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Love
 Bismarck.Tuvae
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 868
By Bismarck.Tuvae 2010-09-22 14:55:23
Phoenix.Darki said: Bismarck.Tuvae said: Phoenix.Darki said: ugh what do you need to prove love? You love your parents unconditionaly, or family whatever. says who? Ive never said it to anyone but one person. Theres different kinds of love lol not just the one that involves two lovers.
Even the thought of saying it to a family member seems really weird and wrong. Nothing ive ever done or ever will do.
 Bismarck.Tragedie
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 322
By Bismarck.Tragedie 2010-09-22 14:55:53
You can expect a similar answer from anyone who has eaten waffles...
Mmmm, waffles...
 Leviathan.Iphigenia
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Iphigenia 2010-09-22 14:56:00
Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Artemicion said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Even an easily trolled and pig-headed *** like me No argument here. Really? You have a real knack for making friends. Awww I'll be your fwiend Hey this is about love. You already are my friend. I am? Fine then I'll be your lover!
I called it! Biblical! Hey didn't we hit on each other in another thread recently?
Cerberus.Dracionx
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 70
By Cerberus.Dracionx 2010-09-22 14:56:21
http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Sapphire_Corps
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-22 14:56:25
Phoenix.Darki said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Phoenix.Darki said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Phoenix.Darki said: ugh what do you need to prove love? You love your parents unconditionaly, or family whatever. You clearly don't know me I don't care to either. Feeling is mutual. But then again who does want to get to know you lol not what you said on msn ;p Actually I kept telling you you needed to hold up your promises missy!
Leviathan.Iphigenia
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Iphigenia 2010-09-22 14:56:34
Phoenix.Darki said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Phoenix.Darki said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Phoenix.Darki said: ugh what do you need to prove love? You love your parents unconditionaly, or family whatever. You clearly don't know me I don't care to either. Feeling is mutual. But then again who does want to get to know you lol not what you said on msn ;p
Mine!
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-22 14:57:06
Bismarck.Tuvae said: Phoenix.Darki said: Bismarck.Tuvae said: Phoenix.Darki said: ugh what do you need to prove love? You love your parents unconditionaly, or family whatever. says who? Ive never said it to anyone but one person. Theres different kinds of love lol not just the one that involves two lovers.
Even the thought of saying it to a family member seems really weird and wrong. Nothing ive ever done or ever will do. i guess that also has to do with how you were raised.
Leviathan.Yokhai
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 839
By Leviathan.Yokhai 2010-09-22 14:57:07
Phoenix.Darki said: ugh what do you need to prove love?
You love your parents unconditionaly, or family whatever.
You dont, but its a fun thought exercise.
Asura.Bartimaeus said: Leviathan.Yokhai said: DONT START PEOPLE!!!!
The topic ITT is to attempt to prove or disprove love, all other subjects about love are irrelevant unless it pertains to proving or disproving its existence.
This is meant to be a thought exercise, nothing more.
imma train y'all up on sum logic here now.
I'm not even sure how I'd go about proving or disproving it. Perhaps I'm far too tired (have yet to sleep), but I'm interested in how everyone else might do this themselves..
tl;dr interested
Thanks bart, i probably won't be able to get into it till tomorrow. But its very interesting once you start to break down all the factors involved.
Please try not to get this locked.
Fenrir.Schutz
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-09-22 14:57:50
This one does seem simpler than proof/disproof of aliens, xenos, dieties, or ectoplasmic entities LOL.
Love is an emotion, and therefore a subjective experience that may or may not be universal in nature, but it is also a behaviour and the case that the behaviour can easily be documented and shown/replicated LOL.
So while love may or may not exist in creatures like amoeba, because it is difficult to perceive their activities, love and affection can be traced in higher animals like dogs or chimps.
Whether love exists as a Platonic universal "concept" (that of some entity or mass-concept that embodies love) that just gets back to the debate of whether such metaphysical entities exist at all, or are just shared phenomena.
 Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-22 14:58:25
Love is an abstract concept and cannot be perceived to be anything past human perspective.
Implying that animals love is incorrect, they may become attached...
But saying that they love you is just superimposing your thoughts and ideas onto them.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-22 14:58:47
Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Artemicion said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Even an easily trolled and pig-headed *** like me No argument here. Really? You have a real knack for making friends. Awww I'll be your fwiend Hey this is about love. You already are my friend. I am? Fine then I'll be your lover! I called it! Biblical! Hey didn't we hit on each other in another thread recently? Idk. I don't even remember your gender.
Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3987
By Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra 2010-09-22 14:58:56
Leviathan.Angelskiss said: Phoenix.Darki said: ugh what do you need to prove love?
You love your parents unconditionaly, or family whatever.
I believe the exercise is how do you prove or disprove love existing.
you SAY you love but what is it, and how do you measure it, or quantify it's actual existence.
Quantities of chemical reactions that are observable in the human brain under set conditions can prove that we do in fact have emotion.
Love is just a chemical reaction, no different than the one that occurs when you eat a piece of chocolate.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-22 14:59:29
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Love is an abstract concept and cannot be perceived to be anything past human perspective. This
Leviathan.Iphigenia
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Iphigenia 2010-09-22 15:02:02
Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Artemicion said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Even an easily trolled and pig-headed *** like me No argument here. Really? You have a real knack for making friends. Awww I'll be your fwiend Hey this is about love. You already are my friend. I am? Fine then I'll be your lover! I called it! Biblical! Hey didn't we hit on each other in another thread recently? Idk. I don't even remember your gender.
