Did Ff16 Flop?

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2010-06-21
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Did ff16 flop?
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 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-01-15 17:09:16  
Draylo said: »
You apparently can't discuss different topics without dragging up anything from someones post history across various debates and topics. Even though its completely irrelevant, my issue with private servers has nothing to do with them just disliking retail, its more nuanced than that.

Its no wonder people use fake and sock accounts, people are incapable of discussing a current topic without resorting to it when they get offended. I gave my opinion through various threads on this topic, probably over 5+ threads and I was just answering OP directly. Your opinion isn't superior, and I have no obligation to you. You even came into this thread automatically declaring the OP a troll, looks like you are quite defensive in every post you make.

The projection is just dripping from this post. Everything you do wrong in this place in one post. Well done bro, good job. The post history was just to show you how long I've been here for as you questioned my age. You are very infamous and you know it, for doing exactly what you've done in this thread.
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By RadialArcana 2024-01-15 17:14:08  
Draylo said: »
You apparently can't discuss different topics

you know what's gonna happen
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By Draylo 2024-01-15 17:21:39  
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
Draylo said: »
You apparently can't discuss different topics without dragging up anything from someones post history across various debates and topics. Even though its completely irrelevant, my issue with private servers has nothing to do with them just disliking retail, its more nuanced than that.

Its no wonder people use fake and sock accounts, people are incapable of discussing a current topic without resorting to it when they get offended. I gave my opinion through various threads on this topic, probably over 5+ threads and I was just answering OP directly. Your opinion isn't superior, and I have no obligation to you. You even came into this thread automatically declaring the OP a troll, looks like you are quite defensive in every post you make.

The projection is just dripping from this post. Everything you do wrong in this place in one post. Well done bro, good job. The post history was just to show you how long I've been here for as you questioned my age. You are very infamous and you know it, for doing exactly what you've done in this thread.

I gave my opinion in a thread asking for opinions. You came into this thread attacking the OP twice, and now you are attacking anyone that doesn't agree with your opinion and dragging unrelated previous debates into the topic. You are not really posting with the best intentions it seems. How does the post history show your age? You are talking about something that was relevant only a month or two ago... Also you are the one that brought age into the thread as a means to attack people who dislike this game.
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By Seun 2024-01-15 17:34:10  
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
Draylo said: »
The same ***? Like giving my opinion in a thread asking for opinions? Why does it bother you so much that people dislike it? The fact you think your opinion is superior, for what reason and based on what?

My opinion is superior to yours specifically because I at least tried to put some effort into it rather than a drive by "Flopped, game is trash".


"This game failed to live up to the expectation of 'what I think a FF game should be'."

All other opinions are invalid.
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By Zehira 2024-01-15 17:35:27  
Asura.Thunderjet said: »
What makes dragon quest xi good its still a turn based game!!
Square needs to treat ff like dq!

Probably because the creator of Dragon Quest is still working for SE since he started his first Dragon Quest/Warrior. I heard DQ12 is going to be something different unfortunately. 
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-01-15 17:37:33  
Elden Ring 3.64 million sales = Amazing perfect game, GOTY
FF16 3 million sales = flop

But heres what I dont get, which makes some of these numbers seem sus or incomplete:
There are nearly 47 million PS5's sold.

The highest selling game is Spiderman2 at 5 mil
Then Elden Ring at 3.64
FF16 at 3m
Ratchet & Clank at 2.72
Demon's Souls 2.08
Returnal 1.02
Uncharted Collection 0.57m
Death Stranding: 0.34m
source: https://www.vgchartz.com/games/games.php?console=ps5

Thats a total of 18.37 million games sold, based on confirmed sales data, or data that was willing to be released, yet there are nearly 47 million PS5 consoles out there.

Just how many people out there are buying PS5's to use as a home media system and NOT as a gaming system??
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-01-15 17:40:07  
Based on sales and sales alone, 15 is the 'best' modern day FF game.

