The Problem With Democracy..

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2010-06-21
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The problem with democracy..
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 Bahamut.Ashua
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By Bahamut.Ashua 2010-09-01 09:45:57  
Phoenix.Excelior said:
There's used to be tests required to vote but they were used to oppress black voters and were ruled unconstitutional. While it would be nice if everyone was informed and understanding of issues, it doesn't change the fact that everyone in this country is equal.

Really what people should require are that you can not vote without a highschool education(its free no excuse to not have). Graduatation from highschool should require a working knowledge of the Federal and state level government. While you may not know the ins and outs of politics if you don't even know what the person's your voting for job is its hard for you to make a decision.

If John McCain were black and obama was white, mccain would be our president.

Not that I would care much. That election was a lose/lose situation.
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 Fenrir.Terminus
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2010-09-01 09:47:17  
Lakshmi.Jaerik said:
We already have a test to determine if you know enough about the country's history and politics to vote. It's called the Citizenship Test. So clearly at some level, we already only want people with a minimum knowledge set to vote in our elections.

The real question is why citizens don't have to take it like everyone else.

I was renewing my car registration yesterday, and there was a flier on the far wall. I couldn't read the whole thing, but the headline or whatever was "CAN I VOTE?" I thought, "if you have to ask, then, no you can't."

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 Fenrir.Terminus
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By Fenrir.Terminus 2010-09-01 09:50:25  
Midgardsormr.Frobeus said:
The main problem is our society's growing acceptance of idiocy and laziness.

The downward spiral of our government and nation as a whole is more than enough proof of this.

In years past, the pressure from society (family, neighbors, friends, etc) to be a hard working and loyal citizen was enough of a force to direct many people down a more productive path. But in more recent times we seem to have had a massive shift where society instead preaches a message of "Receive as much as possible for as little work as possible".

As much as I have thought about this situation, I just can't come up with a solution. Unfortunately the only thing that I can think of that will have any affect is one or a series of massive tragedies that snatch away the comfortable life that we have all grown accustomed to, forcing people to once again earn their place.

The vast majority of this country's population are nothing more than sheep consumers who lack the ability to see anything past what they are presented on television by the political machines that are the republicans and democrats.

Yeah it's sad, for sure. But it makes me wonder, then, if all of those "good, responsible" actions were only the result of peer pressure, isn't the laziness a better representation of human nature?


 
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 Bahamut.Ashua
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By Bahamut.Ashua 2010-09-01 09:55:44  
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Bahamut.Ashua said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
There's used to be tests required to vote but they were used to oppress black voters and were ruled unconstitutional. While it would be nice if everyone was informed and understanding of issues, it doesn't change the fact that everyone in this country is equal.

Really what people should require are that you can not vote without a highschool education(its free no excuse to not have). Graduatation from highschool should require a working knowledge of the Federal and state level government. While you may not know the ins and outs of politics if you don't even know what the person's your voting for job is its hard for you to make a decision.

If John McCain were black and obama was white, mccain would be our president.

Not that I would care much. That election was a lose/lose situation.

Thats funny, I agree. There was no good candidate. I voted for John though because I don't agree with abortion. I think barrack hussain is a complete hypocrite as he claims to be a christian and yet he supports abortion as well as his entire staff. Christians aren't perfect, I certainly am not but when you go against the bible that you believe in, thats a problem. My opinion of course.


He is a Christian when campaigning. If you care to hear my personal opinion/interpretation of what 'religion' obama belongs to, Im going to say humanism. Yes humanism is a religion alright. Humanism, is a religion wherein mankind is become a unified singularity --- a collective God of generational immortality. It is true about his distortion of Christianity preached by his old pastor: They believe in collective salvation. As much as I hate echoing glenn beck because his celebrity "cockblocks" my observational credibility even though I already knew it before he spoke, it is true. It is social liberal humanism teachings.

If obama is that, he shouldnt be lying for the vote. man up and say what you really think. Stop whoring yourself for the vote.

