter while other people have to work for it.
Also I've walked over 2 hours to get to work everyday before so yeah gtfo and stop being lazy
actually a platinum platter.
So, my friend has worked for a bank for a while, so he has seen a lot of shit. He tells me all the time about how people have gotten unemployment checks for years, as if it was another check to receive monthly. He's from a small town, so he knows some of these people. He knows that they take on odd-jobs that pay them under-the-table, as a way to get both unemployment and money for working. He knows that they also try to stay in a range so that they can still apply for foodstamps, which they then buy food just to sell for more cash.
So, this just pisses me off. I'm the type of person who likes to fuel my own anger to a subject, so I went browsing around the internet for stories of people doing shit like this.
The first place I check has this site. Read the very first comment afterwards:
yes i have a house and we pay 1600 for mortgage , and the others bills and they dont want to give us food stamp , by husband work in a temp job now because he lost his previous job , i have an illness and im taking ssi and i went to apply for f, stamps and they denied it , because we make a lot of money , but thet dont count , the water , the sewer, the phone , the cable the heat our personal expenses the insurance for both cars , groceries ect , i think they have to, change the way gov, its working , because we realy need a lilltehelp ..
I can only pray that this person is joking.. You can't have the internet, cable, phone, and TWO cars be factored into it as if they were all neccessary items for living. Of course they denied your damn food stamps! What is wrong with these people? Do they feel like they should be entitled the world for doing nothing?
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