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The Odyssey - || Strategy And Discussion ||
The Odyssey - || Strategy and Discussion ||
Asura.Sechs said: »
May I ask what setup you guys used for V20 Ongo?
Sounds like a single SC+MB Geohelix2 won't be enough. Even if you're lucky enough to hit for 9999 (and without Empy+3 feet I really doubt you can) that's gonna be approximately ~160k damage, which is less than 6% of Ongo's health at V20, right?
So you basically do that, die, reraise and do another Helix?
Because surely your trusts won't survive long enough for the first helix to expire.
Sounds like a single SC+MB Geohelix2 won't be enough. Even if you're lucky enough to hit for 9999 (and without Empy+3 feet I really doubt you can) that's gonna be approximately ~160k damage, which is less than 6% of Ongo's health at V20, right?
So you basically do that, die, reraise and do another Helix?
Because surely your trusts won't survive long enough for the first helix to expire.
Sorry, I missed this question. The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orF-y65syxA
I did a Kaustra first (which was basically worthless, wouldn't recommend) and then Impact into Geohelix, which hit for 3986. It ticked down to 94% just before wearing off, but notably I did not have the JSE neck, and this was before Empy+2 came out, so there's definitely some leeway here.
Asura.Sechs said: »
Sounds like a single SC+MB Geohelix2 won't be enough. Even if you're lucky enough to hit for 9999 (and without Empy+3 feet I really doubt you can) that's gonna be approximately ~160k damage, which is less than 6% of Ongo's health at V20, right?
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Trying to wrap up V20s just in time for V25, maybe a dumb question but is there any "trick" to dealing with Denouement/Apotheosis on Xevioso?
It's generally manageable but seems to one shot at least one person every fight by doing just flat out more than they have in HP, 2.5-3K depending on who it is.
It's generally manageable but seems to one shot at least one person every fight by doing just flat out more than they have in HP, 2.5-3K depending on who it is.
My group came up with a strategy to overcome this. We were experiencing the same issue until we swapped the party comp. We run with the following setup
Run, War, Cor, Brd, Geo, Whm
Instead of bringing two DD's we bring a rune fencer in the second one's place, and have the cor and bard make up for the lost DPS. So the warrior, cor, and bard are all in melee range. Warrior spams impulse drive with shining one as usual, corsair melees for tp and weaponskills with last stand, and the bard uses evisceration. The rune isn't there to tank, although he still does his best to hold hate. But with frequent hate resets he'll lose it eventually and that's fine. The Rune's primary role is to shield the entire party with Valliance. Xevioso has no physical attacks; every single one of his TP moves is a wind based magical attack. So with three Gelus runes up Valliance cuts down Xevioso's incoming damage to the entire party by 45%. That cuts those impossible to deal with 3k + denouncements down to manageable levels. As was mentioned above
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dps check on bee and shark isn't terrible
This is correct. The warrior should be able to handle most of the heavy lifting on his own, and if your corsair is up to par his last stands should deal another good 25-35% of xevioso's HP. Between the two of them you can meet the DPS check just fine with a properly geared group, and the extra defensive benefit you get from ice rune valliance is invaluable. We've killed Xevioso pretty cleanly with this strategy multiple times. It's worth a shot if denounce is proving an issue for your group.
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Asura.Melliny said: »
Rune's primary role is to shield the entire party with Valliance.
This was incredibly helpful, paired with self-Panacea for every Att/Magic Def/Stat down on DD, WHM went from chugging double Viles every round to having nothing to do.
Thanks all!
Bismarck.Demetor said: »
is there any "trick" to dealing with Denouement/Apotheosis on Xevioso?
Asura.Warmoose said: »
Bismarck.Demetor said: »
Trying to wrap up V20s just in time for V25, maybe a dumb question but is there any "trick" to dealing with Denouement/Apotheosis on Xevioso?
Defensively running with Scherzo, Minne, Carol, Baraera. DD using a mixture of Malignance and Nyame for extra HP/Defense, WAR using Sakpata.