I'm with you on the abortion issue. abortion is incompatible with Christianity and claiming a label for yourself while conducting and thinking like the definition of another label is pretty disgusting.
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 Leviathan.Hastefeet
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By Leviathan.Hastefeet 2010-09-01 09:56:01  
I say we become a dictatorship with Jaerik as our leader, he seems to have the qualities of a good leader and i think he would be good for this country
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 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-09-01 10:00:19  
If I be honest, I think Hitler had it right.
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 Bahamut.Ashua
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By Bahamut.Ashua 2010-09-01 10:03:10  
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Bahamut.Ashua said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Bahamut.Ashua said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
There's used to be tests required to vote but they were used to oppress black voters and were ruled unconstitutional. While it would be nice if everyone was informed and understanding of issues, it doesn't change the fact that everyone in this country is equal.

Really what people should require are that you can not vote without a highschool education(its free no excuse to not have). Graduatation from highschool should require a working knowledge of the Federal and state level government. While you may not know the ins and outs of politics if you don't even know what the person's your voting for job is its hard for you to make a decision.

If John McCain were black and obama was white, mccain would be our president.

Not that I would care much. That election was a lose/lose situation.

Thats funny, I agree. There was no good candidate. I voted for John though because I don't agree with abortion. I think barrack hussain is a complete hypocrite as he claims to be a christian and yet he supports abortion as well as his entire staff. Christians aren't perfect, I certainly am not but when you go against the bible that you believe in, thats a problem. My opinion of course.


He is a Christian when campaigning. If you care to hear my personal opinion/interpretation of what 'religion' obama belongs to, Im going to say humanism. Yes humanism is a religion alright. Humanism, is a religion wherein mankind is become a unified singularity --- a collective God of generational immortality. It is true about his distortion of Christianity preached by his old pastor: They believe in collective salvation. As much as I hate echoing glenn beck because his celebrity "claims" that observation even though I already knew it before him, it is true. It is social liberal humanism teachings.

If oabama is that, he shouldnt be lying for the vote. man up and say what you really think. Stop whoring yourself for the vote.

Interesting theory. You make for some good points. So many believe now that he is muslim and I often wonder but at the end of the day I really don't care what he is. What I care about is the image of Christianity that he portrays, like so many "Christians" which gives Christianity a bad rep and steer people away.
The Republicans better win the house in November or we might not have a country by the end of his 4 year term.

Yeah, as politically convenient as it would be to call him a muslim, that is an uninformed, dishonest conclusion. He doesnt think/behave consistently with Biblical Christianity nor does he conduct himself in accordance with koranic islam. If he did, he wouldnt have been stuffing his face in front of the cameras outside of that small food business during ramadan.
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By 2010-09-01 10:04:09
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 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-09-01 10:04:34  
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
If I be honest, I think Hitler had it right.

You are ignorant to say that. Would you like to be tortured because some dictator didn't like who you are?

I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand it.
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 Shiva.Borealis
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By Shiva.Borealis 2010-09-01 10:05:05  
Heil Hitler
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 Shiva.Flionheart
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By Shiva.Flionheart 2010-09-01 10:13:13  
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
If I be honest, I think Hitler had it right.

You are ignorant to say that. Would you like to be tortured because some dictator didn't like who you are?

I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand it.

Yea, lol, whatever. If a dictator was blowing your mom, sister, brother, whoever... heads off in front of you then you would understand that? Well then, with any luck, maybe our President can come and dictate in your country and see how you feel then. He hasn't done what Hitler did but he certainly is a marcist dictator. You can have him.

I'm happy with it. I've always been pro dictatorship.

Stupid people shouldn't be allowed to run our country, only the elite who have proven themselves should have that right.
 Bahamut.Ashua
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By Bahamut.Ashua 2010-09-01 10:20:23  
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Shiva.Flionheart said:
If I be honest, I think Hitler had it right.

You are ignorant to say that. Would you like to be tortured because some dictator didn't like who you are?

I wouldn't like it, but I'd understand it.

Yea, lol, whatever. If a dictator was blowing your mom, sister, brother, whoever... heads off in front of you then you would understand that? Well then, with any luck, maybe our President can come and dictate in your country and see how you feel then. He hasn't done what Hitler did but he certainly is a marcist dictator. You can have him.

I'm happy with it. I've always been pro dictatorship.

Stupid people shouldn't be allowed to run our country, only the elite who have proven themselves should have that right.

