The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
It's possible SE wanted the content to last and added things we havent discovered yet. It is simply the first win and they thought outside the box. Keep trying and please enjoy or complain and doom and gloom like every thread now.
[+]
Did that winning Bumba group only use Gambit for Kaustra, and not Rayke as well?
Has anyone tried the Bumba Kaustra strat and learned anything? We only had time for 1 attempt today due to figuring out jobs. What we learned:
It's hard to get it past 74%. It gets a ton of TP even with people being capped subtle blow.
Dark Shot needs to actually dispel something to boost kaustra damage
Any darkness based damage including Gravitation Skillchain damage walls your Kaustra - The SCH needs to make sets for those spells that have no beneficial stats (magic damage, MAB etc) in it, so you don't do over 10k.
Impact also needs to do less than 10k.
You can do KI 1 and get the add out, and go into KI 2 and it can be in dark mode. my nq Noctohelix cured it for 55k
Gambit pulls hate from the BLU so the SCH needs to Caper after gambit (caper the blu)
Nobody takes much damage with regen and embrava so don't have to worry about that.
Kaustra doesn't last very long. Definitely need to apply it 4 times without being resisted.
to make the most of it the SCH has to start the skillchain then pop Tabula midway
for KI 1 - MNK can only use Dragon Kick to avoid skillchaining with Savage Blade
It's hard to get it past 74%. It gets a ton of TP even with people being capped subtle blow.
Dark Shot needs to actually dispel something to boost kaustra damage
Any darkness based damage including Gravitation Skillchain damage walls your Kaustra - The SCH needs to make sets for those spells that have no beneficial stats (magic damage, MAB etc) in it, so you don't do over 10k.
Impact also needs to do less than 10k.
You can do KI 1 and get the add out, and go into KI 2 and it can be in dark mode. my nq Noctohelix cured it for 55k
Gambit pulls hate from the BLU so the SCH needs to Caper after gambit (caper the blu)
Nobody takes much damage with regen and embrava so don't have to worry about that.
Kaustra doesn't last very long. Definitely need to apply it 4 times without being resisted.
to make the most of it the SCH has to start the skillchain then pop Tabula midway
for KI 1 - MNK can only use Dragon Kick to avoid skillchaining with Savage Blade
I appreciate sharing the experience, I think it will help the community to put together their strategies and really genuinely don't want to sound like a negative backseat driver here but I think the vast majority of this could've been foreseen before the fight and prepared for.
This is a long-known fact about how Dark Shot works. It's on the wiki page for all of the empyrean boots and any COR should know this.
I've typically always done SCH SC in worst possible gear to avoid doing too much damage and walling MBs, even outside of Bumba resistance.
JP strat says "It seems that after regenerating scales, the boss gains DT, and when you exceed over approx. 10,000 damage dealt, its DT goes up by about 0.75." so it seems pretty clear "don't do over 10k with anything other than helix and Kaustra" is part of the strategy.
Yes, Bumba has an elemental absorption mechanic, he has since V0? Or V15 at the very least, it's well-known, documented, and you can see the element he's absorbing by the flash when you pull him, and the flashes he does throughout the fight when he changes element. Someone should watch this and call out if it is absorbing darkness.
Or the BLU can be using spells to keep hate, as said in the JP strategy: "BLU keeps up Magic Barrier and maintains enmity with hate spells"
The JPs did 5 Kaustra (1 was a re-application after a resist) so 4 sounds about right. Seems that WC 5/6 is necessary with this strategy since 4 full duration Kaustra are impossible with a single TR.
Can also using Raging Fists, if that has stronger damage. Will give the mob more TP though so may not be worth it, depending how DK is doing.
Asura.Jokes said: »
Dark Shot needs to actually dispel something to boost kaustra damage
This is a long-known fact about how Dark Shot works. It's on the wiki page for all of the empyrean boots and any COR should know this.
Asura.Jokes said: »
Any darkness based damage including Gravitation Skillchain damage walls your Kaustra - The SCH needs to make sets for those spells that have no beneficial stats (magic damage, MAB etc) in it, so you don't do over 10k.
I've typically always done SCH SC in worst possible gear to avoid doing too much damage and walling MBs, even outside of Bumba resistance.
Asura.Jokes said: »
Impact also needs to do less than 10k.
JP strat says "It seems that after regenerating scales, the boss gains DT, and when you exceed over approx. 10,000 damage dealt, its DT goes up by about 0.75." so it seems pretty clear "don't do over 10k with anything other than helix and Kaustra" is part of the strategy.
