DRG @ 99

言語: JP EN DE FR
2010-06-21
New Items
users online
フォーラム » FFXI » Jobs » Dragoon » DRG @ 99
DRG @ 99
 Fairy.Kelvinclein
Offline
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 361
By Fairy.Kelvinclein 2010-03-01 09:20:11  
It's not STUPID to be talking about it. Obviously it's situational, but aside from having to remove status effects, Blu subjob is sub looks superior to me.
 Pandemonium.Areis
Offline
サーバ: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
user: Areis
Posts: 107
By Pandemonium.Areis 2010-03-01 09:38:13  
I'm in a bit of a toss up for which mage sup i prefer.

at 75:
/Blu : Cocoon, Sprout Smack, Wild Oats
Really for anything i don't see myself needing bar spells or sneak the ability to land Slow even if it's only minor is very nice.

/Rdm : Bar-
I dunno why i started doing Campaign as /Rdm but I feel more comfortable on it

/Whm : Bar-, Erase & -na
If i need a tele... I'll get on whm

/Sch : Sublimation, Dark Arts/Aspir & Sleep, Light Arts/-na
Lacking fast trigger spells, but you can land sleep & aspir along with getting some -na's and can front load sublimation just in case your runnin low on MP

at 99:
/Blu : Refueling
/Rdm : Haste, Convert, Refresh
/Whm : Haste, more tele's
/Sch : lol.Accession

I imagine I'd play just about the same...
/Blu : do i need cocoon to live?
/Rdm : long endurance fight?
/Whm : do i need to tele- myself to get there
/Sch : am i just dicking around?
[+]
 Ragnarok.Darkifrit
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Ifrid
Posts: 8
By Ragnarok.Darkifrit 2010-03-01 09:44:51  
/sam /blu(awesome). Nice to meet you :) refueling and more blu stat spells:3 /rdm /whm i dont like it for solo.. /blu is the way.
 Seraph.Zenki
Offline
サーバ: Seraph
Game: FFXI
user: Zenki
Posts: 19
By Seraph.Zenki 2010-03-01 14:26:55  
Yeah sorry about putting Blu down but mostly It depends on how you play...some ppl are good with /rdm or /blu or /whm w/e it depends on how u play.....I'm too lazy to lvl some mages for my drg <.<
 Fairy.Spiriel
Offline
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
user: Spiriel
Posts: 74
By Fairy.Spiriel 2010-03-01 14:44:21  
tbh, I haven't noticed that much damage control from Cocoon. I still eat damage like an alcoholic drinks. I started out with /RDM because I hate healing, but eventually added /WHM for Raise and Reraise. I really don't want to add more levels to /WHM, either >.>

Funny we've even mentioned the unusual /SCH, but nobody's brought up /BLM :p

As others have said, it's situational. For Campaign, you can pry /WHM from my cold, dead hands. But do it fast, 'cause I'll be reraising in a second. I also like /WHM for Sea soloing, but I tried /BLU the other night and found it was working fairly well, even without status cures. And of course, I was 75 with /RDM before I ever leveled /WHM.

ymmv, use whatever you like. I think my base Attack drops a whole 14 between WAR and SAM vs WHM.

Also glad not to see /DNC even remotely considered >.> It doesn't work XO
 Cerberus.Kalder
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Kalder
Posts: 4
By Cerberus.Kalder 2010-03-01 16:19:07  
For the most part, if/when i'm soloing on drg, i bring /blu. For my personal playstyle, the cast/recast speed, mp cost, and cocoon is hard to beat.

/rdm is nice, but i haven't found anything that REQUIRES me to be /rdm rather than /blu. On some occasions i do go /whm where things like erase and reraise can make or break winning/beating your mob. (like soloing Sheep in Antlion's Clothing)

In regards to new spells and abilities with /rdm (as 99 drg). Again I don't think it will fit my playstyle nor is it really game changing--

With convert: If you run out of MP i would think you're either fighting something too difficult, or using trigger spells that cost too much. Also, I can't imagine someone Converting while fighting, limiting it to be used in between fights.

Refresh: Being a 5 second cast (it will admittedly be less with fast cast of course) it will very likely be interrupted. Therefore the only time you would use it is before a fight. For longer endurance fights if you NEEDED the refresh to keep afloat on MP, you'll quickly run out of MP once it wears. (see convert)

Haste: This is very nice for recasts, and DOT in general as we all know. But depending on what you're fighting you are likely never constantly meleeing to truly get the benefit of it. People soloing will be interrupting their attack rounds when casting their healing breath triggers.... unless you're fighting something easy like lesser colibris. With recasts, both /rdm and /blu have enough spells to alternate HB triggers without worrying so much about it. I would say the same thing about the BLU spell refueling

Again, i'm not saying /blu is the end all, be all, but for me personally, I cannot see the benefit of /rdm over it.