The only thing wrong with what you say is that you assume the elite have 'real merit' and possess both wisdom and righteousness.

There is none fit to rein among people who would not be rejected by the people; or halted before ever reaching a seat of authority by those who already are seated. People love corruption. People deserve to partake of the rewards of corruption.

Hitler would have been more justified if his goal was anthropocide, but his vision was diminished. Though his idea wasn't too far off,if his ideas were applied to mankind as a whole; he greatly erred in that he deceived himself into believing that Jews were inferior to the rest of humanity. Hitler was a failure. Absolute justice is the destruction of mankind. Because no one is willing that the entire species should perish, no one people has leverage over another. There is no room to boast over another kindred or creed to destruction. If you condemn one you condemn them all. Hitler was a fool.

It can be summarized in this:

Mankind possesses no redemptive qualities.
I am the antithesis of humanism.
 
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By 2010-09-01 10:43:49
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 Bahamut.Ashua
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By Bahamut.Ashua 2010-09-01 10:46:27  
I dont even know how frank and pelosi keep getting elected. Have you ever met anyone who actually likes them? who actually confessed to voting for them? especially pelosi? I smell Watergate. Nothing else adds up.
 Shiva.Xellith
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By Shiva.Xellith 2010-09-02 18:53:58  
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Bahamut.Ashua said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
There's used to be tests required to vote but they were used to oppress black voters and were ruled unconstitutional. While it would be nice if everyone was informed and understanding of issues, it doesn't change the fact that everyone in this country is equal.

Really what people should require are that you can not vote without a highschool education(its free no excuse to not have). Graduatation from highschool should require a working knowledge of the Federal and state level government. While you may not know the ins and outs of politics if you don't even know what the person's your voting for job is its hard for you to make a decision.

If John McCain were black and obama was white, mccain would be our president.

Not that I would care much. That election was a lose/lose situation.

Thats funny, I agree. There was no good candidate. I voted for John though because I don't agree with abortion. I think barrack hussain is a complete hypocrite as he claims to be a christian and yet he supports abortion as well as his entire staff. Christians aren't perfect, I certainly am not but when you go against the bible that you believe in, thats a problem. My opinion of course.

the bible also says that parents should stone their children if they are being disrespectful. the death penalty is used in a lot of states... THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

Treat others as you would have them treat you - an eye for an eye

----

The bible itself is just made up hippocritical ***. Dont even try and pretend that you can follow it without breaking some other rule in it that says something completely different.
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 Fenrir.Schutz
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By Fenrir.Schutz 2010-09-02 20:30:22  
As it were, there were tons of historic dissertations by many famous "framers of democratic thought", from Aristotle and Plato to Jefferson and Madison and onward, regarding government by the educated.

One such concept is Plato's and Pythagoras' notion of the "city of the educated" (noocracy) which could be the ultimate society...part of the path to Eudamonia. Of course, the Greek city-states were much smaller in scope than most modern nation-states, but the germ of the idea arose from such democratic society.

Thomas Jefferson had many thoughts on the education of citizenry, too many to note...

http://etext.virginia.edu/jefferson/quotations/jeff1350.htm

...but as a good idea of his view he put forth this thought (in regard to the OP):


Thomas.Jefferson said:
I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power.

Of course the nascent US society of the time was much smaller than it is today, let alone given that Jefferson was probably referring to "citizenry" as "white male landholders" in the first place.

But, given a modern more-egalitarian interpretation of his thoughts, it's safe to say he felt that if the population of eligible voters is too thick-headed to make proper civic choices in government and representation, that it is our job as a society to increase the level of education instead of remove the right from common citizens.
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 Phoenix.Excelior
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By Phoenix.Excelior 2010-09-02 21:58:17  


Here is a political check list, if you know the right answers to the following issues make mental note:

Gay Marriage
Taxes
Abortion
State Gambling laws
Healthcare
War
Peace
Democrat
Republican
Independent
Stem Cell Reasearch
Imigration

Ok, if you've picked out any answers in that list and said they are right or wrong. You have failed to have any understanding of politics. I bet 99% of people in the US would fail this test.

