Orc Ambuscade V1

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2010-06-21
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Orc Ambuscade V1
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-04-08 09:52:55  
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
We did a few more runs the day after and got it down to less than 5 mins a run but then no point since your warp ring isn't going to be fast enough anyways lol.
Nice thing about BLU/BLM is you got D2 access without having to run to the Nomad Moogle before Recall-Jugner!
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-08 09:56:11  
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
Wotasu said: »
I have good gear for my whm and it takes me 1-3 casts, most times 2 immunobreaks, rarely 1st cast.

No need to silence if you can just straight up kill them like in this video. BLM died in like 2 WS
YouTube Video Placeholder

We did a few more runs the day after and got it down to less than 5 mins a run but then no point since your warp ring isn't going to be fast enough anyways lol.

That is such a dumb thing to do. Relying so heavily on RNG. DRK not being silenced has a chance of dread spikes. RUN not being silenced uses Shock spikes. BLM not being silenced uses Death. Not silencing has so many risks that it's dumb not to do it. Not like WHM is doing much healing, they may aswell be debuffing/silencing.
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By Wotasu 2020-04-08 10:02:57  
malakef said: »
The whm in our group is absolutely BIS so I can’t really comment on any differences you see or where the threshold for MACC lies. You can tell though that the drk wasn’t silenced in the video I did since it cast dreadspikes and we turned and the cor just dark shot dispelled it. If you aren’t as fast with this stuff and your party members are not as on the ball then yeah I’d just tp on others and WS on the drk. This is month there isn’t a wrong way just different levels of fast ways.
Oh when I say good gear, aside from R15 Yagrush and the new Macc stuff from Odyssey I have the rest pretty much.
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By Afania 2020-04-08 10:19:14  
malakef said: »
The whm in our group is absolutely BIS so I can’t really comment on any differences you see or where the threshold for MACC lies.

If you have absolute BiS then you didn't address the issue that I mentioned, lol.

Very few people are career WHM with "absolute BiS", most just get an Inyanga+2 set, ambu club and some MACC accessories then be done with it. That isn't good enough to "land easily" if I remember correctly. The MACC requirement is much higher than other ambu I believe.
 
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By 2020-04-08 10:28:07
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-08 10:31:00  
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
Obviously you haven't watch the video lol. What do dread spike and shock spike have to do with us if we don't ever melee them? xD

No point watching a video if someone if just trying to promote a video of a strat already used and shown just for the sake of self promotion.
 
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By 2020-04-08 10:32:44
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-08 10:35:06  
Use common sense. People read no need to silence. People go in thinking they have nothing to worry about. They go die. All of that to make people watch your video to know the strat.
 Valefor.Yandaime
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By Valefor.Yandaime 2020-04-08 10:36:22  
malakef said: »
The whm in our group is absolutely BIS so I can’t really comment on any differences you see or where the threshold for MACC lies.

And my RDM is also in all BiS. Only items missing are Regal Cuffs, Snotra and Ullr -- Mostly an issue where I haven't figured out a ruling for GS to disable Ranged and Ammo swaps while Melee so I don't have to make an entire new Toggle just to use it. Regardless, RDM's MAcc will always outclass WHM's.

ItemSet 372211

Somewhere around 1300-1400 MAcc after MND. Had no problems at all landing anything else, only Silence and it was never a "Completely Resists" was always an Immunobreak message. That tells me it's hitting but the mob's Resist Silence traits are flipping me off?
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-08 10:37:42  
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
why does it matter if a strat is already used. it works perfectly! why go for something no one else can replicate? isn't that more "self promotion"?

The problem is why make a video in the first place if the strat is already out there? What was the point.

Making a video on something new that people may or may not be able to replicate will obviously self promote your stuff, but at least it's probably exciting to watch because it's not been done before.
 
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-08 10:40:30  
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Use common sense. People read no need to silence. People go in thinking they have nothing to worry about. They go die. All of that to make people watch your video to know the strat.
lol @this. are you implying people don't know how to read and don't know how to evaluate a good strat? what's wrong with watching a video? I watch them all the time lol.

You act like people are smart on this forum. Come on now. People skim read most the ***on here then try copy it. If they gotta watch a video, not many do and they'll find out why they died or perhaps struggled.
 
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By 2020-04-08 10:42:41
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 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2020-04-08 10:47:04  
It's an 18 year old game. If stuck-at-home lonely 30 year olds wanna make a video about it rather than watch 14 hours of COVID-19 coverage, more power to 'em.

