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The Walk of Echoes Beckons!
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2084
By Gilgamesh.Samuraiking 2010-06-15 06:17:28
Unicorn.Aleste said: As one of those whm/nin's who campaigns a fair bit, I'd like to throw my opinion into the matter.
Out of all the time I've played in campaign /nin seems to net me most exp/notes (over time). Don't get me wrong, I used to /sch and stay backline hasting and curing people, but with the advent of the NPC healers and poor XP/note reward for doing so I stopped staying back out of range.
To me (at least) whinja offers me the ability to hit multiple categories at once and when paired with mystic boon (returning anywhere from 250-400mp) there is literally no downtime in campaign. I find that I'm capable of soloing a number of different mob types using a mixture of Afflictus Solace and Utsusemi, and throwing out flash every time its up gives a considerable XP/Note reward. While doing so, I will normally throw out the odd cure5, or haste to whoever is tanking (if I'm not) as they're effectively helping me by holding a mobs attention while I beat on it.
That said, raise (at 150mp) is nearly a quarter of my mp pool, and it is MP that I'll just end up having to rest back later while everyone else is in combat earning points. The downtime isn't justified after the second (or third) time some HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE player runs back into AOE range while weakened then QQ's /tells asking for yet another raise.
I would happily return to the back line in campaign V2 as long as they fix it to the point where playing my ACTUAL job gives me a better reward that being a pseudo DD.
*edit* damn you tab button clicking submit
Misunderstanding me just a bit, not ***talking whm/nin. I'm saying when everyone is dead but the whm and 2 other ppl, with 20+ laying on the ground, I expect the courtesy of them to start raising.
If someone happens to be running into a boss that spams 500+ dmg aoes, weakened, after u just raised them, then *** them. In general, theres about 5-6 ppl or alot more per mob, meaning the whm prolly isn't tanking, and with mystic boon there's not really any excuse to not toss a raise to a person dead RIGHT beside you.
Everyone wants exp, doing dmg+heal+raise+buff+debuff gets the max so I don't expect you to /sch and healbot, but when you have mystic boon and you're not tanking, there's not an excuse for just being a *** and sitting there. Most of the ones on our server doing this are full mp, in mana gear instead of haste/DD gear, refusing to raise and they're also fr.
Anyway, gonna go to sleep.
 Unicorn.Aleste
サーバ: Unicorn
Game: FFXI
Posts: 34
By Unicorn.Aleste 2010-06-15 06:24:30
My apologies then. I've been in the same situation (on dark) lying dead for a while and it does piss me off that no-one tosses a raise. It got to the point when I started subbing /sch on dark knight just for reraise LOL.
I've noticed a large quantity of people are out for individual gain in campaign and I hope for the love of god they fix it so that we'll start to see some proper teamwork and people playing their jobs the way they're meant to be played to benefit in whatever Walk of Echoes brings.
The last thing anyone wants is everyone and their mother with a kclub causing the mob to TP rage. Either way, unless this has something good or entertaining to do in it I doubt the vast majority will leave their comfort campaign zones...
(That said, I've noticed a fair few paladins in campaign who downright refuse to tank mobs.. wtf is with that?)
Gilgamesh.Shayala
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1004
By Gilgamesh.Shayala 2010-06-15 06:24:44
I've noticed that i'm more likely to get a raise/cure in campaign from a RDM or some other job that is subbing WHM or even a PLD than an actual WHM main on Gilgamesh.
I do admire decent WHM's, I took that class to lvl 52 (only duoing) and it was hard work, i'm not sure I could be WHM in a party situation as the concentration required is immense.
Gilgamesh.Shayala
サーバ: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1004
By Gilgamesh.Shayala 2010-06-15 06:28:14
Unicorn.Aleste said: (That said, I've noticed a fair few paladins in campaign who downright refuse to tank mobs.. wtf is with that?)
My fiance started campaiging as a PLD/WAR as that is what he has always done in our duoing (mainly to enable him to keep hate off my MNK). People kept sending him /tell saying things like <PLD/WAR.. WTF?>, so I convinced him to sub DNC. He still tanks as he always did and gets really annoyed if he loses hate. lol
 Titan.Gennss
サーバ: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Titan.Gennss 2010-06-15 06:53:27
Still don't like the fact that no one will toss you a pity cure no matter how much of the fight you end up tanking.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2202
By Asura.Karbuncle 2010-06-15 07:21:59
I'm going to have to agree with Pchan on this one, except for the whole emo-quitting thing that we all know won't happen.
This system sounds like a Campaign type free-for-all lot fest where multiple people who's IQ Average in the low teens will ruin any successful attempt by being either cripplingly gimp or TP spamming the mobs with their AWESOME KRAKEN CLUBS.
