Did Ff16 Flop?

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Did ff16 flop?
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 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-15 06:32:38  
More older people answered the poll for 14 than younger people that is fact.

Almost 70% of those who answered the poll for 14 would be old enough to have played the other games.
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2024-05-15 06:36:15  
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
More older people answered the poll for 14 than younger people that is fact.

44.5% of total poll respondants were 30-39, 27.3% of total poll respondants were 20-29.

Thus, FFXIV had a +39.9% overrepresentation among the 20-29 crowd, and a -10.8% underrepresentation among the 30-39 crowd.

FFVII had a -36.64% underrepresentation among the 20-29 crowd and a +7.6% overrepresentation among the 30-39 crowd.

FFVI had a -48.4% underrepresentation among the 20-29 crowd and a +39.3% representation among the 30-39 crowd.

These data points all show the same exact thing: people won't vote for a game they haven't played. This doesn't even need data to back it, it is common sense.

Quote:
Almost 70% of those who answered the poll for 14 would be old enough to have played the other games.
If you take 30% of the voters out of the picture, you'd swing the outcome of every election the US has had in the last 200 years. That's not a small number, you just suck at statistics.
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-15 06:42:51  
I suck at statistics? Says someone trying to do their best Trump impression.

Why isn't 12 so high up that list if younger voters are important? Do you see the breakdown of that game?

If younger votes counted more surely 9, 10, 12, 13, 14 and 15 would all be at the top? 9, 10 and 12 are very good games are they not?
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2024-05-15 06:53:05  
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
I suck at statistics
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
Why isn't 12 so high up that list if younger voters are important
70% of voters can reasonably vote for any game on the list. That gets spread between the games that were best received. That's why older people aren't massively underrepresented in any game.

The remaining 30% can only reasonably vote for games they've played, which tapers from 12 to 15. So, the younger 30% is primarily directed at FF12, FF13, FF14, FF15. You can fairly say that FFXIV did much better than FF12,13,15 among young people. But, you can't fairly say that FFXIV did great among all people or among all FF games, because the vote is being carried by young people who did not play 3/4 of the list.
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-15 07:00:41  
You can fairly say it did well among all because it's high up the list.

Young people made up the smaller portion of votes than older and the votes in total were made up of older people.

Is it least skewed towards older people than the first 6 games? Sure. And that is why most of those games are higher up on the list.

It still proves the game is liked by people of all ages including older people.

You can take all the young votes out of this list and the order would stay around the same, as is the weighting of the poll. If older people have played more of the games and still vote for 14 as their best FF is that not a good sign?

A lot of older people will vote for 1-6 out of pure nostalgia too, so does that not skew the results as well?
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2024-05-15 07:03:49  
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
Is it least skewed towards older people than the first 6 games? Sure. And that is why most of those games are higher up on the list.

The games are higher up on the list despite being drastically underrepresented in the youngest 30% of votes. You can use this to conclude there is a huge gap between #1 and #5, unfortunately it doesn't seem the hard numbers are posted anywhere. But, given the distributions, it is likely that XIV is well below half the sum votes of X.

Quote:
If older people have played more of the games and still vote for 14 as their best FF is that not a good sign?
It's a sign that older people are still trying and enjoying new games. It's not a sign of how many are, because the poll doesn't show raw numbers, it only shows ratios.

Quote:
A lot of older people will vote for 1-6 out of pure nostalgia too, so does that not skew the results as well?
People will vote for XIV out of addiction, you can't claim the reason someone enjoys a game is a skew or bias, IMO. It's not the same thing as never having played it.
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-15 07:14:04  
So older people are trying and enjoying 14 (nearly 70% of those who voted it as their best game are 30+) and people are also addicted to the game.

Sounds like it's popular to me, which was the original point.

Something you seem to not be able to budge on due to being married to your hatred for the game and what it did to 11.
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2024-05-15 07:15:50  
Your original 'point' was that it was the only game to recently resonate with fans. You can't argue that it's resonating without the raw numbers, because you don't know if it got 80% of the votes FFX did, or 30%, or anywhere in between. If your argument is solely based on the age distribution within an unknown number of votes, consider that FFXV was only ~11% different in terms of 30-39 representation.

The data indicates toward the low end, because despite a huge bias against the earlier games presented by people who haven't played them[shown in data], FFXIV still placed behind 4 of them.

TLDR; You don't understand data. You saw it was high on the rankings, didn't consider the study methodology or interpret the data available, and are still doubling down as if it proves anything.
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-05-15 07:23:18  
FFX game out over 20 years ago. You're stretching the meaning of the word recent. By recent I mean the 13 games and 15 (I guess the data supports 12 as well) but I'm sure someone of such a high intellect knew that already.

If 15 had a lower percentage of older people voting for it and it placed lower it means that less older people voted for it. It's really not difficult.

