Marmorkrebs V25

I read that note too and I'm almost positive (won't commit to 100%) that he dispels them with Rending Deluge.

Also, you don't always have 3 runes up because you are spending them on multiple Rayke and Gambits with random/wild card resets too so there is down time.

I guess it's possible he didn't always have 3 runes up when he was reapplying the buff or getting dispelled, now I'm second guessing myself.

Did some dispel vs ward testing in pvp.
Naked RUN vs SCH/RDM in max macc gear. Used Ignis runes on the RUN so I wouldn't have any dark resistance.

First, a control of sorts. Single rune Vallation.

Was able to be dispelled, as expected.

Used two more runes, Pflug'd, Valiance'd and Battuta'd then dispelled again.

While I could dispel the fast cast effect from inspiration, I could not dispel the vallation effect, Pflug or Battuta. So we are seeing the effect on any Ward ability attempted so far.

Note that it says 'No effect' rather than resists. Showing that the spell is landing, but I simply have nothing that can be dispelled.

For the final test, I wanted to verify when you needed to have 3 runes. On JA activation? Or upon dispel attempt.

Used 3 runes, swipe/lunged off my runes(I did swipe first as a test cause I wasn't sure how hard this would hit Ard. Wasn't an issue, lol. No weapon skill, no base dmg I guess) Now with no runes, I had Ard dispel.

Ard was unable to dispel the ward effects. SO. You only need 3 runes up at the time of ward activation to impart the dispel resistance effect.

In summary, ward abilities used with 3 runes active at the time of the ward's activation are immune to normal dispel effects.

I'm still not sure what the hell is going on with Bane of Tartarus. And we'll have to do independent verification for Marmorkreb's Rending Deluge since we've seen that exceptions can exist.

Regarding Bane, I found and exception to my exception. Here's some logs for Bane where I had Inspiration fast cast up, and that was removed, but I didn't lose vallation... I have.. no idea why. Confirmed 3 runes used before vall for this one as well.Next Aminon I will be paying very close attention to my runes and ward usage before Bane.

Thank you for that testing.

Almost certain a bunch those full dispel moves in Odyssey remove wards too, like Volcanic Stasis from Kalunga, Glassy Nova from Arebati or Debilitating Spout from Gigelorum. Haven't done much Ody in I while, but could swear either of those tend to leave me with just 3x runes left for buffs.

And the absorb from Fu/Ou too for that matter, but guess that's kind of a special case too?

Nah there are no dispels in Gaol that will remove your wards as far as I recall.

Kalunga definitely doesn't. I RP'd him from R0~10 Sakpata up to 5/5 R30 as a RUN with my buddy doing the BST thing. He only killed me once in all the runs we did, so every single fight was ~13 minutes of tanking him and usually a few full dispels. He never took my wards.

This is the reason RUN is the preferred tank on Kalunga, a PLD can start getting wrecked pretty fast after a full dispel (especially if it goes into fetter mode) whereas RUN hardly misses a beat. Kalunga is basically incapable of killing a good RUN unless the fetter DOT kills them. The one time he killed me was due to that, he killed both of my Erase-capable trusts on pull and went into fetter mode like 2 minutes into the fight. I didn't feel like burning a million gil in Panaceas to save myself so I just let it happen. I started casting Shell5 on my healer trusts after that. ;) Erase is niiiiice.

Same with Arebati, he never took my wards. That's why we had RUN tank Arebati and PLD tank the adds instead of the other way around.

The rule of thumb I've heard is that any buffs that appear after your food icon can only be dispelled by special dispel effects like Martel talked about on the first page. Even those special dispels, I'm not entirely sure they can dispel wards either, as Martel's testing suggests. I don't think I can recall ever having Valiance/Vallation dispelled by anything short of a level cap / level sync being applied.

This is the polar opposite of my Kalunga experience. He oneshotted my RUN over and over with Searing Serration. Whereas on PLD you just don't give a ***. Full dispel? Annoying, but not an issue. I don't even bother to rebuff anything but crusade and phalanx, and the BRD is multiboxed, so I don't usually get new songs either. And it's not a problem.

Fetters are the most dangerous thing for PLD still, but if you maintain meva and ele resistance they aren't an issue unless he's fetter mode raging, or you get caught with Serrations all stats down. Panacea that fast. It makes fetters a lot more dangerous.

I really have to wonder what the difference is here. Cause I don't think my RUN is bad. It's very well geared, and I don't think I'm playing it poorly either. So what would be causing the difference in experiences here?

