Dancer In Merit Parties |
||
Dancer in Merit Parties
For some reason I was thinking it came from the Prime fight which is why i as like "why dont more people use it" then I noticed its from Carby prime, lol.
Sylph.Kimble said: For some reason I was thinking it came from the Prime fight which is why i as like "why dont more people use it" then I noticed its from Carby prime, lol. Phoenix.Smileybone
Offline
Shouldn't the COR be contributing to the damage as well?
Phoenix.Smileybone said: Shouldn't the COR be contributing to the damage as well? Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra
Offline
While DNC is useful in merit parties, just by eyeballing the OP, the math looks totally wrong.
Phoenix.Smileybone
Offline
Shiva.Daimos said: Phoenix.Smileybone said: Shouldn't the COR be contributing to the damage as well? I know, I just don't like seeing CORs getting left out. :( Phoenix.Smileybone said: Shiva.Daimos said: Phoenix.Smileybone said: Shouldn't the COR be contributing to the damage as well? I know, I just don't like seeing CORs getting left out. :( Leviathan.Duvessa said: I pm'ed you what i use for my dancer's DE's... It's not great but it puts me in the 1100 club for my average WS on the parse charts. I refuse to heal in merit pt's as DNC, cuz I'd just play RDM if i wanted to do that. I do understand how it's useful, though. But damned if I'm not gonna use the hell out of my 5/5 saber dance merits, which render healing impossible lol. The way i look at it is... If your RDM or WHM/SCH can't heal on their own with BRD, COR, Sanction, and Refresh Gear... Then they should be replaced immediately. Thus freeing the DNC up to spam their yummy dagger WS's :D Too lazy to argue maffs, but a RDM or WHM/SCH can't mainheal if DD are like... hassoing and stuff. Pretty sure fulltime hasso > DE damage. And I dunno why you don't think curing is fun :< It's boring on a mage, kinda exciting on a DNC. @_@;; Edit: Cor should be /war or /dnc and meleeing/wsing and where applicable throwing out healing waltz. More Edits: Thornyy said: Copypaste from another thread: Your sample RDM has stone mufflers, stone gorget, poison tasters cape, morrigan's robe, duelist's chapeau. They composure stoneskin, haste, refresh, regen and idle in orochi nodowa. During most convert cycles(8 min 20 secs, full merits of course), regen will be down for 225 seconds and up for 275 seconds. In some cases, it'll be down at start/end and you'll lose a bit of hp, but can overlook this as it favors running out of mp not sustaining it. This amounts to 459 hp. Regen trait and orochi nodowa will get you an additional 334, for 793 total. Now, assuming your perfect RDM has a 1200 convert, you'll need to cure4 yourself once, for 88 mp. This makes the cost of a convert cycle 88 mp, keeping composure cycle seperate. Each composure will use up 40 mp for haste, 40 for refresh, 29 for stoneskin, and 15 for regen. This is 124 mp per 7.5 minutes, or 16.5 mp per minute used. 88 / 8 1/3 = 10.5 mp per minute used. Self-sustainment costs 27 mp per minute. Your DD will require 3 hastes, at 120 mp per 3 minutes. This amounts to 40 mp per minute. Total cost: 67 mp per minute. At 250 exp per kill, 40k/hr is 160 monsters, or a kill every 22.5 seconds. This amounts to 120 mp per minute in dia. Stoneskin -should- cover poison potions as well as reflected dias when recast every 7:30 with gorget/mufflers, though it'll be close. Total cost: 187 mp per minute. Convert will be 1200 mp every 8:20, which gives you 138 mp per minute. 12/tick with ballads and evokers is 240 mp per minute, grand total: 378 mp per minute regained and 187 spent on static spells. 