Scythe....Vs....Great Sword...

Your words, not mine.

I didn't insult you in any way.

This is the kind of situation where I would normally tell you why one is better than the other, but that's not even necessary in this case. Unless Algol has some rediculous hidden effects that I'm unaware of, it's going the way of Ridill before too long.

This is either a half-decent troll or a comment that was made in total ignorance of the discussion preceding it. It's not an auto-cap hitrate bonus, just very large.

Not sure how this proves anything. But going straight from stats same dmg rating slightly more acc on nag and a decent bit more attack but more delay.

With 489 delay Algol will attack once ever 8.15 sec with no haste. So take 100 attack rounds and you get 815sec to do 106 swings (assuming no other double/triple attacks). Now Nag takes 8.35 sec to swing no haste so in the 815sec it would do 97.6 swings. So quick math says Algol will swing about 8.6% faster.

Does 4acc and 17 attack really beat that? Also no idea about the fire dmg

Whatever Enternius. Better things to do than argue with you today lol.

Also have to take into account the Triple Attack, when that hits on a Spinning Slash, it'll shoot Algol up the parsing.

Well pretty sure my thread gotten taken way out of proportion but i just wanted to say thank you to everyone who contributed information to me and I think I'm just going to keep tossing them back and forth till I finally get drk to 75 and get to make my choice

The delay is the biggest factor in what makes Naglering technically better.

Doing some quick math, with /SAM, you will need +11 sTP in gear to achieve 6-hit. Rajas and Brutal are given, for a guaranteed +6, but then you have 5 more to fill in.

You can use Rose Strap and Chiv Chain, I guess, but then you're losing a potential +5 ACC in the neck slot.

You could use Askar Korazin, but >.> Lolaskar.

The only ways to make Algol good, force you to make other slots worse. While this is also true with Naglering, it's to a much lesser extent, to the point where you really only have to drop 1 ACC on a ring in order to get a 6 hit.

So yes, in pure DoT, if you were not concerned about gaining TP, Algol would win. But in overall anything you'd use GS for, Naglering has a tendency to outperform it.

Your "quick math" is not even close to accurate.

1/(489/501) = 1.024539877 = 2.45% faster.

When it comes down to it, the difference is so negligible that unless two DRKs had identical gear/merits/race, you wouldn't notice it in the long run. But the fact that Naglering is so much easier to get and does tend to be that much better, there's no reason to use Algol, really, outside of PLD or WAR.

I guess it looks kinda cool? But I still think Naglering looks cooler lol.

Also, forgot to mention that the "quick math" wasn't even quick lol. Mine took me about 15 seconds to do.

Which is why you completely missed triple attack good job

Triple attack is calculated separately from delay, has 0 to do w/ delay, ect. "Faster" is the rate in which your attack rounds come. I never said I was doing a full comparison, which is why you didn't see the triple attack. Guess what, you also didn't see the 4 acc or 20 attack. I was going purely by number of attack rounds.

Also, if you're looking at pure number of attacks, you're still wrong. Double attack and triple attack can't proc on the same hit. Which means if you're using brutal and/or pole grip, you gain less from the triple attack on algol.

Maybe you should read the post you quoted by more. Clearly you didn't see more than 1 sentence

and lol at no other double attack or triple attack. That's a totally unrealistic situation. May as well say rng can't use bullets.

And your quick math still wasn't quick

106/100 = 6% increase
1/(489/501) = 1.024539877 = 2.45% faster.

1.06 x 1.0245 = 8.597%

30 seconds.
you're also leaving out w/e stats you'd gain from not having to sacrifice [insert gear slot here] for store tp.

You're are confusing a few things. And thats why you and others are having a hard time grasping the fact of being able to hit capped acc in almost all situations. HNM situations is very hard to call, b/c first of all you need a high amount of ws frequency to gage what the average, this is the key word, *average* ws acc would be. How often or how many ws do you think you can do on an HNM? 30? 50? 100? b/c its large sample sizes like this that you will be able to get an exact average.

Ive missed 3 ws back to back, and still parsed higher than 90% on my ws acc, due to the fact that over time with all the ws that I am pumping out on sam, it *averages* out to be capped or damn near it. The bonus on the acc for 1-hit ws seems to be around 60~80acc(maybe higher). Most sams dont wear any acc gear apart from the common pieces(shura/osode/bushi/rajas/gorget/warwolf belt), a naked sam has around 331~ acc. Now add that to most mobs in this game and you start seeing why it can cap out or get near it on most events in this game. HNMs? theres always pizza+1 for sams(enough to put you at 465/85 accuracy in ws with bonus/usual ws gear).

