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Sortie Release - Info
Sortie Release - Info
Exactly Liement with Epeo will stop it on full party. It's just kinda hard to time it, when it only lasts 15 sec.
Yeah that RUN doesnt have Epeo and did not use Liement. Any other reason that could happen? Suppose the log will help guessing abit more.
Adding log from my side:
Adding log from my side:
Which Runes should you use to resist Vivisection?
Or, in other terms, which element is Vivisection alligned with?
Or, in other terms, which element is Vivisection alligned with?
Vivisection is darkness elemental damage, so you would want to have light runes harboured, combined with an Epeo run waiting until everyone in party is within 10 yalms to use liement. I can confirm none of this was used by the rune in this fight. Some other mechanic, most likely relating to the fact we had 0 fetters spawn in the 3 minutes and 15 seconds up to vivisection, over several elemental changes, was the cause of vivisection losing its huge damage base.
3' 15"? I thought Vivi was used pretty close past the 3' mark :-o
One thing that I could guess, maybe you procced !! right before Vivi and maybe it gives Aita some kind of temporary floored MAB/Macc we didnt know about.
Tried searching the thread, but didn't see anything, does mew work on Aminon? I saw that it works on H unresisted.
I'm curious how you had zero fetters spawn in the first place, over 3 minutes and across multiple element changes. It always seemed like they spawned shortly after element shifts to me.
The fetters aren't targetable/killable, right?
The fetters aren't targetable/killable, right?
Fenrir.Svens said: »
Tried searching the thread, but didn't see anything, does mew work on Aminon? I saw that it works on H unresisted.
In our specific case it ended up being overkill on top of 4 mages spamming Absorb-TP and the RUN spamming Stoneskin, but it works.
Thanks for the information. With that, I formulated a theoretical melee strat for Aminon. It's probably not as fast or easy as the current mage method, but it should be possible.
Party Setup
MNK/DRG - Damage source, keeps 75 subtle blow in TP/WS, sheds hate with jumps
BRD/SMN - Buffs/resets TP
COR/SMN - Buffs/resets TP
GEO - Buffs, sub can be anything, wish they could also /SMN (ML30 can /whm to provide Auspice)
RDM/SMN - Buffs/Debuffs/resets TP
TANK - Holds hate while kiting
If you have ML45 RDM, could have RDM tank/kite with /RUN, and use a SMN main or another job/SMN
Strat is similar to mage method at first, get Aminon to use Bane, Bind/Sleep while you buff/debuff, then apply Gravity II and kite, using mew to zero its TP. Aminon doesn't have regain, but Save TP+100 instead, gaining 100 TP with every auto attack, even if they hit for 0. Since you're kiting, it shouldn't be able to attack and gain TP. Also, it'll draw in on every TP move, but with mew, the tank should be free to run around the large arena. The only caveat to this strategy is being able to kill before gravity wears. At best, you'll only have 2 gravity debuffs, the first landing with little resistance and using stymie for the 2nd. Also, if it ends up getting TP to use Incessant Void, it shouldn't be the end of the attempt, although it'll be immune to gravity at that point, so should finish up quickly by that point.
I don't think anyone will try this anytime soon, but maybe once primes are completed and people want to *** around with their new shinies, they might try this for fun. I used monk in this setup, but really any DD should be fine provided TP is under control.
Party Setup
MNK/DRG - Damage source, keeps 75 subtle blow in TP/WS, sheds hate with jumps
BRD/SMN - Buffs/resets TP
COR/SMN - Buffs/resets TP
GEO - Buffs, sub can be anything, wish they could also /SMN (ML30 can /whm to provide Auspice)
RDM/SMN - Buffs/Debuffs/resets TP
TANK - Holds hate while kiting
If you have ML45 RDM, could have RDM tank/kite with /RUN, and use a SMN main or another job/SMN
Strat is similar to mage method at first, get Aminon to use Bane, Bind/Sleep while you buff/debuff, then apply Gravity II and kite, using mew to zero its TP. Aminon doesn't have regain, but Save TP+100 instead, gaining 100 TP with every auto attack, even if they hit for 0. Since you're kiting, it shouldn't be able to attack and gain TP. Also, it'll draw in on every TP move, but with mew, the tank should be free to run around the large arena. The only caveat to this strategy is being able to kill before gravity wears. At best, you'll only have 2 gravity debuffs, the first landing with little resistance and using stymie for the 2nd. Also, if it ends up getting TP to use Incessant Void, it shouldn't be the end of the attempt, although it'll be immune to gravity at that point, so should finish up quickly by that point.