As a person without a linkshell half of me is hoping this event is kinda a free-to-do thing i can join when i want, but the other half of me knows that if thats the case, every idiot and their grandma is going to be in there, and theres no way i'm winning a lot against 80 other people freelotting anything that drops rather they can use it or not.
I'm torn :\, I want this to be a free-to-do event but at the same time i hate the idea of a few idiots mooching off the zone or MPKing everyone because you can't communicate or they go JPONRY /away and do w/e the fk they want.
Language barrier will definitely come into play on this as well :\ especially during the later hours of JP Prime time, i'm usually awake during... Since the server merge Asura has become so JPONRY between ~10PM~10AM thats you can't get anything done if you're NA x.x;
I'll hope for the best but expect the worst.
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サーバ: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 134
By Ifrit.Itazura 2010-06-15 07:25:46
Titan.Gennss said: Still don't like the fact that no one will toss you a pity cure no matter how much of the fight you end up tanking. Why would other people outside of your party be watching your HP?
If curing other people gives me better exp/AN than taking hits then curing myself, I'd be more interested in other people's HP. As it is, Campaign Battle is designed to train RDMs into ignoring others and try to get the mobs attention on themselves as much as possible.
Don't like it? Ask SE to change the CB's design. *shrug*
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-15 07:34:22
The only time I find campaign fun, is with a dagger set on brd.
Caitsith.Mahayaya
サーバ: Caitsith
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3341
By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2010-06-15 07:38:21
If campaign items apply to Walk of Echos zones(similar to how Assault gears give bonuses to Salvage events), then we should see a pretty big rise in some of those prices. ie. those refresh feet, +8% HP/MP feet, etc.
Even if they aren't usable in Walk of Echos, I'd recommend buying what you want now, and can sell back if they aren't usable.
 Lakshmi.Holman
サーバ: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 240
By Lakshmi.Holman 2010-06-15 07:48:51
Well it beats idling in Art for hours.
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 704
By Sylph.Lotusbluete 2010-06-15 07:56:01
Gilgamesh.Samuraiking said: So, does this mean all the people rushing their wotg missions to end so they could access this wasted their time?(barring the end rewards when their done) Or is this just one of the new things being added requiring wotg missions, and more things later will require higher missions to be done?
I stopped at 17 cause the story lines were ***, i'd rather not finish them tbh....
Well, I’m done with Bastok & Sandy and on the last two Nation Quests for Windy. I finished all current WOTG missions too and I didnt do it for any endgame *** ppl thought SE would release after the update, but because I actually enjoyed it.
What was it you didnt like about the storyline?
Titan.Gennss
サーバ: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Titan.Gennss 2010-06-15 08:02:12
I think this is a brilliant idea. A diff style endgame event. You have large long events in old style endgame, have short timed instanced events in tau, and now ad-hoc groups.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-15 08:06:43
It really depends on how it's handled, it'll be fine as long as the drops aren't really stingy, but I don't like the thought of doing tons of work to fund other people's equipment.
You know there'll be one person who's overly lucky all the F'in time.
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Titan.Gennss
サーバ: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Titan.Gennss 2010-06-15 08:07:54
Shiva.Flionheart said: It really depends on how it's handled, it'll be fine as long as the drops aren't really stingy, but I don't like the thought of doing tons of work to fund other people's equipment.
You know there'll be one person who's overly lucky all the F'in time.
Ummm, most endgame already feels like that.
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By Fenrir.Luarania 2010-06-15 08:22:54
Can't make heads or tails of it... and pretty much everything I been thinking has been said already.
I guess we can only hope SE doesn't screw it up to much and at least do something like give us RR when we join or upped drop rates (30-40% would be nice...) At least you don't have to be to far into the WotG storyline to do it.
Also in regards to the Emp weapons, I wonder if the ones we saw dat mined (Gold Hofud or w/e) drop from this if you are rewarded high enough, and then possibly evolved into Emp's via trials? Geez the possiblities...
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-15 08:24:16
Titan.Gennss said: Shiva.Flionheart said: It really depends on how it's handled, it'll be fine as long as the drops aren't really stingy, but I don't like the thought of doing tons of work to fund other people's equipment.
You know there'll be one person who's overly lucky all the F'in time.
Ummm, most endgame already feels like that.
In what way? Normally there's a point system in a good end game shell, or some sot of lot system.
Titan.Gennss
サーバ: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Titan.Gennss 2010-06-15 08:24:45
Ifrit.Itazura said: Titan.Gennss said: Still don't like the fact that no one will toss you a pity cure no matter how much of the fight you end up tanking. Why would other people outside of your party be watching your HP?