It's generally manageable but seems to one shot at least one person every fight by doing just flat out more than they have in HP, 2.5-3K depending on who it is. Trying to stay on top of removing Magic Def Down and reapplying Scherzo if it gets dispelled though it's possible these are the actual culprit when it happens. Just not sure if I'm missing something else obvious since seems people consider this one of the easier ones. Can sometimes stabilize but usually run into hate problems once one DD goes down with all the resets.
Having similar problems on Ngai and Puncture. If both are just a case of maybe not being fast enough on the erases, I'll try to keep a better eye out on my debuffs.
Defensively running with Scherzo, Minne, Carol, Baraera. DD using a mixture of Malignance and Nyame for extra HP/Defense, WAR using Sakpata.
It's generally manageable but seems to one shot at least one person every fight by doing just flat out more than they have in HP, 2.5-3K depending on who it is. Trying to stay on top of removing Magic Def Down and reapplying Scherzo if it gets dispelled though it's possible these are the actual culprit when it happens. Just not sure if I'm missing something else obvious since seems people consider this one of the easier ones. Can sometimes stabilize but usually run into hate problems once one DD goes down with all the resets.
Having similar problems on Ngai and Puncture. If both are just a case of maybe not being fast enough on the erases, I'll try to keep a better eye out on my debuffs.
We run WAR DNC BRD GEO COR WHM, and I think use one defensive buff from the GEO, and our WHM is a tank. But we just cure through the add.
On most V20 fights, i dont wait around for a WHM's erase. I've been eating panacea's for erase like its cool.
I'd rather mash my panacea macro than give the boss an opportunity/3 second window to murphy me while defense down is on. That may be another thing you guys can do.
For you guys using multiple dd's for xevioso are you having the dd's tp on the add and <lastst> the boss or everyone on boss and just eat the tp moves? NGL sounds like a fun strat either way.
We did it with WAR DNC BRD COR WHM SCH and just let the add bounce around with everyone in suitably defensive TP/idle sets. DDs (including BRD & COR) engaged on Xevioso itself to avoid delays removing the aura after droning.
Regen and Embrava took a lot of pressure off the WHM, which gave enough wiggle room to keep a cureskin (to prevent one-shot KO) on the DDs pretty close to fulltime. DNC also doesn't have to waste time healing at all this way, so can focus more on steps and damage. SCH stays ready to backup cure if WHM is in global cooldown. Embrava of course doubles as a source of haste that can’t be dispelled, which cuts out some of the annoying randomness.
I actually really like that RUN idea though!
Regen and Embrava took a lot of pressure off the WHM, which gave enough wiggle room to keep a cureskin (to prevent one-shot KO) on the DDs pretty close to fulltime. DNC also doesn't have to waste time healing at all this way, so can focus more on steps and damage. SCH stays ready to backup cure if WHM is in global cooldown. Embrava of course doubles as a source of haste that can’t be dispelled, which cuts out some of the annoying randomness.
I actually really like that RUN idea though!
My groups always just DD'd on the bee itself.
Done it with DNC WAR BRD COR GEO WHM and RDM WAR BRD COR GEO WHM. DNC and RDM helped WHM with just healing through all the damage, both setups were pretty easy fights. RDM was able to kind of facilitate the add between Sleep, Bind, Para II, etc... DNC makes the fight go much quicker w/ 2hr stacked Rudra's spam. Dia III and Steps both help the WAR push dmg through the roof.
Bee felt pretty harmless with Wind Carol II, Baraera, Scherzo and Indi-Fend/Attunement entrusting the other one on a DD. Think we used a Minne as well with the DNC but can't remember. Our BRDs all had R15 Twash and putting out respectable Rudra's as well.
I think bee was definitely one of the easier fights in T3. Heck we killed it for a friend and I was a dumbdumb and forgot to pull Moonbow Whistle +1 out of storage and still killed it w/ ~6 min remaining w/ super gimped songs. I think this was with a RDM as well so only COR WAR BRD for damage.
Done it with DNC WAR BRD COR GEO WHM and RDM WAR BRD COR GEO WHM. DNC and RDM helped WHM with just healing through all the damage, both setups were pretty easy fights. RDM was able to kind of facilitate the add between Sleep, Bind, Para II, etc... DNC makes the fight go much quicker w/ 2hr stacked Rudra's spam. Dia III and Steps both help the WAR push dmg through the roof.