Asura.Jokes said: »
You can do KI 1 and get the add out, and go into KI 2 and it can be in dark mode. my nq Noctohelix cured it for 55k
Yes, Bumba has an elemental absorption mechanic, he has since V0? Or V15 at the very least, it's well-known, documented, and you can see the element he's absorbing by the flash when you pull him, and the flashes he does throughout the fight when he changes element. Someone should watch this and call out if it is absorbing darkness.
Asura.Jokes said: »
Gambit pulls hate from the BLU so the SCH needs to Caper after gambit (caper the blu)
Or the BLU can be using spells to keep hate, as said in the JP strategy: "BLU keeps up Magic Barrier and maintains enmity with hate spells"
Asura.Jokes said: »
Kaustra doesn't last very long. Definitely need to apply it 4 times without being resisted.
The JPs did 5 Kaustra (1 was a re-application after a resist) so 4 sounds about right. Seems that WC 5/6 is necessary with this strategy since 4 full duration Kaustra are impossible with a single TR.
Asura.Jokes said: »
for KI 1 - MNK can only use Dragon Kick to avoid skillchaining with Savage Blade
Can also using Raging Fists, if that has stronger damage. Will give the mob more TP though so may not be worth it, depending how DK is doing.
You could just not do kaustra.
Instead of lemming your way into a strat.
Instead of lemming your way into a strat.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Can also using Raging Fists, if that has stronger damage. Will give the mob more TP though so may not be worth it, depending how DK is doing.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Or the BLU can be using spells to keep hate, as said in the JP strategy: "BLU keeps up Magic Barrier and maintains enmity with hate spells"
The BLU is doing hate spells, but you Gambit early into the fight and it pulls hate. The JP group also Capered the BLU.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
JP strat says "It seems that after regenerating scales, the boss gains DT, and when you exceed over approx. 10,000 damage dealt, its DT goes up by about 0.75." so it seems pretty clear "don't do over 10k with anything other than helix and Kaustra" is part of the strategy.
Agreed but it's surprisingly easy to hit over 10k with Impact. the RDM ideally needs to avoid geo buffs or have a set that is just magic acc without MAB etc (rdm empy obviously has a ton of magic damage stats).
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I've typically always done SCH SC in worst possible gear to avoid doing too much damage and walling MBs, even outside of Bumba resistance.
Personally I haven't and I doubt many Scholars have specific tier 1 spells and helix's to be cast in gear that completely avoids any MAB/Magic Damage/High Int (until now). It's quite easy with all the buffs you are getting to do a Gravitation over 10k even with mediocre gear on, with Gambit being fired off during the skillchain to allow time for Rayke.
Asura.Geriond said: »
Multi-hit WSs give the same TP to mobs as single hit WSs.
I didn't realize this, interesting, thanks for the heads up. The wiki page on this is a bit confusing but I think I understand what it's trying to say.
Asura.Jokes said: »
Personally I haven't and I doubt many Scholars have specific tier 1 spells and helix's to be cast in gear that completely avoids any MAB/Magic Damage/High Int (until now)
I just put on a not-very-good equipset before doing SC, but I think it would also be quite easy to set up gearswap to use crap gear for t1 nukes in general. It's not like as a SCH you're using T1 nukes and hoping for good damage under any normal scenario (that I can think of). This *should* safely apply to T1 helices as well, if you need to use them for immanence.
Were you using a SCH 6-step into Gravitation?
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I just put on a not-very-good equipset before doing SC, but I think it would also be quite easy to set up gearswap to use crap gear for t1 nukes in general. It's not like as a SCH you're using T1 nukes and hoping for good damage under any normal scenario (that I can think of). This *should* safely apply to T1 helices as well, if you need to use them for immanence.
you can hit some nice numbers with a T1 MB last minute as the skillchain window ends in sortie! lol. I'll be changing my set back once I clear this.
Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
Were you using a SCH 6-step into Gravitation?
4 Step Water > Thunder > Aero > Nocto
I edited my lua just with the 4 specified spells (sets.midcast['Thunder'] for example) and it works fine
Asura.Jokes said: »
you can hit some nice numbers with a T1 MB last minute as the skillchain window ends in sortie! lol. I'll be changing my set back once I clear this.
Oh, curious I guess the reduced casting time might make them easier to hit when trying to double (triple) burst a SC or something. I typically just burst a helix II for 10k and that lasts the rest of the fight, never even considered trying to sneak in a helix I instead, certainly not nocto or lumino (we use fire/earth on E/G).