Just like others said -- all comes down to preference.

(i do solo with ethereal earring, ares body, and usually have sanction refresh or whatever)
[+]
 Fairy.Astakz
Offline
サーバ: Fairy
Game: FFXI
user: Astakz
Posts: 2
By Fairy.Astakz 2010-03-01 16:27:48  
I think you all should be worrying about GRINDING ALL THOSE SUBJOBS TO LV49 before complaining about the strength of the combinations itself.

WHM37 took all my patience away, I don't think I'm gonna level it back..
I quit and got really excited when I saw the new updates; was thinking of coming back, but after reading the level cap is gonna be raised, only the sentence "Crap, gotta level all those painfully boring subjobs to 49? Riiiiiiight SE, you are not gonna have my money." came to mind.
This is BS, it's just giving the extreme nerds something to care about, pointless to raise the cap.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-03-02 00:26:28  
I think some of you are forgetting this is best sub at 99 not 75. /Blu gains pretty much nothing but refueling and um def bonus and some stat spells in that range. /Rdm gains a hell of a lot. If nothing else 5% more haste will speed up your kills, Fast cast get your spells off faster, Dia/bio 2. Refresh, Barspells (not only for HB but to help status effects a little), MDB, shell II, Pro III, ice spikes, dispel!!!

As far as defense goes lets compare cocoon to say just Protect III and bio2 and phalanx.

Assuming no improvement on +enhancing gear and no merits in enhancing the best phalanx a drg/rdm can get is 13.

I figure drg at 99 probably tp in 450 w/o food or cocoon/pro whatever. Let's say the lvl 108 mobs you are fighting have 700 att.

Cocoon will raise that def to 675 making your ratio 1.03. Assuming mob dmg is calculated same as ours on a single hand weapon mob that would come out to a pdif of .424-1.28

Will pro III will raise your def to 490 and bio II lower the mobs att to 628. So that would put ratio at 1.28. That would make pdif .716-1.58.

So with prot/bio vs cocoon you will take by 23.4%-68.8% more dmg before phalanx.

I'll assume a mob fstr+base dmg of 117 which would put dmg with cocoon at 50-150.

And with pro/bio/phalanx it would be 70-171. For a dmg gain of all of 20-21 per hit.


Assuming capped gear haste that extra 5% haste 8.3% in attack speed. While true you aren't just attacking you are HBing too well you are saving time to melee with fast cast.

You will shave probably like .075 off your cast time for HB triggers. Since pretty sure it rounds to .1 that might be .1 or nothing.

And the fact that cocoon last only 1 min vs 2min bio and 3min phalanx...
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2010-03-02 00:37:47  
That 20-21 damage adds up. I'd even argue it probably balances out the additional 5% Haste as it means more time spent casting, so kill time is unchanged but the danger factor increases.

DRG can't quite cap gear Haste, 24% is our limit. Most will only have maybe 19% (5% difference is Dusk +1, VBelt, Wyrm Mail +1).

If you're going to argue casting frequency, remember that Refueling lasts 5 minutes and most soloists cycle in Cocoon as a trigger spell when it's about to wear off (yes, /RDM can do the same - just making the point). Also, get your duration right you silly BLU o_O It's 90 seconds.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Offline
サーバ: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
user: dasva
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2010-03-02 01:05:48  
Actually if you count weapon drg can get to 29%. But staffs aside 24% for now lol. If you don't think drg can scrap together 1 more haste in 24 lvls... well just look how haste gear is tiered already and how it starts kinda high vastly scales up with lvl especially at the end. I mean sure SE is dumb and lame... but I don't really see people wearing the exact same tp gear now at 99.

As far as the 20-21 dmg adding up I wasn't really factoring anything else in. If para from ice spikes procs just 1/6 attacks you already got that dmg back. Also there is the lowering the effectiveness of debuffs with barspells or elemental dmg with them. Not to mention all magic dmg /rdm will be 23% less before resist or phalanx. Danger factor is negilible at that dmg and the hp you will be at.

As far as dmg dealt well I wasn't factoring in alot like the bio dmg. Or the 13-21 enspell dmg you could do. Or dispelling buffs most mobs will put up. Or Dia II if you are handling dmg fine.