I don't think anyone will try this anytime soon, but maybe once primes are completed and people want to *** around with their new shinies, they might try this for fun. I used monk in this setup, but really any DD should be fine provided TP is under control.
I doubt this will work. Aminon probably has resistance against repeated Bloodpacts and it has regain too. You will probably fail if you want to reset tp just with Mewing.
Much simpler solution is to use
2xDRK or DRK and DNC
BRD
WHM
COR
RDM/DRK
You can absorb-tp on DRKs, which not only takes TP off Aminon, but also gives it to DRK. DRK absorb-TP is also much stronger because Empy Hands. So you could use absorbed-TP to WS (ideally doing strong Skillchains). With tactical roll on top of that you should get TP pretty fast. DNC is also an option to replace one DRK, because it can get TP with steps without feeding TP and can close SC with 99k climactic Rudra and 99k darkness (probably even close to 99k and 99k double darkness even when used in a row with -10% WS wall).
Ofc initial tanking could be an issue before Bane, but DRK should survive it I think, especially if you mb drain III Flan outside to get 9999HP.
Edit: oh I didn't know about regain not being a thing. Maybe it could work then, but I think you doing it wrong with /smn. What's the point of /smn in your strat, when you can have rdm and geo sub /DRK and reset TP like that with much higher efficiency? Also afaik Aminon still swing AOE when kited right? I think you will have huge problem using Cait from sub to get close for Mewing before you get one shooted from auto attack, but that is just additional reason against it, less important than previous ones stupid phone autocorrects /smn to /send...
Much simpler solution is to use
2xDRK or DRK and DNC
BRD
WHM
COR
RDM/DRK
You can absorb-tp on DRKs, which not only takes TP off Aminon, but also gives it to DRK. DRK absorb-TP is also much stronger because Empy Hands. So you could use absorbed-TP to WS (ideally doing strong Skillchains). With tactical roll on top of that you should get TP pretty fast. DNC is also an option to replace one DRK, because it can get TP with steps without feeding TP and can close SC with 99k climactic Rudra and 99k darkness (probably even close to 99k and 99k double darkness even when used in a row with -10% WS wall).
Ofc initial tanking could be an issue before Bane, but DRK should survive it I think, especially if you mb drain III Flan outside to get 9999HP.
Edit: oh I didn't know about regain not being a thing. Maybe it could work then, but I think you doing it wrong with /smn. What's the point of /smn in your strat, when you can have rdm and geo sub /DRK and reset TP like that with much higher efficiency? Also afaik Aminon still swing AOE when kited right? I think you will have huge problem using Cait from sub to get close for Mewing before you get one shooted from auto attack, but that is just additional reason against it, less important than previous ones stupid phone autocorrects /smn to /send...
Papesse posted earlier that Mew is unnerfed against Aita, so it's possible that it's also the same for Aminon. Considering that bind and gravity lands, it's possible SE just didn't implement the standard suite of nerfs to any of the NMs, but you're right in that it's untested outside of Pergatory saying it worked on cor/smn.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't do autos while sufficiently out of range. Early attempts leading to recover while kiting with Bind/Grav2 was just him walking slowly, even being pinned at certain spots with some wiggling. This also brought to light the save tp/non-regain as absorb-tp would eventually stop absorbing while bound/slept, coupled with his tp gain even hitting a blu for 0 the whole time.
But yeah, this is just a theoretical alternative that's probably worse, but some crazy person might just hate mage method that much to try it. In actuality, this could potentially be used in mage method, kiting with Grav2 up for the last 25% and having the geo hug his *** with indi-malaise, reducing the constant frequency of casting stoneskin/absorb-tp. It'll be slower than just keeping him stationary with a BoG/Ea malaise, but might help a group who just wants the clear/title.
Edit: For a possible strat that doesn't involve proccing bane, another theoretical approach is opening with stymie sleep before it can even use incessant void, apply Grav2/Distract3, then wake it up with shell crusher/dia 3 and immediately zerg it down, assuming you can AF/AC Mew. At this point, you have to kill it before Grav wears and unsure if mew works while it is in its post-void mode, but if it does, this would work and you can pop all SPs right at the beginning.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't do autos while sufficiently out of range. Early attempts leading to recover while kiting with Bind/Grav2 was just him walking slowly, even being pinned at certain spots with some wiggling. This also brought to light the save tp/non-regain as absorb-tp would eventually stop absorbing while bound/slept, coupled with his tp gain even hitting a blu for 0 the whole time.