Bee felt pretty harmless with Wind Carol II, Baraera, Scherzo and Indi-Fend/Attunement entrusting the other one on a DD. Think we used a Minne as well with the DNC but can't remember. Our BRDs all had R15 Twash and putting out respectable Rudra's as well.
I think bee was definitely one of the easier fights in T3. Heck we killed it for a friend and I was a dumbdumb and forgot to pull Moonbow Whistle +1 out of storage and still killed it w/ ~6 min remaining w/ super gimped songs. I think this was with a RDM as well so only COR WAR BRD for damage.
Bismarck.Demetor said: »
Trying to wrap up V20s just in time for V25, maybe a dumb question but is there any "trick" to dealing with Denouement/Apotheosis on Xevioso?
The "trick" to Xevioso is really just adding a DNC to the setup and help with cures imo. Waltz is faster than cures and items. It's several times easier this way from my experience.
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Afania said: »
Bismarck.Demetor said: »
Trying to wrap up V20s just in time for V25, maybe a dumb question but is there any "trick" to dealing with Denouement/Apotheosis on Xevioso?
The "trick" to Xevioso is really just adding a DNC to the setup and help with cures imo. Waltz is faster than cures and items. It's several times easier this way from my experience.
*A DNC who knows they're not just a better-dressed THF*
[+]
Quote:
Rune's primary role is to shield the entire party with Valliance.
This was incredibly helpful, paired with self-Panacea for every Att/Magic Def/Stat down on DD, WHM went from chugging double Viles every round to having nothing to do.
Thanks all!
This was incredibly helpful, paired with self-Panacea for every Att/Magic Def/Stat down on DD, WHM went from chugging double Viles every round to having nothing to do.
Thanks all!
Glad our strategy worked for you. Xevioso is basically a magic cannon. He has no physical tp attacks, but his magic damage is extremely powerful. We tried the dancer rout too, but the issue is getting one shotted. You can add all the extra healing you want, but it doesn't do any good if his denounce takes someone from full hp to dead in a single strike. Cutting down the incoming damage by 45% was a sensible solution. Combined with panacea spam it's pretty effective.
Asura.Melliny said: »
Quote:
Rune's primary role is to shield the entire party with Valliance.
This was incredibly helpful, paired with self-Panacea for every Att/Magic Def/Stat down on DD, WHM went from chugging double Viles every round to having nothing to do.
Thanks all!
This was incredibly helpful, paired with self-Panacea for every Att/Magic Def/Stat down on DD, WHM went from chugging double Viles every round to having nothing to do.
Thanks all!
Glad our strategy worked for you. Xevioso is basically a magic cannon. He has no physical tp attacks, but his magic damage is extremely powerful. We tried the dancer rout too, but the issue is getting one shotted. You can add all the extra healing you want, but it doesn't do any good if his denounce takes someone from full hp to dead in a single strike. Cutting down the incoming damage by 45% was a sensible solution. Combined with panacea spam it's pretty effective.
You can go DNC RUN COR BRD GEO WHM. No idea why you think WAR is required or better DD than DNC in this setup. Lacking Hasso WAR is only at 68.75% haste. That is huge loss in DPS (to visualize it better it would be drop from 10k DPS to 6.8k DPS). WAR is only great in setup WITH DNC, when it can benefit from both Haste Samba and Box Step. Neither Warcry or Blood Rage or Berserk cant compete with DNC too. -23%def is way better than berserk and works for whole team and +16% critical hit rate all the time is also better than +20% crit hit rate for 68sec on 5 min cooldown. Mighty Strikes is nice, but it's also not better (at this haste level on WAR at least) than Climactic Flourish Rudra spam with Grand Pas.
Asura.Jyubeii said: »
in general defensive strats can be extremely effective and a lot easier on your group, we NA just gravitate towards the faster, riskier ones as a community.