Either way /rdm brings alot in those lvls should bring it up to /blu solo or surpass it
 Ragnarok.Darkifrit
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Ifrid
Posts: 8
By Ragnarok.Darkifrit 2010-03-03 04:33:24  
i still want see what happened when they raised the lvl cap..
/blu will have more blu points new magic for status bonus and cocoon def increasce for sure..
necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [491 days between previous and next post]
 Ragnarok.Ashman
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Ashman
Posts: 4248
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-07-07 09:17:37  
Joining in the trend and necrobumping silly threads for absolutely no reason.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
Guide Maker
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: Seha
Posts: 13352
By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-07 09:24:09  
Drg at 99
[+]
 Siren.Thoraeon
Offline
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Thoraeon
Posts: 2215
By Siren.Thoraeon 2011-07-07 12:54:24  
Phoenix.Sehachan said:

xD
 Cerberus.Rayik
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Rayik
Posts: 924
By Cerberus.Rayik 2011-07-25 11:39:47  
I'm new to DRG, why would /dnc be a bad thing?
 Ragnarok.Ashman
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Ashman
Posts: 4248
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-07-25 11:44:01  
Cerberus.Rayik said:
I'm new to DRG, why would /dnc be a bad thing?

because /mage cures are exponentially stronger and you get a better variety of traits. I can cure for more than waltz'es (sometimes 2-3x as much situationally) for 5-8 mp as often as I can cast dia, stone, footkick etc.

Each job presents its own bonuses as well. whm gives me self haste and hp regen/mdb to wyvern. blu gives me another self haste, cocoon. Also mage buffs are usually able to be empathy buffed on wyvern while nothing /dnc can do does.

It's like refusing to use one of the better aspect of drg soloing.

edit: I should point out that the "granting regen/mdb" is assuming that you have relic body and macro it in when you call wyvern.
 Bahamut.Bojack
Offline
サーバ: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Bojack316
Posts: 2076
By Bahamut.Bojack 2011-07-25 11:53:30  
Cerberus.Rayik said:
I'm new to DRG, why would /dnc be a bad thing?

In a solo'ing situation only, why waste your TP healing yourself when you could sub RDM heal yourself for more with 5 or 6 mp. With dynamis every day now I'm sure any good main DRG can get themselves a Wyrm Armet fairly easily. With a good Wyvern HP set there's no reason why you can't heal yourself for 500-600hp every couple seconds (1k or more every 5 minutes with Deep Breathing). Plus the many other benefits of a mage sub: Cocoon, Haste, Refresh, Phalanx, Dispel, Reraise, etc. I just really see no reason to ever sub DNC on DRG.

Although now that there is Restoring Breath it's a little different. Whenever I solo something where Restoring Breath every minute is enough to keep me alive forever I just sub SAM. So basically, /SAM for pure DD, /SAM for Easy stuff where Restoring Breath is plenty, /(RDM,WHM, or BLU) for soloing where Restoring Breath isn't enough.

Edit: Also, what Ashman said.
 Ragnarok.Tuvae
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Tuvae
Posts: 1277
By Ragnarok.Tuvae 2011-07-25 12:04:45  
Ragnarok.Ashman said:
Joining in the trend and necrobumping silly threads for absolutely no reason.
You're a bad man >=o giving into peer pressure!
 Cerberus.Rayik
Offline
サーバ: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
user: Rayik
Posts: 924
By Cerberus.Rayik 2011-07-25 12:40:38  
Bahamut.Bojack said:
Cerberus.Rayik said:
I'm new to DRG, why would /dnc be a bad thing?

In a solo'ing situation only, why waste your TP healing yourself when you could sub RDM heal yourself for more with 5 or 6 mp. With dynamis every day now I'm sure any good main DRG can get themselves a Wyrm Armet fairly easily. With a good Wyvern HP set there's no reason why you can't heal yourself for 500-600hp every couple seconds (1k or more every 5 minutes with Deep Breathing). Plus the many other benefits of a mage sub: Cocoon, Haste, Refresh, Phalanx, Dispel, Reraise, etc. I just really see no reason to ever sub DNC on DRG.

Although now that there is Restoring Breath it's a little different. Whenever I solo something where Restoring Breath every minute is enough to keep me alive forever I just sub SAM. So basically, /SAM for pure DD, /SAM for Easy stuff where Restoring Breath is plenty, /(RDM,WHM, or BLU) for soloing where Restoring Breath isn't enough.

Edit: Also, what Ashman said.