If it had a higher percentage of older people voting for it but still came lower then we could have a conversation about which game older people likes more as it would be less clear.

There is also not a bias against those games that people did not play as the large majority of the people surveyed were of an age to play the games hence why younger votes carried less weight.

TLDR: You butted in and didn't understand my original point and no you don't understand data either, you understand how to waffle though I'll give you that.

I'm sure you'll respond to this with more waffle but I have work to get back to so I can't really keep doing this back and forth without either of us agreeing so lets agree to disagree.
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By Afania 2024-05-15 08:18:54  
RadialArcana said: »
. I would bet almost everyone that defended 16 was already either a fan of ff14 or an admirer of Yoshida.


I am not a fan of FF14 nor Yoshida, but I defended for FF16 because I support FF series change to action based combat and I wish them continue on this path of direction change. To me supporting an action FF game means more potential action FF games in the future.

For me old FF turn based mechanics are "too easy" to figure out mathematically so they don't offer enough dopamine rush to me, as I can easily figure out the most optimal solutions in this stat game while spending 80% of time watching combat animations instead of pressing buttons.


Action games at least test my reaction speed, not just math skill. so it offers more dopamine rush.

I liked the old FF for cool cutscenes and story, not turn based combat.

Sorry for being the black sheep in the FF community that is part of reason behind FF community genre preference split ;(
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By Draylo 2024-05-15 08:28:55  
You should support more games with ff7r combat over that dinky DMC rip off. FF7R had the best of both worlds and it's highly regarded amongst the fans instead of the controversial systems of 15/16.
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By RadialArcana 2024-05-15 08:47:40  
The problem Square have is they have been high achievers so long that it's impossible for them to impress investors anymore.

They are a victim of their own past success.
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By GetHelpNerd 2024-05-15 09:13:53  
Afania said: »
Godfry said: »
But now I can see how if you like FF and DMC then FF16 is a blast for you. I'm not talking down on it at all. I'm glad there is an audience for it.

I haven't play FF16 yet, it's on my backlog but other games is on a higher priority atm. I am not in a hurry to get to it.

Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
. I would bet almost everyone that defended 16 was already either a fan of ff14 or an admirer of Yoshida.


I am not a fan of FF14 nor Yoshida, but I defended for FF16


stockholm syndrome and ffxiah in a nutshell
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By Afania 2024-05-15 09:48:49  
GetHelpNerd said: »
Afania said: »
Godfry said: »
But now I can see how if you like FF and DMC then FF16 is a blast for you. I'm not talking down on it at all. I'm glad there is an audience for it.

I haven't play FF16 yet, it's on my backlog but other games is on a higher priority atm. I am not in a hurry to get to it.

Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
. I would bet almost everyone that defended 16 was already either a fan of ff14 or an admirer of Yoshida.


I am not a fan of FF14 nor Yoshida, but I defended for FF16


stockholm syndrome and ffxiah in a nutshell

Liking a video game is "Stockholm syndrome"? LOL.

Are you hurt or backstabbed by a video game or something? Lol.

I have never get hurt by a video game personally, I am truly sorry if you do.
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By Draylo 2024-05-15 10:02:43  
I met yoshida once.. and took a picture with her. At that time I was still annoyed what 14 did to 11, but I didnt say anything lol. Seems like a nice person but not a fan
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By Afania 2024-05-15 10:08:47  
Draylo said: »
You should support more games with ff7r combat over that dinky DMC rip off. FF7R had the best of both worlds and it's highly regarded amongst the fans instead of the controversial systems of 15/16.

FF7r leans too much towards traditional turn based in terms of design philosophy. It heavily focuses on using the correct weakness in combat. It doesn't really follow action game design philosophy that much.

For example, unavoidable damage in the fight that can not be avoided with reaction speed, or long CC move like sleep that took away player control for a long time etc.

I am not saying it is bad, but the target audience of FF7r is still traditional turn based fans, not action game fans.

I agree that SE should keep some of their games for turn based fans, that doesn't mean action battle system should be abandoned completely too. Variety is spice of life, after all.
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-05-15 10:10:35  
Draylo said: »
and took a picture with her

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By Afania 2024-05-15 10:12:58  
RadialArcana said: »
The problem Square have is they have been high achievers so long that it's impossible for them to impress investors anymore.

They are a victim of their own past success.

They are a victim of their fans and fans-turned-haters!
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By GetHelpNerd 2024-05-15 10:46:21  
Afania said: »
GetHelpNerd said: »
Afania said: »
Godfry said: »
But now I can see how if you like FF and DMC then FF16 is a blast for you. I'm not talking down on it at all. I'm glad there is an audience for it.

I haven't play FF16 yet, it's on my backlog but other games is on a higher priority atm. I am not in a hurry to get to it.

