How Could SE Realistically Improve Modern FFXI?

-If you're near a breakpoint, otherwise 2% damage is irrelevant
-You can't just magically add extra damage from nowhere
-Not all Gaol fights are 2 KI, the majority aren't
-You think groups do 2% of the mob's HP in 2~3 minutes?

As usual, probably best if you don't talk about things you don't know WTF you're talking about

To be fair, as perma Richybard to most things, I've gotten to the point of you know when I'm singing, if you see me singing and decide to run off to chase a butterfly like you're a 5 year old kid playing soccer, enjoy your missed buff. Also, if I'm buffing the backline players (ie ballads or w/e) and you come running in, that's also not on me.

I also chuckle that my main is usually what people do for alts or their pocket characters. Doots and Cooking

As per usual you don't understand the meaning of words. The difference between "nice to have" and "need".

ALL gaol fights are 3 KI, you want them to be 1 KI, this is not a need.

A need is you're coming up short on ki 3, and the answer is be better on ki 1 or 2, not "must have carn"

And no, you don't "need" to do 9 boss sortie either.

you get two levels of bard from me

Bard you wish was in your main group, A godsend who does everything to the point of perfection. swaps weapons for the predicaments they encounter. Gospels are sung to the highest praise.

or

Bard too high to remember who is the Pld and Whm is so looks at the mp and prays (sorry dark knights,blus) while attempting to savage blade Lamias

I feel like this kind of proves my original point, so thanks?

If you are requiring your group to use 3 moglophone IIs per attempt at Kalunga because you don't have a Carn, then um...your inadequacies are costing the group time, segments, etc.

Even then, you're still making the third KI fight (if that's the one with BRD in it) worse. What if now in the third KI fight, you need the full 15 minutes of SV songs? You still *** your team over. You can't "make up" for lost damage on a single KI by doing more damage in another KI because, and this may be surprising to you, you can do both.

Also: just because something isn't required, doesn't mean you aren't reducing your team's chances of winning a fight by your lack of gear. What if you get an attack down aura on Arebati? Now you just turned that potentially winnable fight into a loss because your SV songs wore off. Sure, you can go again and maybe not get attack down the next time...that doesn't change the fact that your lack of a carn just lost the team a fight, cost everyone segments and time.

The bar shouldn't be "is it theoretically possible under the best circumstances, with the best luck, with everyone else carrying their weight and mine, with perfectly optimal play from 6 extremely geared and skilled players, can we win this fight?"

I definitely don't have a solution to this problem, but it's not one I'm actively trying to solve either. Occasionally, I'll help some rando farm a pulse weapon or unity mobs to make myself feel good, but the only content I regularly do is sortie and dyna, both with my LS.

I think this has been mentioned in other threads, but I think you could somewhat address this problem by making endgame currencies (galli, segments, etc.,) come from doing older content with some incentive on helping newer players. Maybe a RoE or something. I think this is one of the few systems implemented in XIV that works well, first-time bonus'. Probably wasted effort on XI considering its age and the lack of new players on pretty much any server besides Asura/Bahamut/Odin.

Your desire to be an efficiency nazi doesn't change the meaning of words.

OK. What if 3 people don't build "necessary" things, and now you can no longer kill the boss. Are they necessary now? Which one is necessary?

It's absolutely stupid to suggest that an item isn't necessary because technically you can just spend 3x as many phones, 3x as much time, and hope for 5 free WC6 in a row and you could win so it's TECHNICALLY not necessary.

You can type "what if" "what about" "but why" until your fingers bleed, it's not going to make the word have a different meaning.

Qualifiers change context.

I need it to do this, this specific way, in this amount of time. It can't be done as I have described, in my specific set of criteria, without it.

Or; To be as efficient as possible, it is required. Efficiency itself is not required.

Sure, and technically you don't need a parachute to jump out of a plane. I don't think most people would say that taking a parachute when skydiving is just for efficiency. Arguing that Sheol Gaol V25s are killable without Carnwenhan on your BRD is the same thing. Sure, there have been people who have survived falling out of a plane without a parachute. If you have millions of dollars, a support crew, and a massive ***-off net, you can jump out of a plane and safely make it to the ground without one. But under normal circumstances, for normal people, it's expected that if you go skydiving you should probably have a parachute.

See also: you don't need ropes to climb El Capitan in Yosemite, don't need a life vest to go white water rafting etc. etc.

I roll 6 wildcards in a row, Your shorty is a hoe, I am a V25 pro,You already know

Now we doing an Efficiency check, while your group does ***, does it make you sick?