Tp denial works well on it too though, so there is merit to "Defensive strats" idk many people(if any) in the NA community who risk mboze's wrath with a zerg :-D
Bismarck.Demetor said: »
Asura.Melliny said: »
Rune's primary role is to shield the entire party with Valliance.
This was incredibly helpful, paired with self-Panacea for every Att/Magic Def/Stat down on DD, WHM went from chugging double Viles every round to having nothing to do.
Thanks all!
Yes RUN makes the Bee fight a breeze. What we've done is have the WAR (usually me), responsible for "tanking" the bee, though it practice it'll rotate between the WAR, COR and BRD depending on hate resets. The RUN's job is to grab the add once it spawns and keep Valliance up on everyone. With Random Deal / Wild Card there should be enough for the entire fight, but in the effect people get super unlucky OFA can be used to fill in most of the gaps. Xevioso's Incisive moves can randomly do over 100% of the targets max HP, it's the reason we switched to using a RUN, because screw SE and their "be berry rucky" design. Can beat it with 6~7+ minutes remaining.
Fights like Xeivoso and Ngai are not DPS races, there is plenty of time to kill it. Instead they are endurance fights where the goal is to survive and not die, since dead DD's deal no damage. Once we realized that and adjusted our strats, wins become much faster and more predictable.
I was in a PUG recently and there was a suggestion to drop a Minuet for both Wind Carol I and II, in order to handle Xevioso's Apotheosis move. It ended up being a much cleaner run overall vs other runs where we used an extra Minuet instead. You're already going to have Dia2*, Box Step, Chaos Roll, and at least 1 Minuet or HM, so you can afford to drop the Minuet in favor of a more defensive song. I assume most groups use Madrigal and Scherzo as well, so you may not have room for any Minuets if you go double Carol anyways.
Our bard buffs are as follows
Min V
Wind Carol
Honor March
Victory March
Scherzo
Yes two marches, Droning will randomly dispel one buff so the WHM can toss Haste on them to keep the DPS up. Any group using Madrigal is going to fail more likely then not as Food + Honor March + sets you should be wearing is sufficient. If someone needs madrigal then they are under geared for this fight.
COR is Samurai and Chaos
GEO is Fury + either Barrier or Fend, the other gets entrusted. Barrier helps to prevent the add from hitting someone right before and incisive move, fend further reduces the Bee's and Fetters magic attacks.
WHM has baraero and just stands back tossing Curaga II / III's out with ballads and a minne just in case. The WHM really needs to learn "curaga first, ask questions later" as just like Ngai, single target heals is how people get killed due to GCD.
Whole fight lasts like 4 to 5 minutes unless someone is stupid, then it's 6 to 7. MOAR DEEPS is not needed, just not having people die to combo moves or status ailments. Of all the T3's, Xeviso is probably the easiest by far, followed by Kalunga.
Min V
Wind Carol
Honor March
Victory March
Scherzo
Yes two marches, Droning will randomly dispel one buff so the WHM can toss Haste on them to keep the DPS up. Any group using Madrigal is going to fail more likely then not as Food + Honor March + sets you should be wearing is sufficient. If someone needs madrigal then they are under geared for this fight.
COR is Samurai and Chaos
GEO is Fury + either Barrier or Fend, the other gets entrusted. Barrier helps to prevent the add from hitting someone right before and incisive move, fend further reduces the Bee's and Fetters magic attacks.
WHM has baraero and just stands back tossing Curaga II / III's out with ballads and a minne just in case. The WHM really needs to learn "curaga first, ask questions later" as just like Ngai, single target heals is how people get killed due to GCD.
Whole fight lasts like 4 to 5 minutes unless someone is stupid, then it's 6 to 7. MOAR DEEPS is not needed, just not having people die to combo moves or status ailments. Of all the T3's, Xeviso is probably the easiest by far, followed by Kalunga.
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Speaking of carol, does anyone have experience with using light carol 1 or 2 with bumba v20? I was considering trying that with scherzo because of dieing to fetters and denounce too often since the proc is random.
vanquished said: »
Speaking of carol, does anyone have experience with using light carol 1 or 2 with bumba v20? I was considering trying that with scherzo because of dieing to fetters and denounce too often since the proc is random.