Good points all around. I've just become so accustomed to going /dnc a lot lately with war and drk mains. I haven't subbed a mage job on a DD in a very long time, so I'm really out of practice with it. Just got a Wyrm Armet last night, actually.
 Ragnarok.Ashman
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Ashman
Posts: 4248
By Ragnarok.Ashman 2011-07-25 12:55:11  
Ragnarok.Tuvae said:
Ragnarok.Ashman said:
Joining in the trend and necrobumping silly threads for absolutely no reason.
You're a bad man >=o giving into peer pressure!

necroskull Necro Bump Detected! [101 days between previous and next post]
 Phoenix.Dragonfate
Offline
サーバ: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: robersua
Posts: 39
By Phoenix.Dragonfate 2011-11-03 14:26:50  
Kujata.Kensagaku said: »
Siren.Ihm said:
Its all situational in the end, theres no one sub for DRG/Mage, any good DRG should know this.

^ This

Ihm's right, there's no one subjob for DRG/mage. I've got all of them leveled 'cept for RDM, though I'm working on that once I get Phalanx. (stupid price jacking, they used to be 50k!) But I've played /BLU, /WHM, and I get the concept behind /RDM too. Each has its own benefits for the situation.

/BLU is a great soloing job between Cocoon for defense, a fast, cheap HB trigger, and the rest of the spells being used for stats alone or for traits like Auto-Regen or Clear Mind. The downside is that Cocoon can drain MP fast if you don't watch it, and when we get Refueling witth the new level caps... say buh-bye MP. We can't set Conserve MP.

/WHM is the one I generally use when I'm not facing uber-strong mobs like Greater Colibri. Reraise is my best friend, not to mention Protect/Shell for some additional defenses. With the update DRG will get Haste on /WHM, meaning another MP drain... bleh. We'll have Regen II for less downtime and Protect III at least. I don't see /WHM really benefiting here though.

/RDM is the big uproar right now because of Refresh. It already had Phalanx as early as DRG66, so that's not the issue. Traits don't get a huge improvement; the MAB II doesn't matter because even with the Wyrm Mail transferring the trait it's a support wyvern subjob, so that's pointless. MDB is nice, I suppose. But Refresh, and Haste at DRG96/RDM48 using that Refresh to offset it would be nice, and you can still use a cheap Barstone for a 6 MP HB trigger.

As it's been stated, all three subjobs have their ups and downs. It's mostly situational, and it's mostly preference. The point of the game isn't to play a job a certain way just because they say "This is how you do it." Play it the way that works best for you.


you too are soooo true. (o and every one left out SCH) lol
 Siren.Inuyushi
Offline
サーバ: Siren
Game: FFXI
user: Inuyushi
Posts: 507
By Siren.Inuyushi 2011-11-03 14:37:04  
Get an Ethereal Earring, your MP problems will be gone for good. You wont even bother wasting your time on Refresh.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
サーバ: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-11-03 14:57:34  
The only use I can think of for /SCH is using Empathy to transfer Sublimation when fighting a mob that uses Sleepga. Even then, you'll be ***out of luck once it finishes charging since there's no way to make the wyvern use the completed charge. You'd have to be able to resummon it immediately and transfer the buff again. Aside from that, it's vastly inferior to /RDM, /BLU, and /WHM.
[+]
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Sekundes
Posts: 4164
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-11-03 15:18:10  
/sch has no good trigger spells. I dismissed it as soon as I saw it's spell list when the job came out. Sure, you can get decent enhancing and other skill levels but they provide little use for a drg solo situation over the benefits of other subs particularly considering they lack the spells that having enhancing skill would help.
 Ragnarok.Ruklin
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Ruklin
Posts: 188
By Ragnarok.Ruklin 2011-11-03 15:25:16  
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
/sch has no good trigger spells. I dismissed it as soon as I saw it's spell list when the job came out. Sure, you can get decent enhancing and other skill levels but they provide little use for a drg solo situation over the benefits of other subs particularly considering they lack the spells that having enhancing skill would help.
Shouldn't you be writing a paper or something slacker?
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
Offline
サーバ: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
user: Sekundes
Posts: 4164
By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2011-11-03 15:37:51  
Ragnarok.Ruklin said: »
Ragnarok.Sekundes said: »
/sch has no good trigger spells. I dismissed it as soon as I saw it's spell list when the job came out. Sure, you can get decent enhancing and other skill levels but they provide little use for a drg solo situation over the benefits of other subs particularly considering they lack the spells that having enhancing skill would help.
Shouldn't you be writing a paper or something slacker?
Actually, I'm at work, but yes, I have plenty of programming I could be doing for school also...
Log in to post.