If curing other people gives me better exp/AN than taking hits then curing myself, I'd be more interested in other people's HP. As it is, Campaign Battle is designed to train RDMs into ignoring others and try to get the mobs attention on themselves as much as possible.
Don't like it? Ask SE to change the CB's design. *shrug*
Easy, I beg in /say, usually takes a long time if any before I get cured. I think it varies with the crowd too. Some people are really great about it, i mean it doesn't hurt to toss a cure every so often right? I blink most of it so I'm good. Othertimes.. I can sit at 50 hp for 10 min before anyone responds.
Biggest issues come from pld's and rdms. Apparently they burn their cure macro's as soon as they leave pt's. or they have it set to <me>.
Of course my personal experiences don't necessarily reflect everyone else's
edit:
If someone else is tanking doesn't that mean they need more hp cured meaning more xp than curing yourself?
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-15 08:26:02
It's not anyone's job to heal you if they're not in your party/alliance.
If you're sitting at 50hp at 10 minutes why aren't you resting?
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Valefor.Eldrich
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22
By Valefor.Eldrich 2010-06-15 08:27:37
Titan.Gennss said: Ifrit.Itazura said: Titan.Gennss said: Still don't like the fact that no one will toss you a pity cure no matter how much of the fight you end up tanking. Why would other people outside of your party be watching your HP?
If curing other people gives me better exp/AN than taking hits then curing myself, I'd be more interested in other people's HP. As it is, Campaign Battle is designed to train RDMs into ignoring others and try to get the mobs attention on themselves as much as possible.
Don't like it? Ask SE to change the CB's design. *shrug*
Speaking as a WHM who campaigns, even if you ask for a cure it can be hard to find you among the other players, NPCs, and monsters on the screen.
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10387
By Siren.Enternius 2010-06-15 08:27:59
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Valefor.Eldrich
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22
By Valefor.Eldrich 2010-06-15 08:29:34
I'm usually more worried about staying alive. If I'm not in a fight, I'll help. If you're tanking the monster I'm fighting, I'll keep you alive. Otherwise, you're on your own.
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Titan.Gennss
サーバ: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Titan.Gennss 2010-06-15 08:30:33
Shiva.Flionheart said: It's not anyone's job to heal you if they're not in your party/alliance.
If you're sitting at 50hp at 10 minutes why aren't you resting?
Because emnity doesn't simply go away. Any other questions?
geez I wasn't trying to be a douche about it.
edit:
Doesn't this lack of helping others ruin the spirit and idea of campaign overall?
Valefor.Eldrich
サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 22
By Valefor.Eldrich 2010-06-15 08:36:53
Titan.Gennss said: Shiva.Flionheart said: It's not anyone's job to heal you if they're not in your party/alliance.
If you're sitting at 50hp at 10 minutes why aren't you resting?
Because emnity doesn't simply go away. Any other questions?
geez I wasn't trying to be a douche about it.
edit:
Doesn't this lack of helping others ruin the spirit and idea of campaign overall?
Absolutely. It seems in the northlands that the spirit of cooperation is still present, probably because if people don't cooperate everyone dies.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-15 08:37:43
Titan.Gennss said: Shiva.Flionheart said: It's not anyone's job to heal you if they're not in your party/alliance.
If you're sitting at 50hp at 10 minutes why aren't you resting?
Because emnity doesn't simply go away. Any other questions?
geez I wasn't trying to be a douche about it.
edit:
Doesn't this lack of helping others ruin the spirit and idea of campaign overall?
Bring potions, or buy them with notes if you don't want to stay at 50hp for ten minutes, get cheap regen drinks.
the list goes on. And no, not really, The NPC's make sure that you don't need to work together to get kills.
I've got more things to do than keep other people who refuse to help themselves alive. I'd prefer to heal NPC's.
サーバ: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6558
By Odin.Zicdeh 2010-06-15 08:41:22
/ma "Cure,II,III,IV,V,VI(?!)" <r>
/ma "Raise II,III" <r>
Typing commands in non-windower syntax. So easy, a caveman can do it.
Curing a PC grants the same Experience as curing an NPC, but the with the purebred dumbfuckery that comes with a life leveling 10 jobs through campaign only, I'm not surprised at people's reluctance.
Buffing doesn't, but you can cap buff exp really fast, especially with accession coming. I used to just follow the Dancers in Pashhow_S and spam buffs on them during Fort-only battles. Get around 600-1900 XP depending on how long (From 5-20minutes)
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サーバ: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14155
By Valefor.Slipispsycho 2010-06-15 08:44:01
Titan.Gennss said: Shiva.Flionheart said: It's not anyone's job to heal you if they're not in your party/alliance.