Light carol might have you resist Denounce, though from my experience I've never seen it deal fractional damage. The fetters are all random elementals though.
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Light carol might have you resist Denounce, though from my experience I've never seen it deal fractional damage.
Could use Carol II and hope for the 0 damage proc. I wouldn't count on that happening to enough of your members to be able to continue fighting though.
Asura.Saevel said: »
Asura.Iamaman said: »
Isn't Denounce light based? I wonder if having a RUN come in and throw up Valiance before the fetter window would mitigate Denounce enough to keep everyone alive. It was bad enough at v20 though, 25 is gonna be rough.
We tried that before, you replace your second DD with a RUN, who does less damage, and all it does is buy you another 30s of fight time. Valiance will reduce Denounce to barely survivable numbers, but then the fetters exploding with random elements kill everyone once OFA wears. Ultimately it was better to replace the RUN with a real DD and just kill it before it kills us. Bumba is a really poorly designed fight.
It basically boils down to answering this multiple choice quiz.
Q: <Blank>
Answers
A: Multiple Simultaneous Weapon Skills
B: Multiple Critical Hits
C: Multi-step SC that maybe heal Bumbs for 99K
D: Multiple Magic Bursts off a SC that may heal Bumba for 99K
Fail to chose the correct answer to the hidden question and you fail the test.
Meh it's not that hard. Jp were tanking Bumba on RUN for 10+ minutes. You can check his element and just do safe skillchain. You could probably also just use something like IDK RUN + SCH + BLM + PLD + RDM + SMN and try to take it down as much as possible in 15 minutes with helix and nukes and BP, tanking adds on PLD and Bumba on RUN. Trying to proc. Then in second fight just zerg it down from whatever % its on. Its only super hard to proc when you have no tank and you are in middle of zerg.
Does the denounce window completely reset after the proc? Does it reset upon re-entry? I know aura stays up on re-entry if you didn't proc it and add becomes pretty easy to manage since its hate table is reset. Also don't the bosses re-use 2hr as well as soon as you engage them on a re-entry and they are <75%?
I honestly don't remember since it's been so long since I've played around with those ideas.
Would be a reasonable solution if so, otherwise people are just gonna play the 2hr/Proc lottery.
I honestly don't remember since it's been so long since I've played around with those ideas.
Would be a reasonable solution if so, otherwise people are just gonna play the 2hr/Proc lottery.
Serjero said: »
Does the denounce window completely reset after the proc? Does it reset upon re-entry? I know aura stays up on re-entry if you didn't proc it and add becomes pretty easy to manage since its hate table is reset. Also don't the bosses re-use 2hr as well as soon as you engage them on a re-entry and they are <75%?
The Fetter timer resets.
Assuming it's below 75%, then it starts with random 1hr again, popping random add again and I think aura is the same, but Im not sure.
You can watch it here.
YouTube Video Placeholder
They really need to make Ody V0 NMs cost 0 segments to those who already have the clear.
I might post on the official forums to request this.
I might post on the official forums to request this.
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They need some sort of catch up mechanism at least to v15.
Saving my segments with hope they do something.
Saving my segments with hope they do something.
Denounce works like a reverse Timbeeer (or a Dancing Fullers that doesn't scale quite as hard), where the more targets that get hit, the higher the damage it does, scaled to max HP.
Even if you're in a zerg group, if you see you're not going to kill it before aura, you could probably pull out everyone but the top 2 people on the hate list (and probably the healer because I think Denounce is 30 yalms) and be able to survive it, giving you time to try to proc. Dispel your luopon, too.
Honestly, I think the Raaz pet is more BS than the aura and Dsnounce is.
Even if you're in a zerg group, if you see you're not going to kill it before aura, you could probably pull out everyone but the top 2 people on the hate list (and probably the healer because I think Denounce is 30 yalms) and be able to survive it, giving you time to try to proc. Dispel your luopon, too.
Honestly, I think the Raaz pet is more BS than the aura and Dsnounce is.
Taint said: »
They need some sort of catch up mechanism at least to v15.
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