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Lehko vs. Cornelia vs. Ephramad
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 953
By Asura.Melliny 2026-03-09 14:26:47
Accuracy requirements for events almost always fall into one of two categories
1. Easily capped via standard gear; Generally no higher than 1200-1250 needed. Nowadays most end game sets have 1350-1400 with some jobs closer to 1500.
2. Accuracy requirements that are so high your best bet is to have your bard sing a madrigal (or two) to hit it
The accuracy on cornelia's and ephramaud's isn't the point of this discussion. It's just an afterthought.
Quote: When buffed by a party, a well geared RDM becomes a monster of a DD. If RDM had more PDL, you would regularly see RDMs out damage dedicated DDs. It's like one or two FFXI intern incidents away from just being God. Trust and believe that more PDL gear on it would pay dividends.
I have seen red mage's do astonishingly high dps in limbus. This man speaks true.
Quote: Honestly, lowering mob level to 119 saves maybe 3 minutes. I did this time comparison of 119 vs 130. I dont know how much time you'd save dropping from 135 to 128, but I'd be willing to bet its a double digit number when counted in seconds. Half the time spent climbing is running from portal to portal and fighting with access to port up.
This is a side discussion but it's also true. I've done parties that lowered their Ilvl by a small amount. It's never worth it. Either go I135 or I119. The in between's are a waste.
Quote: You boost attack and lower enemy defense whenever possible.
Depends on the event. If we're talking Oddy T3 nms then sure. If we're talking trash mob farming in limbus or seg farms then no. Those mobs are dying so fast that you're not stacking debuffs all the time. Some groups will have a geo, while others won't. Sometimes the mobs get dia'd, but usually they're dead long before anyone has a chance. Almost nobody EVER casts dia on the first few floors of seg farm mobs and rarely the latter, and I'd wager the same is true for most of limbus too. The most likely mobs to be dia'd are the ones the rdm is fighting directly, not the ones the other dd's are soloing.
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 Asura.Sechs
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 11186
By Asura.Sechs 2026-03-09 14:49:55
So you're concerned over two seconds per floor It's a bit more than that, I forgot to account for the global cast cooldown.
Regardless of that though, I'm in no way concerned at all!
 Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10405
By Asura.Saevel 2026-03-09 15:19:16
Depends on the event. If we're talking Oddy T3 nms then sure. If we're talking trash mob farming in limbus or seg farms then no. Those mobs are dying so fast that you're not stacking debuffs all the time. Some groups will have a geo, while others won't. Sometimes the mobs get dia'd, but usually they're dead long before anyone has a chance. Almost nobody EVER casts dia on the first few floors of seg farm mobs and rarely the latter, and I'd wager the same is true for most of limbus too. The most likely mobs to be dia'd are the ones the rdm is fighting directly, not the ones the other dd's are soloing.
No, you will stop and apply max debuffs to every monster I target so that I can feel like I'm playing optimally.....
 Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-03-09 15:28:06
But my experience with those that do go regularly is that they lower the level of the mobs to 128 or less to make climbs faster by giving the mobs less HP and stats. Sometimes just 119 to get the climbs for the week in. Honestly, lowering mob level to 119 saves maybe 3 minutes. I did this time comparison of 119 vs 130. I dont know how much time you'd save dropping from 135 to 128, but I'd be willing to bet its a double digit number when counted in seconds. Half the time spent climbing is running from portal to portal and fighting with access to port up.
The exception to this is if you lack an ideal party setup. I joined a PUG Apollyon last Saturday night for 119, marketed as a "fast 119 clear for box". They didn't have a COR, and the jobs were 2 NIN as DD (one wasn't properly geared), RDM (a good DD one here) GEO (non idris) BRD (didnt SVCC entire fight) WHM. It took just about the same amount of time as I normally could do it in a good 135 setup with ideal buffs/jobs, but it was better than nothing. So I think the takeaway is that groups who are geared for it and have the proper setup/buffs should always 135, unless the party is less-than-ideal, than lowering the Content Level makes sense. It would have taken forever for us to clear 135.
Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
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Posts: 499
By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2026-03-09 15:28:25
Best kill speed is not always best parse.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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Posts: 7135
By Carbuncle.Nynja 2026-03-09 15:32:58
The exception to this is if you lack an ideal party setup. YouTube Video Placeholder
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Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 16705
By Asura.Vyre 2026-03-09 15:34:30
Accuracy requirements for events almost always fall into one of two categories
1. Easily capped via standard gear; Generally no higher than 1200-1250 needed. Nowadays most end game sets have 1350-1400 with some jobs closer to 1500.
