Official BLM Epeen Vs SCH Epeen Thread!! Keep These Fights Clean!

wait wut?

Pretty sure they changed it before that, but I'm also pretty sure that if someone had killed AV since then it would have been heard about.

Do you know that he beat AV, or did you just notice he has Mars's and Ninurta's and looked to see when they first showed up in his equip history? None of his gear shows up before that time, so that would be when he signed up for the site. Otherwise it's also possible that he got them from someone who was quitting the game as they're rare, not exclusive.

I really doubt that this would be the first anyone heard about AV being killed 4 months ago, as there are a lot of people that would like to know how it was done.

Oh and Dasva, there's screenshots on that link I posted of several helixes for over 130 damage, so the maths isn't really necessary, all that matters is that it's possible, and therefor a one shot kill is theoretically possible, but hasn't been achieved yet due to the difficulty of the timing.

Sorry meant blm/sch and sch/blm

Meh didn't see it. Bet I could do more math to prove its theoretically possible with 8 MVs making the timing that much easier. That being said having somethign to back calculate mob int and/or MDB would help make things alot more percise

Well you'd need 260 damage, which I think is a stretch even on a much easier NM?

Stretch under normal circumstances yes. However using things like int pot (+10-50% int) Double SV etude for like what was that another 56? Um Pimp gear I mean Ents can be improved especially if you gear more for dmg since gunna ES the helix. I bet could probably put a good 10-20 more MAB on him. Get cor to roll you another I think the max is 17MAB get a blu to diffusion momento mori for another 20MAB. I mean I calculated Clin to be able to hit 216 even with his resist set with just double SV etude. Granted AV might have some MDB I seriously doubt it has as much as 150 int though. It' should be possible. I've seen mid 200s on proto-omega on ok geard schs taht were there mostly to buff and /rdm without and help or other buffs. And that was with luminiohelix so losing 7 int there or cryo.

Really I wouldn't be suprised if you could heat 400 on a normal nm with a pt of jobs helping boost your dmg and meds and such.

I know this is definitely a stretch, but Dorje also, would improve damage more than HQ staves, and considering M.ACC isn't a factor, there's really no reason to worry about it.

Only if you have less then 68 MAB before staff!!! So really thats just 44 from gear and abilities... really not to hard do though depends on which is more important where int or MAB. Though with all that probably have enough it to make it become more balanced lol. Well actually who knows with all that you might cap dint.

Oh oh use morganas Cotehardie and of course novio too!

1. What's keeping BLM/SCH from happening is that it's HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. I mentioned this but you obviously didn't read it. They have absolutely no survivability and regardless their sublimation is weak and they get half as many charges.

2. I'm not going to screenshot it because I don't care enough to spend the time getting on my SCH, screen shotting, then getting on my BLM, screen shotting, and posting it so everyone can see. Anyone who has played with my SCH can testify to this fact. I'm not really interested in proving it to anyone else anyway. I'm just speaking from my experience and it's not my problem whether you believe it or you don't.

3. Yes, it is more difficult for a SCH to hit 120/320, as I mentioned. But it is still possible, and without making much more of a sacrifice than a BLM is required to make. Yeah, on BLM you're probably not going to be using your Zenith Mitts or your Uggalepih Pendant if you want to be over 120/320 either. And on SCH, no, you don't have to sacrifice your earrings to hit it.

4. BLM's DoTs are nowhere near in the same league as Helix spells. Even with all 3 elemental DoTs up the damage is not even close to comparable to a Helix.

5. And again, BLM/SCH is totally HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE. And even if they get dark arts, yeah, they miss out on /RDM which in fact gives more fast cast than /SCH, while SCH/RDM gets the benefits of both AND has a lot more fast cast gear at their disposal, such as relic hat and AF boots.

This information is not at all "misunderstood" or "edited." You can feel free to think that \O_o/ you asked a question and I gave you an answer. I suppose you have just never played with a good SCH before.

Will you have my SCH babies Nezea?

Would just like to point out that even though sublimation is only 2/3 for sub, you get auto refresh body too so blm ends up being only one tick behind for mp regen.

Hmmm perhaps you missed his point. Sch needs to use 2 charges just to keep up with a blm/sch using just 1. Who cares about sublimation? We have this funny thing called rdms refreshing us that make sublimation look silly. And survivability means nothing when not a single attack gets anywhere near you. There are plenty of times when blm/sch is a good idea even without any support like someone giving them stoneskin or such.

Soooo... what if you don't have a RDM to refresh you in your PT... and who's to say if theres a RDM in a SCH PT that we dont use sublimination and get refreshed too? since you think it's that much better.

I absolutely love playing devils advocate in case you couldn't tell.

This is completely absurd. A SCH never needs any SJ except /RDM. There is absolutely no situation where I would choose any other SJ.

I don't know where I was when people decided Auto-Regen was a requirement for main healing. Same with Divine Seal. It's nice to have I suppose but not at all necessary, especially when you consider that Rapture is almost just as good and usable once a minute. Not worth sacrificing the benefits of /RDM for this - faster cast/recast, better enfeebles, better buffs. MND boost from /WHM is negligible.

I don't know where you get the idea we need to use a charge every time we use -na. Had a good laugh about this one. You should probably do some research on how SCH actually works.

