Onion Sword III Worth It?

They literally just came out and I didn't choose it because I still see no good arguments for doing so.

I'm not even that interested in sheol C where I'll concur it matters little, though that is moving the goalposts from "optimal".

On Kalunga I'm not convinced. Others can prove it in practice.

Ok I admit that I never knew this ? I guess I conflated not being on Naegling with not having sword skill, so didn't get Naegling because all the other jobs on it have native sword skill. I'm still not convinced but I'm really looking forward to the video.

It appears SE knew DNC would use nothing else if they put it on Naegling then, but didn't care about DRG and other jobs they ruined.

Full clearing ody C can be done with MANY comps the one I run with is war cor cor brd rdm whm melts everything. Don't need any special weapon swaps either just spam savage.

Yes but if we were talking absolute fastest and most reliable there is an objective answer, which is what I take optimal to mean.

SCH is always better than WHM because of Embrava though, and more buffs for Naegling attack+

Maletaru the biggest BSer bringing up fresh BS to the table.

Again with the "theorical super hero" argument. War will have a kill count much higher than DNC on segfarm. War Warcries are absolutely amazing for the group. You don't need to agree with facts, since you usually don't since you are a joke.



Lol.. Seriously? Yo, DNC can you box-step this mob for me rq? Also, I am dying, can you heal me? Chad war will murder 3-4 mobs with retaliation up before you need to heal them. Also, why in you taru-sized head you think DNC needs to heal in segfarm? Is your healer running Silmaril?


This is not the point. I don't mind bringing someone on DNC even at the cost of losing a few segs. I wouldn't even care if the DNC didn't have Onion Sword. Just come and do whatever. Just don't pretend DNC and War are on the same level when it comes to Oddy and Shaol cause War will outparse DNC even on Xevioso.

But if you just do that, you are not special, according to FFXI-AH wizards, you have to overcomplicate the *** out of everything to show that you are better than others.

It's like bringing WAR to Aminon, a fight where DNC REALLLY SHINES. Are you *** stupid?

I disagree with this, TBH. WHM heals have so much benefit. Cureskin is a God-sent for wars who want to go aggressive with retaliation.

WHM vs SCH warrants different playstyles. With SCH you can isolate yourself more. With WHM you can stick with the group and just run into the middle of a pack of mobs with retaliation up and your WHM wont let you die.

You said KALUNGA, then I replied:


Then you said:


Are you stupid? We're discussing Kalunga, who isn't available in seg farms. When fighting Kalunga, you're on the same mob, and there aren't 3-4 mobs to murder with retaliation.

I do love how the same clowns that jump on and mob people if they suggest anything slightly less than absolutely optimal, down to a few seconds. e.g. Maletaru losing his ***when I suggested I do 4 pre-songs in Ody C instead of 2 songs and 2 presongs then overwrite the presongs even though it loses 0 actual time. For the sake of being pedantic, argumentative, and contradictory they now argue for FAR MORE SIGNIFICANTLY suboptimal choices. This is nothing about optimal or feasible, just about being argumentative for Maletaru, Simonses, and probably Thorny here.

Why is overkilling Kalunga by 20k relevant? It's because you swapped your argument to segfarm under the table to make a point, got caught and used Deflectaga VI?

Keep deflecting. Keep pretending that DNC, who loses to WAR even on a piercing Shaol fight, is going to outperform WAR on Kalunga. LOL.

Maybe they meant DNC+WAR for Kalunga instead of WAR+BLU?
Not arguing for DNC BLU? idk

Maletaru is the poorman's Simonsess. Simonless uses logic and arrives a practical conclusions.

Maletaru is an LLM that was trained on Simonless replies, but was given a Pentium III CPU processor instead of a NVIDIA super cluster.

Again, because of YOUR FRAMING.

You mentioned seg farms, I responded. You mentioned Kalunga, I responded about Kalunga.

Maybe you shouldn't have mentioned two different events back-to-back if you didn't want me talking about two different events back-to-back? WTF am I the problem here?

