RNG Weapon Question

Well I just looked at your RNG equips. I'm done talking.

That's my tp set you idiot

Not defending nor condemning since I don't know enough about RNG, but 2x March + Haste spell with only a Swift Belt in gear for HasteTP and Mkris singlewielded gives you 100% TP every 20.8s or so on average.

Whether this beats the standard method, I'm not sure. Tempted to say it would when you get access to more Haste gear almost definitely.

The problem with that, is that while RNG can get TP really fast, about half of their damage comes from normal ranged attacks. RNG/WAR, I average 450 or so with 525 crits. Assuming capped crit rate, that's 2775~ damage in the TP phase, and about the same with WS. That's not factoring in Barrage, of course.

Then with ranged attacks, base delay is 580 (490+90). Adding in Velocity Shot (Which btw you can't use if you're melee RNG), that's -15%. -10% from merits, -5% from Mirke body, -5% from Zha'Go's Barbut, that's 377 delay.

377*6=2262/60=37.7 seconds to get 100 TP through normal ranged attacks.

So a full cycle of TP >> WS takes about 38 seconds and does 5550 damage with ranged attacks.




Now if we do the same tests with a melee bias, you have 21 seconds to gain 100 TP (using Raen's numbers to make this easier), then a WS. Assuming you're /WAR like I am, you automatically lose 15% damage from the WS and another 25% if you're in melee range. Meaning roughly 1665 damage. Take out the +8 STR and +10 R.Attack and it's something like 1570 if you were using the exact same gear minus the staff. The damage from normal hits is so minor it barely deserves to be calculated in but let's give it the benefit of the doubt and add 150 damage for TP phase.




21 seconds to do 1720 damage, or 38 seconds to do 5550 damage.

Just eyeballing it, without any math, you can tell which one is better. But just to prove my point,

1720/21=81.9=3112

In 38 seconds, you can either do 5550 damage using ranged attacks for TP or 3112 damage using Merc Kris for TP.

Sorry for the novella of a post.

Actually I do do velocity shot and I do shoot too. Seriously if you only sit there and melee your doing it wrong. Also velocity shot is not 15% dmg it is ratt. Nor is distance -dmg it is lower ratt. And point blank is still 85% of your base ratt. And seeing as melee is around 3 and gun sweet spot starts at 4.5 you'd have to be an idiot not to back up that tiny amount.

Also you are comparing near perfect range tp setup to a lvl 60 melee setup

RNG/DRG is great for fights like Odin, can halve your enmity every 3minutes, not that this answers your original question.

Sure thing. I'm almost 70. Need some more gears should have 75 and gears in a week or 2. Longer if I have to lvl /war if you are going /war

It's not an easy situation to do mathematically sadly :( if you do move out of range to make your Barrage stronger (I would personally) and your WS stronger etc and then move back in, you're losing melee TP time which is basically the whole reason for the weapon in the first place: it is pure TP and nothing else. So even doing that weakens it...

Everyone knows Kraken Club does very well, but Mkris... hmm. I honestly have no idea. I think you could possibly have a chance at winning at 75 with all of the haste gear available, especially if you have a DNC - just swamp them with the WS frequency.

Ridill is another interesting idea, because its melee DoT is actually quite nice. Hmm... if only there was an easy way to quantify it without using too much effort.

Velocity Shot whilst building TP with an M Kris? Really not doing your argument any favours. Enternius's rough maths is more or less exactly how it works. The damage you're doing from M Kris meleeing to 100 TP is never going to come close to reaching as much damage...

And really, if you think you can outparse even a mediocre shooting RNG with M Kris, then the standard of RNGs on Ramuh must be horrific. Because that just wouldn't happen.

I've seen M Kris RNG & COR in action, neither of which comes close to the alternative; which for RNG is either shooting or Krakening (but it's not fair to compare Kraken & Kris) or Joyeuse COR. Simply, the reason people don't use it is because it rarely trumps somebody who bothers to play the job.

With Silver Bullets & Hellfire +1 in merit party I average around 450 odd a bullet, if I shoot. Which I don't, because I use Kraken. But it would take me 5 bullets to get to 100 TP shooting, which is nearly 2250 damage (roughly). I don't know delay maths very well to calculate how long that would take, but... Your WS's will even be lower anyway, because you're losing the STR from Vulcan's and Axe Grip and the RATT on Staff.

So essentially, 2250 damage from TP phase, plus a whopping WS, versus the teeny weeny tickling of a dagger and a whopping, but slightly less than the other, WS.

I'm not great at maths, but the better options is quite obvious.

Oh, missed that ;x yeah, DEFINITELY do not do that. The only way Mkris has a chance of approaching the ranged TP damage is if you're squeezing out every little bit of TP advantage from it.

Lol I don't think you get the concept of shooting and then when you can't shoot but your melee timers are going then melee... seriously not a hard concept.

You said you use Velocity Shot, when using M Kris. Why is it then my lack of concept because of something you said?

Why wouldn't I shoot if I had velocity shot up? There would be next to no purpose in having it up then except for once every 5 min. Always I've said like 5 times already the whole shoot and then melee thing. Sounds like a lack of understanding or an inability to read

I would be tempted to offer Wooooodum honorary membership into the Federation of British Cats though he appears to lose his tail sometimes ;O

Do I need to completely disregard the fact Velocity Shot whacks a lovely chunk of slow on your meleeing when active to understand your point?