Saying you should average 7 ws to 1 miss, is a bit miss leading, because you can miss twice in a row and not miss for a while. You dont automatically ws a certain amount of times in a row, and then miss and then again ws a number of times in a row, and miss etc etc. Over a given period of time, it will average out, and you will see what that average is. You could ws 10,ws miss 1, ws 25 more,ws miss 2, ws 35 more,ws miss 1, ws 10 and miss another 1, and ws 15 to end 100 ws, and guess what, you ws 100 times and missed 5 times, still giving you 95% acc and not having to ws 20 times and miss 1, however it would *average* around that, esp with more ws #s. Bigger samples will always help pinpoint an accurate average.

Now back to the OP, you are essentially dealing with GS having ws with fTP of 2.50 at 100% tp with an attack bonus to it of some sort and on top of that being a 1hitter, having a higher acc naturally for its first hit. Vs scythe its ws is 3.85ftp at 100% total, with no att bonus, and only the first getting the large acc bonus. Therefore anytime you arent landing 3-4 hits on guillo, GS would of been better. Also the att bonus from GS helps it maintain a higher average than guillo as well if you arent buffed, as having high attack would favor any situation you find yourself vs an HNM defensive type of mob.

Well seeing as most rngs use a bow... I just didn't feel like doing all the math unecessarily. Unless you use um homam you probably don't have any other triple attack and generally you will only have the 2% from the grip and 5% from brutal. The odds of that 3% tripple attack procing at the same time as the double attack not exactly good (.21%). Bad enough where it wouldn't change the amount of attack that much. But sure if you multipied that sample by 5 you'd on average have it happen once. So you'd get 3 less attacks that time.

So well do that then 500 attack rounds double should proc 35 times and triple attack 15 with 1 of them being a double attack instead. So 563. In that same Nag would have 488.02 attack rounds which with 7% double attack would end up being 522.18 swings. 563/522.18= 1.078. Still almost 8% faster

While the math may check out, you're still using the wrong term. Faster is based on delay and how often your attack rounds occur. While it's just a technicality, it's the reason I misunderstood what you were saying in the first place, so it's not like it doesn't matter.

For example, if I use a staff and pair of h2h w/ the exact same delay, I don't say the h2h are twice as fast.

It's only 4 store tp. Not that hard to make up.

4 stp, depending on where you put it can mean a lot towards nag's damage. For example if you use askar body vs nag using haub(+1). Or swap out your fire bomblet for white tathlum, or even rose strap + chiv chain + ecphoria

Yeah well you get the point though right? Yes techinically not the right after all the effective speed increase from the triple attack doesn't lower your tp gain so really it can be better or worse than just a delay decrease. Better in that can get that 6 hit just as easy worse if you keep triple attack 1 hit away from full tp lol

Ok Nag needs 8 Algol 12 (/sam of course) Rajas (5) and brutal(1) are kinda easy picks. Which makes Nag need 2 more and algol 6.

Non-HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE choices are Askar (5) aurum (7) Chiv(1) ecphoria (1) White talthum (2) attillas (1) rose strap (4). Nag is either gunna have to use a body, the talthum, the strap or both chiv and ecphoria anyways.

Algol will need either aurum body + probably the ring but maybe chain or 3 items. Well and if you got pocket books maybe store tp attack food

Nag GS vs Algol GS 6-hit build is basically fire bomblet vs pcc/A.Torque/Tor ring.

Nag loses 6att/6acc(-2acc due to sword), but gains 14att.
Algol will lose 8~9acc or 5~6acc/4att

So Nag has an increase of 6~7att and 14 acc over Algol during TP phase vs w/e boost the delay gives it. On exp mobs I doubt the att from Nag would do anything ws wise thats noticeable, on HNMs defensive wise mobs, most likely it might.

@Dasva, realistically, you dont want to drop the acc from hauby/Ebody for Aurum for a hit build.

As far as food goes, then you lose out on benefit from pizza if you choose to go food for stp route.

I don't like pizza. Attack cap is way low like 50 and no +str or other stats. While you don't get the acc http://www.ffxiah.com/item.php?id=5211 gives more attack/str as well as the store tp. Though I'd like to meet the person that can full time that in pts lol

If your acc is uncapped, pizza trumps just about everything else tbh. Attack+55 on the +1 so you have about (uncapped enough to get a good use of the acc, not like if you're at 90% or something). As for the no other stats asisde from the atacck and acc, not rly true at all. W/ all the extra acc you can make diff gear swaps that you wouldn't have made otherwise like ace's for turban and acc ring for blitz, ect.

Same could be said about using sushi over pizza if acc still not capped though lol

As far as 2handers go though, pizza+1 pretty much covers you in 95% of the game content.