I'm sure there's some optimization we could do with our magic burst orders to line up nukes in some precise order to increase damage, but we haven't tried to organize 2 SCH, a BLM, and a GEO into a specific order of MBs, just seems like a nightmare and only works if everyone plays perfectly to the fraction of a second.
This is the difference between groups who are already on V25 Bumba and mine, just more hardcore I guess :)
Asura.Jokes said: »
The BLU is doing hate spells, but you Gambit early into the fight and it pulls hate. The JP group also Capered the BLU.
Does anyone know if they were using Rayke at all? It should be a bigger damage boost than Gambit (and lower resist rates to boot); Bumba has a 70% darkness resistance rank when not absorbing, brought to 85% during darkness SC, so Rayke would bring it to 130%, which increases the magic burst multiplier from +85% to +150%. The transcript didn't mention it, but maybe they were just taking it as a given that they used it.
Asura.Geriond said: »
Asura.Jokes said: »
The BLU is doing hate spells, but you Gambit early into the fight and it pulls hate. The JP group also Capered the BLU.
Does anyone know if they were using Rayke at all? It should be a bigger damage boost than Gambit (and lower resist rates to boot); Bumba has a 70% darkness resistance rank when not absorbing, brought to 85% during darkness SC, so Rayke would bring it to 130%, which increases the magic burst multiplier from +85% to +150%. The transcript didn't mention it, but maybe they were just taking it as a given that they used it.
Try using Jettatura; it gives the most fixed hate of any non-UL spells, I believe.
Asura.Geriond said: »
Try using Jettatura; it gives the most fixed hate of any non-UL spells, I believe.
If you can avoid the AoE Actinic Burst has same Enmity values on a shorter recast. In general I think Exuviation is one of the best enmity spells a BLU gets, that and Fantod. Fantod's values aren't super high, but you can spam the hell out of it.
Also if you've already got a SCH for Caper having them Augeo the BLU and having the run not use Crusade to start would likely help out quite a bit. Especially if someone is only getting ~50-60 in gear enmity+ adding 20 on top would be a significant increase.
Spamming Fantod is basically all you need to do on BLU these days. However, if you really need some quick, high VE at the start, Actinic, Jettatura, and Temporal Shift are all 180/1020.
[+]
Asura.Toralin said: »
Asura.Geriond said: »
Asura.Jokes said: »
The BLU is doing hate spells, but you Gambit early into the fight and it pulls hate. The JP group also Capered the BLU.
Does anyone know if they were using Rayke at all? It should be a bigger damage boost than Gambit (and lower resist rates to boot); Bumba has a 70% darkness resistance rank when not absorbing, brought to 85% during darkness SC, so Rayke would bring it to 130%, which increases the magic burst multiplier from +85% to +150%. The transcript didn't mention it, but maybe they were just taking it as a given that they used it.
RUN more than likely rocking a lot of +EMN in all his JA sets, maybe used a foil as well.
Yeah besides the initial buffs (I do Shell V on everyone) I think I was literally only using like 5 abilities throughout the entire rest of the fight in our attempts: Tenebrae, Gambit, Rayke, Flash, and Stoneskin.
No Embolden Protect, it'll mess with Random Deals. No Foil, too much hate. No Phalanx, I had the RDM do a nice one on me that last the whole fight. No Crusade, obviously.
It was kind of weird standing around on RUN and not having abilities/spells to cycle through besides spamming Stoneskin.
Went decently well, we got it to 37% or so on Sunday and that was with MAB down aura, going to try again tonight. I did end up pulling hate on my 3rd or 4th Gambit, so I've added a low hate toggle because I was, like Taint alluded to, using full Enmity+ in my JA sets. As I should be most of the time! Hence the toggle.
If you're going to be doing this fight on RUN, I definitely recommend a way to do Gambit/Rayke with no enmity+. Our BLU possibly could've spammed more hate spells but they have a lot going on with trying to keep Bumba's TP low and keep their debuffs up for each SC cycle. Any stress you can remove from them is a huge benefit.
No Embolden Protect, it'll mess with Random Deals. No Foil, too much hate. No Phalanx, I had the RDM do a nice one on me that last the whole fight. No Crusade, obviously.
It was kind of weird standing around on RUN and not having abilities/spells to cycle through besides spamming Stoneskin.