Your moogle gets more action than you, Ambu is the only thing you can do. Improve ffxi? Naaa All we can do is wait on FFXI Part 2

Eiryl you're being anal and you know it. Let's put this into context. While on Kalunga you CAN spend three key items, you can only bring corsair, bard, and Geo to one of them. Without the combined buffs from all three there's no way in hell you're doing anything meaningful against that dino on higher Vengence levels. The only meaningful damage you can get out of a second key item on him is to bring Rune and beastmaster on the first KI and slug him to knock off an extra 10% at the start. There are no viable "third party" options for an added key item.

I've fought V25 Ngai and brought him down to less than 5% more times than than I care to remember before we finally got our first win. Any time that happened we warped out, because once the main party setup has been used- Whm, Monk, War, Brd, Igeo, Cor NOTHING in the remaining job combos is capable of finishing the job. You will enter with his HP at 5% and do so little damage he'll just regenerate to full. This goes for every other T3 too. You aren't killing Xevioso without buffed to the teeth piercing dds and a ***ton of healing. Only the main setup can do the trick. You aren't killing Ongo without the proper magic burst setup. Once the rune, blm, sch, geo, brd, and cor are out of the equation you're ***. On V25 it's common to do a 2 KI setup as we do with arrebati to soften him up, so again... bst, pld, rdm, blu, smn just to soften him up a little.

These Oddy fights are very rigid. And on higher vengences there is absolutely no room for experimentation with the job setup. You either have the correct jobs for the fight or you have zero chance of winning. "3 KI wins" are a pipe dream. There is nothing meaningful a 3rd team can do in any of these fights because the job selection and fight mechanics of each mandate a specific damage type, a ***ton of buffs, and a lot of healing.

Correct is correct.

If you wanna use playground logic then sure. We can be the little kids arguing about silly nonsense back and forth. "Well I'll just go Infinity Plus TWO!! so there!! NO!! I'll go Infinity plus THREE!! I WIN!!"

You're free to take random jobs to the lower tier vengences. V5, 10, and 15 can be easily cleared with a lot of unoptimized stuff and random off jobs. But if you want to WIN the highest vengence fights, which are the ones people actually care about, then you MUST bring the correct jobs and have them optimally geared. There is only one main group strategy that can win the fight on any of these tier 3 Oddy nms. There is no alternative. Arguing semantics will not change that.

Just a reminder that Eiryl doesnt do Odyssey, he has no idea what the *** he's talking about.

All 22 jobs have access to clubs and staves, there are more buffers than geo cor brd, you couldve done ki one with an extra 5% instead of forcing yourself to fail repeatedly.

A pup overdrive, staffdrg, clubrdm, clubdnc

Also, you had cor, you had the full 15 minutes of soul voice already. Carn added nothing.

Same thing for any other boss. You can use (almost) all 22 jobs on any 25. Ongo being the exception, thats already "easily" done in 3 KI and carn adds nothing

(*)Bumba of course the literal only winning strat being kaustra, where again carn adds nothing

COR & DNC have 0 staff skill and 0 club skill.


Huge difference between 8% attack from Ifrit and SV songs/Chaos/Fury, especially against V25 T3 mobs.


The 5% from 100 -> 95 is nothing like the 5% from 5% - 0%, because of the 2 adds and the massive regen, plus the lower threshold for mobs using TP moves.


As I just finished saying, DNC has 0 club skill. PUP overdrive does ***damage on pretty much every T3 V25. Club RDM could be viable if you have a tank and a healer, and a source of "don't get *** murdered by him".


Only if he rolled a 5 or 6. "Let's just hope we get a 5 or 6 WC" is not a strategy you go into the hardest fights in the game with (except Bumba lulz). Especially when there's an alternative where a single person makes a single item.

The fact that you don't understand these things is very clear evidence that you have no experience with Gaol.

Does dnc have zero club skill, then don't use dnc. ~18 options then. You got blu and melee blm

5% is 5% be it 5-0, 50-45 or 100-95

"only if" doesn't change the meaning of words.