That's weird. The only thing a little abnormal that I did was use a parry build with Turms hands for healing since I didn't always have a real healer. I went all-in on Inquartata, even using a cape with Parry+5% on the Resin augment. (I'll post the set when I get home)

Searing Serration is a 4-hit hybrid attack according to BGWiki (edit: I misread, 4-fold not 4-hit), maybe I was consistently parrying it and that's what saved me? That move never did much damage to me, although I admit the attrib down could be a bit scary and I sometimes used Panacea for that.

Also if MLs could be a contributing factor, I'm around ML33. I know RUN's defenses benefit a lot from master levels.

Edit: I also always made sure to keep Barfire up, runes alone don't give quite enough meva. Upon full dispel, I would always Barfire first then Phalanx.

I have had nearly identical experiences both with RUN and PLD on V25 Kalunga as well. One shots on RUN in capped DT Nyame based sets with valation/valiance up with or without shell5 being on or off; whereas PLD eating more ***than usual on fetters (and have seen many of our runes in both LS eat one shots multiple times).

Once I added Empy +3 feet/Legs (only) into my RUN tanking sets for Kalunga high dmg one shot deaths dramatically decreased. Serration one shot deaths are much less likely for me now, seemingly. My guess is Serration has very high magic accuracy or MAB on it's magic portion of the hybrid damage, and even though Nyame has more defense, Erilaz +3 is safer.

I've tried various build for Kalunga on RUN. I've done parry focused, def focus, Turms hands, extra meva/resist. I dunno, maybe I just have fantastically bad luck on parries or something. -_-;

Also I'm ML32 on RUN. And barfire was always a high priority recast after dispel.
Serration is... weird. I did a lot of experimenting with it on Achuka to test various aspect of it. It definitely has some sort of bonus damage on the magical side. I did a test where I sentinel'd when I saw it coming(Achuka has slower charge time, so you can actually do that there) and even though a fresh sentinel was up, and it should have zero'd the dmg on the physical hit, giving the magic side a base damage of 0, it still did a few hundred dmg. This suggests to me that there's some sort of magic dmg+ on the second hit giving ti more base damage than a hybrid ws would normally have.

Although, reducing or parrying the first hit is definitely a significant dmg reduction. But you can only stack parry so high, and Battuta has limited up time. So.. why do I seem to eat all the lethal ones on RUN?

Hmmm. Honestly I'd more or less felt that with barfire, high meva gear, Vallation, and sometimes even carol(depending on what we were experimenting with to try to keep RUN alive...), that RUN had the magical side of things covered. Seems kinda weird that RUN has more PDT than PLD, vastly more meva, vallation, ele resist... And PLD's not blocking much wearing Aegis... Yet searing serration dmg has always seemed so much more manageable on PLD. PLD has.. more def, and has MDT II? But Aegis's 87.5% magic reduction is literally identical to just getting a full resist with no MDT at all(1/8 dmg.) So you'd think RUN would be handling this better even if the physical hit was more damaging... This led me to think it was the physical that was ending me so I tried a lot of parry/def related sets.

But if somehow RUN really wasn't resisting the magic hit of Searing at all, that does flip things around a bit. Suddenly instead of 1/8 of full dmg*0.5, then reduced by vallation. you'd be looking at full dmg*0.5 then vall. It's a huge difference. The thought that RUN with all the meva/ele resist isn't resisting it at all though.. kinda blows my mind. I don't think it's unresistable or anything, or it'd be killing RUN a lot more often. It kills me, but it's not like it's every time. It's just it killing me at all is an issue... Oh, and if it is that hard to resist, then meva- aura is as much a death sentence as def-...

On another note, I also tried V25 Kalunga on PLD with stage 3 Duban recently. And while I did take more magic dmg from Lahar or Tyrannical blow, it pretty well neutered Searing. Only 15% MDT II for the second hit, but I guess blocking the first hit has that much value. Highest searing was a bit over 500. The highest dmg I saw overall was two one off ws for around 1k. A 1k tyrannical blow, which is a bit annoying cause that usually hits for basically nothing. Although, it was just one of them, and all the resist did hit for near nothing. Unresisted? And there was a 1.1k Lahar. Not life threatening, but a double Lahar where the second one hit that hard while you're already weakened could be iffy. Definitely feeling the need for more MDT II on Duban, but it went well overall for a single run sample, and not getting stunned by melee hits was fabulous.