Went decently well, we got it to 37% or so on Sunday and that was with MAB down aura, going to try again tonight. I did end up pulling hate on my 3rd or 4th Gambit, so I've added a low hate toggle because I was, like Taint alluded to, using full Enmity+ in my JA sets. As I should be most of the time! Hence the toggle.
If you're going to be doing this fight on RUN, I definitely recommend a way to do Gambit/Rayke with no enmity+. Our BLU possibly could've spammed more hate spells but they have a lot going on with trying to keep Bumba's TP low and keep their debuffs up for each SC cycle. Any stress you can remove from them is a huge benefit.
Makes sense that it would possibly pull hate on the 3rd/4th Gambit, I was picturing a single Gambit pulling hate.
Thanks for sharing your experiences, glad to hear you're getting close, it seems like a frustrating but at least viable strategy, and very fun with all the pieces to juggle and line up, though I may feel differently when actually trying to pull it off.
You can actually macro in -enmity pieces, or put merits into -enmity, if you really need to avoid pulling hate. SCH can also give Animus Minuo (if not already doing so).
Thanks for sharing your experiences, glad to hear you're getting close, it seems like a frustrating but at least viable strategy, and very fun with all the pieces to juggle and line up, though I may feel differently when actually trying to pull it off.
You can actually macro in -enmity pieces, or put merits into -enmity, if you really need to avoid pulling hate. SCH can also give Animus Minuo (if not already doing so).
Just to clarify from Perg's comment - the first Kaustra hit for ~45k, not because it was resisted, but because we had Magic Attack Down aura (The other 3 were similar, down to ~37k at the end). We were still able to push it down below 40% that fight, which bodes well for this strategy when the auras align.
[+]
Asura.Jokes said: »
Impact also needs to do less than 10k.
Doesn't matter if it does 5k, 10k, 20k, you want to aim for the least amount of damage. During one of our failed attempts from no 5/6 WC, I was testing En-spell damage on it and also using sanguines / seraph strikes. WS's did about 5k and would show lower damage on my en spells thereafter. So it's additive damage over time it seems like.
For example:
Enspell damage = 326
Slibby uses Sanguine blade for 5600
Enspell damage = 320 thereafter
Slibby uses Seraph blade for 6k
Enspell damage = 314 thereafter
^ is what I experienced.
I was thinking Impact should be cast with no magic accuracy at least 8 seconds before kaustra goes off. This would have a short duration impact while also dealing no damage at all really.
Edit: Also, I noticed when a Kaustra was reapplied with my old full duration impact, about 2 seconds before Kaustra went off it said impact wore which was unfortunate. At least with having more control over impact, you can ensure it will be up all the time for the Scholar.
Got Bumba to 3% today. Brutal. We went back in with whatever we had left on KI3 and bumba was at 7%. We did not beat it from there lol.
Kaustra should last 2mins 50 seconds or there abouts.
Kaustra should last 2mins 50 seconds or there abouts.
Asura.Jokes said: »
Got Bumba to 3% today. Brutal. We went back in with whatever we had left on KI3 and bumba was at 7%. We did not beat it from there lol.
Kaustra should last 2mins 50 seconds or there abouts.
Kaustra should last 2mins 50 seconds or there abouts.
Did you do part 2 on Darksday? (Kaustra team)
Lowest we got it to was 6% with a few mistakes, darksday.
Oh right it was MAB down aura, thanks for the clarification Baeron. Apparently Sunday was too long ago for me to remember.
3% that's crazy, sorry to hear you didn't quite get it down. That's gotta be frustrating.
This touches on something interesting we observed with Bumba V25 which is that most V25s, if you get them to say 57% and they regen up to 65% before you time out, when you go back in it would be at the lowest 5% tier you got it to (59%).
Bumba seems to usually have whatever HP he had when you timed out, not the lowest you got it to. This is how all NMs used to behave until one of the recent updates, but it seems Bumba is still acting the old way. Usually. I say "usually" because one time we got him to 74%, he regen up to like 78%, and our second fight had him at 74% again.
There's definitely something weird going on with him, or maybe he's glitched.
We've also noticed a few times we would wipe, wait for him to go back to the pop spot and reset, wait another 5-10 seconds to be sure, then Reraise and he immediately aggros from WAY outside aggro range. It seems it takes him longer to reset than most NMs, or maybe his fetters aggro even after he's reset and they're not supposed to be dealing damage. I've started waiting 60+ seconds before I get up, just to be safe.