But yeah, this is just a theoretical alternative that's probably worse, but some crazy person might just hate mage method that much to try it. In actuality, this could potentially be used in mage method, kiting with Grav2 up for the last 25% and having the geo hug his *** with indi-malaise, reducing the constant frequency of casting stoneskin/absorb-tp. It'll be slower than just keeping him stationary with a BoG/Ea malaise, but might help a group who just wants the clear/title.
Edit: For a possible strat that doesn't involve proccing bane, another theoretical approach is opening with stymie sleep before it can even use incessant void, apply Grav2/Distract3, then wake it up with shell crusher/dia 3 and immediately zerg it down, assuming you can AF/AC Mew. At this point, you have to kill it before Grav wears and unsure if mew works while it is in its post-void mode, but if it does, this would work and you can pop all SPs right at the beginning.
One thing I'm unsure of is if the Mewing nerf is in effect in Sortie. In Odyssey Gaol, every time you Mewing an enemy it gains a resistance to Mewing for 60 seconds that gradually decreases over time. You can go again after 30 sec for good results, but any sooner will not be very effective.
We didn't really get an opportunity to gauge this because we had so many Absorb-TPs going off that I don't think Mewing was doing much for us in the first place, it already had really low TP.
So it's possible you'll max out Mewing's effectiveness going every 30 seconds which only requires one SMN or two /SMN. In Gaol that wasn't enough to compensate for enemy TP gain and we had to throw in a BLU to help. In this case though, if your plan is still to get him in dark mode, you might as well have your mages bring /DRK just like the mage strat does. (Well maybe not the WHM as they'd need to be in Dark Arts to land it, but the RDM and GEO for sure.) I also like Simon's idea of using DRK DD since they can Absorb-TP nicely as well. That'll also give you Soul Enslavement for a final push.
Another concern I have is that Aminon has a lot of HP. If DDs can do enough damage to take him out in a timely fashion, I'm not sure a tank will be able to keep hate off them to kite it.
We didn't really get an opportunity to gauge this because we had so many Absorb-TPs going off that I don't think Mewing was doing much for us in the first place, it already had really low TP.
So it's possible you'll max out Mewing's effectiveness going every 30 seconds which only requires one SMN or two /SMN. In Gaol that wasn't enough to compensate for enemy TP gain and we had to throw in a BLU to help. In this case though, if your plan is still to get him in dark mode, you might as well have your mages bring /DRK just like the mage strat does. (Well maybe not the WHM as they'd need to be in Dark Arts to land it, but the RDM and GEO for sure.) I also like Simon's idea of using DRK DD since they can Absorb-TP nicely as well. That'll also give you Soul Enslavement for a final push.
Another concern I have is that Aminon has a lot of HP. If DDs can do enough damage to take him out in a timely fashion, I'm not sure a tank will be able to keep hate off them to kite it.
Well DDs can go /DRG like Svens suggested and just high/super jump and keep resetting whole hate.
I mean, it is a ton of HP to chew through, not sure if jumps will be enough even with random deal/wc resetting them. On top of that, there's also killing before gravity wears, which I don't even know the possible duration of. For now, it's just something to think about for fun as I'm sure once people finish their stage4/5 prime weapons, they'll probably want a long break from mage method.
KujahFoxfire said: »
Yeah completely baffled by this one. No Epeo, No liement. The only thing I can think of is that it never popped any fetters before Vivi, we only got fetters from the flaming kick used after.
Been killed by Degei Vivesection (obviously no fetters) so I'd be surprised if Aita's worked differently. Could this be the fabled change in behavior if a Prime Weapon is present?
SimonSes said: »
Well DDs can go /DRG like Svens suggested and just high/super jump and keep resetting whole hate.
Did someone say sub /DRG?
KujahFoxfire said: »
So uh we just survived Vivisection on H boss after 3 mins, full party hit and no idea why we lived.
We had 0 fetters up when it used it, it full dispelled everyone but damage was perfectly fine.
Comp was RDM BLM SCH RUN GEO COR, RUN SP2 was not applied, had mnks roll and was using MB strat, any ideas why we lived?