PS5 game sales have generally not been that high, especially in Japan. I know at least in Japan a lot of PS5's are bought for playing f2p games. And Japan is where a lot of Final Fantasy sales come from.

vgchartz isn't known for being accurate with sales numbers so some of those numbers could be wrong I think.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-01-15 17:49:26  
Asura.Thunderjet said: »
What makes dragon quest xi good its still a turn based game!!
Released on 3DS, PS4 and Windows
Re-released as an enhanced edition for Switch, PS4, Windows and Stadia

6 million sales in total

Octopath Traveler: 3 million sales to date
Octopath Traveler II: 1 million copies in the first 3.5 months

Information on Baldur's Gate 3 sales is sketchy, at best. Its reported to be anywhere between 5 mil and 22 mil.
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By Viciouss 2024-01-15 17:55:28  
oh hey, it's this thread again.
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By Draylo 2024-01-15 17:57:32  
Sales alone don't make a game good or bad (mostly), if someone is asking directly about a games success (not necessarily if it was good or not to play) then its probably the easiest thing to reference.
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-01-15 17:59:03  
Baldur's Gate 3 sold extremely well but it's arguably better than any Final Fantasy game has ever been if you look at the reception to it but it's also more buggy than any Final Fantasy game would be allowed to be.

BG3 is also a crpg, something a mainline Final Fantasy likely won't be and would also alienate a lot of FF fans if it became one too.
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By Meeble 2024-01-15 18:12:10  
Asura.Thunderjet said: »
I don’t understand this stupid mind set by yoshi that it has to be action, look at baldurs gate, ff needs to evolve in the turn based genre, don’t change what is already main to the franchise..

Money, baby, cash money.

That's not sarcasm, they literally set out to make a game that would appeal to young people who dislike turn-based systems because of the sales potential. I think calling it what Yoshida wanted is inaccurate, though. He isn't free to make whatever he wants; Management handed him sales targets to hit and XVI is the game he thought had the best chance of hitting those numbers.
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 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-01-15 18:18:30  
Meeble said: »
Asura.Thunderjet said: »
I don’t understand this stupid mind set by yoshi that it has to be action, look at baldurs gate, ff needs to evolve in the turn based genre, don’t change what is already main to the franchise..

Money, baby, cash money.

That's not sarcasm, they literally set out to make a game that would appeal to young people who dislike turn-based systems because of the sales potential. I think calling it what Yoshida wanted is inaccurate, though. He isn't free to make whatever he wants; Management handed him sales targets to hit and XVI is the game he thought had the best chance of hitting those numbers.

Yep, and that made sense with how well 15 eventually sold.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-01-15 19:55:58  
Whether something is a success of flop depends on how much total revenue it made, so how much it costs to produce is a significant factor. FFXVI, like FFXV, was stupid expensive due to all the high quality cinematic effects.
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 Ragnarok.Zeig
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By Ragnarok.Zeig 2024-01-15 23:17:57  
Taint said: »
I am tired off the useless curse words in games and wish I could turn them off. I'm a father of 4 (oldest in 10) its a pain trying to play a game that says *** often. I have the same issue with GoW but its more pronounced in FF16.
Don't you know? It's Game-of-thronsy, it's SO MATURE, it's SO DARK, and it's SO SRS. Need to start with a sex scene, a bloodbath, and have a lot of cursing in pseudo ye olde English

Disclaimer: I haven't played the game. This is my impression based on the demo & word of mouth (which I think is still relevant to this discussion since it gauges initial reception and potential interest in purchasing the product)

Honestly, the major impression I got after watching the demo and listening to my friends' (and people's) feedbacks is "tryhard".

I didn't feel interested in the world nor the characters. The American fantasy drama a la GoT impresson, and the inevitable focus on the "localization" (as in, it feels that the game is best played & experienced in English due to the concept and setting) is a major turn off for me. I want a JRPG story with JRPG character designs and trappings (which can still have mature and serious themes). More anime and less American TV series fantasy.

Reception based on word of mouth from friends is generally negative. A friend who just went through the game described it as a movie (in a negative way). Gameplay is weak. Average action game that looks pretty. No meaningful progression system. Cinematics are top-tier and are on par with what you'd expect from SE's talents.