No *** ***. Who has ever mentioned DNC outparsing a WAR? Please quote it.

Wait, you engaged with my comment that listed DNC and WAR in Shaeol and Segfarm, got confused, and is blaming me?

Which part was difficult to you? Cause my argument is pretty simple. On segfarm, WAR will outperform DNC on kill-count (to prevent you from using the overflow argument). On Shaol WAR will outperform DNC even on piercing fights.

What's your argument here? That DNCs will kill more mobs than WAR in segfarm, or DNC can outperform WAR in Shaol bosses?

You see how stupid you are, dude? Take the time to read people's post before jumping to conclusion. He never even mentioned parse in the post you are replying to...

Also, why would I even attempt to replace BLU, a job that's already lagging behind? BLU is native slashing damage and brings a whole lot to the table. Much more than DNC.

Jesus. ***. Christ. You are so *** dense.

You say:
I said:
To help you out here, this means: Overkilling by 20k (a WAR doing 80k on floor 1 mobs) isn't the only way of contributing. I gave an example of how you can contribute in ways other than damage, Chocobo Jig 2. Since there is running in Odyssey Sheol C, Chocobo Jig contributes to the entire team's progress by helping them move faster between packs.

The next part of your well-organized and distinct list, which I responded to in separate parts for ease of reading. You said:
Clearly talking about a DIFFERENT scenario, this time Kalunga. I understood this, so I responded with:

This is, once again, addressing your question. You say "Why would you try to use it against Kalunga?" and I gave you reasons why you would add DNC to a Kalunga fight: namely that they give DEF down and Haste Samba (for WAR, BRD, COR, and themselves), and they can cure the party. This is all about DNC on Kalunga, since that's what you asked about.

I was never even remotely confused about anything. I was pointing out how in your later post, you are extremely confused. I responded about two distinct things, in order, with quotes, and then you somehow came up with this:

If you reply to a comment putting DNC vs WAR and you list the benefits of having a DNC, you are at the same time arguing how DNC can be more beneficial or comparable to WAR.

For Shaol the argument, again, was DNC vs WAR not DNC and WAR. And BLU offers many more benefits than DNC. Mighty Guards, heals and a bunch others. Has native slashing damage.

I never stated that DNCs are useless in segfarm or any other event. My argument is that you shouldn't replace a WAR for a DNC based on performance argument because that's just stupid.

Your silly argument, which in my opinion is just you using Deflectaga VI, can be applied to all other jobs. Why not bring Geo instead of DNC? Geo can increase attack, defense, defense down mobs, etc. Hell, bring SMN...

The DPS check isn't really an issue on Kalunga arguably, there are 7-8 minute clear videos on YouTube. So the defense down increasing WARs damage might just make them take hate faster/more and not really help? If you wanted super safe mode you could take RDM or 2nd tank (PLD or RUN depending what first is) too? DNC seems to be neither the safest or fastest option, hence not "optimal"?

So much passion in this thread. Here's my take on all this.

Fast blade II is a good weaponskill, but it performs better on weaker mobs than high level nms. It's a multi hit fTP transfer weaponskill with significant TP scaling, so it's basically a monk weaponskill and you should gear for it like you would a monk weaponskill. You still use nyame, but accessories are better off being multi hit focused than wsd focused, and because WSD only affects the first hit nyame has significantly less impact on its damage numbers than on savage blade.

Content wise, it's fine to bring dancer to seg farms with. Personally I would still just bring warrior myself, and I am one of the dancers around the forms here. I think warrior just offers way more in seg farms than dancer, even when dancer can use slashing. But I wouldn't knock anyone for taking fast blade II to seg farms. Seg farms is casual content nowadays. It's not a big deal either way.

