The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||

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The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-08 13:55:16  
Asura.Bippin said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
DRG which requires a Kraken Club OH and the correct builds to be competitive in Seg farming (not to mention less people play DRG).
You don’t at all need a Kracken club to be competitive on DRG…

In the context that Afania is referencing from Simon in where it is the top Seg farming DD, yes it is.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2022-12-08 13:55:45  
Serjero said: »
Define competitive. If you mean serviceable in a random PUG sure but like that's true for almost everything but MNK and DNC. If you mean in comparison to a Min/Maxed WAR whose BiS the DRG isn't gonna be able to keep up without that 50% increased WS rate advantage.

DRG without Kclub already has a faster WS rate than WAR.

Personally I don’t even really like kclub DRG and find /WAR or /SAM better. Lack of judgment really sucks if you are full clearing.

To be clear by competitive I mean keeping up or beating WARs.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-08 13:57:00  
Asura.Bippin said: »
Serjero said: »
Define competitive. If you mean serviceable in a random PUG sure but like that's true for almost everything but MNK and DNC. If you mean in comparison to a Min/Maxed WAR whose BiS the DRG isn't gonna be able to keep up without that 50% increased WS rate advantage.

DRG without Kclub already has a faster WS rate than WAR.

Personally I don’t even really like kclub DRG and find /WAR or /SAM better. Lack of judgment really sucks if you are full clearing.

To be clear by competitive I mean keeping up or beating WARs.

Then you were not following the quote conversation. I am specifically talking about what Afania brought up, not competitive in a general sense. "Keeping up or beating WAR" is not top seg farming DD. SAM and NINs can do that.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-08 14:00:33  
What? You specifically used the word competitive in your response while quoting me, then used the same word in your post above, so I can only assume that last comment was a dovetail off of my original post.
 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2022-12-08 14:02:08  
My point was that kclub is not needed for DRG to be best DD for segments.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2022-12-08 14:09:59  
Ok you're moving the goalpost now but I'll clarify my comment a little bit because that comment still ignores the context of the conversation and my exchange with Afania.

Even if the statement you make about not needing kclub to be top DPS in Segs is true (and I'm not sure about that, I would like to see what build you are referring to that makes this possible), none of that was the point of my comment to Afania. She made a statement about something Simon has stated many times, how DRG is top DPS in Seg farming. However, Simon has always mentioned this in the context of a DRG with a Kraken club. So my response to Afania was with that knowledge about his thoughts in mind. I wasn't making a general statement about whether or not DRG can be competitive in seg farming without a kraken club.

Edit: I'll let Simon speak for himself on what his thinking was regarding DRG in segs. I always understood his comments about TOP DPS to be in reference to kraken club.
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 Asura.Bippin
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By Asura.Bippin 2022-12-08 14:12:46  
Fair enough and I’ll just say any decent group can easily full clear with any 3 DDs in your group.

Edit: I’ll add I play DRK WAR DRG SAM and by far DRG is my stand out for segment farms but really any DD does fine.
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By Serjero 2022-12-08 15:01:58  
Does fine isn't posting parse in chat after the run when you BTFOd the other DDs by a 10% spread and steal their F taru BRD mule from under them. C'mon we're talking true end game here.
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By IGDC 2022-12-08 15:09:52  
Serjero said: »
Does fine isn't posting parse in chat after the run when you BTFOd the other DDs by a 10% spread and steal their F taru BRD mule from under them. C'mon we're talking true end game here.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-12-09 01:56:02  
Asura.Bippin said: »
any decent group can easily full clear with any 3 DDs in your group.
You have quite the peculiar definition of "decent" there, eh

If that's what "any decent group" can do I wonder how would you define what an "outstanding" group can do in there.
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By SimonSes 2022-12-09 04:45:07  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Bippin said: »
any decent group can easily full clear with any 3 DDs in your group.
You have quite the peculiar definition of "decent" there, eh

If that's what "any decent group" can do I wonder how would you define what an "outstanding" group can do in there.

Imo getting a group of mobs from top and bottom of the stairs at floor 3 within the time limit is what will be problematic for many groups, especially pugs. It simply requires some extra planning and someone to pull them (most likely BRD). It's also much harder to do full clear if Halo pop in one of those 2 spots, because whole group running there and coming back is like 90sec of wasted time.
 Asura.Jokes
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By Asura.Jokes 2022-12-09 08:20:19  
SimonSes said: »
Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Bippin said: »
any decent group can easily full clear with any 3 DDs in your group.
You have quite the peculiar definition of "decent" there, eh

If that's what "any decent group" can do I wonder how would you define what an "outstanding" group can do in there.

Imo getting a group of mobs from top and bottom of the stairs at floor 3 within the time limit is what will be problematic for many groups, especially pugs. It simply requires some extra planning and someone to pull them (most likely BRD). It's also much harder to do full clear if Halo pop in one of those 2 spots, because whole group running there and coming back is like 90sec of wasted time.

For Halo you can send the PLD down to pull the Halo mobs and usually COR goes down to kill the fetter and run back up/down, then nobody else has to leave the floor 3 main area (unless it is worms). Leave the rest of the group to kill the trash mob groups as PLD is pulling.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-09 08:21:36  
Asura.Sechs said: »
Asura.Bippin said: »
any decent group can easily full clear with any 3 DDs in your group.
You have quite the peculiar definition of "decent" there, eh

If that's what "any decent group" can do I wonder how would you define what an "outstanding" group can do in there.