Better than some of the "what I'm doing stuck at home" ***I've seen lately.
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 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2020-04-08 10:47:26  
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Making a video on something new that people may or may not be able to replicate will obviously self promote your stuff, but at least it's probably exciting to watch because it's not been done before.
the amount of dodge and deflecting is amazing here. /shakehead xD

No deflecting at all. You said:
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
lol @this. are you implying people don't know how to read and don't know how to evaluate a good strat? what's wrong with watching a video? I watch them all the time lol.
I replied:
Asura.Shiraj said: »
You act like people are smart on this forum.

Sounds like you're one of those people that can't read.
Everything you questioned I answered.
Doing anything to make yourself look morally superior cos you are making any excuse to self promote...
 
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By 2020-04-08 10:54:55
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 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-04-08 11:05:55  
All I care about lurkers knowing is that you have hate on everything once you aggro, so stop initiating fights by Flashing the boss and instead Foil and/or Pflug. Surprised this is still an issue.
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By Afania 2020-04-08 12:18:50  
Silence really isn't required with cleave strat IMO. You can probably skip it in melee strat too if DDs turn immediately after casting starts.

Or if BRD repeatly interrupts cast with sleeps.

Orrrrr if DD TP on other mobs then WS on the DRK.

Plenty of ways to solve this issue.
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By aisukage 2020-04-08 12:31:44  
Asura.Shiraj said: »
Ragnarok.Ayami said: »
Wotasu said: »
I have good gear for my whm and it takes me 1-3 casts, most times 2 immunobreaks, rarely 1st cast.

No need to silence if you can just straight up kill them like in this video. BLM died in like 2 WS
YouTube Video Placeholder

We did a few more runs the day after and got it down to less than 5 mins a run but then no point since your warp ring isn't going to be fast enough anyways lol.

That is such a dumb thing to do. Relying so heavily on RNG. DRK not being silenced has a chance of dread spikes. RUN not being silenced uses Shock spikes. BLM not being silenced uses Death. Not silencing has so many risks that it's dumb not to do it. Not like WHM is doing much healing, they may aswell be debuffing/silencing.

to be honest Ayami did say "IF YOU CAN just straight up kill them like in this video" (this isn't saying everyone can accomplish this strat and should be the only way it can be done.)

you're the one saying it's dumb when in fact it works. There are multiple methods like BLU AOE Cleaving, Range attacks (Method of the video referenced), TPing on boss to WS DRK+RUN adds to avoid spikes. These all don't require silence. You've basically got 1 method stuck in your head that you know that works and saying all other methods are dumb and arguing over it.
 Leviathan.Kingkitt
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By Leviathan.Kingkitt 2020-04-08 12:42:37  
Afania said: »
Silence really isn't required with cleave strat IMO. You can probably skip it in melee strat too if DDs turn immediately after casting starts.

Or if BRD repeatly interrupts cast with sleeps.

Orrrrr if DD TP on other mobs then WS on the DRK.

Plenty of ways to solve this issue.

Asura.Shiraj said: »
Use common sense. People read no need to silence. People go in thinking they have nothing to worry about. They go die. All of that to make people watch your video to know the strat.

We don't silence anything in our strat. Brd sleeps everything at start, drg spams leg sweep on drk and blm, brd and cor tp/ws freely. No issues with spikes or death. Downfall is 10m runs, but also dd brd and subpar cor for dps.

It works though!
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2020-04-08 12:51:13  
Odin.Llewelyn said: »
All I care about lurkers knowing is that you have hate on everything once you aggro, so stop initiating fights by Flashing the boss and instead Foil and/or Pflug. Surprised this is still an issue.
I think it's important to note that this is an ambuscade specific mechanic.(Although technically incursion is like this too.) Almost anywhere else you would need to tag the mobs, or a person who has acted on the mobs, to get on the hatelist before using your self targeted enmity actions.

So I want people to know they can do this in Ambuscade, but I don't want them thinking they can do things that way elsewhere.
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 Bahamut.Balduran
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By Bahamut.Balduran 2020-04-10 04:31:07  
Here is a video from tank perspective of this months ambuscade.