Afania said: »
RadialArcana said: »
. I would bet almost everyone that defended 16 was already either a fan of ff14 or an admirer of Yoshida.


I am not a fan of FF14 nor Yoshida, but I defended for FF16


stockholm syndrome and ffxiah in a nutshell

Liking a video game is "Stockholm syndrome"? LOL.

Are you hurt or backstabbed by a video game or something? Lol.

I have never get hurt by a video game personally, I am truly sorry if you do.

bro, you're stanning for a game you have admittedly not even played and clearly know very little about. that is absolutely wild behavior
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By RadialArcana 2024-05-15 10:49:41  
Covid boosted profits across the board, and now by comparison the current profits look crap. Most shareholders are stupid and know nothing about the video game industry.

It doesn't matter how much profit a game makes, all that matters is are shareholders happy with those profits. This is how stupid the entire system is.

Also another pressure point is there are new things to invest in, such as Open AI that has far greater growth potential.
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By Afania 2024-05-15 11:00:11  
GetHelpNerd said: »
bro, you're stanning for a game you have admittedly not even played and clearly know very little about. that is absolutely wild behavior


I have liked plenty of games that I have never played. Sometimes I watch a let's play video, like the art, genre, music, characters and animations. I don't need to play a game to appreciate art and direction.

I also never recommend FF16 to anyone. I have never tell anybody to buy it nor praise the game itself. I only ever said I don't understand most of the critism since they are about the direction not design flaws, if a critism is about direction not flaws then I won't be convinced when I read them regardless of the game, and I will call it out.

I also said that I like action battle system so I would like to see more games use it, that's all. That does not mean I recommend FF16 to everybody, I only said I approved the direction of action combat because it is my personal genre preference.

On the other hand it is your mentality that I don't understand. If you like action battle system or art style in a game that you haven't play, and you expressed interest based on personal genre preference, then you have Stockholm syndrome? THAT is wild man.
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By GetHelpNerd 2024-05-15 11:14:18  
i bet you've liked all the pizza places you've never eaten at too just because you like pizza.

just a really odd assertion, already have enough delusional simps in this conversation, why did you need to add yourself to that mix despite never having played the game? bonkers
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By Afania 2024-05-15 11:20:13  
GetHelpNerd said: »
i bet you've liked all the pizza places you've never eaten at too just because you like pizza.


No. You are the only person who is drawing an equation here.

According to your logic, if you like pizza, found a pizza place, Expressed interest in that pizza place based on personal pizza preference, you have Stockholm syndrome and is a simp.

For most people, express interest in something based on personal preference is not a simp nor Stockholm syndrome. You are the only person who draws equation between the two.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-05-15 11:21:05  
RadialArcana said: »
Covid boosted profits across the board, and now by comparison the current profits look crap. Most shareholders are stupid and know nothing about the video game industry.
People in charge of financials are dumbfounded at how to correlate an uptick in video games sales over a year long period where people would go to jail for being outside beyond picking up essential necessities?!?!?
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By Afania 2024-05-15 11:36:49  
GetHelpNerd said: »
delusional simps

A simp is something like this:

"I defend for FF16 because it is 10/10 best game ever! It is soooo fun!! But I haven't play the game."

I didn't say that, I said this:
"I defended for FF16 because I support FF series change to action based combat and I wish them continue on this path of direction change. "

Saying I like action games so I wish SE make more action games in the future is not a simp. Saying a game is good without playing is. Except I didn't say the game is good. I said I want more action games, that's all.
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By Godfry 2024-05-15 11:46:01  
Afania said: »
I defended for FF16 because I support FF series change to action based combat and I wish them continue on this path of direction change.

The path...
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By Afania 2024-05-15 11:57:41  
Godfry said: »
Afania said: »
I defended for FF16 because I support FF series change to action based combat and I wish them continue on this path of direction change.

The path...


It's more of Rebirth's fault according to SE ;< SE said Rebirth didn't meet initial sales target but at least FF16 did.

I am the one who is against the entire idea of 100hr jrpg this whole time lol. Wish them stop pleasing incredibly small group of players into these kind of things....
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By Godfry 2024-05-15 12:04:53  
Afania said: »
It's more of Rebirth's fault according to SE ;< SE said Rebirth didn't meet initial sales target but at least FF16 did.

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By Afania 2024-05-15 12:22:55  
Godfry said: »
Afania said: »
It's more of Rebirth's fault according to SE ;< SE said Rebirth didn't meet initial sales target but at least FF16 did.


It is not copium it is fact.

FF16 was out on 2023 July, so FF16 sales result should be on 2023 Q2-Q3.

Stock price decrease happened after 2024 Q1 report. Rebirth was out on 2024 Feb.

It is Rebirth affecting 2024 Q1 report more than FF16.
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