2. Accuracy requirements that are so high your best bet is to have your bard sing a madrigal (or two) to hit it
The accuracy on cornelia's and ephramaud's isn't the point of this discussion. It's just an afterthought.
They're not an after thought for me. The point of the discussion is the rings in total, and trying to hammer it down to just WS sets onry is disingenuousness at its finest.
1. What content is that? I know Gaol requirements are fairly low, even at V25, but stuff like Sortie Basement or Dyna D Wave 3 require those higher values + accuracy buffs, even evasion debuffs. Accuracy's still really relevant. Plus partial and full dispels/debuffs happen, so you will spend time without buffs in a lot of fights(or with debuffs that counteract your buffs, which the removal of is sometimes not an option), too.
2. Went over in 1, so I'll say here that the TP Bonus offhands are part of the meta, and tend to require extra accuracy to not be offsetting their gains by lowering your WS frequency from missing too much with offhand swings. An extra 12 to 17 accuracy in a single slot is pretty nice imo.
3. For newer players who don't have RP'd gear or instant access to fully reforged +3s/+4s AF/R/Empy, the Accuracy can be quite the boon while progressing(not too mention carries to Ou to get Regal Rings are not an everyday thing). As stated before, it's even a boon for solo players with Trusts given trust behavior in relation to attack buffs vs. accuracy buffs, since Trusts don't read WSacc nor player intent.
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By Asura.Melliny 2026-03-09 15:42:12
Quote: They're not an after thought for me. The point of the discussion is the rings in total, and trying to hammer it down to just WS sets onry is disingenuousness at its finest.
The discussion is primarily focused on the benefits of ephramaud's PDL versus cornelia's 10 WSD. The 7 accuracy difference between the two rings is not a highlight of the discussion here. Especially with the mention that the first hit of all weaponskills receives a 100 accuracy bonus. It was already mentioned that ephramaud's is a weaponskill ring just as much as cornelia's ring is. You're probably better off wearing a tp gain ring for the tp phase.
Quote: 1. What content is that? I know Gaol requirements are fairly low, even at V25, but stuff like Sortie Basement or Dyna D Wave 3 require those higher values + accuracy buffs, even evasion debuffs.
And you just proved my point. If you're farming trash mobs in limbus or segment farming you're probably capped on accuracy. If you're fighting F and H basement bosses or wave 3 dyna NMs you need the madrigal. That's exactly what I said. The accuracy breakpoints are either low enough to cap naturally or so high you need to adjust your support buffs to accomodate. There is almost no in between. Seg farm and limbus is category 1, while basement bosses and wave 3 nms are category 2. We're talking 7 accuracy here. It exists yes. But it's not the reason you would choose one ring over the other. There is no world where you switch from one ring to the other because of "accuracy issues". You know this just as well as I do.
Asura.Saevel
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 10405
By Asura.Saevel 2026-03-09 15:55:56
Quetzalcoatl.Jakey said: »Best kill speed is not always best parse.
Lies!
/s
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Game: FFXI
Posts: 560
By Asura.Clintbeastwood 2026-03-09 16:07:03
Looks like just another case of our localization team doing its finest work. How you manage to get 10 out of 20 though is beyond me.
Quote: No DRG for party, camp spot site with 30 dmg, but is it for 20 like 30 dmg when you no hit be it for dd, for 30 dmg instead? or half is 10 for 20 dmg?
Oh wait, never mind. They must be using AI to do all the translation work now. That's how you get 10 from 20. (it's probably more likely than you think)
God I miss the Allakhazam forum days lol
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サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 953
By Asura.Melliny 2026-03-09 16:20:36
Quote: God I miss the Allakhazam forum days lol
Yeah, but that whole thing is only true if a ranger shoots.
サーバ: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 816
By Asura.Dexprozius 2026-03-09 16:32:16
Trying to get people to agree on Cornelias VS Ephramads is equivalent to asking Democrats and Republicans to vote for the same candidate...
Also, FWIW, and I'm sure the same folks will shake their fingers and say "Lolol what content is that even relevant in"....