Asura.Jokes said: »
Got Bumba to 3% today. Brutal. We went back in with whatever we had left on KI3 and bumba was at 7%. We did not beat it from there lol.
Kaustra should last 2mins 50 seconds or there abouts.
Kaustra should last 2mins 50 seconds or there abouts.
This touches on something interesting we observed with Bumba V25 which is that most V25s, if you get them to say 57% and they regen up to 65% before you time out, when you go back in it would be at the lowest 5% tier you got it to (59%).
Bumba seems to usually have whatever HP he had when you timed out, not the lowest you got it to. This is how all NMs used to behave until one of the recent updates, but it seems Bumba is still acting the old way. Usually. I say "usually" because one time we got him to 74%, he regen up to like 78%, and our second fight had him at 74% again.
There's definitely something weird going on with him, or maybe he's glitched.
We've also noticed a few times we would wipe, wait for him to go back to the pop spot and reset, wait another 5-10 seconds to be sure, then Reraise and he immediately aggros from WAY outside aggro range. It seems it takes him longer to reset than most NMs, or maybe his fetters aggro even after he's reset and they're not supposed to be dealing damage. I've started waiting 60+ seconds before I get up, just to be safe.
It was firesday and there was lots of room for improvement. Honestly I don’t think we were prepared for it to go as well so wasn’t quite ready at the end for the push (no nuking the skillchains for example).
For tomorrow I’ve changed my merits to 5/5 enlightenment for the extra int before kaustra and swapped back in archon ring over Freke.
For tomorrow I’ve changed my merits to 5/5 enlightenment for the extra int before kaustra and swapped back in archon ring over Freke.
Asura.Jokes said: »
Personally I haven't and I doubt many Scholars have specific tier 1 spells and helix's to be cast in gear that completely avoids any MAB/Magic Damage/High Int (until now).
The set has been useful for a long time. Vagary 4 and 6-step objectives, the ability to close skillchains with a helix on Leshonn/Gartell without your tank hitting the floor, and again now. Good place to fit in some subtle blow too.
[+]
Asura.Pergatory said: »
This touches on something interesting we observed with Bumba V25 which is that most V25s, if you get them to say 57% and they regen up to 65% before you time out, when you go back in it would be at the lowest 5% tier you got it to (59%).
Bumba seems to usually have whatever HP he had when you timed out, not the lowest you got it to. This is how all NMs used to behave until one of the recent updates, but it seems Bumba is still acting the old way. Usually. I say "usually" because one time we got him to 74%, he regen up to like 78%, and our second fight had him at 74% again.
Yes with this, it may actually be smarter to wait 10 min before engaging him on KI1. edit: would lose all your entrust goodies :(
did you do any beast max hp down ***? that seemed to mess up the numbers for me.
macsdf1 said: »
did you do any beast max hp down ***? that seemed to mess up the numbers for me.
We do P. Ooze -> C. Ooze then TP drain, and well be hitting him down and after the P ooze wears, his HP will jump down 10%. ie: if were hitting him down to 83% all of sudden it will goto 73%. Well continue to DD it down as far as we can before he wipes us
So just out of curiosity, I tried to see if Flabra x3 Rayke would allow a RUN to land Armor Break on V25 Arebati. Sadly, even though I have a BiS MACC set (other than +2 sortie earing), used tropical crepe, and dragged an Idris GEO along to give me Focus, I couldn't even get a 1/2 resist.
Either it's impossible, or you need an obscene amount of MACC support. The only reasonable hope for a chane to land is if it's possible to land Wind Threnody II while aura is up, which might be enough (especially if SV was up).
Either it's impossible, or you need an obscene amount of MACC support. The only reasonable hope for a chane to land is if it's possible to land Wind Threnody II while aura is up, which might be enough (especially if SV was up).
Asura.Toralin said: »
macsdf1 said: »
did you do any beast max hp down ***? that seemed to mess up the numbers for me.
We do P. Ooze -> C. Ooze then TP drain, and well be hitting him down and after the P ooze wears, his HP will jump down 10%. ie: if were hitting him down to 83% all of sudden it will goto 73%. Well continue to DD it down as far as we can before he wipes us
yeah, it's prob why ur seeing him higher than when you left him.
stuff only regens to nearest 5% for us, unless we did ooze, then it does something different for the starting hp% for 2nd KI.
All FFXI content and images © 2002-2024 SQUARE ENIX CO., LTD. FINAL
FANTASY is a registered trademark of Square Enix Co., Ltd.