PLD MNK SAM GEO BRD White
BRD Song: March March Madrigal Minuet
Geomancy: Indi-Fury Geo-Frailty (Partial Indi-focus)
White Enhancing Magic: Barfira Baramnesra

At the start BRD applies 4 dummy songs on the group then we split up for songs accordingly (No Pianissimo). Marches and Ballads for PLDGEOBRDWhite, and Marches Madrigal Minuet for MNKSAM. GEO used Indi-focus in the start to ensure silence lands on the warlock, though I believe, it may not be required as it is quite possible to take the Warlock down in a 2-step light if your DD can time the WS during the Orc JA/Casting window. SAM proceeds to take down the Orcs while remaining vigilant to their Dread Spikes. MNK proceeds to destroy the mega boss with Formless Strikes used midway. BRD and GEO assist with Finale and Dispels accordingly as the SAM switches target. Meanwhile MNK is trigging Mega Boss SP and removing the yellow aura. Majesty Cure, Flash, and Blank Gaze take care of Mega Boss enmity reset without issues, Jettatura though for some reason didn't.

This took us around 2~3minutes.

If you have any feedback or suggestions to improve the strategy please share! Below is the video of the fight, but unfortunately without sound.

***Edit*** - updated to MNK+SAM video, formless strikes on Mega Boss, clear time reduced to around 2~3 minutes only.

YouTube Video Placeholder
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By SimonSes 2020-04-10 06:00:11  
If you split like that on BRD is easier to make 2 real marches on everyone and 2 dummy songs, then split and only add ballads to one group and madrigal and minuet to 2nd group. 2 songs cast less, but you wanted to optimize so..
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By malakef 2020-04-10 07:09:06  
If you time your sc right you can just kill it dead and bypass that last invincible which could shave off a good chunk.
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By Bahamut.Balduran 2020-04-10 08:34:19  
SimonSes said: »
If you split like that on BRD is easier to make 2 real marches on everyone and 2 dummy songs, then split and only add ballads to one group and madrigal and minuet to 2nd group. 2 songs cast less, but you wanted to optimize so..

Thank you very much for pointing this out Baniak. I purposely emphasized on the splitting songs method since I was hoping one of the BRD veterans would make a comment on that, and I am glad you did. Reason for this is every single Japanese BRD or Japanese party that I've played with are using this splitting method, while 100% of the non-JP BRDs that I've played with were using Pianissimo to Ballad the mages. Now I have no idea about the mechanics of BRD or its JA and how the song system works, I merely observed those 2 different habits. What I saw was the mages ended with 1 Ballad each instead of 2 with the latter method. At times, when I've asked non-JP BRDs to apply this method minority could get it right, and some even said their equipsets are not designed for that O_o.

Now back to the method you pointed out, it will ensure mages still get 2 ballads but it also cuts down on time because 2 less songs to sing, great! When I checked back with one of my JP bard friends, they mentioned that they purposely use 4 temporary songs instead of 2 march and 2 temps, because of 'Nightingale & Troubadour' ability time, and that after 4 songs sometimes Lullaby is required, therefore keeping the ability time. Again I have no knowledge about BRD but hope I managed to make the explanation clear and made any sense?
 Odin.Llewelyn
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By Odin.Llewelyn 2020-04-10 08:48:51  
If the BRD doesn't care about their own songs, that works. Otherwise I'd recommend:
Ballads on all > Dummy on all > Marches on all > Minuets/Madrigals on DD if you want DD songs on BRD.
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 Asura.Karumac
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By Asura.Karumac 2020-04-10 08:58:05  
So the reason that the mages end up with 1 ballad is because the BRDs are using the ballad +1 in pants slot but on non ballads have 17% duration on Inyanga pants. So when you sing everything back to back like that, your first ballad still has a shorter duration than your other songs and gets overwritten by the second ballad.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-04-10 09:06:00  
Just did a 3 BLU strat that involves spamming Entomb in max MAB set and dumping tp (Naegling or Tizona main, Maxentius offhand) on boss. Adds are petrified the entire fight, PLD main heals the group, and RDM/GEO are there for support, though, you can drop the RDM and probably a BLU and do it 4-man. Took about 7 minutes without deaths.
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By Leviathan.Isiolia 2020-04-10 09:30:41  
Asura.Karumac said: »
So the reason that the mages end up with 1 ballad is because the BRDs are using the ballad +1 in pants slot but on non ballads have 17% duration on Inyanga pants. So when you sing everything back to back like that, your first ballad still has a shorter duration than your other songs and gets overwritten by the second ballad.

Yep. It's a general consideration for overwriting songs, since gear availability means song durations aren't universal, and the song with the lowest duration is the one that gets overwritten.

In some cases you can delay using Pianissimo until songs have ticked down further, but it'd probably be easier to just start with Ballads as Llewelyn mentioned. They're at the lower end of duration so are more of a given to overwrite.
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