I didn't buy a PS5 anyways so I'll wait till it's ported to PC to actually try out it myself & have a more informed opinion. But for now, I'm not excited at all, otherwise I would've borrowed my brother's PS5.
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 Bahamut.Negan
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By Bahamut.Negan 2024-01-15 23:20:58  
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Taint said: »
I am tired off the useless curse words in games and wish I could turn them off. I'm a father of 4 (oldest in 10) its a pain trying to play a game that says *** often. I have the same issue with GoW but its more pronounced in FF16.
Don't you know? It's Game-of-thronsy, it's SO MATURE, it's SO DARK, and it's SO SRS. Need to start with a sex scene, a bloodbath, and have a lot of cursing in pseudo ye olde English
YouTube Video Placeholder
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 Bahamut.Drumskull
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By Bahamut.Drumskull 2024-01-16 00:07:49  
Ragnarok.Zeig said: »
Taint said: »
I am tired off the useless curse words in games and wish I could turn them off. I'm a father of 4 (oldest in 10) its a pain trying to play a game that says *** often. I have the same issue with GoW but its more pronounced in FF16.
Don't you know? It's Game-of-thronsy, it's SO MATURE, it's SO DARK, and it's SO SRS. Need to start with a sex scene, a bloodbath, and have a lot of cursing in pseudo ye olde English

Disclaimer: I haven't played the game. This is my impression based on the demo & word of mouth (which I think is still relevant to this discussion since it gauges initial reception and potential interest in purchasing the product)

Honestly, the major impression I got after watching the demo and listening to my friends' (and people's) feedbacks is "tryhard".

I didn't feel interested in the world nor the characters. The American fantasy drama a la GoT impresson, and the inevitable focus on the "localization" (as in, it feels that the game is best played & experienced in English due to the concept and setting) is a major turn off for me. I want a JRPG story with JRPG character designs and trappings (which can still have mature and serious themes). More anime and less American TV series fantasy.

Reception based on word of mouth from friends is generally negative. A friend who just went through the game described it as a movie (in a negative way). Gameplay is weak. Average action game that looks pretty. No meaningful progression system. Cinematics are top-tier and are on par with what you'd expect from SE's talents.

I didn't buy a PS5 anyways so I'll wait till it's ported to PC to actually try out it myself & have a more informed opinion. But for now, I'm not excited at all, otherwise I would've borrowed my brother's PS5.

But they want new Fans!!! Younger People to get into Final fantasy!!!! lol
 Asura.Thunderjet
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By Asura.Thunderjet 2024-01-16 00:12:26  
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
Meeble said: »
Asura.Thunderjet said: »
I don’t understand this stupid mind set by yoshi that it has to be action, look at baldurs gate, ff needs to evolve in the turn based genre, don’t change what is already main to the franchise..

Money, baby, cash money.

That's not sarcasm, they literally set out to make a game that would appeal to young people who dislike turn-based systems because of the sales potential. I think calling it what Yoshida wanted is inaccurate, though. He isn't free to make whatever he wants; Management handed him sales targets to hit and XVI is the game he thought had the best chance of hitting those numbers.

Yep, and that made sense with how well 15 eventually sold.


Wrong Wrong Wrong, They never did a Turn based game since ff10. Persona 5 Sold 10 million units and that's a very weeb game lol, Baldur's gate 3 was a success from day 1. ITs just kids like Action games and they want kids to get into final fantasy and just as taint said there is so much F Bombs randomly, and honestly that Gay Scene is so random and out of place as well.
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 Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2024-01-16 04:30:00  
I enjoyed FF16, but it overstayed it's welcome, by a lot.

By the end I was absolutely steam rolling everything. It felt like my attacks had absolutely no weight what-so-ever. There was an attack that essentially grouped all the enemies together, and then one more attack after would kill them all.

I didn't play with any of the helper rings - and even took away some of the endgame accessories that I felt made things even easier. Towards the end I even took away skills that I thought were too powerful.

The story brought up some incredibly interesting concepts. The connections to Climate Change (We have this resource, it makes our lives infinitely easier, but it corrupts the world and causes crops to be ungrowable. People are exploited and killed for the resource. A group of activists are trying to remove it from the world.)

Incredibly interesting conceptually, but the ending itself absolutely drops the ball. Seeing how the world transitions away from that, and the political conflicts that would entail would be very interesting.

Instead we get - what - an epilogue that implies that nobody even believes that world existed? A world teaming with dangerous monsters. An interesting epilogue could have been a combat section without the use of magic. Show how the new world would be difficult to navigate, but how it's ultimately worth that sacrifice for a more sustainable future.