But yes Ephramad's is best for accuracy sets unironically. Particularly useful for ranged acc toggles, or master trial fights where the loss of 6 STP isnt as important as a gain in 20 acc+
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By syllreve 2026-03-09 16:38:54
The PDL on it is doing absolutely nothing, sure... but the ring itself isnt doing "Absolutely Nothing". In the context of the discussion, that ring slot is frequently taken by regal ring.
The difference between Regal and Ephramad's is the 10 PDL, which is why the discussion revolves around that.
Regal Ring isn't all jobs equippable.
I'd also argue that most party compositions have access to Dia II. In reality it's usually 5% def down and +55 ATT (RDM) vs 20-25% def down and +20% ATT (BLU). Not to mention that BLU could drop /DRG for /WAR without losing dual wield to add Berserk and Warcry. BLU is typically using Tizona, and RDM naegling; so while they will get that +20% from triumphant roar, RDM would get a comparable atk% boost from naegling's passive so it's not so wide a difference on that front.
The discussion is primarily focused on the benefits of ephramaud's PDL versus cornelia's 10 WSD. The 7 accuracy difference between the two rings is not a highlight of the discussion here. Especially with the mention that the first hit of all weaponskills receives a 100 accuracy bonus. It was already mentioned that ephramaud's is a weaponskill ring just as much as cornelia's ring is. You're probably better off wearing a tp gain ring for the tp phase. That's sort of the point; if the benefits of 10 wsd vs 10 pdl are warranting this much discussion, then looking for secondary benefits matter as a discussion point that may sway your decision one way or the other.
Cornelia's only ever has value during WS, while Ephramad's is valuable for WS and also has the highest Acc of any ring in the game, providing value where Cornelia's has none, especially for jobs that are acc starved, or are excluded from better gear, or both.
And you just proved my point. If you're farming trash mobs in limbus or segment farming you're probably capped on accuracy. If you're fighting F and H basement bosses or wave 3 dyna NMs you need the madrigal. That's exactly what I said. His point was you need Madrigal/Distract, AND to put more acc in to your TP set, not one or the other.
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Asura.Vyre
Forum Moderator
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Posts: 16705
By Asura.Vyre 2026-03-09 16:54:42
Quote: They're not an after thought for me. The point of the discussion is the rings in total, and trying to hammer it down to just WS sets onry is disingenuousness at its finest.
The discussion is primarily focused on the benefits of ephramaud's PDL versus cornelia's 10 WSD. The 7 accuracy difference between the two rings is not a highlight of the discussion here. Especially with the mention that the first hit of all weaponskills receives a 100 accuracy bonus. It was already mentioned that ephramaud's is a weaponskill ring just as much as cornelia's ring is. You're probably better off wearing a tp gain ring for the tp phase.
Quote: 1. What content is that? I know Gaol requirements are fairly low, even at V25, but stuff like Sortie Basement or Dyna D Wave 3 require those higher values + accuracy buffs, even evasion debuffs.
And you just proved my point. If you're farming trash mobs in limbus or segment farming you're probably capped on accuracy. If you're fighting F and H basement bosses or wave 3 dyna NMs you need the madrigal. That's exactly what I said. The accuracy breakpoints are either low enough to cap naturally or so high you need to adjust your support buffs to accomodate. There is almost no in between. Seg farm and limbus is category 1, while basement bosses and wave 3 nms are category 2. We're talking 7 accuracy here. It exists yes. But it's not the reason you would choose one ring over the other. There is no world where you switch from one ring to the other because of "accuracy issues". You know this just as well as I do. It was mentioned and I disagreed. I still do. Taking the stance that my disagreement is invalid is your prerogative I guess, but all you're really doing is slanting the field in favor of Cornelia's on a whim because you don't see value in Ephramad's in TP set. White damage exists and has value. Accuracy in TP also has value. You can constantly see tons of players TP sets featuring un-RP'd TP set pieces, their TP sets in accuracy deficit from lack of progression.
And see, you did a very manipulative persuasion tactic here. You first discounted the argument I made, as if you are an authority. You are not. Reality does not disappear because you will it. Ephramad's has merit in TP sets, so it is also competing for accuracy vs. other accuracy options in TP sets too. What I was driving at, when I, "proved your point" was that there are situations where you do not have capped accuracy and you want more of it. Your buffs and debuffs are not guaranteed, note that this is the same argument that you and others are making against PDL. Having more accuracy serves you in the right situations. In WS set with player driven buffs, sure, that 7acc isn't make or break, but it is still part of the discussion, since you know, so many people were quick to chest thump that Cornelia's had the same accuracy. There is a difference in having enough accuracy for it to not matter and not having the same value. And, also, at very high levels a lot of the DD jobs have self accuracy buffs and food to fall back on, and the Madrigal is actually mostly needed for the supports and Naegling users who are using it with an E or D in Sword skill, the TP bonus offhands, and the Kraken Clubs.