As for kalunga, I know someone who took onion sword II to V25 kalunga already. Fast blade II numbers were very unimpressive. Naegling gives you an attack bonus for every buff you get, and that's really important on hard fights like Kalunga, especially on low attack jobs like dancer. Couple that with my opening statement about fast blade II's mechanics and you can make the judgment yourself on the viability. Dancer brings a lot of utility to the fight, so you're safer with a dancer over a warrior, but the kill speed will dramatically go down if you take out a higher DPS job for a dancer, and when you get to the last part of the fight it's about burning him down before Lahar spam cripples you.

Personally, I wouldn't want to bring dancer to kalunga with the sword just because it's going to complicate the final push. Lower vengences I can see it, but on V25 you need all the damage you can get to overcome double add regen with lahar going off. I wouldn't trust that role to anything but a warrior with mighty strikes up. WHM, Geo, Cor, Brd, and Paladin (or rune) are already hard locked into place, and I can't fathom losing the warrior's zerg for a dancer would ever be a good idea.

Also, MPU gandring gives dancer a fusion weaponskill. Ruthless to ruthless is fusion, and a third ruthless makes light. So all in all, I think onion sword is a novel addition to dancer's arsenal. I don't think it really changes much about how you approach content though.

This entire thread is just people who didn't get onion sword trying to justify to themselves that they aren't missing out on anything. Unfortunately, you are going to miss out on something; you don't get all of them. People with onion sword miss out on long warcrys or aoe utsu. Just relax and be happy with your choice, it's not as bad as picking an earring besides suppanomimi.

I get the subjective arguments about segments. However, if you can't understand why DNC is a strong option for Kalunga you do not understand the game. Sorry, not sorry.

I don't understand this discussion. Did you not literally say this:You asked why somebody would try to use it, and then someone came along and provided a handful of compelling reasons.

I understand perfectly why dancer is a strong option for kalunga. Dancers cures are amazing, and it's samba and steps are a big help. I've played dancer more than any other job the past 2 years so I'm fully aware of what it brings to the table. I think on lower vengences it's probably the best choice. I only question its efficacy on V25 for the final push. Fast blade II does mediocre damage on V25 and when you get to the lahar spam double add regen final zerg push, that's going to impact your ability to close out the fight. You lose warrior's mighty strikes zerg if you swap them out for dancer. It's a real consideration.

You are absolutely wrong. Just last night I was trying to convince shadowmeld to get it because I think it's useful. It's probably the better choice for weapons. I just don't think that it will allow a DNC to substitute other slashing damage jobs like BLU, War, same etc.

It's a very valid point. If I wasn't o PLD 99% of the time I would have picked Onion...

Sort of like the attack bonus granted by *checks notes* 23% defense down? You have 20.69% from dia2/light shot, 25% from shell crusher.

54.31% remaining, reducing that to 31.31% is a gain of 73.4% attack. It also effects the entire party. Throw in that your members are single wielded at 67% haste and haste samba bumps that to 77% (43.4% gain in attack speed). The job is incredibly strong in this circumstance.

The original discussion was DNC vs War, my dude. Don't get confused by Maletaru jumping to conclusions. If you are bringing DNC, you are replacing war or BLU...

Maletaru never said: because DNC boxstep and haste samba can outperform whatever BLU brings to the table. He just listed two benefits without going over the tardeoffs.

I mean, on one hand, you're right that he didn't explain it. On the other hand, if you don't understand how haste and defense are calculated or how much potential impact DNCs have.. why comment on DNC in the first place?

Why shell crusher ? You'd use armor break.

They're the same defense down, one of your mages can do shell crusher at less cost to damage than having your primary DPS do it.

tradeoffs.

Mell reports her experience actually trying to make dnc onion work and you throw paper math at her? Pathetic! BTW, mell is one of (if not) the best DNC out there. Of course she tried to make it work. But experience is better than paper. Bring a dnc to a kalunga fight and show us how you did.


Likewise, if you don't know how BLU and WAR work why join the conversation? I do know how haste samba and box-step works, but I know how BLU and WAR work as well so I know how, in Kalunga, BLU and WAR will outperform whatever DNC bring to the table. You are not soloing KALUNGA, for you to bring DNC one of those two jobs will have to sit out.