I didn't really feel anything towards the big bad. I felt like Ultima was a bit.. I don't know. I felt the game initially sold itself with the idea of being GoT, political intrigue, and then just didn't know what to do with that conceptually. Instead we get big baddy anime villain. Yawn.

I finished it. But I think 75% of the way through I was done.
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 Bahamut.Suph
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By Bahamut.Suph 2024-01-16 06:47:20  
I feels like Square Enix is just coasting on their old reputation at this point. All the new games feel very linear and I'm not talking story wise. All FF have linear story, I don't recalls an FF I've played where you can't do all content/experience the entire story in a single playthrough. There are things you can missed out without a guide, but you never have to choose either A or B, Imperial or Nords.

Not zone wise either, FFX basically railroaded you into a single track before Zarnarkand with even going back to old zones being a pain, yet it was probably one of the more popular FF, certainly one of my favorite.

But recent FF have also made character progression linear, you no longer have a choice what materia to equip on whom or how to link them together. You no longer have the choice to go left or right on the sphere grid/license board, or to use this rare sphere on which character. You don't have a choice on whose to equip these guardian forces, Lighting just get Odin, Clive just get Ifrit.

I have replayed FF7/8/10/12 many times (though not nearly as many times as FFT). Each time I can play them slightly differently, even if I have a preference (like my Ramza is almost always a dual fisted monk). But I quitted my 2nd playthrough of FF13 halfway in, when i realized that you can't varies character progression in FF13.

In FF13, each character have their own linear set of crystarium path for each of the 6 roles. There are no forks in those paths and you can't even favor any path over the other. At some point the crystarium points requirement have a big jump and nothing until the next zone will give you reasonable points to progress, so you are forced to level all the paths equally.

In FF14, when you do a dungeon, no matter what jobs the duty finder paired you with, the strat for that dungeon is the same, so just watch the youtube video, learn where to stand, and avoid the glowing circle/rectangle on the ground. There is no progression of mage strat => range strat => DD strat. No TP denial strategy, no supertank strategy, no zombie pull strat, no kiting strat, no figuring out how to do this dungeon with the jobs you have, because really all jobs with the same roles in FF14 are interchangeable.

I stop playing FF7RE half way through my first playthrough, when I realized the fights are largely scripted. Summons comes out when you get into a serious fight. You don't have to make the choice of, do I save MP for the next fight or do I summon Knights of Round on this random rabbit. While I am interested in the story, I stop playing and just read wiki and watch youtube on the cutscenes i want to see with no interest in grinding through the rest of the game.

I don't think FF will dies any time soon and I'm sure FF17 will do well whatever the actual quality of the game. But I do think we are passed the halfway point of the Final Fantasy franchise. I'm feeling pretty confident that Final Fantasy will end before FF32 (and maybe a decade after FF31, someone will buyout Square Enix's IP and make make FF32 a la Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny).
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 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-01-16 07:04:24  
Asura.Thunderjet said: »
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
Meeble said: »
Asura.Thunderjet said: »
I don’t understand this stupid mind set by yoshi that it has to be action, look at baldurs gate, ff needs to evolve in the turn based genre, don’t change what is already main to the franchise..

Money, baby, cash money.

That's not sarcasm, they literally set out to make a game that would appeal to young people who dislike turn-based systems because of the sales potential. I think calling it what Yoshida wanted is inaccurate, though. He isn't free to make whatever he wants; Management handed him sales targets to hit and XVI is the game he thought had the best chance of hitting those numbers.

Yep, and that made sense with how well 15 eventually sold.


Wrong Wrong Wrong, They never did a Turn based game since ff10. Persona 5 Sold 10 million units and that's a very weeb game lol, Baldur's gate 3 was a success from day 1. ITs just kids like Action games and they want kids to get into final fantasy and just as taint said there is so much F Bombs randomly, and honestly that Gay Scene is so random and out of place as well.

Why is a gay scene out of place? It made perfect sense in that part of the narrative. It was just 2 guys kissing. I'm sorry if that offends you?
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 Cerberus.Balloon
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By Cerberus.Balloon 2024-01-16 07:38:49  
Bismarck.Stephenjd said: »
It was just 2 guys kissing.

I always ask myself during these kind of complaints: Would there be a complaint if it was a woman and a man?