Edit: also no metal
We had 0 fetters up when it used it, it full dispelled everyone but damage was perfectly fine.
Comp was RDM BLM SCH RUN GEO COR, RUN SP2 was not applied, had mnks roll and was using MB strat, any ideas why we lived?
Edit: also no metal
We just survived a vivisection from H boss a few days ago. No metal, no fetters, only took about 50% hp from us.
How exactly does the WS wall work in sortie now? Not asking for any practical reasons just curious.
Wasn't it like a 90% reduction when they bugged it at the start of basement addition but clearly doesn't work that way now.
Does ABCD bosses even have it? assume basement only.
I notice a lot of time on basement bosses when brd and cor are doing savage blade they appear to trigger a 10-20% reduction for most of the fight, it never seems to go much beyond that and seems to not reset even with other WS between.
Almost all of these savages came in pairs, with 2-3 non savage blade weapon skills between them, last few were actually seperated and didn't happen in a pair and that last savage blade was an overkill without second hit/offhand landing.
This is on dhartok with soulvoice songs and blaze/ea frailty + fury + dia2 + light shot + armor break + warcry, 51-56k is their normal on this boss.
Wasn't it like a 90% reduction when they bugged it at the start of basement addition but clearly doesn't work that way now.
Does ABCD bosses even have it? assume basement only.
I notice a lot of time on basement bosses when brd and cor are doing savage blade they appear to trigger a 10-20% reduction for most of the fight, it never seems to go much beyond that and seems to not reset even with other WS between.
Code
COR: 53817 BRD: 51762 COR: 40260 BRD: 43236 COR: 44235 BRD: 39555 - Cesspool down, not sure how potent the str down is. COR: 41768 BRD: 39555 COR: 41768 BRD: 40793 BRD: 42329 COR: 41652 BRD: 44286 COR: 35503
Almost all of these savages came in pairs, with 2-3 non savage blade weapon skills between them, last few were actually seperated and didn't happen in a pair and that last savage blade was an overkill without second hit/offhand landing.
This is on dhartok with soulvoice songs and blaze/ea frailty + fury + dia2 + light shot + armor break + warcry, 51-56k is their normal on this boss.
BG wiki says this about Dhartok:
Possesses a cumulative damage resistance wall to repeated Weapon Skills, similar to that of Dynamis Divergence Wave 3's Mega Boss.
So it seems you're right about him
ABCD do not have any WS walling at all, they melt to anything and everything
I've never noticed any repeated WS reduction on F, G, or H
Possesses a cumulative damage resistance wall to repeated Weapon Skills, similar to that of Dynamis Divergence Wave 3's Mega Boss.
So it seems you're right about him
ABCD do not have any WS walling at all, they melt to anything and everything
I've never noticed any repeated WS reduction on F, G, or H
It's a 10 second window where using the same WS will result in lower damage based on amount of times used.
According to long_horned's testing, it's -10%→-25%→-40%→-60%→-85%.
It should apply to all basement major bosses, as this was implemented for V21+ and E-H specifically. Since there's no timestamps on those numbers it's hard to tell how much the effect was impacting these for you.
According to long_horned's testing, it's -10%→-25%→-40%→-60%→-85%.
It should apply to all basement major bosses, as this was implemented for V21+ and E-H specifically. Since there's no timestamps on those numbers it's hard to tell how much the effect was impacting these for you.
They were only a few seconds apart, was just a straight up zerg start to finish.
Seems they got reduced by 25%~ but never went further and stayed at 25%, which is what prompted the question.
After they appeared to be reduced by 20-25% (fairly quickly into the zerg) there were multiple instances of them being used back to back (almost all of them were used together with resolution/upheaval inbetween the savage pairs, but they didn't seem to get reduced further.
If that link translated correctly, a Savage > savage > Upheaval > Resolution > Savage situation should have that last savage blade return to no damage penalty no?
Seems they got reduced by 25%~ but never went further and stayed at 25%, which is what prompted the question.
After they appeared to be reduced by 20-25% (fairly quickly into the zerg) there were multiple instances of them being used back to back (almost all of them were used together with resolution/upheaval inbetween the savage pairs, but they didn't seem to get reduced further.
If that link translated correctly, a Savage > savage > Upheaval > Resolution > Savage situation should have that last savage blade return to no damage penalty no?
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