/BLM is, similarly, completely unnecessary for nuking. INT bonus is negligible. MAB bonus, I suppose, is nice, but SCH can nuke more than hard enough without it. SCH MACC is good enough without ES; even if this were not the case, it's not worth subbing /BLM and losing Fast Cast, Blink, Stoneskin, Phalanx, Gravity, Bind, etc. just to get a JA that can enhance the accuracy of a nuke once every 10 minutes.

Well if I don't have a rdm in my pt it means /sch helps me even more since I'll be using sublimation vs um no refresh. As far as you using refresh. Fine do it. That completely puts us on a lvl playing field as far as getting mp is concerned

Yes i do, because it's as dumb as BLM/SCH solo... you have no survivability at all what-so-ever on anything that matters. Which is also pretty stupid.

Who the *** said anything about a blm/sch soloing? Other than things like campaign or 1 shotting stuff why would you ever solo on blm/sch?

Edit: er elementals or anything that cast alot that you can sleep I guess too

Ok, I'd like to point out that a BLM/SCH can't rest while their sublimation is up either.



A good SCH does not need 2 charges to keep up. Weather bonus alone will make up for more than the extra MAB the BLM has. Further, we are talking about BLM and SCH here - not introducing other jobs into the picture. Forget about the RDM because you're not always going to have one. If we're gonna play that game, let's bring a COR into the picture for the SCHs \O_o/ they still win.

Yeah, you are right, survivability means nothing when not a single attack gets anywhere near you, but this is not a very common situation. Most things you're manaburning, BLMs are gonna have hate at one point or another. If you're dead, the extra MP you save from /SCH does you no good. BLM/SCH does have its place, it's just not very practical in the majority of situations.

I was doing some math just a few minutes ago on this.

All 3 Elemental debuffs (12/tic)
Foe Requiem 6 (11/tic)
Poison II (10/tic)
Bio III (9/tic)

That's a total of 42 per tic, maximum without Soul Voice.

Now, to compare with that, SCH would need to do a Helix that does 42 damage every 3 seconds, or 126 damage. That's just to COMPARE. I've done twice that much easily, and that's 84 damage every 3 seconds or 28 damage per second.

Now, on the other hand, let's look at nuking DPS.

Let's say we have an average 1400 nuke from a SCH, and let's say they're SCH/RDM so they can do 5 nukes in 1 minute if they're nuking hard.
1400*5=7000.
7000/60=116 damage per second.

Likewise, say we have an average 1500 nuke from a BLM, and they're BLM/RDM so they can do 3.5/minute if they're nuking hard.
1500*3.5=5250.
5250/60=87.5 damage per second.

116 DPS for SCH.
87.5 DPS for BLM.

That shouldn't be any news to anyone at this point, as BLM is more of a spike damage job whereas SCH is going for total damage over time.

Now, combine that 116 with the aforementioned 28 from Helix, and you have 144.

Now let's combine all of the above DoTs with BLM's.

BLM has 101.5 DPS.
SCH has 144 DPS.

And that's provided BLM (by some miracle) got Bio III and Requiem VI.

You guys still don't see why SCH is better overall?

Your gunna have to explain how +10% dmg from weather more than makes up for the extra 18-22MAB blms get from just job trait/merit. Also note you lose 5 int to wear that obi. Let alone how much more they can get from gear over a sch not just because better gear selection but also due to not needing no where near as much skill/macc gear.

Sure. This is because a SCH/RDM will typically have more INT than a BLM/RDM, despite having less MAB. Especially if they are fully merited and using Hailstorm.

No one really questioned weather sch/rdm can out dps a blm/rdm. Though I might question why only 3.5 nukes a min to a sch doing 5? Can't be a matter of mp since both can nuke more than that easy even without any kind of refresh. Also this thread is titled epeen. So really one coule infer from that and from the Korpgs rules that its about spike dmg. Which is preferrable in situations of easily blink tanked NMs with nasty tp moves. For similar reasons you wont melee them even if your melees way way outdps that.

10% damage boost is equal to roughly 15 MAB on SCH/RDM with average gear.

Wait what? You do realize blms have the highest int in the game right? Sure its only a couple higher then sch but still. In fact that little bit lower plus me using witch sash vs you using obi and fully meritted SS with hailstorm actually even out exactly.

Kind of redundant as you already mentioned that in your first post.

And you failed to mention it when you made your counterargument. Thought it was worth mentioning again.

Doing the math for 10% to be equal to 15 MAB you'd need a base MAB of exactly 50 so 30 from gear. Not sure if I'd call that average but it should be doable. Further math since 10% is so easy shows you'd need a total of 80 MAB for +10% dmg to equal +18MAB and like 120MAB for 10% dmg to equal +22MAB

Also /blm is only 4MAB greater than /rdm.

The difference is because of the equipment choice between SCH and BLM. A SCH's nuking gear will be made up of more +INT gear than +MAB, and vice versa for BLM, simply because of the choices that are available. The rest of the difference in damage was already explained by Enternius.

Even if the damage still differs by a few percentage points, it's a little exaggerated to say a SCH needs to use an extra charge to keep up. That extra charge will push the SCH's damage WELL above the BLM's, not just make it comparable.

Actually, to be honest, for efficiency's sake, using only parsimony is much better than trying to keep up with per-nuke damage.