191 mp per minute to spend on cures. Assuming each colibri gets 4 hits in, as they have a 6 second delay with elegy and no delay on first swing(~180 damage each) and every 6th colibri gets a pecking flurry(600), you're looking at 820 damage per colibri or 2186 damage per minute to heal with your remaining 191 mp. You can't even make half of that, so it's safe to say that your DD are going to need to seigan, even with all of this perfection. If you're going to mention resting, a dia every 22.5 seconds limits you to one click at a time if you do it immediately after dia(first click is 20 seconds) and requires that you don't have to cast any spells in between. Realistically, this will not amount to anything over time, and you'll also need to cast erase. Wivre and Mamool will do more damage. I don't give a *** how good your healer is, you're not keeping up with fulltime hasso while diaing every mob. Swapping to seigan costs you a weaponskill about every 20 seconds. Real DD will drastically outdamage DNC WS for WS, so you're just making an idiot out of yourself acting as if your damage is worth making someone seigan. Edit again: Also, BRDs really don't have time to throw out ballads, and CORs throwing out Evoker's rolls gimps their (personal) EXP, making DNC an ideal healer. Quetzalcoatl.Sectumsempra said: While DNC is useful in merit parties, just by eyeballing the OP, the math looks totally wrong. Which part? I'm pretty sure I got all of it right. Is it the 70 haste sam vs 80 haste sam? Here's the exact math for 70: 480 base delay of the weapon * 0.3 = 144 modified delay Attack speed = delay/60, thus 144/60 for 2.4 seconds per attack. For 80 haste (adding in haste samba) 480 base delay of the weapon * 0.2 = 96 modified delay Attack speed = delay/60, thus 96/60 = 1.6 seconds per attack. If they are averaging 175 damage per melee hit: 60 seconds / 2.4 secs per attack = 25 attacks a minute from 70% haste. 25 x 175 = 4,375 damage 60 seconds / 1.6 seconds per attack = 37.5 attacks a minute with 80% haste 37.5 x 175 = 6562.5 damage To find double attack damage we do this (i'll only do it for 80 haste): 37.5 attacks * .15 (chance to double attack, 15%) = 5.625 double attacks. Add that to your 37.5 attacks for 43.125 attacks. (Or you can do 37.5 * 1.15, and avoid the addition) 43.125 x 175 = 7546.875 damage That's a step by step breakdown of the math. To Niniann Whm/Sch has afflatus solace, which will essentially null a hit or two, as well. Stoneskin cures~ I've never had low MP breaking a chain when i was DD;ing on DNC. Of course there's times of low mp though, but they get by. Wait, COR and BRD shouldnt give out refresh in merit parties?
Phoenix.Smileybone
Offline
Sylph.Kimble said: Wait, COR and BRD shouldnt give out refresh in merit parties? I never have trouble keeping 4 songs (hastes and ballads) while pulling on BRD and still keeping chains, though.
Just gotta time your casts right between pulls. Well, I take that back. Sometimes I won't give a mage ballad 1 if they're above around 80% MP just to save myself some time, but if they're lower than that, they got it. @Duv:
Sure, but I still can't justify DNC not healing if the DDs are doing their jobs right, IE fullout-beating the mob to death. I'll make you party with me, and you'll see how injury-prone my DDs are. @Kimble: Smiley said what I meant. In a DNC party, DDs are killing mobs super-fastly, and having the BRD completely focused on pulling is beneficial. Also in a DNC-heal party there's really no reason to Evoker's roll a mage, so why gimp the poor COR's EXP. @Duv, again: You can keep chains fine, but it's still giving a 'wait for the brd to pull the mob' delay, unless you've only been in parties with shitty DDs, in which case there may not have been a delay. Phoenix.Smileybone said: Sylph.Kimble said: Wait, COR and BRD shouldnt give out refresh in merit parties? Shouldn't matter if there's a dnc in the party or not, cor and brd should still do their jobs. So, In your merits, the RDM is there just to haste and dia?
(not trying to sound like an ***, generally asking) Sylph.Kimble said: So, In your merits, the RDM is there just to haste and dia? And Erase, but pretty much. @Mold: I guess but it doesn't really make a difference. :s If it's a RDM they have convert, if it's a WHM I guess they probably should. Sounds like a lazy mage but that's just me.
Usually 2boxed mage... lol.
Sylph.Kimble said: Sounds like a lazy mage but that's just me. Sounds more like a bored healer than a lazy one, cant be lazy if there`s no healing to be done as long as you`re keeping haste up Should try meriting with a mage being played by 1 person alone.
Sylph.Kozuki said: asdf You're just jealous you can't curebot a fulltime-hasso Taru. She keeps my ebody war/sam full hasso/retaliation at birds alive np, leave her alone.