Here's the set I used for Kalunga:

ammo="Staunch Tathlum +1",
head="Nyame Helm",
neck="Futhark Torque +2",
ear1="Odnowa Earring +1",
ear2="Tuisto Earring",
body="Runeist Coat +3",
hands="Turms Mittens +1",
ring1={name="Moonlight Ring", bag="wardrobe2"},
ring2="Defending Ring"
back={ name="Ogma's cape", augments={'HP+60','Eva.+20 /Mag. Eva.+20','Mag. Evasion+10','Enmity+10','Parrying rate+5%',}},
waist="Flume Belt +1",
legs="Erilaz Leg Guards +3",
feet="Turms Leggings +1"

No food or other support besides Sigil. (Maybe Sigil is the secret?!)

In the dozens of fights I did I don't think anything ever hit me for more than about 1200. And I don't think weakness from Lahar ever landed at all.

I.. what? I have NEVER seen Lahar's weakness NOT land. Regardless of job. I was under the impression it was flatly unresistable. The hell?

And I do always get Sigil for Odyssey runs.

Well, my screenshot failed to take... so again with the logs. But I was very certain to have 3 runes up, then vallation. And Bane took it right off again.I'm still not clear on why there's cases where it doesn't remove it... But for now I'm just going with Bane is ***, and Wards are normally not dispellable.

I can't remember specifics, it was a long time ago, but we cleared Marmorkrebs pretty readily with a PLD tanking. We got lucky with auras but I think we got it the first time through. Every run after that, I went with a RUN and it seemed a lot messier or we didn't clear it. There's obviously a huge luck element, but it seems to consistently go smoother with a PLD the few times I've done it.

He's the T2 I've done the least, but I've wondered why that's the case, I just haven't gone in enough to experiment. I was keeping Palisade and Reprisal up as much as possible, despite Aegis crap block rate, maybe his physical attacks hit hard enough that the block rate and higher physical dmg reduction helps? Can Sundering Snip be blocked?

Sundering Snip is magic damage, so it can't be blocked. But since it is magic damage, Aegis is effective and reliable. It also appears to not have a resist check, which is likely a large factor in why RUN can have some issues with it.

Did some recent Mamomarkreb V25 farms. Had the RUN make sure Valiance was used after the 3 runes were up. Rending Deluge never dispelled the Valiance. When he did it with two runes, it came off right away. Also Sundering Snip never killed him as long as Valiance was up to provide the required MDT.

Take away: RUN must keep Valiance or Vallation up 100% of the time. If it's down, Sundering Snip is an instant KO. They must have 3 x Sulpor up first or Rending Deluge will dispel the Valiance or Vallation. (Don't forget the Valiance merits too) RUN really needs to be paying attention the whole time.

Or still just use an Aegis PLD and it's so much simpler to tank lol. Easily killed without Rayke/Gambit. The only hard part in this fight is knowing how to keep the tank alive if you use a RUN.

Followup on Kalunga: You're right, Lahar's weakness does land on me as RUN.

I did some attempts today in a PUG, we got it pretty low each time so I got a good dose of hits. I did die once, from a 2k Serrated while weakened. Not sure why it hit so hard, I had protect4/barfire/phalanx/vallation up and wasn't in a midcast set or anything. No songs or cureskin, but even so, that's way higher than any other Serrated I saw. Most ranged anywhere from 180 to 500, and besides the one that killed me the highest I saw was 1.1k. I guess the 2k was all four hits landing unparried plus maybe the magic hit only 1/4 resisted.

That said, I feel like cureskin is mandatory on the tank when they're weakened and I wasn't getting any of that. With that (or Minne), I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been an issue.

So I guess it's choose your poison: fetters on PLD or serrated on RUN. That Serrated felt like a freak occurrence to me but it was only 4 fights so maybe I'm being presumptuous.

At one point when everyone else wiped I even had all 3 mobs banging on me plus fetters for around 3-4 mins and had no trouble surviving. But that's just because everyone else was dead so he couldn't get TP fast enough to do his Lahar>Serrated combo wombo.


Based on this and my experience above I'm going with defense being the key factor. I suspect RUN is resisting, but just doesn't have enough defense to keep the base damage of the magic hit low so it still ends up being pretty strong even when resisted.

This is very similar to my experience with Ifrit's Flaming Crush on SMN. As long as Ifrit can out-attack the enemy's defense, everything else becomes almost irrelevant. Give me Frailty and I'll hit capped damage on practically anything.

Parrying adds another factor of randomness for RUN. Without Battuta, even a 4-hit is bound to land all four hits from time to time regardless how much Inquartata you stack.

We tried a lot of things to mitigate or resist Lahar and nothing worked: different songs, various bolstered bubbles, resist gear, RUN buffs, etc. It stuck every time regardless of what we did, although durations varied slightly.

We had a streak of runs where he just spammed it near the end below 15%. Like we'd spend 5+ minutes with the entire group weakened until we timed out.