Does it really matter? Take love where you can get it, I always say.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-22 15:03:40
Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Ramuh.Dasva said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Artemicion said: Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Even an easily trolled and pig-headed *** like me No argument here. Really? You have a real knack for making friends. Awww I'll be your fwiend Hey this is about love. You already are my friend. I am? Fine then I'll be your lover! I called it! Biblical! Hey didn't we hit on each other in another thread recently? Idk. I don't even remember your gender. Does it really matter? Take love where you can get it, I always say. Good point. But I like boobs... though I suppose either gender can have those sorta lol. All right then it's official. We are bf and whatever you are
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-22 15:03:48
Leviathan.Iphigenia said: Does it really matter? Take love where you can get it, I always say. I agree with that.
Fenrir.Schutz
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-09-22 15:04:33
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Love is an abstract concept and cannot be perceived to be anything past human perspective. Implying that animals love is incorrect, they may become attached... But saying that they love you is just superimposing your thoughts and ideas onto them.
It's just use of a common definition. If what I am talking about as "love" is a physiological/psychobiological chemical proccess occuring in the brain, then it is identical to what you are talking about. The process could be identical but just a difference in nomenclature is used.
 Leviathan.Chaosx
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 20284
By Leviathan.Chaosx 2010-09-22 15:04:54
Dammit I have bad luck. Once again I'm gone when all the ***hits the fan, and come back to a discussion about... love?!
Love is gay.
Leviathan.Yokhai
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 839
By Leviathan.Yokhai 2010-09-22 15:05:14
Love the one you're with....
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1028
By Siren.Demetreos 2010-09-22 15:05:47
"Love is a device invented by bank managers to make us overdrawn." - A J Rimmer.
Fenrir.Schutz
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-09-22 15:06:03
Leviathan.Yokhai said: Love the one you're with....
Love stinks? :p
Love hurts? :p
Love is a battlefield? :p
Ramuh.Vinvv
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15542
By Ramuh.Vinvv 2010-09-22 15:07:07
Fenrir.Schutz said: Ramuh.Vinvv said: Love is an abstract concept and cannot be perceived to be anything past human perspective. Implying that animals love is incorrect, they may become attached... But saying that they love you is just superimposing your thoughts and ideas onto them.
It's just use of a common definition. If what I am talking about as "love" is a physiological/psychobiological chemical proccess occuring in the brain, then it is identical to what you are talking about. The process could be identical but just a difference in nomenclature is used. Well, honestly I don't have to restrict it to love.
Love isn't a hard concept, you can't quantify it, it literally is an idea...a concept if you will.
Hate and all the others fit too.
Anything that makes Sapient beings Sapient pretty much.
Ramuh.Dasva
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-09-22 15:08:34
Siren.Demetreos said: "Love is a device invented by bank managers to make us overdrawn." - A J Rimmer. Lol. Though I think maxxed out credit cards would be more accurate
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1028
By Siren.Demetreos 2010-09-22 15:10:11
Ramuh.Dasva said: Siren.Demetreos said: "Love is a device invented by bank managers to make us overdrawn." - A J Rimmer. Lol. Though I think maxxed out credit cards would be more accurate That too.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15064
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2010-09-22 15:10:34
Phoenix.Darki said: ugh what do you need to prove love?
You love your parents unconditionaly, or family whatever.
Not everyone, lol
Phoenix.Darki
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9949
By Phoenix.Darki 2010-09-22 15:13:57
"Life is pain and the enjoyment of love is an anesthetic."-Cesare Pavese
Fenrir.Schutz
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3122
By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-09-22 15:14:56
Ramuh.Vinvv said: Well, honestly I don't have to restrict it to love. Love isn't a hard concept, you can't quantify it, it literally is an idea...a concept if you will. Hate and all the others fit too. Anything that makes Sapient beings Sapient pretty much.
Yes, but as perceived behaviours they are easily documented. We attribute the existence of the behaviour to the presence of whatever biochemicals needed to bring about the behaviour. We certainly don't say the chased gazelle is "exhibiting increased levels of norepinephrine stimulated by the perceived presence due to the female lion in proximity"...we state that it is bolting because it fears being eaten, due to fight-or-flight.
Whether it is a concept or verbal shorthand, we can conclude that the emotion of "fear", whether it is a loaded word like "love", is present for that animal. Insofar as any scientific observation is just that--an observation--we can observe reactions and behaviours.
Bismarck.Tuvae
サーバ: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 868
By Bismarck.Tuvae 2010-09-22 15:15:56
Phoenix.Darki said: Bismarck.Tuvae said: Phoenix.Darki said: Bismarck.Tuvae said: Phoenix.Darki said: ugh what do you need to prove love? You love your parents unconditionaly, or family whatever. says who? Ive never said it to anyone but one person. Theres different kinds of love lol not just the one that involves two lovers. Even the thought of saying it to a family member seems really weird and wrong. Nothing ive ever done or ever will do. i guess that also has to do with how you were raised.
Or not in this case =/
Leviathan.Iphigenia
サーバ: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 145
By Leviathan.Iphigenia 2010-09-22 15:16:22
Love exists because we are self-aware and social creatures. Our bodies and brains create and crave this human currency.
Love is required for each of us to function as individuals and for society to function as a whole.
Love, whether romantic or fraternal; physical or emotional; chemical or philosophical - is the one thing that ties all human beings together. We share this one notion, this one experience together. It permeates all that we are and do.
A wise man once told me that trust is something that must be earned, but love should be given freely.
My two cents.
Leviathan.Angelskiss said: So can you prove or disprove love?
We accept love without it being quantified.
This was snuck into the psychics thread before it was locked.
When i get the time, i'd like to talk about this one. It's a very very interesting topic.
Short answer is love exists but not as a single entity that most people assume.
As a concept or idea, the adage goes, if you can think it, it exists. But as an emotion or force, well that gets a bit trickier to pin down.
I will say though, this one is fun, that we have shown fear to be more substantial in affecting people than love. It ain't number one any more.
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