By Dodik 2026-03-09 17:05:03
Of course the acc matters. Still, no one should be basing choosing it over the other rings "for the accuracy".
That's like choosing to use a kclub "for the mewing sounds". Now wait a minute..
Anyway, TP sets need more accuracy for things like thief mobs, thief NMs, and non-ilvl weapons.
If you need it, you know. But really look for other options than a TVR ring if all you need is accuracy.
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By Shichishito 2026-03-09 17:05:32
BLU is typically using Tizona, and RDM naegling; so while they will get that +20% from triumphant roar Nature's Mediation, RDM would get a comparable atk% boost from naegling's passive so it's not so wide a difference on that front.  If a situation arises where the extra ATT from naegling was better due to more PDL options available for BLU they could always switch.
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By Asura.Dexprozius 2026-03-09 17:07:20
BLU is typically using Tizona, and RDM naegling; so while they will get that +20% from triumphant roar Nature's Mediation, RDM would get a comparable atk% boost from naegling's passive so it's not so wide a difference on that front. If a situation arises where the extra ATT from naegling was better due to more PDL options available for BLU they could always switch.
Ah yes, the classic "Why use Tizona, I have Tizona at home"
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Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
サーバ: Quetzalcoatl
Game: FFXI
Posts: 499
By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2026-03-09 17:08:54
Don't forget K-club has lots of great lockstyle options you can have fun animations or an assortment of funny sounds when you use it.
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Lakshmi.Buukki
By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-03-09 17:15:41
Ephramad's has merit in TP sets, so it is also competing for accuracy vs. other accuracy options in TP sets too
You can make the argument that Ephramad's ring is also the best white damage ring, too. It has PDL and attack, so if you are looking to beef up your white damage and are at attack cap, the ring should be BIS for that purpose (If you are not at attack cap, the 30 attack still benefits as well). I know I have it in my full DPS Glassy set on DRK (which I almost never toggle to unless I am 100% certain the opponent can never attack me back or I'm not in any danger of dying).
By Shichishito 2026-03-09 17:21:30
I mean there has to be a weak point to RDM because I've got called out for calling it OP in the past. One argument typically is RDM has lackluster ATT options so it deserves to be OP on other fronts.
Now I'm getting briefed that RDM is close or on par with BLU in the ATT department, so which is it?
This is a debate I keep seeing repeated, so I figured why not dedicate a thread to it?
I'll admit that I’ve been a Lehko user for a long time. I never really put much thought into changing it until this week when I started reading other players’ opinions.
From my personal perspective, I’m starting to feel like I’m not getting as much from Lehko anymore. I play DRK, RUN, DNC, COR, RDM, THF, and BST, so Cornelia might help me more overall.
Ephramad for DRK and DNC in high buff situations is also very tempting though. Those are my main damage jobs at the moment. I am lacking augments on Nyame, but am actively working on that with my group every week.
Of course, I know I could just pick one, test it out, and swap later if I don’t like it. At the same time, I’d rather pick one, adjust my sets around it, and not have to revisit the decision again for a long time.
From what I’ve gathered from reading other posts:
Lehko
Best if you are supremely geared and hitting 99999s almost all the time. It may also be better for players who don’t often join party setups with top tier buffs and debuffs.
Cornelia
Benefits most jobs in most situations due to the WS damage, but it still depends on the job. Magic WS on COR, for example, benefit a lot from this.
There’s also less to think about with Cornelia. Might be more appealing if you are lacking augmented Nyame.
Ephramad
Clearly excels when attack is capped, but the key is actually knowing when that is happening. The top players using this will usually have a very good understanding of their buffs and will maintain separate sets for attack capped and uncapped situations.
A lot of players aren’t willing to go that far. It may be stronger, but knowing exactly when to use it can turn some people off.
I also read something earlier about MNK, WAR, and BLU benefiting because they lack PDL options from other sources, but I can’t remember where I saw that.
In the end, I don’t think this should be about ganging up on people for choosing one over the others. The amount of debate around them tells me SE probably succeeded in making all three viable, which is a good thing. Having options is great.
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