If you're sitting at 50hp at 10 minutes why aren't you resting?
Because emnity doesn't simply go away. Any other questions?
geez I wasn't trying to be a douche about it.
edit:
Doesn't this lack of helping others ruin the spirit and idea of campaign overall?
Not that I don't cure (If I go on RDM, It's because I don't feel like dying, so I go just to enfeeb mobs/cure people, and I'm never in a PT so I just tab til I find someone that needs a cure, and give it to them.) But..
1. Enmity goes away when the mob dies, rest after the mob is dead before going to a new one.
2. The lack of help argument is about as strong as wet toilet paper.
サーバ: Shiva
Game: FFXI
Posts: 23653
By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-06-15 08:45:24
I will heal people if I'm not busy, but I get pissy when people beg for cures when they shouldn't rely on other people in campaign.
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Titan.Gennss
サーバ: Titan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 45
By Titan.Gennss 2010-06-15 08:51:05
Valefor.Slipispsycho said: Titan.Gennss said: Shiva.Flionheart said: It's not anyone's job to heal you if they're not in your party/alliance.
If you're sitting at 50hp at 10 minutes why aren't you resting?
Because emnity doesn't simply go away. Any other questions?
geez I wasn't trying to be a douche about it.
edit:
Doesn't this lack of helping others ruin the spirit and idea of campaign overall?
Not that I don't cure (If I go on RDM, It's because I don't feel like dying, so I go just to enfeeb mobs/cure people, and I'm never in a PT so I just tab til I find someone that needs a cure, and give it to them.) But..
1. Enmity goes away when the mob dies, rest after the mob is dead before going to a new one.
2. The lack of help argument is about as strong as wet toilet paper.
Like i said, varies widely. There are times where I have great people in campaign, no npcs, everyone gets awesome xp and I never hit orange. Other times.. I have 20 ppl on my mob feeding tp like mad aaand I'm sitting on low hp b/c i forgot to /dnc or /sch. so utsu utsu utsu and pray.
Obviously it doesn't happen that often, I'm just surprised to see some level of douchebaggery.
And of course I rest between mobs. Seriously guys, get off the attack mode I was just explaining some of my negative experiences its obviously not always the case, actually wouldn't even say its the case 50% of the time, more like 30%...
Back on topic, the reason people are freaked about this being campaign-esq is these types of experiences. Personally I'd like it campaign-esq.
Sylph.Vestal
サーバ: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 221
By Sylph.Vestal 2010-06-15 08:53:48
Mother *** sub dancer *** *** *** *** dammit motherfuck
Just my feelings.
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サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-06-15 09:06:32
Sylph.Vestal said: Mother *** sub dancer *** *** *** *** dammit motherfuck
Just my feelings. ^
So very not happy with how this will likely play out.
The Walk of Echoes Beckons! (06/15/2010)The upcoming version update will see a section of the long-awaited Walk of Echoes area opened for access. There, adventurers will find thrilling new battlefields tailored to pose a challenge to seasoned veterans.
The Walk of Echoes
At the behest of a certain moogle of dubious origin and purpose, brave and trusting adventurers shall step forth into a realm forgotten by time. Upon arrival, they will encounter gateways to myriad battlefields wherein fearsome adversaries lie in wait. Conquer each battlefield in succession, and the opportunity to square off against mightier foes and reap richer rewards shall be granted to you.
The Rules of Engagement
To facilitate ease of access, the development team has omitted from the Walk of Echoes the need to lay claim to battlefields. Even if a battle has already been joined, it is possible for other adventurers to step in midway and lend their sword arms to the struggle, so long as the participant limit permits. Moreover, in the same vein as battles waged in Besieged and Campaign, enemies are not claimed when engaged by individual combatants. Battlefield participants are encouraged to use this freedom to their strategic advantage in the effort to dispatch the enemy hordes.
Copious Rewards
Materials used in the synthesis of all-new equipment level 76 and beyond form but a small part of the veritable treasure trove of items that awaits dauntless adventurers. Furthermore, ample opportunities to obtain a share of the spoils have been made available as follows:
- All battlefield participants may cast lots upon items dropped by monsters.
- Vanquishing all foes within the allotted time will produce a treasure chest, and only those participants whose contribution to the battle was deemed satisfactory will be granted the right to cast lots upon the contents.
- Highly evaluated combatants will be further rewarded with bounty befitting their standing.
*To enjoy the battle content offered in the Walk of Echoes, players must be level 70 or above and have progressed to the "Cait Sith" mission of the Wings of the Goddess expansion.
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