It's all about that BBC, Big Black Club.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2022-12-09 08:53:04  
"Decent" is carrying a lot of weight here. You need to clear 22 packs in 30 minutes, around 1 minute per pack, including all the time to run through the entire zone. If you have a PLD pulling that means you have 2 DDs, a BRD, and a COR. Each of those four needs to kill a mob every 7.5 seconds for the entire 30 minutes. (22 packs, plus 4 agons).

I'm sure it's possible to full clear and that people do it with all kinds of bolter's rolls, hermes quenchers (cheating flee speed), luck, insane gear, and hyper-efficiency, but I wouldn't call it anything a "decent" group can do.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-09 08:56:18  
The fourth augment on Nyame will be EP +10% for each item worn.
 Asura.Melliny
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-12-09 09:13:42  
Ironically that still wouldn't make grinding the higher tiers much more feasible.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2022-12-09 09:31:50  
Well we're grinding through it, getting one job from 40 to 50 is gonna take a few weeks. Not a big deal considering it used to take us a year to get 75.
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By Taint 2022-12-09 09:52:07  
Asura.Saevel said: »
Well we're grinding through it, getting one job from 40 to 50 is gonna take a few weeks. Not a big deal considering it used to take us a year to get 75.


To be fair almost everyone is botting this to ML50. (or paying bots) I went Locus camp hunting last night and didn't see a single legit party. I don't blame them there is WAY more to do now then during the initial 75 grind. Spending weeks grinding just so you can wear a Haubergeon sounds pretty funny at this point.
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 Asura.Volteczero
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By Asura.Volteczero 2022-12-09 10:59:50  
I completely stopped caring about ML, once I see 1m+ tnl, it completely demoralized me
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 Leviathan.Boposhopo
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By Leviathan.Boposhopo 2022-12-11 23:51:09  
Quote:
Pets summoned by bosses will no longer respawn once defeated as long as the battlefield remains occupied.
* Multiple pets may be summoned in Vengeance level 25, but they will not respawn once defeated.

So 2 moglophones to kill adds and then boss? Kind of sounds like 2 adds are going to be spawning as well. Not sure how well this could be planned out to get the right jobs for both fights, would be tough. Update
 Bahamut.Mischief
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By Bahamut.Mischief 2022-12-12 02:40:38  
V25:

Sortie WS wall is in effect (tested on Dealan-Dhe and U Bnai). Same as basement NMs.

Second add spawns at 40% (tested on U Bnai using nuke strategy) with a second 1hr usage. The aura debuff switches when this happens (went from MEVA down to MACC down). Regen spikes far higher when the second add spawns (1% every ~6 seconds). T1 Adds still have over 1M HP each.

Good luck...
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 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2022-12-12 02:48:18  
lol. lmao.
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By Ruaumoko 2022-12-12 02:50:49  
Empyrean Weapons are going to be a big deal.
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By Vaerix 2022-12-12 02:52:29  
Bahamut.Mischief said: »
V25:

Sortie WS wall is in effect (tested on Dealan-Dhe and U Bnai). Same as basement NMs.

Second add spawns at 40% (tested on U Bnai using nuke strategy) with a second 1hr usage. The aura debuff switches when this happens (went from MEVA down to MACC down). Regen spikes far higher when the second add spawns (1% every ~6 seconds). T1 Adds still have over 1M HP each.

Good luck...

Meaning 1 full power ws every 10s?

A few other questions.

Also was that wall present on the add?
Was it(wall) present from the start? (100-75%) Or did it start after the first add spawned?
Was second 1hr identical to first or different?
When the second add spawned did the adds attack the same target or different targets other than the bosses target?
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 Asura.Melliny
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-12-12 03:09:40  
If the basement sortie weaponskill wall is in effect and the second add boosts regen that sighnificantly I have no clue how we kill the tankier tier 3s. Arrebati and mboze in particular are gonna be interesting if that’s the case.
 
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 Asura.Melliny
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By Asura.Melliny 2022-12-12 03:16:40  
Oh god I just realized. That forces us to do the proc mechanics on the bumba fight. If you can’t zerg it you have to do the mechanics…and they’re completely random
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By SimonSes 2022-12-12 03:17:26  
Asura.Melliny said: »
If the basement sortie weaponskill wall is in effect and the second add boosts regen that sighnificantly I have no clue how we kill the tankier tier 3s. Arrebati and mboze in particular are gonna be interesting if that’s the case.

I have a gut feeling killing adds deactivates WS wall. Mischief told me WS wall is from the start on boss, so it seems to not be connected with adds, but I still think it's like that.

That or they simply expect us to kill both adds, which will deactivate regen right? Without Regen they should be killable with WS wall by using mix of strong WS and empy AM3.

Asura.Melliny said: »
Arrebati and mboze in particular are gonna be interesting if that’s the case.

Arebati is the least to be worred about. It was already mainly damaged by white damage from Armageddon. You cna just Last Stand on COR every 10 sec and do nothing but white damage on RNG and you wouldn't lost much dps that way.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2022-12-12 03:19:37  
How does the WS wall work exactly? Is it ANY ws? I thought it only applied to the consecutive use of SAME ws.
Sorta like the thing they implemented some time ago to counteract SMN SP2.
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