The nature of politics isn't right or wrong, its winning your argument. Only niave people truly believe the ***that is on TV. Truth is, there are very real and legitimate arguments on all sides for almost every issue. Being right comes down to who supports their case best.
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 Shiva.Xellith
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By Shiva.Xellith 2010-09-03 07:09:52  
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Shiva.Xellith said:
Sylph.Dobrusi said:
Bahamut.Ashua said:
Phoenix.Excelior said:
There's used to be tests required to vote but they were used to oppress black voters and were ruled unconstitutional. While it would be nice if everyone was informed and understanding of issues, it doesn't change the fact that everyone in this country is equal.

Really what people should require are that you can not vote without a highschool education(its free no excuse to not have). Graduatation from highschool should require a working knowledge of the Federal and state level government. While you may not know the ins and outs of politics if you don't even know what the person's your voting for job is its hard for you to make a decision.

If John McCain were black and obama was white, mccain would be our president.

Not that I would care much. That election was a lose/lose situation.

Thats funny, I agree. There was no good candidate. I voted for John though because I don't agree with abortion. I think barrack hussain is a complete hypocrite as he claims to be a christian and yet he supports abortion as well as his entire staff. Christians aren't perfect, I certainly am not but when you go against the bible that you believe in, thats a problem. My opinion of course.

the bible also says that parents should stone their children if they are being disrespectful. the death penalty is used in a lot of states... THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

Treat others as you would have them treat you - an eye for an eye

----

The bible itself is just made up hippocritical ***. Dont even try and pretend that you can follow it without breaking some other rule in it that says something completely different.

Given your comment, you clearly don't know much about the bible. The New Testament sort of overruled the Old Testament because there was no "Jesus" in that time. God sent Jesus to be the example which is what protestant Christian's believe and is also why they follow the New Testaments teachings.

Seriously just sit down and think for a few mins on what you just said. Can you honestly tell me that you believe that you can pick and choose what parts of the bible you choose to believe?
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By Vittles 2010-09-03 08:01:36  
Carbuncle.Sevourn said:
http://pewresearch.org/politicalquiz/quiz/ in case you arent familiar with quiz bowl... requiring... say... 90% on something along these lines would also do nicely Related Story 32% of Americans aren't even aware we have a trade deficit. I don't think it's rational to give people at that level of ignorance the power to make decisions that affect the future of the country.


LOL, im not sure that the remaining 68% even vote... not that that excludes the 'right minded' people each of us think should be able to vote... but check this out.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0781453.html#axzz0yTG0Udlu
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By Vittles 2010-09-03 08:09:06  
He was born from a muslim father, that made him one until he was baptized... (idk if he was, havnt seen his baptismal garb or the sevice so idk. But idc what religion someone is.. can he do the job? IMO... he is an epic fail... worst than Jimmy Carter, who was a nice guy... just coundnt get it right.
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By 2010-09-03 21:40:06
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 Valefor.Tarl
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By Valefor.Tarl 2010-09-03 23:10:04  
The Founding Fathers of the United States rarely praised and often criticized democracy, which in their time tended to specifically mean direct democracy; James Madison argued, especially in The Federalist No. 10, that what distinguished a democracy from a republic was that the former became weaker as it got larger and suffered more violently from the effects of faction, whereas a republic could get stronger as it got larger and combats faction by its very structure. This country was founded as a republic, as a democracy we are slowly destroying this country. As far as who should be allowed to vote, if your a citizen then it's your right to vote whether your an idiot or not, doesn't make much difference really which vote to make in my opinion, they are all evil, rotton, sobs. The one thing that gave the people the power to keep their government in check has been infringed, the 2nd amendment. As to the Bible remarks above, this book is very large & complex, but with some time, research & common sense it can be understood with ease, it was written by men not God, it has been translated, some books even omitted, but for every rule law or story in the Bible there are another dozen areas to confirm it. Also you don't always take every word literally as it would mean today, also some of the translations in this book from Hebrew to English are very poor, like this one,(On the first "day" God created the Heavens & the Earth) if you took that literally, then yes this book makes no sense & your an idiot. The word day here was a very weak & poor translation. Another translation would be, (On the first "age" God created the heavens & the earth) with a little common sense it becomes more clear. The New Testament did not "overrule" the Old, unless otherwise specifically mentioned, like having many wives or making sacrifices on alters.
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