Doing 100-95 on ki 1 then starting "the good party" 5% lower means winning if "the good party" can only get 95%

If they still couldn't win, use KI 2 to kill an add like Ongo 3 ki

Eiryl, I almost never say something like this, but Nynja and Male are right. You really do need to stop talking now. You don't know WTF you're talking about nor what these fights are like. Do I need to remind you that every time an oddy NM uses its aura it becomes harder and harder to proc on subsequent uses, and that this strengthening of the aura carries over between key items? If you do what you suggest and bring


To V25 ngai the only thing you're going to accomplish is flailing around doing no damage while he uses Carcharian Verve 2 or 3 times. The first blue proc requires 3 weaponskills in unison once the red stagger window is up. The second proc requires 4. The third proc requires 5. After the third use he basically becomes unproccable. If you did that on KI1 then when you brought your main group on KI2 you would die horribly to his fetters because he would raise his aura for the 4th or 5th time and the aura strength would be so strong you could never drop it. Kalunga works the same way. 3 skillchains for the first blue proc, then 4, then 5, then 6...etc.

I doubt you'd even do 5% damage by the way. Ngais defenses are so high on V25 that without all the buffs you won't be breaking 3-4k weaponskills. Ngai has a LOT of HP. You don't even grasp what it is you're insinuating here. 5% HP is a LOT of damage you need to do. It's more than you can do without buffs on a bunch of sub par blunt jobs that were never meant to use blunt in the first place.

5% isn't 5%, though. 5% from 5-0 may be the same amount of HP, but when regen is active from 1-2 adds depending on fight, it might be 20-50% more damage dealt and considerably more damage sustained. A group that can get to 3% would not have won if they started at 95%, because the last 3% requires more combat time than the first 5%. On top of that, for many groups, the issue isn't necessarily the DPS check but the time staying alive from 40-0. Pregaming 5-10% might get you a little longer on songs, but it's not anywhere near a sure fix for that.

Plus, weaker groups might already be using the first run to help the second, and in that case the extra SV time is a straight gain and there's no compensatory mechanism.

Even if you think it would be literally impossible to 3 ki ngai (it's not)


Which is the point

If you trigger the aura multiple times while you're spending 10 min flailing around to do 5-10%, you've increased the difficulty of the next fight by more than you've helped it.

Add doesn't pop until 75%, so using KI2 to kill an add requires you can do 25% on KI1.

This too. V25 fights have multiple mechanics that make bringing an "off party" completely unviable. I mentioned the strengthening of the aura that carries from one KI to another, but the single and double regen is equally relevant. The double regen is a total *** to chew through. That's one of the biggest obstacles you face on V25, and starting 5% lower at the very beginning is a really small thing. The double add regen is equivalent to approximately 1-2% health regen every 30 seconds or so. After you wipe you can literally SEE his health regenerating. It's that visible because it's that significant.

Eiryl, you're arguing strategy with people who have fought these fights until we're blue in the face, and you have never stepped foot in a V25 fight yourself. You're just making yourself look like a fool now. For your own sake just stop.

I'm not going to go as far as to say bringing an off party is completely unviable, and I'd probably believe a strong group can win without carn or a successful wild card, especially for V25 Ngai/Kalunga/Xevioso. There are ways to get that value without paying for it (such as using ooze and being sure to wipe quickly to avoid any auras).

But, most groups that still need them aren't strong enough to breeze through these fights, and that extra time is valuable. It's one of the cases where I think it is reasonable to ask for it.

It has regen no matter what. (per the strategy where you hold adds)

Regen and 95% starting health is lower than regen and 100% starting health.
(and yes, 85% would be even lower, using ooze and doing 5% damage)

>>Opens wiki
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/Ngai


Ignorance isnt even an excuse, the information is right there. Read a book, or wiki in this case.

Now we're using Ooze against Ngai.

I think you're missing the point which has been repeated multiple times now.

All 5%s of Ngai are not the same. From 100 -> 75% you only have to do damage to him. From 75% -> 40% you have to damage his health but also overcome his regen. From 40% -> 0% you have to damage him while also overcoming double regen. This means that unless you 1-hit him from 5% -> 0% in a single attack, 5% -> 0% is, mathematically, more health than 100% -> 95%.

Do you get it yet?

aging like milk in this conversation.

Just give it up eiryl. You're only making yourself look worse here. Come back and argue with us once you've actually gotten some experience doing these fights on V25 yourself. If you can't grasp what we're telling you then go and see what they're like firsthand. Maybe then you'll understand.

Do you people read what you post.

Like real talk.

The process is identical. Its going to get the same regen at the same time every time. Adds will spawn at the same hp no matter the method.

5 million + regen is more than 4.75 million + the same *** regen.

If you couldnt do 5 million plus regen, starting lower puts it in your range. I mean *** grade school comprehension guys.

It doesn't matter if the starting hp is 10 million, 100 million, or 5 trillion. 5% less is the same 5% less.