It's not out of place, not every gay character has to have being gay a part of their central story. In fact, it's nice when it's NOT part of their story. Because for a lot of us it isn't our defining feature.
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By RadialArcana 2024-01-16 08:28:48  
Square rose to fame by being a Japanese company offering a palatable dose of Japanese entertainment to the west, high budget western friendly Japanese video games.

Enix was pretty much the opposite, they were proud of and stay true to their culture and offered unashamedly Japanese video games. They still do and DQ is a prime example of what they produce, that part of Square Enix that is still true to what they have always been.

The problem with Square is they going overboard into western pandering and ott realism now, so at a time when people love JP games and western entertainment is being disregarded as low quality, they are going all in to the point they seem ashamed of being Japanese company at all. Who wants knockoff western video games from a JP company? Who wanted FF GoT really though? Who wanted Marvel super hero game from Square Enix, who wanted a fortnite knockoff, who wanted forespoken.

This is why they keep failing when they make anything new, when they should be leaning into being a fantastical Japanese developer more (where the spiky hair, fantasy races and big swords at bro) and embracing their culture they are doing the opposite.

Even China gets this, and are making a killing with games that appear to be made in Japan. Stuff like Genshin Impact.

Yoshida even said he hated the term JRPG, I mean of all times to do that...why would you do that now when everyone is fawning over JP made games? Most of the leadership at Square Enix are either completely clueless or fixated with western culture to a fault.

One of their most beloved newly made recent hits was a game none of the management even cared about, that had a small budget and that they have done next to nothing with since, Nier Automata.
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-01-16 09:01:04  
I'm playing Sea of Stars. There is plenty of life left in JRPG genres and it's a shame the SE doesn't seem to want any part of it outside of the occasional Octopath Traveler or Triangle Strategy.

I'll happily echo Radial in saying that I don't want western style games from SE.

I don't mind if they have western aesthetics and look, but I expect them to play well and be full of systems that are enjoyable to interact with because they positively reward good play and punish bad play. I'm ok with missing out on something on my first play through because they aren't handing everything out or a Game Over screen, especially if it's a good one.

The story has to be visually compelling enough that a localization team can't mess it up, but past that I'm good with simple storylines that are at least 2 steps above characters screaming Kagome and Sasuke back and forth every 5 minutes. Not every game has to have Kefka break the world in the middle of the game, though it probably wouldn't hurt if it mixes things up in a positive way for gameplay. I don't need devs to try to give me depression for nothing, I expect something good to come out of bad feelings. If I wanted it the other way I'd just go play Life instead of Fantasy games.
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-01-16 09:26:21  
So what I'm getting from people in here is that they want a pixel art, turn-based gacha game that has complex systems.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2024-01-16 09:42:18  
People don't know what the *** they want.

They just didn't want Devil May Cry pretends to be Final Fantasy, poorly.
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 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-01-16 10:04:46  
Instead they want Final Fantasy pretends to be Baldur's Gate, poorly.
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By jubes 2024-01-16 10:11:31  
it doesn't matter what we want, we aren't the target audience for these games any more. some of us naturally feel some entitlement after playing from ff1 onwards, but its time for the new generations to decide what they want.
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 Shiva.Myamoto
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By Shiva.Myamoto 2024-01-16 10:44:10  
I have to agree with that statement for the most part. I feel that mostly our generation of gamers (assuming most of us are +- 10 years or whatever) grew up playing most of the same games and we simply hold certain titles to a higher standard because of our own nostalgia. Granted those games were fun and I still love to play many of the older games that were such a franchise hit, but take ff7 and ff10 in particular... for individuals that never grew up playing those games and didn't have the opportunity to play them on release when they were the best the systems had to offer and considered pinnacle moments for the series, a 15 year old gamer today would play ff7 and or ff10 today and I bet their response would be "what is this crap? this is boring".

As I stated before, I personally really enjoyed ff16. Its been a long while since I played a Final Fantasy series release that I had a lot of fun playing and genuinely thought the story was quite powerful and captivating. FF10-2 was fun but meh, 12 was decent for the time, 13 was meh, and 15 was meh. I played them all and beat them all, but 16 IMO was really great overall.
 Bismarck.Stephenjd
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By Bismarck.Stephenjd 2024-01-16 10:47:57  
Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. It's what brings me back to 11 often even though I know how flawed it is as a game and the lack of support for it now.
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