Sylph.Ashaaman said: She keeps my ebody war/sam full hasso/retaliation at birds alive np, leave her alone. I'm not making fun of her :< Edit: It was more of a "I HAVE A CRAZY/SUICIDAL TARU AND YOU DON'T"... etc. I've meritted with a real mage, just more times than not it's not. Leviathan.Niniann said: Leviathan.Duvessa said: I pm'ed you what i use for my dancer's DE's... It's not great but it puts me in the 1100 club for my average WS on the parse charts. I refuse to heal in merit pt's as DNC, cuz I'd just play RDM if i wanted to do that. I do understand how it's useful, though. But damned if I'm not gonna use the hell out of my 5/5 saber dance merits, which render healing impossible lol. The way i look at it is... If your RDM or WHM/SCH can't heal on their own with BRD, COR, Sanction, and Refresh Gear... Then they should be replaced immediately. Thus freeing the DNC up to spam their yummy dagger WS's :D Too lazy to argue maffs, but a RDM or WHM/SCH can't mainheal if DD are like... hassoing and stuff. Pretty sure fulltime hasso > DE damage. And I dunno why you don't think curing is fun :< It's boring on a mage, kinda exciting on a DNC. @_@;; Edit: Cor should be /war or /dnc and meleeing/wsing and where applicable throwing out healing waltz. Good WHM/SCH shouldn't need any assistance whatsoever. I sub DNC on COR occasionally, but really only in case the WHM somehow gets slept, which I've seen rarely, so most of the time it just goes to waste. And they should heal fine in a party fulltiming Hasso. I've had a RNG/WAR RNG/WAR (Ridill RNGs, so /SAM pointless) RNG/SAM COR/RNG BRD/NIN WHM/SCH party and we did fine on MP and cleared out top level Nyzul camp (yes, Mamool). Didn't stop to rest once, although it got a little bloodier when we changed to birds. Edit: er assistance healing, not no ballad/Evoker's Ragnarok.Flippant said: Good WHM/SCH shouldn't need any assistance whatsoever. I sub DNC on COR occasionally, but really only in case the WHM somehow gets slept, which I've seen rarely, so most of the time it just goes to waste. And they should heal fine in a party fulltiming Hasso. I've had a RNG/WAR RNG/WAR (Ridill RNGs, so /SAM pointless) RNG/SAM COR/RNG BRD/NIN WHM/SCH party and we did fine on MP and cleared out top level Nyzul camp (yes, Mamool). Didn't stop to rest once, although it got a little bloodier when we changed to birds. Leviathan.Thornyy said: Copypaste from another thread: Your sample RDM has stone mufflers, stone gorget, poison tasters cape, morrigan's robe, duelist's chapeau. They composure stoneskin, haste, refresh, regen and idle in orochi nodowa. During most convert cycles(8 min 20 secs, full merits of course), regen will be down for 225 seconds and up for 275 seconds. In some cases, it'll be down at start/end and you'll lose a bit of hp, but can overlook this as it favors running out of mp not sustaining it. This amounts to 459 hp. Regen trait and orochi nodowa will get you an additional 334, for 793 total. Now, assuming your perfect RDM has a 1200 convert, you'll need to cure4 yourself once, for 88 mp. This makes the cost of a convert cycle 88 mp, keeping composure cycle seperate. Each composure will use up 40 mp for haste, 40 for refresh, 29 for stoneskin, and 15 for regen. This is 124 mp per 7.5 minutes, or 16.5 mp per minute used. 88 / 8 1/3 = 10.5 mp per minute used. Self-sustainment costs 27 mp per minute. Your DD will require 3 hastes, at 120 mp per 3 minutes. This amounts to 40 mp per minute. Total cost: 67 mp per minute. At 250 exp per kill, 40k/hr is 160 monsters, or a kill every 22.5 seconds. This amounts to 120 mp per minute in dia. Stoneskin -should- cover poison potions as well as reflected dias when recast every 7:30 with gorget/mufflers, though it'll be close. Total cost: 187 mp per minute. Convert will be 1200 mp every 8:20, which gives you 138 mp per minute. 12/tick with ballads and evokers is 240 mp per minute, grand total: 378 mp per minute regained and 187 spent on static spells. 191 mp per minute to spend on cures. Assuming each colibri gets 4 hits in, as they have a 6 second delay with elegy and no delay on first swing(~180 damage each) and every 6th colibri gets a pecking flurry(600), you're looking at 820 damage per colibri or 2186 damage per minute to heal with your remaining 191 mp. You can't even make half of that, so it's safe to say that your DD are going to need to seigan, even with all of this perfection. If you're going to mention resting, a dia every 22.5 seconds limits you to one click at a time if you do it immediately after dia(first click is 20 seconds) and requires that you don't have to cast any spells in between. Realistically, this will not amount to anything over time, and you'll also need to cast erase. Wivre and Mamool will do more damage. I don't give a *** how good your healer is, you're not keeping up with fulltime hasso while diaing every mob. WHM/SCH's lower MP regeneration is compensated for via arts, stratagems, cureskin, and more cure potency gear, but you're still not able to solo heal without somebody putting up defensive JAs. EDIT: Woah, slowga. Ninian posted the same thing somewhere between me clicking the thread and posting that >_> Gogo EXP parties. Well I've never had a RDM keep up on MP...
Also, 40k/hour how D:? Most I've gotten at Nyzul camp is 32k/hour with 5/11 roll the whole time and we were pulling Wivre+colibri from other camp too. I have no idea how much RNG party was meriting, that was a year ago or something. Phoenix.Smileybone
Offline
Quote: Good WHM/SCH shouldn't need any assistance whatsoever. I sub DNC on COR occasionally, but really only in case the WHM somehow gets slept, which I've seen rarely, so most of the time it just goes to waste. Shouldn't a WHM/SCH be able to wake themselves up since sublimation will more then likely be up? Not that I really have a problem with COR/DNC or anything. |
||
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.
|