For M Kris to even be a considerable advantage for RNG, you have to squeeze every single mother f***ing second out of it, otherwise you're practically throwing any chance of advantage away.

So you are saying, you shoot bullets/arrows, using M kris between shots, to get 100 TP and then WS? So the occasional double / rare triple attacks in those melee rounds will make up for all that DoT?

No. Just no. Dasva, you're not an idiot. Stop acting like one. Seems like you're now arguing about this just for the sake of it. If you honestly believe that M kris is giving you an advantage in DoT over other RNGs, then the respect I have for you has gone.

Especially as you're essentially arguing with every RNG there's ever been, and telling them that they're wrong... Might be good to bring in some parsing, some results, some proof; because yes, it is your job to make us believe and understand, not ours to understand. If you can prove to me M Kris outparses a non-naked RNG shooting for DoT in exp, I'll swallow my pride and say I'm wrong.

In the spirit of enlightenment, by all means do so.

I can't help it... it's like hair colour, my favourite changes every week. =(

It doesn't matter if it slows me cause I'm using time that would have been already wasted. That is the goddamn point.

Seriously where is this loss of Dot you speak of? From being at 3.5 instead of 4.5 from the mob? Yeah ok.

Also those aren't occasion and rare. Mkris averages about 1.9 hits per round.

Also arguing with ever rng that has probably never even tried it lol.

Of course, that's a certainy. Wonderful way to reinforce your argument.

Enternius covered this already. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Well duh, let me see. Possibly the part where you're losing stats to melee with a butter knife? Distance has nothing to do with my argument, you're the one who keeps bringing that up. Although since you do, yes, you are losing damage from being closer to the monster on your ranged attacks than the sweet spot. Every little counts when you're comparing the DoT of weapons.

So? I could flip a coin 100 times and get 100 heads, what good is an advantage if you don't always get it? If I'm going to preach to up-and-coming RNGs that M Kris is the way to go, I need a little more substantial reliability than "It averages 1.9 hits per round!"

Lovely discussing it with you as always but I have to go. At the end of it all I don't give a rats *** what you do or how you do it, it's entirely your choice. Can't beat a good debate though!

Vulcan's/Axe on anything you cap Acc on. Kriegs/Franny on anything you need extra acc from. Never use a Woodville's Axe. The point in dual wielding is to gain extra acc so using an axe that gives 0 makes this pretty moot.

To original poster:
Fire Staff is a must (HQ one is better, but for low budget NQ is already great!)
But carrying accuracy weapons too is never a bad idea.
Sometime you haven't capped archery/marksmanship skills (especialy if you abused level-synch or campaign battle) and/or if you're facing high evasion mobs.
Try using fire staff first, then if ya miss a lot, add more accuracy.

As a side note, you should try to add ranged accuracy on other slots before weapon if ya miss (ex: rings give low str/r.att bonus but huge ranged accuracy bonus)

That will sound pretty basic for experienced rangers, but I think that's best hint I could give to someone leveling Rng ^^

Lol this thread has inspired me to make RNG my main when If I get my char back. The Mini expansion gear isn't too bad for RNG at all either.. that +1 barrage is farkin sexy.. I always had good gear for my rng just never merited it... def goao take off my Gkat and rep it with Archery... Had Ebow, Vulcans, osode, Skote, ruby+1's... only thing I lacked has a decent TP body and legs.. /excited... oh and gunna post GM convo for today.. yay -_-

I just realized I completely messed up the math here. Fixing something.

Essentially the same WS frequency whether you're using ammo to get your TP or Merc Kris.

Oh my with fully pimped gear at lvl 75 with merits you can get tp as fast as a someone using mostly lvl 50-60 gear at that lvl. Wow that's amazing. Of course his math assuming constant attacking with it which already brought up aint happening. I'll I'm doing is taking advantage of that time between when you can't do anything in the way of jas/ws or ranged attacks but you can melee

I love threads where Dasva shows his true stupidity.

Either way, the only two reasons to ever TP with a multi-hit weapon (outside of Kraken) is for fun or ammo conservation. I load up the Ridill when I use RNG in Campaign, it's great fun in there and I dont have to waste ammo on useless mobs. I can't see much of a use for it anywhere else, your DoT from regular ranged attacks is just too high for any melee damage you could do to even come close.

Kraken Club rangers might see it differently, since the TP gain from that weapon is simply so high that the number of weaponskills you can spam may begin to outweigh the DoT from standard ranged attacks.

No matter what the case, meleeing with Velocity Shot active is pure stupidity.

So what your saying is sitting there doing nothing is better than getting tp inbetween? Man people are way too close minded. Also rng has even worse club skill than dagger. So good luck hitting without those merits I can't put into it

That's exactly what all of these people are trying to tell you.

Just because it looks like you're doing something on screen doesnt actually mean you're being effective.

You obviously don't have a Kclub or a 75 Rng so how can you even comment on this. Brd/cor spamming Crab Sushi using march x2 hunter's and chaos is 90% accuracy and 2 Slug Shot's every bird. I have more haste on Rng then most do on there melee jobs....

For the chick that made this thread, ignore the level 60 ranger. I have done plenty on ranger (Dark Ixion, JoL, Odin) use vulcan's/axe grip. If you are under 90% kreigs/franny. The end, this thread should be done. If you merit on ranger, go jump off a bridge, a decent SAM or WAR will out parse you by a mile.